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Elemental Belts and WS setsFollow

#1 Dec 22 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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So I read that the elemental belts are the same as sea gorgets. +0.1 fTP and some accuracy.

What does this mean for THF ws sets?

I've always used Love Torque full time on THF for TP and WS but this was pre-abyssea and I vaguely remember reading that Love Torque > sea gorget a long long time ago.

I currently use (for unstacked evisceration)

MKD (str+4 wsacc+15 dex+4 crit dmg+2%) / Love Torque / Aesir / Pixie
Skadi's Cuirie / Skadi's Bazubands / Grace Ring (acc+4) / Rajas Ring
Forager's Mantle / Anguinus Belt / Raider's Coulottes +2 / Marine F Boots

Weapons/ranged change a lot.

Yeah, I know RSE2 Feet are pretty **** but I can't bring myself to buy lithe boots and we haven't farmed them while working on Ukonvasara yet. I'll get a pair soon enough, I guess.

Obviously some pieces move around when stacking SA or TA, but I generally don't stack my ws anymore and just spam at 100+% and just solo sa/ta.

Should I be using a sea gorget and should I look into getting them elemental belts?
and
What are your WS set(s) and would you incorporate the new elemental belts in somehow?
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#2 Dec 22 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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Love Torque is just better than weaponskill gorgets and we have a waist option that surpasses Love Torque (Cuchulain's Belt), as well as our standard Warwolf Belt. Kulkulain (the boss of abyssea konstant) also drops the Anguinus Belt which is a really good weaponskill piece and he's pretty easy to take down. If you're using a multi hit weaponskill then the damage is only applied to the first swing, whereas accuracy is applied to every swing. That WOULD have been important at lvl 75, but if you can get an elemental belt then you probably don't need accuracy anyway, and if you DO need accuracy in abyssea you probably won't be seeing one of these anytime soon because you have a lot of work ahead of you. One of the biggest reasons people used the gorgets was for the accuracy, but now that acc problems are a thing of the past the elemental gorgets are a relic of times gone by, and the weaponskill belts were obsolete before they were even released.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 10:15am by Melphina
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#3 Dec 22 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Im not entirely sure our old adages work for this belt. Obviously, for multi hits DE and Evis, the ONLY reason to use a gorget/belt is for the acc as FTP doesnt really do jack for 6hit+ WS as it only affecets the 1st hit.

However, on SB and mandalic stab, I am not so sure. Mandalic stab has a 2.0 FTP at 100tp. Adding .1 is a 5% boost to damage. SB being a 2.0 ftp also gets 5% more damage. Previously, Love torque edged it out because the 5 dex with SB's 50% dex mod kept up with the .1 FTP with a side of atk. MS got less from the dex (30% mod) but more from the atk as it multiplies our atk (not to mention dex for SA). This is still true and would apply similarly to say, cuchulains belt.

But in abyssea, we have HUGE stat boosts. Raising our base damage more gets decreasing returns the more we add. Just like how if you have 100 base damage with SA and add 5 dex, you increase SA damage by 5%. But if you have 200 base damage, that same 5 dex will only be 2.5% boost. Even though 5 dex would match 5% crit damage at 100 base damage (both add 5 damage, or 5%), at 200, 5 dex looses to 5% crit damage (dex is +5 damage, crit5% is 10 damage).

FTP is a % boost. Adding dex is a linear boost making it decreasing returns by adding more. With the HUGE amounts of base stats in abyssea now, Atk and FTP will both be more powerful than before relative to dex. I would need to run some numbers to see how atk+dex (Love/cuchulains) compares to FTP these days as I dont know off the top of my head.

Perhaps it is time to re-evaluate regarding our 1 hit wonder WS.
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#4 Dec 22 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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The fact that evisceration is 6 hit's (always dual wield) coupled with the critical nature makes it better than shark bite in almost every way. There are very few mobs inside abyssea which are so evasive need to use shark bite on them. Instead of mathing it I'm simply going to post some screenshots. I have to go away for a bit now but I'll be back later to further my point.
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#5 Dec 22 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Fair enough. I suppose at this point its more of a cerebral exercise than anything since there isnt really any situation to use MS/SB while buffd up with enough dex for FTP to make a dif since, in said situation, you should jsut use evis anyway.
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Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#6 Dec 22 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Fair enough. I suppose at this point its more of a cerebral exercise than anything since there isnt really any situation to use MS/SB while buffd up with enough dex for FTP to make a dif since, in said situation, you should jsut use evis anyway.


Basically this. Shark bite's 100% tp mod is 2.0 fTP, and my weaponskill set has dex 250+ dex in abyssea. Shark bite must be stacked in order for it to be useful, so you're comparing a stacked SB with a stacked EV. The first hit of SB would look something like this

(43 + 14 + ((250 x 0.5) x0.85)) x 2.0 + 250 == 586 damage critical

let's just say your attack is capped at 3.0 and you have a 1.4 crit damage multiplier

586 x 3 x 1.4 == 2461

Now evisceration would look something like this


(43 + 14 + ((250 x 0.3) x0.85)) + 250 == 370 damage critical

with the same bonuses

370 x 3 x 1.4 == 1554 damage critical

But that's it for shark bite; it ends right there. While shark bite is about 900 damage ahead evisceration gets 4 more swings to work with and the offhand hit (or hits if multi proc) which cannot critical on shark bite CAN critical on evisceration. Since we're dealing with a capped attack scenario a non critical evisceration swing will do approximately 350 damage (43 + 14 + 63 == 120 base damage on non criticals) and any criticals get the 1.4 damage boost on top of the added 1.0 pDIF.

Assuming you have razed ruins the only time shark bite is better than evisceration is if you are literally landing only one or two swings when you weaponskill, but that shouldn't be the case even on evasive things like Flame Skimmer. The result would have been the same with a lower attack rating as well.

This is just an example with RR but even without RR the massive mods still cater to evisceration more than they do SB. SB is not a bad weaponskill, but it is outclassed by multi hit thanks to enormous buffs and stats. Mercy Stroke and Rudra's Storm are another story, and I would argue those are better than evisceration, especially with the new reports that relic weaponskills have been beefed up heavily for people who have the level 90 weapon (or is it just tied to the weapon period? Actually from what I read it sounded like Mandau + Mercy Stroke is 25% stronger and the only requirement is actually owning Mandau itself)
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#7 Dec 22 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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The only WS where Gorgets and Belts would make any substantial impact over Love Torque and the standard belt options (ignoring weapon specific ones) are Shark Bite and Mandalic Stab. For Shark Bite I think the magic number where gorget takes the lead against Love Torque is somewhere around 150 DEX and up. For Mandalic Stab I believe the number is somewhere just above 200. These numbers of course only consider DEX and fTP, and doesn't delve into the finicky world of attack and defense (neither does it involve fSTR and GT5 just finished updating and I don't want to recrunch the numbers).
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#8 Dec 22 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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wait has it been confirmed that the belts do the same mods as neck pieces?
has anyone tested it yet? might have diff stats
#9 Dec 22 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Default
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It's either the same or slightly higher but both tests I saw done it was within 0.1 or 0.15 ftp.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 9:44pm by Neisan
#10 Dec 24 2010 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Melphina wrote:
Actually from what I read it sounded like Mandau + Mercy Stroke is 25% stronger and the only requirement is actually owning Mandau itself)


It's a *1.25 multiplier tacked onto the end of the WS. It only works for the weapon's signature WS (I wish it also worked with Evisceration)



Edited, Dec 24th 2010 6:35am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#11 Dec 24 2010 at 4:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
Melphina wrote:
Actually from what I read it sounded like Mandau + Mercy Stroke is 25% stronger and the only requirement is actually owning Mandau itself)


It's a *1.25 multiplier tacked onto the end of the WS. It only works for the weapon's signature WS (I wish it also worked with Evisceration)


Out of curiosity, are you seeing much higher numbers with Mercy Stroke than Evisceration in Abyssea? It seems wierd, but I've been in abyssea parties now with 2 different mandau THVs (one after the update) and mercy stroke never seemd to break like 3kish?

Was i just witnessing some gimp mandau THFness?
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#12 Dec 24 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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They probably needed Mandau 90 for the bonus damage. SE is cool like that.
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