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THF TH after update > melee in thf knifeFollow

#1 Dec 07 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Gonna make it short, its late.

With no TH items, the message after a melee reads:
"Additional effect: The [mob name]'s Treasure Hunter effectiveness increases to 3."

With either AF2 gloves or THF knife, the number starts off at 4.
With both AF2 gloves and THF knife, the number starts off at 5.

With each consecutive hit after the first proc it is raised by exactly 1. At first I thought "great we won't have to melee in thf knife or gloves" but honestly if the starting number is determined by your gear, you will definitely have to melee in ****** gear until the initial proc.


Thanks SE, this is what the thf community has been asking for!!! amirite guys!?
#2 Dec 07 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Pretty much ends the ago old debate of TH4 vs TH2+2.

The results from the procs deffititly put armlets and knife as equal in effect to the traits.

Going to have definite answers to so many questions real soon.

Can we really take them off hands and knife after first hit and the numbers go 5,6,7, or will it be 3,4,5?
Will 2 thief fighting same mob mean both can cause number to increase?



Edited, Dec 7th 2010 2:15am by Everydamnnameistaken
#3 Dec 07 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Perhaps kinda lame.

In an event like Dynamis though, you wouldn't ever take off TH4 anyway if mobs were dying as fast as they should be. Didn't want to risk a mob or stone dying without maxed TH. So an event where mobs die incredibly fast and you want drops, such as that, will be unchanged.

For longer fights though, I do admit that most of my LS's and pickups let me engage the mob with TH4 and take it off (or rather they didn't complain about it), only to put it on at the last few % just in case. Meanwhile, I'm sure many of us have had to deal w/ LS's that forced you to melee in TH4 full-time for even long fights.

So for long HNM'ey fights, some of us will now feel relief. Whereas others of us (perhaps the majority) will feel kinda disgusted unless max TH can be procced rather quickly (try using SA/TA to raise proc chance?).

I suppose it's those middle-length fights, maybe something like 30seconds to 1minute+, that will hurt most. In those fights pre-update (think salvage farms), most of us had to keep TK on full time, but could take off the gloves after engaging. Probably won't be able to do that now.
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#4 Dec 07 2010 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
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Also, I do feel that TH trait and TH+1 were quite different pre-update. We've had large enough sample sizes (within the thousands) to establish that it was vastly more probable that they were not equivalent.

I simply feel that they changed the TH mechanic in this update. And as someone said in another thread, it is possible that each increase in TH level offers smaller gains than the last.
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#5 Dec 07 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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I've reached 90 sooner today (dw pwns~) and i had time to do some tests on th.

Basically what Xaetica noticed is correct. One thing i've noticed tho: we have to melee in full th gear to reach higher numbers. Normal tp set th, and an actual th set, are exclusive, the highest will stay active. I concluded this after following happening:

If we melee with dps set, TH will be enhanced to 4 (lv90). If we melee some more, it will be enhanced to 5. (2 boosts was the highest i've seen - if this is not the limit reaching a 3rd boost can be quite hard)
Now if at the same mob we swap to full th gear we will get it to 7 (won't take long to happen). Meleeing/sataing some more with th gear can make it get to 8.

So the gear was negating the effect of the previous boosts and allowing me to boost th to higher grounds yet again.

Yeah...this doesn't sound so awesome to me now, not when i need to stay with th gear full time.


Everydamnnameistaken wrote:
Can we really take them off hands and knife after first hit and the numbers go 5,6,7, or will it be 3,4,5?

If i came back to dps set after reaching a higher value of th, th level won't return to a lower value. At least i never had it happen.

Still got a taboo question left to answer: will we loose th if we die? we can finally answer this for sure. And i can't wait to know the answer~ I'm too tired to test it right now and my bed is calling me.

Edited, Dec 7th 2010 2:53am by Laphine
#6 Dec 07 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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This also gives us a chance to find out if Atma of Dread stacks with THF TH.
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#7 Dec 07 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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Those are interesting observations, laphine.

Concerning some of the mechanics; We had answers to things like "death" before; it wouldn't be removed. I don't suspect they've changed any of the other ways it works. For any future testing that might ever be done tho, you said it right; the fact that we can now see it take place in the log can make things a lot easier.
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#8 Dec 07 2010 at 2:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Someone on BG tested TH atma. It does stack with TH. Very ***. Was planning on just telling people I had TH atma when I really had RR. Can't do that now because they will all be expecting first proc to be an 8.

TH8... wouldn't that be something insane like +400% to drop rate?
#9 Dec 07 2010 at 2:42 AM Rating: Good
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Laphine wrote:
If we melee with dps set, TH will be enhanced to 4 (lv90). If we melee some more, it will be enhanced to 5. (2 boosts was the highest i've seen - if this is not the limit reaching a 3rd boost can be quite hard)
Now if at the same mob we swap to full th gear we will get it to 7 (won't take long to happen). Meleeing/sataing some more with th gear can make it get to 8.

I can personally vouch that shooting something in full TH+ works to establish the minimum, and that you don't have to keep it on until the first increase. I have my relic gloves in my /ra set so it's just in for that part, but any mob that I've shot will proc to +4 first instead of +3 (this was before I hit 90, so TH2 base) even though I don't have the armlets on anymore by the time I get the increase.

So we know for certain that you don't have to keep it on once you've hit it once, if it happens prior to the first increase in TH. From what you're describing, it sounds like it might work even if you equip your gear after the first proc. You engage normally, starting with +3. You get a proc, go to +4. You equip the armlets, invisibly go to +5, then get a proc and go to +6. Assuming that's the case, you still only have to hit it once with your +th gear on, and it matches the way SE described it.
#10 Dec 07 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Everydamnnameistaken wrote:
Pretty much ends the ago old debate of TH4 vs TH2+2.

The results from the procs deffititly put armlets and knife as equal in effect to the traits.

Going to have definite answers to so many questions real soon.

Can we really take them off hands and knife after first hit and the numbers go 5,6,7, or will it be 3,4,5?
Will 2 thief fighting same mob mean both can cause number to increase?



Edited, Dec 7th 2010 2:15am by Everydamnnameistaken

It doesn't end the debate on TH4 vs TH2+2 at all. It could just as easily be shown that way in the log for convenience, and still have them be very different in the actual implementation. Just because TH2+1 and TH3 would both show up the same in the message doesn't mean they're actually accomplishing the same thing.
#11 Dec 07 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Default
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Xaetica wrote:


With each consecutive hit after the first proc it is raised by exactly 1. At first I thought "great we won't have to melee in thf knife or gloves" but honestly if the starting number is determined by your gear, you will definitely have to melee in sh*tty gear until the initial proc.


The starting number is determined by the level of TH that is on the mob.

Does anyone know if multiple THFs can raise the TH value faster?
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#12 Dec 07 2010 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
Xaetica wrote:


With each consecutive hit after the first proc it is raised by exactly 1. At first I thought "great we won't have to melee in thf knife or gloves" but honestly if the starting number is determined by your gear, you will definitely have to melee in sh*tty gear until the initial proc.


The starting number is determined by the level of TH that is on the mob.

Does anyone know if multiple THFs can raise the TH value faster?


It might be possible. I saw a few occurances of this in dynamis tonight. Ie I raised it to 5 and another THF raised it to 6. IS possible log displaying incorrectly but it happend a few times. Would need to test it to be sure.
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#13 Dec 07 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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Figured I should let you guys know, I just had TH+ proc in a WS, and it -does not- state that it procs. I'm farming rare/ex **** for my job emotes on my 45 thf, smack a yagudo theologist, Cyclone, and then a couple hits later, I get a message stating that my TH rises to level 4. Not shocking since add'd effects can and do proc in WS normally, though. I can post screen shots if you guys want me to/
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#14 Dec 07 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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It'll be interesting to see what the max level ends up capping out at and if multiple thieves can both raise treasure hunter together. I won't get a chance to play until tonight but I'm going to reserve judgment on my opinion until more info is collected. I also feel that before the update TH 2 +2 was not the same as the concept of TH4, but I want to see what kind of results we end up getting on mobs that matter with X level of TH versus Y amount. Now that we'll be level 90 old HMN's will be crazily easy so I'll be interested in seeing what kind of drops people end up getting from higher tier values versus those they've been accustomed to. The version update just happened so we'll see how this changes opinions after getting to experience it for a while.
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#15 Dec 07 2010 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Someone on BG tested TH atma. It does stack with TH. Very ***. Was planning on just telling people I had TH atma when I really had RR. Can't do that now because they will all be expecting first proc to be an 8.


I'd still go with RR for your other atma which is just as well as anyone can clearly tell when you have it on. It's the other one I was planning on lying about. :P It's a lot harder to tell if you have stout arm.
#16 Dec 07 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Hripthe wrote:
I can personally vouch that shooting something in full TH+ works to establish the minimum, and that you don't have to keep it on until the first increase. I have my relic gloves in my /ra set so it's just in for that part, but any mob that I've shot will proc to +4 first instead of +3 (this was before I hit 90, so TH2 base) even though I don't have the armlets on anymore by the time I get the increase.


I never got a boost after a TH+ ranged attack, not even once. I thought this was because TH6 from ranged was higher than TH3 with usual tp set (like other debuffs work). Maybe i was unlucky then and if others start getting these results i suppose there is hope for us after all lol.

Hripthe wrote:
So we know for certain that you don't have to keep it on once you've hit it once, if it happens prior to the first increase in TH. From what you're describing, it sounds like it might work even if you equip your gear after the first proc. You engage normally, starting with +3. You get a proc, go to +4. You equip the armlets, invisibly go to +5, then get a proc and go to +6. Assuming that's the case, you still only have to hit it once with your +th gear on, and it matches the way SE described it.


Following your example this is how it happened to me: You engage normally, starting with +3. You get a proc, go to +4. You equip the armlets, then go to +5 and +6. The problem was that to reach +5 and +6 we need to melee with armlets the whole time. If we could ranged attack will full TH+ gear, placing a base of 6 at a mob, it would be much better if we could boost it to 7 and 8 with dps tp gear.
#17 Dec 07 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Lady Jinte wrote:
Figured I should let you guys know, I just had TH+ proc in a WS, and it -does not- state that it procs. I'm farming rare/ex sh*t for my job emotes on my 45 thf, smack a yagudo theologist, Cyclone, and then a couple hits later, I get a message stating that my TH rises to level 4. Not shocking since add'd effects can and do proc in WS normally, though. I can post screen shots if you guys want me to/

Oh, that could make sense of what I was seeing last night. Every now and then I'd get a proc that skipped one, and I couldn't figure out why, but it was always after I'd WSed at least once.
#18 Dec 07 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Hripthe wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
Figured I should let you guys know, I just had TH+ proc in a WS, and it -does not- state that it procs. I'm farming rare/ex sh*t for my job emotes on my 45 thf, smack a yagudo theologist, Cyclone, and then a couple hits later, I get a message stating that my TH rises to level 4. Not shocking since add'd effects can and do proc in WS normally, though. I can post screen shots if you guys want me to/

Oh, that could make sense of what I was seeing last night. Every now and then I'd get a proc that skipped one, and I couldn't figure out why, but it was always after I'd WSed at least once.


It is also possible that I can proc twice on a triple attack but doesn't show both in the log. I would occasionally proc a 6 instead of a 5 on the first hit and I noticed that each time was a multi attack.
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#19 Dec 07 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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From now on zerging is going to mean sacrificing drop rate.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#20 Dec 07 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Default
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SKSmokes wrote:
Quote:
Someone on BG tested TH atma. It does stack with TH. Very ***. Was planning on just telling people I had TH atma when I really had RR. Can't do that now because they will all be expecting first proc to be an 8.


I'd still go with RR for your other atma which is just as well as anyone can clearly tell when you have it on. It's the other one I was planning on lying about. :P It's a lot harder to tell if you have stout arm.


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THFs get to be better TH whores and they can't pretend to be DD's anymore. Everyone wins!




Edited, Dec 7th 2010 6:34pm by Lobivopis
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#21 Dec 07 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
From now on zerging is going to mean sacrificing drop rate.

That's been true since Scars came out, anyway. For tier1 NMs I already have to hold off damage even in a 4-person party to avoid killing it before we can finish trying to proc yellow !!'s.

Edited, Dec 7th 2010 7:12pm by Hripthe
#22 Dec 07 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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THF TH after update > melee in thf knife

THFs get to be better TH whores and they can't pretend to be DD's anymore. Everyone wins!


Actually it's quite the opposite. This update is a blessing IMO. I've gotten a chance to test this out a bit and what I've discovered is favorable.

Quote:

Can we really take them off hands and knife after first hit


The answer to this is a resounding YES. My test was basic but effective.

NOTE: I tested this after logging in for the first time at level 85. I do not have treasure hunter 3 yet so my base level with no items is TH2 and I have TH4 with armlets and TK. I do not yet own my af3 feet.

The Test: I ran out to Misereaux Coast without any TH gear and sneak attacked a few megalobugards and recieved the text message "The Megalobugard's Treasure Hunter effect raises to level 3". Afterwards I equipped my assassin's armlets and mugged a megalobugard then UNEQUIPPED my assassin's armlets shot him with a sleep bolt and swapped into my homam hands and sneak attacked him. The resulting message was "The Megalobugard's Treasure Hunter effect raises to level 4". For the final test I equipped my thief knife (offhand) and my AA mainhand and shot a megalobugard with a sleep bolt and then unequipped everything and performed a sneak attack naked. The message read "The Megalobugard's Treasure Hunter effect raises to level 5". In both tests I did not receive a treasure hunter message upon making first contact and the only actions I performed were either regular melee or a ranged attack to sleep the beast. The first Treasure hunter message I got included every TH item I used up to that point at a point in time where I had NO treasure hunter equipment active.

CONCLUSION: The evidence is 100% that upon hitting a mob the highest level of treasure is applied immediately (including weapon/armor) and once that level is applied it will not diminish even if you remove your TH + armor and thief's knife. In other words we only need to equip the thief's knife at the very start of a NM battle for the very first hit and can then swap to a USEFUL offhand dagger and ignore TH armor the rest of the fight.

There is no need to fulltime the TK in an NM fight. The only events where you would still want to fulltime the TK are events where you would be doing so anyway (dynamis and salvage), but there are only a few select examples where scrub mobs have important drops (such as farming water in sky to pop Olla Grande), and aside from that it's not a big deal. I've raised my treasure hunter effectiveness to level 5 three times on a megalobugard and gotten nothing at all (they always were stingy) so the overall use still lies on Nms. And we only need the TK for a split second for it to serve its purpose, so fulltiming it is unnecessary. That knowledge is a **** blessing if I ever knew of one.

Edited, Dec 7th 2010 9:45pm by Melphina
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#23 Dec 07 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, that matches the results I posted earlier. The question that still remains is whether you can:

1) Equip nothing to start the fight
2) Get a TH increase from meleeing
3) Equip TH+ gear
4) Hit the mob once then remove TH+ gear
5) Get another TH increase from meleeing that takes both the TH+ gear and the first increase into account.

If that works, we could either start the fight with TH+ gear, equip it briefly sometime in the middle, or just put it on at the end and it would work equally well each way (which is what we've all assumed on here for awhile, but hadn't been able to conclusively prove). I haven't been able to test it yet because I haven't fought anything that stays alive long enough to get more than one proc from meleeing.
#24 Dec 07 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Yeah, that matches the results I posted earlier. The question that still remains is whether you can:

1) Equip nothing to start the fight
2) Get a TH increase from meleeing
3) Equip TH+ gear
4) Hit the mob once then remove TH+ gear
5) Get another TH increase from meleeing that takes both the TH+ gear and the first increase into account.

If that works, we could either start the fight with TH+ gear, equip it briefly sometime in the middle, or just put it on at the end and it would work equally well each way (which is what we've all assumed on here for awhile, but hadn't been able to conclusively prove). I haven't been able to test it yet because I haven't fought anything that stays alive long enough to get more than one proc from meleeing.


You CAN!!! I just tested it ... again (somehow screwed it up the first time.... dunno wtf i did)

I engaged a mob naked and did not get a TH proc in the chatlog. After that I equipped my Thief's Knife and Assassin's Armlets for one attack round then took them off again and continued to melee (also without a chatlog message). Since my H2H skill is low I got a chance to witness a naturally occurring proc and started at level 5!! That means that the TK and AA were included even though I had them on for only one round mid fight. Treasure hunter items can be applied at any time during the battle, and the moment they are applied they stay applied until the mob either goes red or dies.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:32am by Melphina
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#25 Dec 07 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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Well, we don't know that TH after the first strike doesn't have an effect.

You engage naked, you apply TH2

You proc melee TH+, goes to TH3

If you did fists + AA, the TH you would apply at that point would be 3.

So we *don't* know with just that whether the AA did nothing, or just did it to 3.

What we would need to see to know that is

1) Engage naked.
2) Proc TH+ for TH3 total.
3) Put on *two* pieces of TH+ gear for TH4.
4) wait for next TH+ proc, if it's 4, it did nothing, if it's 5, it works.

(obviously it's best to start the fight with all your TH on so you don't waste procs, but it could be important to know whether you can fix your mistake after you've already taken the first action with non-max TH.)


Edited, Dec 7th 2010 11:50pm by LafingCat
#26 Dec 07 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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In fact, I just did this.

I engaged with no TH gear at on, hit the mob.

Then I put on TK + AA. First TH proc was TH5.

So yes. Not starting a fight with TH on can waste procs, but it doesn't fix the mobs base value at TH2(3).

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:10am by LafingCat
#27 Dec 07 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Agreed. I have no idea what I did that botched up that test. I should have paid closer attention to the chatlog because I think i was reading the wrong section of it. It appears treasure hunter + items can be applied at any point in the battle, first strike, final strike, or anywhere in between. They also do not wear if you unequip them, so you only need them on for one round and that's it. That's really good to know.
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#28 Dec 08 2010 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
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This is great findings. Could you please test it with the TH atma as well? This could show if it stacks or not.
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#29 Dec 08 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello, I tested it today and here my results with only TH2 as trait (Lv.86)

A
1.- Engage Naked
2.- Proc. +1 Total 3
3.- Equip TK&AA
4.- Proc. +1 Total 5

B
1.- Engage with TK&AA
2.- Unequip TH
2.- Proc. +1 Total 5

In A case I got TH2 from star, then up to 3 with a proc, and when equip gear it just overwrite previous TH acount and put in on 4, in the end I needed two proc to level it to 5. In the B case I only needed one proc to level it to 5. I guess everyone agreed is better equip TH from the start and remove it for the rest of the fight.

But I don't stop here cause i had some question.

1.- Engage w/ TK&AA
2.- Land a Hit.
3.- Switch Target, the mob becomes Unclaim.
4.- Remove gear.
5.- Back to the mob and claim again.
6.- Proc. +1 Total 5!

Note that I was always in hate list cause the mob never stop hit me. But yes, TH is still on even if the mob goes white as long as you don't leave the hate list. Wanted to test what happend if you leave the hate list but SE nerf Hide so the only way is die and i'm testing solo and don't have anyone to hold the mob while RR and etc...

I still have some doubts like "If we get Lv.5 with melee attacks and equip TH4 gear the level will down to 4?" and "If I already have Lv.6 with melee attacks (the max Lv. gear and trait can bring to us) and equip the gear at this point it will give me any plus or just nothing cause I already have Lv.6?". Equiping TH gear from the start solve all but i'm curios how much sadistic SE can be.

Sorry to those that was reading the post while I edited it (the two times ^^U) and of course if someone don't undestadn any cause my horrible inglish just say me what and i try to "write" it better :P

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:16pm by Vodak

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:23pm by Vodak
#30 Dec 08 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Fun fact i am not sure has been mentioned yet.

Fighting abyssea altepa NM with LS yesterday. I engaged and was fighting (Thf 86) with TH4 on. I got it to proc up to 5. I then died as I was tanking and ichi was being stupid xD Got a raise. Did a SA (with TH4 gear on) and proc TH up to 6. Death has ZERO effect on TH. Can die all you want and it wont reset. I later got a 7 to proc.

In other words I:
Proced TH+5 on mob.
Died
Raised
Proced to +6

Just confirming that TH is not effected by thf death (which SE stated ages ago, but many still doubt).

Also, with TH4 gear, I got it to proc up to TH7 on that mob. I dont know what the 'cap' is, but It is at least +3 (was lv 86 with TH4).

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:38pm by Banalaty
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#31 Dec 08 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Confirming that Mog Tablet TH boost DOES stack with TH traits:

I managed to get TH boosted to Level 4 without any TH gear, at L85, while the tablet effect was active. This actually had me confused for a long time as to what was giving me a base TH3 effect, then I zoned and saw the tablet message pop up.

Tablet effects were lost a few hours later, and as expected, TH returned to the "natural" Level 2 effect.
#32 Dec 08 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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So many myths being busted!

Time to log in and eat a lucky egg!
#33 Dec 08 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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TH+ from multiple THF stacks!

I have TH4, my friend at 90 has TH5. He hit a mob, proced TH6. I then hit the mob and proced TH7!
#34 Dec 08 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
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LafingCat wrote:
TH+ from multiple THF stacks!

I have TH4, my friend at 90 has TH5. He hit a mob, proced TH6. I then hit the mob and proced TH7!



I've seen this too in dynamis the other night.

inb4 nothing but THF melees!!! 5x THF using GH atma for AGL boost and rotating perma conspirator to proc max TH.

You could bring a WAR and a NIN for !! WS too I guess XD
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#35 Dec 08 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
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Managed to get up to TH9 on lebros walls after meleeing for ~20 minutes. Started from TH4 base.
#36 Dec 08 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Good
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UFO's would probably be a good test subject if you wanted to melee something for a looooong time.
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#37 Dec 09 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
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That is a good idea, thiefkiller.
Vodak wrote:
Sorry to those that was reading the post while I edited it (the two times ^^U) and of course if someone don't undestadn any cause my horrible inglish just say me what and i try to "write" it better :P
I understand just fine. It makes sense that TH was not removed when it went yellow, just like with Banalty's test,
Banalty wrote:
Death has ZERO effect on TH

It looks like most of the rules that governed TH are still in place in this update. Activation has the same 2 joint requirements: (1)Perform an action on the mob, and (while) (2)produc(ing) enmity on the mob.
For TH to wear off, (**)the mob must go unclaimed, have its full hate list cleared, and (begin the process of?) regenerate(-ing) a tick of HP.

This new update can allow us to test all the things we've had doubts about, such as "the thief being too far from battle" or "in another zone" or "logged off", etc. But it is likely that the above (**) is the only circumstance where a TH effect becomes removed.

LafingCat wrote:
TH+ from multiple THF stacks!
In one sense, yes. In another sense, maybe not. Perhaps it is the case that he, being the thief with the highest TH, established the base TH value. You, while having a TH value lower than your friend, may still be able to proc TH increases based and only based on your friend's TH level.

For example, let's say that your friend has TH5, and that the max number that this can raise to is 10. Let's just pretend that's the case. Then let's say he engages, establishes the base, and turns around and disengages. You then melee the mob for 20 minutes. Let's assume that being a "TH bearer" allows you to proc raises in the TH level. After 20 minutes, it goes to 10 but won't go any higher.
So if this example were an actual occurrence, it would be the case that,
-TH "stacks" in the sense that "proc chance" stacks; the more thieves you add, the higher the chance that TH will raise in value.
-TH does NOT "stack" in the sense that if you put more than 1 thief on a mob, you will be able to achieve a higher maximum than any single thief ever could.

Since TH from multiple sources didn't stack prior to this update, I'm taking a shot in the dark and guessing that that still hasn't changed, and that something like what is in the above paragraph is what occurred.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 9:04am by Shamaya
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#38 Dec 09 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Shamaya wrote:
So if this example were an actual occurrence, it would be the case that,
-TH "stacks" in the sense that "proc chance" stacks; the more thieves you add, the higher the chance that TH will raise in value.
-TH does NOT "stack" in the sense that if you put more than 1 thief on a mob, you will be able to achieve a higher maximum than any single thief ever could.

Since TH from multiple sources didn't stack prior to this update, I'm taking a shot in the dark and guessing that that still hasn't changed, and that something like what is in the above paragraph is what occurred.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 9:04am by Shamaya

Yes, *if* there is a cap, I don't think it goes up with more THFs, but I'm unconvinced there's a cap. Regardless, since fights don't last indefinitely, having more thfs will get your more TH/time and thus more TH per fight. (As it took me like 20min to get to TH9 with a single thf, and I can't really think of any 20+ minute melee fights.)
#39 Dec 09 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, that is a good point. My intuition is telling me that there is a cap.

But if there isn't, then, depending on how long it takes to achieve higher and higher levels of TH, and depending on the potency increase of each TH level, it could be quite a good idea for some fights, to have quite a large number of thieves pounding away on the mob. After all, if you wanted something like, say, a DEFENDIIIIIIINNNNG Ring, then you could have like 10 thieves using beestingers or something similarly low damage, just proccing up TH to higher and higher levels. Well.. perhaps defending ring is a bad example as it's paired w/ pixie earring and believed to be one of those things that is not effected by TH, but you get the idea.
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#40 Dec 09 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lol i can see it now.

LS chat:
<LSLeader>All right soldiers! Brds Soul voice!....Now SWAP!....Cors blitzer roll! Mages haste the melee! Dncs get your haste samba on! Prep feint!
<Late member> Oh what are you guys doing tonight? Sounds like a zerg.
<LSLeader> Nope. Were just putting TH on kirin with every thf in the LS.
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#41 Dec 09 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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Shamaya wrote:
-TH does NOT "stack" in the sense that if you put more than 1 thief on a mob, you will be able to achieve a higher maximum than any single thief ever could.


It might in all practicality though. Given the lowish proc rate on regular melee swings. If you have lots of THVs meleeing and lined up for regular solo SA and TA, you may very well get higher TH levels than any single THF could realistically achieve on a single NM.
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#42 Dec 12 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Default
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If someone still doubt if equip TH gear will grant any bonus once we are already over this TH level by the procs it won't happend. Today I up TH to 5 w/o TH gear, equip the gear then (TH4), and then TH up to 6. So once we reach the same TH with procs than our gears give to us equip the gear does nothing... well yes, lose your tp.

Yesterday in Abyssea - La Theine I was able to level TH to 7 in a VNM T2, only drops a piece of wood while the previous VNM with less TH on it drop at least the cape... Don't thing put TH10 in a mob will ensure the drop.

And to finish with this spam of prolly useless info just let you know guys that campaign maybe is the best place to test TH, mobs have a lot of hp. I was able today to level it to 6 starting with 2, if you use a low damage weapon and start from TH4 or 6 u have plenty of time to see if up to 10 or no.
#43 Dec 12 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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After TH update my LS now tells me to take off my Mandau/Kila+2 and tickle the mob with a pair of bronze daggers so that I "don't kill it too fast"

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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#44 Dec 13 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I just got a sense of deja vu when I hit reply to say "Your LS is stupid". I think I have said it before, so ill say it again. Your LS is stupid. Good god no wonder your so emo about thf.

I get the whole "Max effectiveness at all times! Mein fuhrer!" attitude. But at some point going so far just isnt fun which is the whole point to play this game. If they really want to make sure to proc TH 8 instead of 7, tell them to go level thf and single wield an Mkris so you can use the **** relic you worked for, otherwise they can shove it.
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Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#45 Dec 13 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
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They might as well have every melee use level 1 weapons at that rate, unless you're the only melee on it.
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#46 Dec 14 2010 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Xaetica wrote:
Gonna make it short, its late.

With no TH items, the message after a melee reads:
"Additional effect: The [mob name]'s Treasure Hunter effectiveness increases to 3."

With either AF2 gloves or THF knife, the number starts off at 4.
With both AF2 gloves and THF knife, the number starts off at 5.

With each consecutive hit after the first proc it is raised by exactly 1. At first I thought "great we won't have to melee in thf knife or gloves" but honestly if the starting number is determined by your gear, you will definitely have to melee in sh*tty gear until the initial proc.


Thanks SE, this is what the thf community has been asking for!!! amirite guys!?


To add:

Will this make it less attractive to have people zerg down NMs? The more time it takes to kill the mob, the longer the time the THF gets to build the TH effectiveness.....
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#47 Dec 14 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Will this make it less attractive to have people zerg down NMs? The more time it takes to kill the mob, the longer the time the THF gets to build the TH effectiveness.....


The more time it takes, the less mobs you kill and the less gear you get in total. If all you care about is to maximize drops per mob, then wasting 10000% as much time as is needed helps. But if you just care about throughput of equips, then drawing it out past !! procs is a waste of time.
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#48 Dec 14 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
After TH update my LS now tells me to take off my Mandau/Kila+2 and tickle the mob with a pair of bronze daggers so that I "don't kill it too fast"


Men you should think carefully about stay in this LS or say gtfo, in my LS I start to come THF to events since update and never told me to hit the mob with low level weapons. I'm still a TH *****, hit the mob to land TH4 and retreat, but now when the "full attack" order is given instead stay in a corner watching the movie the want me to melee also.

Shamaya wrote:
They might as well have every melee use level 1 weapons at that rate, unless you're the only melee on it.


I had a vision of a THF totally naked fighting a mob with 17 mages healing him... I pray it never happend...
#49 Jan 07 2011 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
34 posts
Does treasure hunter work in abyssea? for...

nm pop items?
seals?
gear from nms?
etc?

because i have seen the additional effect proc on certain mobs, and nms. i'm just wondering because my ls keeps saying no it doesn't on anything. where as other people do say it does.
#50 Jan 07 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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It does, but not as much !! weakness does inside abyssea.
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