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Tank Build, Advices pls.Follow

#1 May 17 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I see a lot of ppl with one set for each thing, tp, eva, mdt, max hp, tank, hybrids, bathroom, etc... I'm more simple and with a few sets I'm fine but I'm always looking for the "perfect" build. I have clear what i want for my tp, evasion and mdt sets, but tank buil isn't clear at all. After think on it carefully, burn the ffxiah searcher and bother a lot of ppl ingame I think finally have the build but I'm pretty sure here will be someone that can give me any advices ^^

Main Dagger, Oneiros Knife, Qirmiz Tathlum
R. Bonnet+2, PCA, Brutal, Suppa
Alcide's +1, Ocelot, Demonry, Epona's
Cavaros, Twilight, Ocelot, Ballerines.

In other words, AGI+16, Evasion +26, Haste 24%, Enmity +11 plus a more than decent amount of Crit. Dmg. Increase. The idea is keep the hate with the damage (what else?) since we don't have any tool to generate hate beside damage. Some pieces are untouchables like twilight and ocelot but i'm not sure if PCA is better replaced for a evasion torque and the amount of Crit. Dmg. Increase of the Alcide's, maybe Loki's is better. Well, advices, arguins, dissapointments, agrees and blames are welcome.
#2 May 17 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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Really, these days my tank "set" is usually offhanding an agility Kila+2. You keep hate by dealing damage, you really don't need to augment yourself with enmity gear. Unless you're either A) blowing everyone else out of the water or B) being blown out of the water yourself, everyone will meleeing will cap hate on anything that stays alive for long, and at that point being the "tank" is more about who swings the most to constantly recap their hate.

That said, having a decent set that lets you still keep your damage decent while adding some survivability is not a terrible idea. Obviously a PDT set for Thief isn't exactly as useful as it is for other jobs, because we have our natural evasion to build off of, and not getting hit is always better than getting hit for a little less. Ocelot Trousers are an awesome piece for keeping decent offensive stats while providing a good chunk of evasion (and enmity, for what that's worth). HP can be another concern, so I usually replace my Rajas Ring with a Meridian Ring if I think it could be a factor.

I would definitely advise against gearing explicitly for enmity. It is pretty much always better to just hit something harder, or more often, than it is to get a VERY slight amount more per hit. Basically, enmity should be considered a nice bonus if it is on the gear you'd use anyway, not a a reason unto itself.
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#3 May 18 2011 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
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The only swaps I make to my TP set when tanking is subbing in Auric Dagger if the NM has perticularly **** TP moves. With a AF3+2 Feet Whm's Auspice and Rajas, that caps Subtle Blow. DPS still isn't bad either.
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#4 May 18 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks both.

The enmity is here as a side effect, never included ocelot pieces for it, legs obviously are here cause is the only piece with evasion + haste, pure win imo, and gloves are here cause if quit the haste on body to get evasion and a little increase in the damage the haste on gloves help to keep the haste decently near to the cap. Anyway after read your comments I'm thinking on replace the Qirmiz for the Raider's Boomerang and let's see how the demonrys work when I'm able to put my hands on one but maybe a blitz ring have your oportunity here.
#5 May 18 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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I am not a fan of cavaros mantle for anything really. I am seeing a retro trend returning in how a lot of people gear. Years ago people focused so much on acc/sushi builds that they neglected the value of atk. Now the focus has shifted to other stats (like crit damage/rate etc) and atk is forgotten again. Thf/Nin NEVER has enough atk. Ever. Not on anything you would ever even consider a 'tank' set for. Atheling will walk all over a cavaros mantle.

I am looking at your set and seeing a decent DD set with a couple oddball pieces thrown in. The subtleblow harness is giving up a lot for a little and forces you to tweak the rest of the set to keep haste up.

The trouble with a 'perfect' set is that most of the defensive and offensive traits that are most important get better the more you have. Haste gains exponentially. Adding evasion reduces damage exponentially. Subtle blow reduces mob TP rate exponentially. -phy/magic damage increases survivability exponentially. In short, adding a touch of these things has very little to no effect. Adding a LOT of one will have waaay more effect than adding a little to differeing stats.

Your set is a DD set with a 'touch' of other stats. The problem is those other stats are not very effeective in small numbers. You only really have about 25 evasion in that set that you would not normally have on. You could just put on raider boots and keep raider body for 5/5 bonus, about the same evasion, and 15 agi for subtle blow but gain all the DD stats on teh body for example. Put on a Rapidus offhand to close some of the haste gap, or even an Agi kila+2 for more evasion if its still not cutting it.

Things like subtle blow are better if your entire build is tweaked for it a little more. Agasaya's collar or torero torque are ideal for something like this. A subtle blow build can be had without even touching your TP haste. Neck/rings/back/Auric/sub nin will cap SB without touching any haste slots. Similarly, HP builds can be done that way too. balls to the wall eva sets do need to loose some haste, but with eva kilas/atmas/cruor buffs/Raider feet etc, you almost never NEED balls to the wall eva on anything anyway.

I prefer to tweak things in the accessories like above. I leave full swaps for 'OH **** evasion sets (and ichi), Magic casts (-ga), and -phy sets (TP moves etc).

But, 95% of the time, i just bust out my DD gear and let my natural evasion and shadows do the tanking and let my support deal with magic (shell/bar/carols) and focus myself on beating the bejesus out of the target in question.
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#6 May 18 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I used to solo a lot before I decided to get a pocket WHM and I used to put a lot of sets together for tanking/soloing.

In terms of actual "tanking" for abyssea groups, not much is needed. Offhand an evasion kila and go full DD gear, really. Can use two if fighting something really accurate, but I can't think of many you would need to.

The specific sets come into play to cover Thief weaknessess, but are becoming less and less relevant in abyssea with 3 atmas. I used these a lot when abyssea first came out but aside from the odd moment where MDT or my earth/fire resist sets are useful, its mostly just DD gear.

PDT set to swap for NMs that spam Phsical AOE moves. Specific element resist sets or -MDT sets for magic spammers.

HP builds for things that can easily one shot you with low HP.

A complete max evasion set for when you just gotta be at that cap when you have to cast Ichi naked, or just need to hold an NM to recover from a death.

A good Racc set is nice for landing bolts but paralyze arrows are a godsend if you don't have a paralyze in your group. Again this is probably more useful for soloing than tanking

I even made a full body enmity gear swap with raider's bonnet for collaborator/accomplice (still not sure what effect is has lol). I used to use it for trying to build hate quickly with shadows/mug/steal/JA's also. But again, in today's abyssea its more effective to just melee in DD gear for hate.

But eh, THF tanking in ayssea really isn't that hard. It was a little more difficult when it first came out, atmas have made it easy.
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#7 May 19 2011 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Understood. I already have a -MDT set, in fact is MDT and PDT cause is based on Twilight torque and dark rings (working on it atm) and ready in a macro to swap when I see a TP/-ga on the way and a full evasion set but it's only for solo purposes when can't avoid receive some damage (AoE) and evade al hits can make a difference between die or live. According with your advices I change the set so it looks like this:

Main weapon, Auric, Raider's Boomerang
Raider's Bonnet, Agasaya, Brutal, Suppa
Raider's Vest, Raider's Armlets, Rajas, Eponas
Atheling, Twilight, Raider's Culottes, Raider's Poulaines

This way I sacrifice the crit. dmg. bonus from cavaros/qirmiz/oneiros/alcide's and evasion from alcide's/ocelot but I think this way the Subtle Bow, haste and attack receibe better bonuses, 23% haste, Dunno how much SB but I guess i near or caped, and 44 atk. I'm tinking now in the demonrys to put the atk on 51 and the increase triple attack damage seems hot also.
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