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Aeolian Edge, Destiny abyssites, MAB atma, and Zone bosses.Follow

#1 Jan 10 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey guys, I just wanted to share some thoughts with you about aeolian edge and I also have a question to ask. I'm going to break this down by section with heading for easier reading since I crammed a lot of thoughts into one post.

Abyssites of Destiny.

First off, while it goes without saying, aeolian edge raises amber light FAST when you have all three abyssites of destiny (viridian abyssite of destiny comes from abyss-tahrongi, crimson of Destiny drops from Iktomi, and you get ivory of destiny by defeating all 9 abyssea zone bosses). Since obtaining my final abyssite of destiny I've been able to raise amber light at quadruple the normal speed and I can start seeing giant gold pyxides pop after just one ephemeral. I have all three "fortune" abyssites as well so I can also raise my pearl light at quadruple speed.

Zone Bosses
With that said, I've been playing with giant gold pyxides the past week and I discovered that the giant boxes in abyssea-ulu range drop the Decaying Diremite Fang and Begrimmed Dragon Hide key items which are used to spawn the diremite zone boss as well as Isgebind. I was running with a group of 5 on Monday and we farmed my 6 wieldance items for raider's armlets +2 and three other peoples +2 hands in under 2 hours and we all got an Isgebind pop item. I got to play around with Aeolian edge yesterday for half an hour in abyssea - altep and we got the Tiger King's Hide from a small gold box. I never saw what key items the giant gold boxes had because we exited soon after I capped lights, but I believe there is a very strong chance the Giant gold pyxides of Abyss-Altepa drop the Steaming Cerberus Tongue as well which is used to spawn Orthus. Wiki has documented the ulu range key item drops, but nothing has been documented on altepa yet. Wiki updates slow though so I'm trying to get some confirmation of this.

As it is, you can farm a full Glavoid Pop set from tahrongi gold boxes, and 2/3 Itza pop items are also gold pyxidable while Tunga CAN be soloed with lotsa temp items (and easily duo and triod with them). Orthrus only needs ONE key item to spawn, and if it drops directly from gold pyxides that would have huge implications on do-it-yourself Twashtar (I killed Ortrus with just 4 people being monk (had Victory Smite from WoE), thf (me), blm and cor.... He's honestly not that hard).

Farming Implications
Aside from the various key items we can get from gold boxes there is a lot of gil to be had by farming these. This goes without saying but the Tiger King's Hide currently sells on my server for 150k on auction, and dark rings in konstant NPC for 35k as well as the 7k items we often see (gules mittens, radiant lances, the new knuckles and guns in Heroe's zones).

Mab Atmas!!
And finally, Aeolian Edge's can do impressive damage. This idea is taken from the fact that brewed magic weaponskills do much more than physical ones (My aeolian edge broke 23k when I brewed shinryu!!!). I have two MAB atmas right now. Atma of the Beyond as well as Atma of the Baying Moon. I never defeated proto-ultima but atma of the Ultimate increases MaB by 50, magic accuracy by 50, and drops max mp pool by 25% (which may deter some mages, but has no impact on thf whatsoever). I carry my moldavite earring for aeolian edge and with just two MAB atmas my damage has shot up from ~~~ 500 with no MAB atma/gear to over 1300 damage with + 65 MAB. I bet if I had atma of the ultimate I could break 2K aeolian edges. And we all know how devastatingly powerful a Fell Cleave burn can be right!! Well picture an Aeolian Edge burn. I used aeolian edge on winds day (hence a few getting 10% bonus damage) with baying moon + beyond + moldavite and broke 1k everywhere and immediately after that the giant gold boxes spawned like mad. Imagine if I had the ultimate and a pair of MaB kilas or some MAB mage buffs (like shiva's favor or diabolos's dream shroud ... or scholar wind storm.. or w/e).

Now that the level cap has been broken and the boundaries pushed continually again I have found myself once more specializing in thief (playing summoner and now black mage on the side!!) and focusing my thoughts towards what it can do. I am working on a pair of physical defense earth kila's, a pair of magic defense water kilas, and now a pair of magic attack intelligence kilas on the side (very SLOWLY on these to maintain sanity). But aeolian edge can do a lot, and I'd like to see what others results are should they follow suit with this.

Oh yeah, a final PS: If someone could check and see if Orthrus's pop item does drop from abyssea-altepa I'd love you for it. I'm sitting on 5/50 glav shells, 26/50 itza scales, and 6/75 orthrus's claws and I would LOVE to skip baby cerb and head directly to Orthrus like I did with the diremire boss in ulu range. I work soon and I won't be able to verify this for myself for a while, so confirmation would be much appreciated.

Edited, Jan 10th 2011 12:51pm by Melphina
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#2 Jan 10 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I see most of what you're saying but I have a few questions:

1) I've got all 3 destiny abyssites, but only 2 of the fortune abyssites. Anyway, when you say "quadruple speed" is that really what they do? Like instead of getting 1 amber light from aoliean edging a normal mob you get 4 with the abyssites?

2) I've heard that ephemerals give bonuses to all lights but really the only way I've for sure seen it work is with azure. It doesn't seem pearl and amber get bonuses. Any tests you know about with this?

Onto the reason of the post :) So the utility here would be a half dozen THFs, get MAB atma, cap amber/pearl (maybe azure), go to mobs that can't drop ruby and then spam aeolian edge on groups of mobs brought by pullers while people try to keep you alive to farm boxes?
#3 Jan 10 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking about this myself back in September.

We could definately put together a solid set for it, and with the regain of brew probably /mage it up for even more MAB.
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#4 Jan 10 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had forgotten about the atma of gales. I think the ideal aeolian edge MAB/M ACC atma set is this

Atma of Gales
Atma of the Ultimate
Atma of the Baying Moon (because it gives physical attack as well)

Quote:
1) I've got all 3 destiny abyssites, but only 2 of the fortune abyssites. Anyway, when you say "quadruple speed" is that really what they do? Like instead of getting 1 amber light from aoliean edging a normal mob you get 4 with the abyssites?


That's exactly what I'm saying. If you have one destiny abyssite your amber raises at double normal rates, two destiny abyssites will raise amber at triple speed, and three desting abyssites raise amber at quadruple speed. The same goes for fortune abyssites.

Quote:
2) I've heard that ephemerals give bonuses to all lights but really the only way I've for sure seen it work is with azure. It doesn't seem pearl and amber get bonuses. Any tests you know about with this?


The only way to actually prove that would be with a video and that would be a pain in the ass, but I speak from personal experience when I say I've ambered two ephemerals and gotten giant boxes (sometimes I can get a giant box after just one, but always after two). Whether you take me for my word or not is up to you, but I have no reason to lie about it.

Quote:

Onto the reason of the post :) So the utility here would be....


No, the utility reaches far beyond just a few circumstances. Aeolian edge can be used to AoE burn like fell cleave, to farm for gil drops solo, to farm your own artifact base items solo, to farm key items to spawn bosses either solo or with a group (the point is with 3 destiny abyssites you alone can cap everyone's amber in minutes be it 3-4 people or 18 people). Gold pyxides can drop a wide variety of useful things (powerful temporary items like megalixr/revitalizer and fools/fan poiwders or champ/stalwart gambir) money drops (like spears and gules mittens, or magic scrolls like break and stoneja) or rare ex items (artifact 3 feet) and even key items to spawn bosses (like glavoid and carbarossa and Bhukis). The AoE damage application works if you wanna AoE burn a exp party, and if you have 3 destiny a single ephemeral counts as 20 points of amber. My point is that abyssea is all about versatility, and aeolian edge is not as useless as we expected it to be when it was first released at the onset of Scars

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 12:06am by Melphina
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#5 Jan 10 2011 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Two of my ls members gave been doing this with great succes. The newly added atma really help Aeolian Edge a lot. They teamed up with a mnk upgrading Verethragna. He needs Two-leaf Chloris Buds and they need glavoid shells. They go out and first get lights up then swap to MAB atma's and AoE burn mandies in Abyssea - Tahrongi. The mnk uses Cataclysm, staff AoE ws. The thf uses Aeolian Edge. 3rd person is sch or rdm for AoE Phalanx.
The rest of the ls comes out to help and pop chests and leech exp. After almost everyone has a full pop set members swap to proper jobs and kill Glavoid and Chloris.

It still takes a lot of time but Twashstar is a realistic goal now for a lot more players.
#6 Jan 11 2011 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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For anyone wondering about maximum damage, I tested the WS with:

THF/BLM (no difference than /RDM but I don't have it)
300% TP Aeolian Edge
Atma of Gales, Ultimate, Baying Moon
Ascetic's Tonic
Relevant MAB Gear: Novio, Moldavite, Uggalepih, Aquiline Belt, Denali Kecks

The rest are high DEX gear. I managed to get 2252 damage to a murrain chigoe. I'm missing some stuff like PW atma, fusetto WS+10%, MAB kila, and assortment of gears. I can see it pushing to 3k damage maximum at 300%. At 100% it should deal about 68.75% of the 300% TP damage, which is just over 2k damage.
#7 Jan 11 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok, so I went to play around with this a bit the other night (on BST instead of THF, but only because I wanted WS to find ephemerals more quickly.

Essentially I was going for pearl and for amber only (didn't have longer than 2 hours of RL time anyway so azure would have been worthles). I can confirm that somewhere between 6 and 8 amber I was only receiving large boxes. For certain after 6 (counting in party chat) I still received 2 small boxes. After 8 I no longer saw any small boxes.

As for pearl, even after 7 ephemeral kills, 1 "strong" pearl light from a red box and 2 from NQ mobs I was not capped on pearl. I continued to kill mobs after this and eventually capped pearl.

For both of these I had a fairly mixed set up of clionids and limules.

I've had this happen before too where after 8 murex kills worth of pearl I still was not at capped pearl.

I've heard stories before that, based on the xp/cruor received from kills of an ephemeral, you can guesstimate the amount of light gained. Anyone seen this somewhere?

My best GUESS here is that you are correct that lights cap at higher rates with each abyssite (this is consistent with my experience on persipacity abyssite and xp), and that ephemerals:

-provide bonuses to lights, but only if they are EM or higher (tough to find EM+ ephemerals at 90 in KH)
-specific ephemerals only provide bonuses to specific kinds of lights
-ephemeral bonuses to lights don't stack with abyssite bonuses

...or maybe it's just that abyssite bonuses only provide a +X (where x is the number of abyssites) to that kind of light upon obtaining visitant. I'm skeptical that this could be the case, however, given admittedly anecdotal experiences.
#8 Jan 11 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Ignoring using 300 tp, for AE burning (which i have done with mnks, wars or just thfs) wouldn't using the laughable martial knife be our best bet? At 300 tp WS damn +10 wins for sure, but does the tp or 10% damage add more to AE at 100ish tp?

Secondly, has anyone ever noticed that AE seems to give more enmity than its damage should? I first noticed when AE came out and would pull hate on groups in Campaign battles rather easily (which rocked for taking damage). But when aoe burning with other DDs or even BLMs I have noticed I seem to get hate when I am sure someone else should. Seems almost like you get the enmity of double the damage of AE.

Could all be in my head though. Anyone have a similar experience?
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#9 Jan 11 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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You're right, if you are using the WS at 100-200% it should win.
#10 Jan 12 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well today I got a chance to go play in abyssea-altep before emergency maintenance and caped my amber and pearl. Last night my linkshell hit that zone but they capped ruby within minutes which drastically cut down gold boxes (we werent farming boxes tbh though). I'm a little disappointed because I don't think the steaming cerberus's tongue is in the gold boxes, but I'm still holding onto a shred of hope that I may have just gotten very unlucky with the random. I did however have to throw away about 5-6 each of these because I was solo and could only hold one. It's no orthus's claw, but I guess it's something.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:05pm by Melphina
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#11 Jan 16 2011 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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I'd think Smiting Blow would actually be a good atma for Aeolian Edge if you don't have the high MAB atmas (I'm wondering if it might actually beat Beyond).
#12 Jan 23 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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nobody has posted any numbers, or maybe i have just missed them, but here are mine. i'll only post relevant items in a messy way. :)

elvaan with +30 stats from furtherance in tahrongi

martial knife
ugg pendant, hecates earring, moldavite earring
weald gloves, int ring +5 x2

atmas of the beyond, gales, ultimate: 1420~ damage

smiting blow did less than beyond. i did not compare smiting blow and gales because it seemed silly to do so. all in all, if you have some mage accessories sitting around, you can aoe with a healer just fine. with a crappy eva set on NIN/DNC, i was able to take 6-7 mobs with just a RDM and cure 4 spam. with a whm, 10+ is no big deal.

#13 Feb 02 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Any advice on setting up a Gold Box farming session? Last weekend I tried Gold Box farming in Tahrongi with me (90THF), a 90MNK with his dualbox 90SCH, a 90BLU, and an embarrassing number of leeches. We capped Pearl and Azure on Mandies... then we realized we couldn't Amber them, so went to the baby Aspids. After Amber was capped the BLU changed to a leech job and we went back to Mandies. I'd gather the Mandies, and the MNK and I Cataclysm/Aeolian Edge'd bunches of them. We got a few key items, but it took so long to cap lights, we didn't box farm for super long.

So, next time I'll try to cap Pearl on T1 VNM and have a few of the leeches come BLU or BLM at the start to build Azure light. Is it worthwhile to have them hunt for Emphemerals for Azure? There are just so few in the Visions zones as compared to the Scars zones. Is there any mob better than the mini Aspids for capping Amber? I see the mini Fafnirs and the sandworms can also give Amber (and the Emphemerals). Having a few of our leeches come DD jobs at the start would help us take down the mini Aspids faster, at least. I was also thinking about doing bats once we get to that part of the Gold Box hunt. But, does bats inherent resistance to darkness make Cataclysm suck on them?
#14 Feb 03 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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have a leech sub ranger to find bhumi and cap amber on those, they consistently cap amber in about 4 kills, unlike ephemeral mobs in visions zones...

basically let the blu solo azure on some mob from the start, you and the monk can build pearl while ambering bhumi whenever they pop.

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#15 Feb 03 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Another way to raise amber lights in tahrongi is to buy a clear demuile abyssite and hunt down a T1 VNM. While aspids and fafs and worms are a pain in the ass, T1 VNMs are a pushover. Unfortunately I don't think they build lights very fast, but since it's T1 they're usually in plentiful supply. If you have destiny abyssites it goes a long way to speeding up the buildup, and I mean a LONG way. As for the other mobs, Bhumi and Ephemerals have already been covered. Widescan is a great asset in there because the ephemerals are so spread out and hunted down by other scanners and rarely last long.

If you're finding it takes a long time to cap amber in tahrongi I REALLY suggest you look into collecting as many abyssites of destiny as possible. It's had a profound effect on how fast I can cap amber light. Getting all three of those abyssites will enhance your gold box farming above anything else, and if you incorporate that with ephemerals you'll be shocked at how much easier it makes things.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:08am by Melphina
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#16 Feb 03 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I still seem to be having difference experiences with amber. I still seem to need about 20 amber lights to cap it, despite having all 3 destiny abyssites. Anyone else have this experience?
#17 Feb 03 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I still seem to be having difference experiences with amber. I still seem to need about 20 amber lights to cap it, despite having all 3 destiny abyssites. Anyone else have this experience?


I think it has something to do with tahrongi being a Visions area, and an inherent change between visions --> scars --> heroes. I have 3 abyssites of destiny and I need to kill about 15-18 Aspids to cap my amber light solo, and I can kill three or four Ephemeral Limules and STILL not cap amber. However if I'm farming abyssea Altepa after I Aeolian Edge an elemental I'm already getting tier 3/4 gold boxes, and after killing a second elemental I'm at giant boxes. If I manage to kill three elementals my amber ights is way capped, not that it matters because if I wanted I could amber about 9-12 scorpions for the same effect. Visions zones seem to take a lot longer to cap lights, and ephemerals don't seem as powerful in there as they do in Scars and Heroes zones. I don't think it has anything to do with your abyssites SKSmokes, just the zone you're using them in.

Try it yourself, I would like to see what results you get. Go to a heroes zone and spam aeolian edge kills and tell me how much faster you see giant gold boxes than you do in tahrongi. I have a feeling you'll see the same thing I do. For the record, I remember what building amber lights was like BEFORE I had all 3 destiny abyssites. When I was level 85 with only one destiny abyssite I took a oor and blm with me to help with turtles, and after 30++ kills later we still weren't capped (close.... but not quite capped). Now I can cap them in about half the time, so I do notice a BIG difference, its more that tahrongi sucks to raise amber and that's all there is to it.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 12:53pm by Melphina
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#18 Feb 03 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Ya, I'm starting to wonder if the real answer is that it has to do with the "con" of the mob that makes such a difference OR with how much XP it gives you (i.e. some seem to give huge XP even though it was EP and some give awful XP when it cons EP).

I can't find any good tests that have been done to determine a "formula" for capping the varying kind of lights in various zones and how the abyssites fit in exactly and it makes me sad.

#19 Feb 03 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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If the con of the mob had anything to do with it you could verify that. You would need to get two people with all three destiny abyssites each, one level 90 and one level 75-80. It's a simple enough process from then on. Round 1 you have the level 90 character get every killshot and see how many turtles it takes to cap amber, and round 2 you allow the level 75-80 character all the killshots and again check and see how many kills it takes. Since the destiny abyssites work the same way regardless you only need someone on a lower level job, and that can be brought up to par pretty fast. If you get a solid run on that then you'll have your answer of whether or not the level the mob "checks" to you has anything to do with light buildup. Just keep in mind "capped" lights are a rough estimate and you can sometimes get lucky. I've already gotten a time extension off the first mob I killed inside abyssea-grauberg with no lights at all, but there's always a trend and you can tell pretty well when you're finally capped.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 6:15pm by Melphina
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#20 Feb 03 2011 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Yup, test is simple enough, just need someone with some time to do it. Unfortunately to get a statistically significant sample would require a lot of time. If you just wanted to get an "ok, I'm convinced" kind of argument then you couple probably do it in a few hours.

Too much in game stuff I want to do first, though I'd love to see this tested.
#21 Feb 03 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I think it has something to do with tahrongi being a Visions area, and an inherent change between visions --> scars --> heroes. I have 3 abyssites of destiny and I need to kill about 15-18 Aspids to cap my amber light solo, and I can kill three or four Ephemeral Limules and STILL not cap amber. However if I'm farming abyssea Altepa after I Aeolian Edge an elemental I'm already getting tier 3/4 gold boxes, and after killing a second elemental I'm at giant boxes. If I manage to kill three elementals my amber ights is way capped, not that it matters because if I wanted I could amber about 9-12 scorpions for the same effect. Visions zones seem to take a lot longer to cap lights, and ephemerals don't seem as powerful in there as they do in Scars and Heroes zones. I don't think it has anything to do with your abyssites SKSmokes, just the zone you're using them in.


Scars/Heroes zones automatically provide you with a boost to lights based on the status of Bastion/Dominion in the area.

There's appropriate NPCs at the entrances in each Scars/Heroes zone that will give you an outline of the current beneficial effects provided upon request.

We usually get spanked in Bastion so the beneficial effects aren't always there, but Ephs are also a lot more plentiful in Scars zones compared to Visions (or so it seems to me, anyway) that it's not really an issue anyway. Heroes zones have rarer + more annoying "Eph" mobs, but Dominion is a lot easier to be "maxed out" on than Bastion. So yeah, it is actually pretty common to see high-quality chests drop in Heroes zones with zero of the appropriate light.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 7:51pm by Fynlar
#22 Feb 04 2011 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Out of curiosity, are you equipping your MaB AE atmas fulltime? Or are you going back to the atma infusionist to change to DD atmas once you cap azure/amber?
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#23 Feb 04 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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To cap light fast I usually solo surrounding easy NMs in Vision area.
In La Theine I pick usually the rabbit, bird then wasp. Rinse and repeat. Usually need only 4 kill of those to cap anything. But now I'm looking toward Tahrongi... I wonder which will do the job. The tiny mandragora comes to mind. The coeurl also but this one can kill me instantly if I don't focus a bit :P

What about you on Vision Area ?
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#24 Feb 04 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Out of curiosity, are you equipping your MaB AE atmas fulltime? Or are you going back to the atma infusionist to change to DD atmas once you cap azure/amber?


Yes, I change to DD atmas after capping my azure. I use MM + baying and beyond to cap my azure because the ni wheel sucks without them, but they aren't important after that. I can cap amber just fine with DD atmas. I only fulltime MaB atmas when I'm aeolian edge burning with a group of friends. As an aside, I use Razed Ruins + Atma of Gales + Baying Moon to aeolian spam. Since Aeolian Edge has a 30% dex modifier RR is well worth using because it increases weaponskill damage effectively, but DoT damage dramatically.

By the way, I've heard atma's which cater to one specific element give elemental staff bonuses rather than straight MAB/MACC bonus, in which case atma of gales should have the effect a magic damage affinity +3 wind Teiwaz?? I haven't seen any confirmation this is how they work mind you, but someone suggested Minor, Major, and Superior would equate to NQ elemental staff bonus, Teiwaz (damage +3), +5 would be like a Vayu's Staff +1. Of course even if that's not how they work atma of gales is still an aeolian atma and REALLY easy to get. Atma of ultimate would be better to aeolian spam than baying moon, but since I don't have ultimate baying is my next best choice.

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 10:07am by Melphina
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#25 Feb 04 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Scars/Heroes zones automatically provide you with a boost to lights based on the status of Bastion/Dominion in the area.

There's appropriate NPCs at the entrances in each Scars/Heroes zone that will give you an outline of the current beneficial effects provided upon request.

We usually get spanked in Bastion so the beneficial effects aren't always there, but Ephs are also a lot more plentiful in Scars zones compared to Visions (or so it seems to me, anyway) that it's not really an issue anyway. Heroes zones have rarer + more annoying "Eph" mobs, but Dominion is a lot easier to be "maxed out" on than Bastion. So yeah, it is actually pretty common to see high-quality chests drop in Heroes zones with zero of the appropriate light.


The only zone with fewer ephs than any other is Tahrongi. Both Konschat and La Thiene are swimming in ephs like scars areas.

Any information on how many more lights ephs provide based on some formula of some kind? I've also encountered situations where 9 azured murexes later I was still consistently getting 800 cruor/1K xp chests.
#26 Feb 04 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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SKSmokes wrote:
Any information on how many more lights ephs provide based on some formula of some kind? I've also encountered situations where 9 azured murexes later I was still consistently getting 800 cruor/1K xp chests.

Nothing confirmed / proven (as far as I know) but with my LS we conclude that the level of the monster affect also the strength of the light it gives, well at the very least for Ephemeral.

So spaming ephemeral still work but only if they're Tough or Very Tough. That's why my LS and I go directly for NMs to build lights. Some are easy to spam and they're 100% for every light and offer strong light boost.

Well nothing proven but that was our LS conclusion based on our experiences.
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#27 Feb 04 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I have been doing this on Dancer using the described Atmas in Konschtat to help friends gold box farm and finish my OA2-4 dagger (which I incidentally intend to use basically just for Aeolian Edge spam). This is my build:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/197516

In general I do about 1800 at 100TP. On DNC/SAM with Tacos I can round up about 8-10 EM monsters and kill them solo (Fan Dance). With a healer or sleeper I can do an entire monster population. This made my 700 lizard kills for the last stage of the OA2-4 dagger very fast. With a Beastmaster and Bard (the BST was using Nanzuna to sleep sometimes), I could do pretty much the entire Eft population at once.

Assuming no support or Sleeper support:
Sekka Aeolian Edge -> Waltz -> Aeolian Edge -> Reverse Flourish -> Aeolian Edge -> NFR/Meditate/Presto Step -> Waltz -> reverse Flourish -> Aeolian Edge

With a WHM or RDM, I do the same thing without the Waltzes.

I imagine Thief would need support to do this, but if you had it it may be worth considering subbing Samurai. Sekka eliminates the TP Bonus of Martial, but lets you start with two Aeolian Edges right away and Meditate gets you to at third faster.
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#28 Feb 04 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for all the advice so far. I look forward to trying our Gold Box farm again tomorrow night.

I can never seem to find a Martial Knife on AH, even though I practically camp it on FFXIAH. I actually started work on a TP Bonus Fusetto. On the Cyclone trial atm.

Brythnoth, what augments are on those Demon Rings? MAB+3 on each?
#29 Feb 05 2011 at 3:50 AM Rating: Default
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Using a martial knife would raise your Aeolian Edge damage but drastically kill your DoT, to the point where the time you gain by killing with a stronger WS you would offset and infact lose because your killspeed in the TP phase is much worse.

Like, melee a mob to 10% with real dagger, use Aeolian Edge for kill. Or Melee a mob with martial to 15% and use aeolian edge for the kill. Sounds better except that it'll take you longer to get it to 15% health with martial than it will to 10% with a proper dagger.

Leave that trash on the AH imo.
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#30 Feb 05 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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@Noodles I think you're absoutly right, if you're talking about killing a mob one at a time, but Byrthnoth and others are talking about rounding up 10+mobs at a time. When AE is dealing it's dmg X 20 targets you're main focus should be in dealing as much damage with it as you can, your actuall tp dmg becomes fairly non important the more mobs there are being hit with the aera WS.
#31 Feb 05 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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GreyBis is spot on. I can get amber light just by using aeolian edge at low hp with regular weapons and atma. You don't need to change ANYTHING to get amber light, but an aeolian edge burn is like a fell cleave burn so I use MaB atmas full time for those. In my opinion the "perfect" aeolian edge burn atma combo would be the Atma of Gales, Ultimate, and Baying Moon. I can never find a martial knife on the auction house either and the price has been steadily rising. However I intend to finish a nuking 9 INT/10 MAB Kila +2, and I think it's even stronger than martial knife is to aeolian edge with.

Aeolian Edge (30% dex and 30% INT mod)
100 TP == 2.75
200% TP == 3.5

Martial Knife
Damage 27 --- TP mod

Nuking Kila +2
Damage 43, 9 INT, 10 MaB

Furthermore the Kila +2's will only grow stronger next update. Nuking Kila +2 has 16 more base damage than Martial knife in addition to 9 INT and 10 MaB. Not only does the INT raise base damage directly (magic weaponskills base D is affected by dINT in the same way physical weaponskills are affected by fSTR) but the 9 INT is also a secondary modifier (30% INT mod), and the 10 MaB is the coup de grace. I'm working on a pair of these myself, and while most thieves probably don't have them they are a strong investment for an aeolian edge burn/build. I'm pretty sure the nuking Kila +2 is flat out better than the martial knife is to aeolian edge with. If aeolian edge had a larger difference between the 100% and the 200% fTP mod I would say otherwise, but 3.5 is not a terribly big improvement over 2.75, and the difference between nuking Kila +2 vs. Martial Knife's "standard" stats.... is. Plus, while DoT is much less relevant when you're aeolian edge burning, it's not IRRELEVANT, and Kila +2 utterly demolishes martial knife on that front, which IMO seals the deal for the nuking Kila +2.

Edited, Feb 5th 2011 10:27am by Melphina
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#32 Feb 05 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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For those that haven't figured out the actual effects of Destiny, Kismet and Prosperity abyssites, they don't give enhanced lights, they will occasionally give you higher tier chests than your lights would normally give you. Kismet has on a few occasions given me time extension, 1000 cruor and 1250 experience without any azure lights whatsoever, and I have done about 20+ amber kills with all Destiny abyssites without ever seeing one large gold chest.
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Jayheart wrote:
Does anyone actually have this knife yet? What does "Increase Critical Hit Dammage" do?


Endrew wrote:
i dont have the dagger, but i'm pretty sure it increaes the damage of your critical hits


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#33 Feb 05 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for that idea Melphina. I think I'll drop my Fusetto (only 2 trials in anyways) and work on the INT Kilas. The nearly constant weather in U range should make them super fast to finish. I still have 1600 WS to do to finish the TP bonus Fusetto. Ugh.
#34 Feb 05 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
For those that haven't figured out the actual effects of Destiny, Kismet and Prosperity abyssites, they don't give enhanced lights, they will occasionally give you higher tier chests than your lights would normally give you.


Is that really what they do? I'm not saying it isn't because I've noticed the same thing happen myself, I'm just curious if there's any testing to back this up. I've heard the abyssites do many different things, including

1:) Give you a chance of raising that light every time you kill mob regardless of what kind of killshot you get (people use this to explain why red boxes can start to appear a LOT even if you never get ONE ruby light yourself)

2:) Increase the speed that light builds when you get the corresponding killshot (IE: a person with 3 destinies builds amber light a lot faster than a person with none)

3:) What you just stated. They give a chance to pop a higher tier box regardless of light

I have run into abyssea and gotten a time extension my first kill, but this was in grauberg and as Fynlar stated Dominion gives you a flat bonus to all lights the moment you enter. Consequently I have NEVER gotten a time extension in tahrongi, la thiene, or konstant until I have built up my azure light, and it usually takes 10-20 minutes before I see one. I have also seen ruby boxes spawn all over the place when the only mobs I've killed were adamantoise (and only with amber or pearlescent) and tahrongi bats (which CANT give ruby). I have all three abyssites of destiny and I have never once seen a gigantic gold box on my first kill, but I do feel like my amber light caps much sooner now than it did without all three. I counted how many turtles I killed at lvl 85 when I only had one destiny abyssite, and it was more than 20 and close to 30 before we were capped. I can cap out amber in 15-18 kills at lvl 90 with all three of them.

I've seen evidence that both supports and discredits all of the theories, so I don't know which one is right for certain. The theory that "feels" the most accurate though is that abyssites of the corresponding color luck increase the rate of which the player is able to build that light when they land the corresponding killshot. If you can link me to some solid testing that proves otherwise I'd appreciate it.

EDIT: one quick question
Quote:
Thanks for that idea Melphina. I think I'll drop my Fusetto (only 2 trials in anyways) and work on the INT Kilas. The nearly constant weather in U range should make them super fast to finish. I still have 1600 WS to do to finish the TP bonus Fusetto. Ugh.


The nice thing about the nuking kila +2 is that a lot of the trials can be done in ulu range where weather is almost perpetual, however the millioneyes for the second trial can only be found inside the mountain so you have to fall down and land correctly. I've had a lousy time catching the rainy season in the jungles so I have a quick question. Which of the Pso'Xja towers has the millioneyes in it? I know one of the five towers has millioneyes and there's almost always ice or darkness weather there, but I can't remember which one. I did CoP so long ago I've forgotten which tower I should look for them in.

Edited, Feb 5th 2011 11:43am by Melphina
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#35 Feb 06 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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I have only seen the highest tier with no lights in Heroes zones, but I've gotten varying tiers with same lights in pretty much all areas. I do not believe they give enhanced light builds at all since I've on two occcasions done multiple amber kills on T1 VNM, talking 10-15, and still not seen big boxes drop. As for the theory about giving lights every time you kill, no. Azure, amber and ruby will give you the appropriate light every time unless the mob does not give that light (and maybe some have a lower rate for certain lights), but to me it seems like pearl is the only light that's not 100% (compare azuring and ambering ephemerals (or anything really) with pearling them).
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Jayheart wrote:
Does anyone actually have this knife yet? What does "Increase Critical Hit Dammage" do?


Endrew wrote:
i dont have the dagger, but i'm pretty sure it increaes the damage of your critical hits


bsphil wrote:
Genius!
#36 Feb 06 2011 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
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anarkrist wrote:
For those that haven't figured out the actual effects of Destiny, Kismet and Prosperity abyssites, they don't give enhanced lights, they will occasionally give you higher tier chests than your lights would normally give you. Kismet has on a few occasions given me time extension, 1000 cruor and 1250 experience without any azure lights whatsoever, and I have done about 20+ amber kills with all Destiny abyssites without ever seeing one large gold chest.


I'm tempted to say you're wrong.

But I have to ask if you were getting these "high tiered" chests in Heroes, Visions, or Scars zones?

I regularly get TE with zero azure in heroes zones because that's the nature of those zones. It's like the martello buffs from scars zones.

edit: i just read your other post, yeah... then you're wrong.



Edited, Feb 6th 2011 2:38am by cyrii
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#37 Feb 06 2011 at 5:47 AM Rating: Good
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You could just spend time doing the TP bonus + 100 trial fusetto, and it wouldn't have wank damage in the TP phase unlike martial.
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#38 Feb 09 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Melphina wrote:
The nice thing about the nuking kila +2 is that a lot of the trials can be done in ulu range where weather is almost perpetual, however the millioneyes for the second trial can only be found inside the mountain so you have to fall down and land correctly. I've had a lousy time catching the rainy season in the jungles so I have a quick question. Which of the Pso'Xja towers has the millioneyes in it? I know one of the five towers has millioneyes and there's almost always ice or darkness weather there, but I can't remember which one. I did CoP so long ago I've forgotten which tower I should look for them in.
I entered the tower marked "6" on the marked up Wiki map, located at (H-10) in Beaucedine Glacier, and found a few Million Eyes. There weren't many, I got pretty turned around/lost inside, and then had dungeon respawns to deal with. You only had to kill 10, so I was able to complete the trial there, but the first time I did the trial (simultaneously working on 2 INT Kilas) I did it in the U Range mountain and felt it was superior. (IDK if entering another part of Pso'Ja would have been better.) Maybe you can nexus to a friend if you have a hard time falling onto the ledge.

Next trial is aquans on ice day/weather. Apparently Ruszors count as aquans. IDK if I can be bothered to go to Beauc-S though and fight them. I might just slap around some crabs or pugils on iceday instead.
#39 Feb 10 2011 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You could just spend time doing the TP bonus + 100 trial fusetto, and it wouldn't have wank damage in the TP phase unlike martial.


damage in the TP phase is kind of bad... dont want to accidently kill that mob too soon and lose engagement. It usually doesnt happen, but it can. Mkris is great tho for AE burns, more ws in less time ftw.
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#40 Feb 11 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Default
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LordTrey wrote:
damage in the TP phase is kind of bad... dont want to accidently kill that mob too soon and lose engagement.
/autotarget on
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#41 Feb 11 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Auto target acts funky when 15+ mobs are on top of each other. You often target a mob that moves behind you or to the side giving a lockon and turn to melee or ws.

More important point is TP damage does not matter. if yo have 15 mobs and 1-2 die early it still takes the exact same amount to ws to kill the group in the exact same amour of time. WS frequency and damage arevthe only way to kill the group faster. Hard to say if martial/mkris, single wield mkris, or mkris/some oat, or even kris/rapidus would come out on top.

I guess martial and fusetto would do the exact same thing. But one is just Gil the other is a big time sink for a dagger I wouldn't use for much else.
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#42 Feb 12 2011 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Does martial TP bonus work in the offhand too? What about TP+100 Fusetto?
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#43 Feb 12 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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Noodles wrote:
Does martial TP bonus work in the offhand too? What about TP+100 Fusetto?


Neither function in the offhand. :\
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