THF TH after update > melee in thf knifeFollow

Pretty much ends the ago old debate of TH4 vs TH2+2.

The results from the procs deffititly put armlets and knife as equal in effect to the traits.

Going to have definite answers to so many questions real soon.

Can we really take them off hands and knife after first hit and the numbers go 5,6,7, or will it be 3,4,5?
Will 2 thief fighting same mob mean both can cause number to increase?



Edited, Dec 7th 2010 2:15am by Everydamnnameistaken

Also, I do feel that TH trait and TH+1 were quite different pre-update. We've had large enough sample sizes (within the thousands) to establish that it was vastly more probable that they were not equivalent.

I simply feel that they changed the TH mechanic in this update. And as someone said in another thread, it is possible that each increase in TH level offers smaller gains than the last.

This also gives us a chance to find out if Atma of Dread stacks with THF TH.

Someone on BG tested TH atma. It does stack with TH. Very gay. Was planning on just telling people I had TH atma when I really had RR. Can't do that now because they will all be expecting first proc to be an 8.

TH8... wouldn't that be something insane like +400% to drop rate?

It doesn't end the debate on TH4 vs TH2+2 at all. It could just as easily be shown that way in the log for convenience, and still have them be very different in the actual implementation. Just because TH2+1 and TH3 would both show up the same in the message doesn't mean they're actually accomplishing the same thing.

It might be possible. I saw a few occurances of this in dynamis tonight. Ie I raised it to 5 and another THF raised it to 6. IS possible log displaying incorrectly but it happend a few times. Would need to test it to be sure.

It'll be interesting to see what the max level ends up capping out at and if multiple thieves can both raise treasure hunter together. I won't get a chance to play until tonight but I'm going to reserve judgment on my opinion until more info is collected. I also feel that before the update TH 2 +2 was not the same as the concept of TH4, but I want to see what kind of results we end up getting on mobs that matter with X level of TH versus Y amount. Now that we'll be level 90 old HMN's will be crazily easy so I'll be interested in seeing what kind of drops people end up getting from higher tier values versus those they've been accustomed to. The version update just happened so we'll see how this changes opinions after getting to experience it for a while.

I never got a boost after a TH+ ranged attack, not even once. I thought this was because TH6 from ranged was higher than TH3 with usual tp set (like other debuffs work). Maybe i was unlucky then and if others start getting these results i suppose there is hope for us after all lol.



Following your example this is how it happened to me: You engage normally, starting with +3. You get a proc, go to +4. You equip the armlets, then go to +5 and +6. The problem was that to reach +5 and +6 we need to melee with armlets the whole time. If we could ranged attack will full TH+ gear, placing a base of 6 at a mob, it would be much better if we could boost it to 7 and 8 with dps tp gear.

It is also possible that I can proc twice on a triple attack but doesn't show both in the log. I would occasionally proc a 6 instead of a 5 on the first hit and I noticed that each time was a multi attack.

Edited, Dec 7th 2010 6:34pm by Lobivopis

Actually it's quite the opposite. This update is a blessing IMO. I've gotten a chance to test this out a bit and what I've discovered is favorable.



The answer to this is a resounding YES. My test was basic but effective.

NOTE: I tested this after logging in for the first time at level 85. I do not have treasure hunter 3 yet so my base level with no items is TH2 and I have TH4 with armlets and TK. I do not yet own my af3 feet.

The Test: I ran out to Misereaux Coast without any TH gear and sneak attacked a few megalobugards and recieved the text message "The Megalobugard's Treasure Hunter effect raises to level 3". Afterwards I equipped my assassin's armlets and mugged a megalobugard then UNEQUIPPED my assassin's armlets shot him with a sleep bolt and swapped into my homam hands and sneak attacked him. The resulting message was "The Megalobugard's Treasure Hunter effect raises to level 4". For the final test I equipped my thief knife (offhand) and my AA mainhand and shot a megalobugard with a sleep bolt and then unequipped everything and performed a sneak attack naked. The message read "The Megalobugard's Treasure Hunter effect raises to level 5". In both tests I did not receive a treasure hunter message upon making first contact and the only actions I performed were either regular melee or a ranged attack to sleep the beast. The first Treasure hunter message I got included every TH item I used up to that point at a point in time where I had NO treasure hunter equipment active.

CONCLUSION: The evidence is 100% that upon hitting a mob the highest level of treasure is applied immediately (including weapon/armor) and once that level is applied it will not diminish even if you remove your TH + armor and thief's knife. In other words we only need to equip the thief's knife at the very start of a NM battle for the very first hit and can then swap to a USEFUL offhand dagger and ignore TH armor the rest of the fight.

There is no need to fulltime the TK in an NM fight. The only events where you would still want to fulltime the TK are events where you would be doing so anyway (dynamis and salvage), but there are only a few select examples where scrub mobs have important drops (such as farming water in sky to pop Olla Grande), and aside from that it's not a big deal. I've raised my treasure hunter effectiveness to level 5 three times on a megalobugard and gotten nothing at all (they always were stingy) so the overall use still lies on Nms. And we only need the TK for a split second for it to serve its purpose, so fulltiming it is unnecessary. That knowledge is a damn blessing if I ever knew of one.

Edited, Dec 7th 2010 9:45pm by Melphina

You CAN!!! I just tested it ... again (somehow screwed it up the first time.... dunno wtf i did)

I engaged a mob naked and did not get a TH proc in the chatlog. After that I equipped my Thief's Knife and Assassin's Armlets for one attack round then took them off again and continued to melee (also without a chatlog message). Since my H2H skill is low I got a chance to witness a naturally occurring proc and started at level 5!! That means that the TK and AA were included even though I had them on for only one round mid fight. Treasure hunter items can be applied at any time during the battle, and the moment they are applied they stay applied until the mob either goes red or dies.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:32am by Melphina

In fact, I just did this.

I engaged with no TH gear at on, hit the mob.

Then I put on TK + AA. First TH proc was TH5.

So yes. Not starting a fight with TH on can waste procs, but it doesn't fix the mobs base value at TH2(3).

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:10am by LafingCat

This is great findings. Could you please test it with the TH atma as well? This could show if it stacks or not.

Fun fact i am not sure has been mentioned yet.

Fighting abyssea altepa NM with LS yesterday. I engaged and was fighting (Thf 86) with TH4 on. I got it to proc up to 5. I then died as I was tanking and ichi was being stupid xD Got a raise. Did a SA (with TH4 gear on) and proc TH up to 6. Death has ZERO effect on TH. Can die all you want and it wont reset. I later got a 7 to proc.

In other words I:
Proced TH+5 on mob.
Died
Raised
Proced to +6

Just confirming that TH is not effected by thf death (which SE stated ages ago, but many still doubt).

Also, with TH4 gear, I got it to proc up to TH7 on that mob. I dont know what the 'cap' is, but It is at least +3 (was lv 86 with TH4).

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 12:38pm by Banalaty

So many myths being busted!

Time to log in and eat a lucky egg!

I've seen this too in dynamis the other night.

inb4 nothing but THF melees!!! 5x THF using GH atma for AGL boost and rotating perma conspirator to proc max TH.

You could bring a WAR and a NIN for !! WS too I guess XD

UFO's would probably be a good test subject if you wanted to melee something for a looooong time.

Yes, *if* there is a cap, I don't think it goes up with more THFs, but I'm unconvinced there's a cap. Regardless, since fights don't last indefinitely, having more thfs will get your more TH/time and thus more TH per fight. (As it took me like 20min to get to TH9 with a single thf, and I can't really think of any 20+ minute melee fights.)

Lol i can see it now.

LS chat:
<LSLeader>All right soldiers! Brds Soul voice!....Now SWAP!....Cors blitzer roll! Mages haste the melee! Dncs get your haste samba on! Prep feint!
<Late member> Oh what are you guys doing tonight? Sounds like a zerg.
<LSLeader> Nope. Were just putting TH on kirin with every thf in the LS.

If someone still doubt if equip TH gear will grant any bonus once we are already over this TH level by the procs it won't happend. Today I up TH to 5 w/o TH gear, equip the gear then (TH4), and then TH up to 6. So once we reach the same TH with procs than our gears give to us equip the gear does nothing... well yes, lose your tp.

Yesterday in Abyssea - La Theine I was able to level TH to 7 in a VNM T2, only drops a piece of wood while the previous VNM with less TH on it drop at least the cape... Don't thing put TH10 in a mob will ensure the drop.

And to finish with this spam of prolly useless info just let you know guys that campaign maybe is the best place to test TH, mobs have a lot of hp. I was able today to level it to 6 starting with 2, if you use a low damage weapon and start from TH4 or 6 u have plenty of time to see if up to 10 or no.

I just got a sense of deja vu when I hit reply to say "Your LS is stupid". I think I have said it before, so ill say it again. Your LS is stupid. Good god no wonder your so emo about thf.

I get the whole "Max effectiveness at all times! Mein fuhrer!" attitude. But at some point going so far just isnt fun which is the whole point to play this game. If they really want to make sure to proc TH 8 instead of 7, tell them to go level thf and single wield an Mkris so you can use the damn relic you worked for, otherwise they can shove it.

To add:

Will this make it less attractive to have people zerg down NMs? The more time it takes to kill the mob, the longer the time the THF gets to build the TH effectiveness.....

Men you should think carefully about stay in this LS or say gtfo, in my LS I start to come THF to events since update and never told me to hit the mob with low level weapons. I'm still a TH whore, hit the mob to land TH4 and retreat, but now when the "full attack" order is given instead stay in a corner watching the movie the want me to melee also.



I had a vision of a THF totally naked fighting a mob with 17 mages healing him... I pray it never happend...

It does, but not as much !! weakness does inside abyssea.