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rudras storm modsFollow

#1 Mar 03 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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there was a post on FFAH talking about a rudras storm WS set
im really pushing for a perfect WS set but im not a math person
whould shadow belt and elemental gorget really be better than the starndard options?

right now i use cuchulain's belt and kubira bead necklace ( no love torque yet , would LT be an option? )

btw jupiter's pearl does not exist lol only ever seen 1 on the whole server and the guy aint selling it
#2 Mar 07 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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seen this post for a while now, and no reply, so i'll just say my input and maybe that'll cause other's to correct me lol.

as far as a ws set, i'm getting close to a twashtar myself, already have stage 1, working on stage 3 atm cause stage 2 is over camped.

this is what i plan to use

Head: Aias bonnet
body: Loki's kaftan
hands: Raider's armlets +2
legs: Matre Bragezenn
feet: Lithe Boots
neck: Shadow Gorget
belt: Shadow belt
back: Nifty Mantle
earring: Thunder earring
earring: Thunder earring
ring: Thundersoul ring
ring: Rajas ring

ammo: Raider's boomerang
sub: Triplus dagger

i might change out rajas for another thundersoul ring, but i'll have to wait to get the ws. From reading other people's posts loading on attack gear and using stawart tonic doesn't seem to have a big impact on the damage. If this changes i might throw in my atheling mantle instead of the nifty, but for now DEX seems to have the most impact on it. and when i go for stage 2 i'll work on getting aias bonnet. if anyone has any improvements, i'd like to know as well.

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#3 Mar 21 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Head: Aias bonnet
body: Loki's kaftan
hands: Raider's armlets +2
legs: Matre Bragezenn
feet: Lithe Boots
neck: Shadow Gorget
belt: Shadow belt
back: Nifty Mantle
earring: Thunder earring
earring: Thunder earring
ring: Thundersoul ring
ring: Rajas ring

ammo: Raider's boomerang
sub: Triplus dagger


Only major changes I would make is Legs to Heca+1 and change out shadow gorget/belt for love torque/Cuchulains (and obviously minor +1s like 3dex pixie earring/pearl earrings). 3.25 mod at 100tp means those +0.1 off the shadow pieces are only about 3% boost each. But that is ONLY to teh WS part and adds 0 damage to the SA or TA aspect (and you SHOULD always stack it anyway), not to mention the added atk on both love torque/cuch belt.

I just double checked on my homemade damage excel sheet using a rather weak hypothetical abyssea mob (exp type estimate). Even with the obscene dex values you get in abyssea (free dex makes shadow pieces scale better than adding more dex), gorget lost to love torque on SA+Rudra by a TINY TINY hair (like 1 point of damage). Few things to consider:

*Outside abyssea dex is way lower so adding dex is even stronger
*This was a low def mob. Higher level mobs will see even higher returns from teh atk on torque/cuch belt
*This ignored any DA/TA procs (FTP only effects the 1st hit. Dex mods/atk affects ALL hits)
*I only just checked torque. Belt has +1 dex and +3 more atk so it would fair even better.
*This is at 100% TP. The more overflow TP you have (or saving for aftermath) forces FTP WAAAY up making those shadow +ftp items get even worse compared to dex. More TP=more power from dex and less from +ftp.

Nify mantle does win for SA+Rudra, but iirc it worked out that atheling wins for TA+Rudras. Im a little lazy so I just use atheling for everything. Its really minor and saves me the trouble and who doesnt like more pretty DA procs :P

TLDR: the shadow items under ideal conditions can MATCH the dex/atk for SAWS and edge it out on TAWS on low def targets. In less than ideal conditions (read: in game) Dex/atk pulls away from shadows on SAWS and is a wash on TAWS. torque/belt are going to generally outperform shadow gear in-game.

If you have a love torque or cuchulains i would reccommend sticking with those. If you dont, the shadow stuff is perfectly fine, but if your looking for ideal all-around gear, id shy away from the shadows. If you are going nuts to get 'perfect' gear, you will probably need 4 sets based on mobs and stacking. SA+WS high def+low def sets and TAWS high def+low def sets. But that is just way to much effort for me to gain 5-10 more damage on a 3-4k WS.

Edited, Mar 21st 2011 5:16pm by Banalaty
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Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
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Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
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Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

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#4 Mar 23 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
15 posts
I'm eager to get back to Glavoid killin' once the servers are back up. (32 more shells to go, and then I can clear out the 44 scales from my inventory!) Just a few questions on my Rudra's gear set in the works...

Rings: I was planning on Thundersoul/Epona. Ditch Epona's for another Thundersoul or an augmented Jupiter's?

Earrings: I currently only have Dex+2 earrings (Delta and Hollow). I'm working on leveling my Synergy to eventually shoot for Jupiter's Pearls. In the meantime, will Brutal win out over a Dex+2 earring?

Ranged: Maybe this is wrong of me, but I usually use Qirmiz Tathlum over Raider's Boomerang inside Abyssea. (Outside Abyssea I use Raider's.) Since swapping my ammo is thus an option, should I WS in Qirmiz, Thunder Sachet, Black Tathlum, Bomb Core, Thew Bomblet or some other option I haven't considered? Or, should I be ditching my Qirmiz for my Raider's?
#5 Mar 23 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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1,293 posts
If it is a possibility, an augmented Anwig salade probably beats Aias bonnet while inside abyssea with +STR/DEX. If you have it with +DEX/AGI, the +2% crit damage and +2% weaponskill damage should beat Aias by a wider margin. I currently WS with about 245 DEX inside abyssea, so my base damage would be about 177*3.25 + 245 = 820 (I am assuming 12 fSTR) making the assumption that @ hasn't changed to 90, which I am not so sure about. For the sake of the calculation, assuming a 1.000 cRatio, which is probably low, and only RR + JT + Anwige for increased crit dmg Anwige Salade should give you an average damage of 2341 on the first hit.

For Aias, the STR probably isn't doing anything inside of abyssea due to furtherance and stuff, but lets assume you are getting an extra 2 fSTR. Base Damage for Aias is 180*3.25+249 = 834. Giving you an average damage of 2301 for the first hit of Rudra's.

Just for this hypothetical situation Anwig beats Aias by about 1.7% on the first hit, additional hits with Anwig have a base damage of 180 due to the +2% WS damage mod, which is exactly the base damage for additional hits with Aias too.

Quote:
Ranged: Maybe this is wrong of me, but I usually use Qirmiz Tathlum over Raider's Boomerang inside Abyssea. (Outside Abyssea I use Raider's.) Since swapping my ammo is thus an option, should I WS in Qirmiz, Thunder Sachet, Black Tathlum, Bomb Core, Thew Bomblet or some other option I haven't considered? Or, should I be ditching my Qirmiz for my Raider's?


You are not wrong because crit damage does help for both TP and WS, however, 3% DW is a significant boost for melee DoT, it is probably worth losing the 5% crit damage but you could go either way. Also, if you are using other crit damage + gear, you should be pretty close to the cap on crit damage plus. I currently WS in Anwig w/ +2% crit damage, Loki's +5%, with my JT 8% and RR that puts me right at +45% crit damage +. Qirmiz would put me right at Cap. Its a pretty tough call.

Edit: massively overstated WS damage for additional hits, fixed.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2011 11:59am by Meldi

Edited, Mar 23rd 2011 12:02pm by Meldi
#6 Mar 23 2011 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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2,270 posts
I never looked into it, but is the WS damage augment just a straight 2% of the total WS damage number that includes SATA? or is it JUST the WS damage portion? (Think similarly to how boosting FTP only enhances the 'WS' part of SATAWS and does not augment the dex/agi damage for SATA at all). I guess what i mean is, are SA and TA considered 'WS' damage or not when you stack in the calculation? This would heavily impact the 2% mod vs dex/str comparison if it only enhances the actual WS aspect but not 2% of the SATA damage (which the dex/agi would).

If the WS damage ignores teh SATA aspect, it would end up being:
(177*3.25)=575
+2% Aug= 575*1.02=586

THEN add the SA 245:
586+245=831

Crit damage (+1 cratio and 40% Crit damage boost):
831*2.0=1662
1662*1.4=2326

This is compared to 2341 so:
Anwig:2326 (WS 2% doesnt work on SATA)
Anwig:2341 (WS 2% DOES work on SATA)
Aias: 2301 (giving +2 fstr)

But, once you toss in the 4 atk (i know lol4atk), you get ~+.01 pdif atk boost once you toss in level correction. It is REALLY minor, but with that, aias bonnet comes out to:
Aias+atk=2313

Apply that smidge of atk to the additional hits (the numbers above are JUST the 1st hit) and it will actually have a slight edge on the additional hits making this a complete wash imo. Outside abyssea, I would bet it all on aias since dex will be so much lower as well as atk and fstr.

I actually have no idea which way the 2% WS damage thing works. It doesnt really matter here since it would win anyway, but these are all REALLY close. I cant emphasize that enough. If the 2% ignores SATA, were talking about ~10 damage on a 2300+WS (this is only the 1st hit(in game it is generally much higher.
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All that said, this is REALLY REALLY tiny amounts of damage to quibble over. I would just lump it all in and say sidegrade in abyssea with a TINY TINY edge to aias outside. You would have to parse thousands of WS before you could even have a statistically significant number for either hat. If something is that small, I wont loose any sleep over it.

This also brings up my philosophy on augmented gear. Even if the 2% works on the whole thing (SATA) and has a little edge over aias, i wouldnt make it. The difference will never be notable at all. If there is ANYTHING else you can make it for (another job, or a better niche use) then do that instead. 5-10 damage on a 3-5k WS is not ever going to be as useful as a niche piece that has some unique effect. I would make it evasion 10+fast cast for utsu casts before I made it into a rudras piece to add 0.3% or whatever to my WS damage over Aias for example.

Once we get to the point that we are gearing to squeak out single digit points of damage, I stop worrying about it honestly. If it is at the expense of something else (exclusive augmented gear) i just wont do it for damage.
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Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#7 Mar 23 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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1,293 posts
You make a really good point, and I didn't even think about the mechanics in terms of what +2% WS damage means. If that is the case, then yeah Anwig would definitely be a sidegrade inside abyssea too for WS. I just figured +2% WS damage functioned like +2% crit damage, which applies after the actual damage calculation.

I don't know about your final point though, I know it isn't about the epeen, but I have spent my career in game trying to min/max my thief to the best of my ability because of the anti-THF DD stigma that has been prevalent. So when my calculations come up with a "This piece gives 0.2% more damage than that piece in X setup," I have always tried to get it if it was realistic for me to do so. I know you aren't implying this, but I wasn't trying to say that Anwig is the only way to go, but I was just throwing it out there as an alternative to Aias. Partially because I think a lot of people look at Aias and see 8 STR/8 DEX and automatically assume it is the best piece for thief.
#8 Mar 23 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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2,270 posts
True enough. I just try to avoid the X>Y statements when the difference is exceptionally minuscule AND it comes at the expense of something else (exclusive augment items in this case that could have some non-DD use of greater benefit than 10 damage on a 4k WS). I think a lot of people see X>Y and then rush out to get it without realizing what they might be sacrificing for an imperceptible gain. This is not aimed at the 'regulars' so much as the silent lurkers out there :P

Its like the difference between a 6dex and 7dex ring. Sure it may be better, but unless you have NOTHING else to buy with that 1 million gil, I would hold off and get that 'something else' 1st, even if its for another job or a niche use. Chances are there is something you could get with 1mil that would enhance your char more than +1 dex unless you are really at the leet end of leet already. Thus, i would never really reccommend a 7dex ring to anyone unless they are sitting on millions with nothing to do with it. Same logic Im putting on aias vs anwig. Its not worth the trouble UNLESS you are really at that point of character development (which a lot of regulars here are probably at or quickly approaching).

I just always verbalize this view when talking about minor upgrades to keep things in perspective so that (hopefully) people reading will be able to prioritize better instead of going all out because someone said X>Y for a 0.5% boost and skipping something else much more important with their resources if that makes any sense.
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
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