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#1 Feb 03 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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So... I just got a Love Torque from the Rank 4 Prize... People still full time this on THF? I'm returning from a break and trying to get myself caught up on all the latest gear from 80-90 on THF, and not sure if i missed a good replacement for this torque.
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#2 Feb 03 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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I just got a Love Torque... People still full time this on THF?


I do. It's my accessory of choice to tp and weaponskill in, although I use Arctier's Torque for trick attack/ranged accuracy. I can cap my haste now without tiercel's necklace so I personally don't like that piece very much anymore (maybe that just me), but I fulltime my Love Torque. There is only one situation where I would use something else, and that's with Rudra's Storm. Trick attack + Rudras Storm gets a bigger boost from soil gorget then it does from love Torque, but I'm having a difficult time comparing the torque and the gorget together with a sneak attack rudra's. There's just a lot of stuff to consider with that one, but it's really close no matter what I do. Nevertheless I still love my torque, and I haven't found anything I'd prefer over it yet.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 10:44pm by Melphina
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#3 Feb 03 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Default
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Agasaya's Collar for TP (will need blue most likely as the drop rate is awful without it) if you need acc/attack, and gives some subtle blow.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 2:33pm by Neisan
#4 Feb 03 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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Agasaya's Collar for TP


The difference between the collar and love torque is 1 more attack (collar) versus 1 more point of accuracy (torque), and if for whatever reason your melee crit rate isn't capped torque mods that with 5 more dex. With no dex to mod weaponskills or sneak attack it's a marginal upgrade. The love torque is so well suited to a thief that if the op chose to he could effectively fulltime the love torque without any consequence. Of course Arctier's Torque is still better to use with trick attack and ranged accuracy, but that one is a given.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:04pm by Melphina
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#5 Feb 03 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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5 Subtle Blow on the collar too!
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#6 Feb 03 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I prefer Agasaya's over LT for TP. My acc is capped on almost any mob with Agas so 1 attack and 5 subtle blow win. Things may change in the coming months when acc and especially dex become more relevant for TP again.

Now if you need the acc LT would be better again. I am just rarely in that situation. Even then its likely to be a NM I am tanking in which the subtle blow might win again.
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#7 Feb 03 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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5 Subtle Blow on the collar too!


In the last update s-e changed agility to == major mob tp reduction and our natural agility coupled with /nin 45 SB III is insane. 5 Subtle blow is better than none, but it's not a game breaking change. There are a lot of other changes I'd like to make to my gear sets which would have a bigger impact then that, and I'd worry about them before I would the 5 subtle blow in my tp set.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:08pm by Melphina
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#8 Feb 03 2011 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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I got Agasaya's Collar solely to cap subtle blow, which in my opinion is worth it mainly for low man situations.

The torque actually only has a 50% chance of granting you 1 more acc than the collar. (from the 5 DEX)
For most THF's (who care about thf) we will have our 8 merits.

at level 90 our capped dagger skill sits @ 370 giving us FLOOR(((370-200) *.9) + 200) = 353 acc
adding the 7 skill from torque and the acc becomes FLOOR(((377-200) *.9) + 200) = 359 acc (a gain of 6)

if we continue the current skill progression trend, our skill caps @ 95 and 99 will end up being 400 and 425 respectively, both of these still end up with a net gain from 7 skill of just 6 acc.

If I had the torque I would use it, sure, but for lowman or solo situations the collar really shines for the TP phase.

For WS, Sneak Attack, obviosuly, the torque wins. But saying this piece has no place in a thf build is ignoring the potential of the piece.
#9 Feb 03 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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By the way, since nobody has mentioned this yet; congratulations on your shiny new Love Torque CooperWBC. I still remember when I got mine. Regardless of your choice on collar it's a **** good piece to have, and the best weaponskill and sneak attack neck we can equip to this day.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:08pm by Melphina
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#10 Feb 03 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Melphina wrote:
If you have the love torque then the collar has no place in any thief builds.


Melphina, you know a good bit about THF but I'm gonna say you have it wrong here; "no place" is kinda silly. You know how we THFs will even tote a +steal set from time to time, if we waste our time on that then 1att and 5 SB is definitely worth picking up. lol

The collar beats love torque anytime you have cruor buffs and RR basically in abyssea. Outside abyssea love torque wins, inside it wins until you get better atma. But for as long as abyssea reigns the end-be-all of endgame, that collar is slightly better than love torque for TP. WS well... We're all agreed on love torque whipping **** on that.


I would however say I completely agree with Melphina that if you have a Love Torque the collar should be nowhere near the top of your "Do want" list. 5 SB and 1 att is an improvement in most situations TP wise we find ourselves in now, but there is WAY more you should be focusing on. Twilight belts, TotM daggers, loki's kaftan, AF3+2, etc.

EDIT: Also, grats on your love torque, it's an EXTREMELY good piece with multiple functions.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 9:35pm by ElvaanTHF
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#11 Feb 03 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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Melphina, you know a good bit about THF but I'm gonna say you have it wrong here; "no place" is kinda silly. You know how we THFs will even tote a +steal set from time to time, if we waste our time on that then 1att and 5 SB is definitely worth picking up. lol


I have to laugh because it's true. Saying that the collar has "no place" in a thief's gear sets was a poor choice of words and I edited that out. I remember carrying around my own + steal stuff for a while so I'd be lying if I said I haven't done things like this myself. It's just that mob's tp gain is contingent on so many things and many of them are beyond our control, such as party members hitting the mob and most (a whole LOT of) NM's have regain. If the mob has regain it's going to spam tp no matter what you do, and if you throw more melees on it it's gonna get spammy as well. I like the agyssea collar and I've recommended the collar to a lot of people who don't have torque because it's really good. But the Love Torque is just extraordinarily suited to a thief, and if you have one then the collar doesn't give much in comparison to other upgrades you could probably make.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:10pm by Melphina
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#12 Feb 03 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Default
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So, Melphina says in abyssea subtle blow is moot, yet emphasizes on the accuracy in another post, but also says it's only got 1 attack more.

atk+8 > atk+7 even a child can see this.

Inventory space has no place in deciding what's better. No one has the exact same inventory issues as the next person. I believe Shamaya has said, stop leveling so many jobs and concentrate on one at this stage in the game.

Although I do agree with Melphina, I do not agree with the method of imposing that 'my way or the highway' attitude.

I have a Love Torque and have no use for an Agasaya's Collar for my THF and never will, although I acknowledge that it has (limited) uses. As far as I can tell, both are superb TP pieces.

Don't confuse my attitude with someone who would say "Using a Star Necklace for TP is fine! Play this game however you want!"

The difference between LT and AC are minimal at best. Choose whatever has the cooler picture for all I care, neither choice makes you look like less of a THF than the next guy.

With that said, this topic is on LT and what alternatives there are. LT and AC are the top two, pretty much. Since you have a LT for playing with the Mog Banana- I mean Mog Bonanza. You're set for neck pieces! Congrats.
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#13 Feb 03 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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Although I do agree with Melphina, I do not agree with the method of imposing that 'my way or the highway' attitude.


I went back and edited my posts to remove the abrasiveness; it wasn't intended to be so rough around the edges and I apologize for that. The point I wanted to make is that the difference between the love torque and collar is very small, and that if the OP so chose he could full time the Love Torque with very little consequence. Now that he won the torque from the mog bonanza he has a versatile thief neck which is very good in almost every situation. If he doesn't have the agassyea's collar and would rather peruse other achievements he wouldn't be missing out on too much, and full timing it is perfectly acceptable.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:02pm by Melphina
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#14 Feb 04 2011 at 3:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I got Agasaya's Collar solely to cap subtle blow, which in my opinion is worth it mainly for low man situations.
Not sure I agree with this. In lowman situations on thief, I'm gonna be the only melee on the mob anyway, and with just one melee, TP feeding really is not a problem at all after the update. Sure, you do reduce the mob's TP gain, and maybe you'll get hit with one less TP move, but that wont change anything in the fight other than the whm will need to Cure5 or -na you one more time, and with the near-limitless MP they have, that's no trouble at all.
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#15 Feb 04 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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I think too Aga > Torque for TP but I still TP with my Torque.
Being rewarded by the first Love Torque drop on first Jailer of Love of my last (and only) HNMLS means more to me that 1 atk and 5 Subtle Blow. Also it's far from being mandatory on most things in most situation.

But Aga is very nice for my other jobs ;)

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Further note :
> Auric (+10) + Rajas (+5) + Heed Ring (+7) + Dragon Harness (+10) + /NIN (+15) = +47 Subtle Blow.
That's only 3 from cap and I'm fine with it ;)

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 2:15pm by Neraya
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#16 Feb 04 2011 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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But who wants to TP in auric or DH? I do like ringx2+neck, lets me keep all my haste.
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#17 Feb 05 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Decent
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LordTrey wrote:
But who wants to TP in auric or DH? I do like ringx2+neck, lets me keep all my haste.
I hapilly TP in Auric.
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