Rudra's StormFollow

As far as I know nobody has a completed Twashtar or Daka +1 for that matter.

The only emperian that is completed is Masamune GK which is a lot more easy to complete because of the relatively easy NM path. The word goes that Masamune is better then Amano. But I would take that with a gain of salt.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/72572-Completed-Relic-Mythic-weapons-list/page436

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 4:56pm by Breaze

Very good. Reason i'm so interested is Thief is the only real job I have that an Empyrean Weapon Skill would be used on, my WAR doesn't use Gaxe, PLD has Atonement, and pup has Stringing Pummel.

Sad thing is, I haven't even seen a Thief with the High DMG dagger at all on my server, finding a Twash or Dak is going to be a challenge

I've always been a Ridill war and it's merits and gear are all centered around a Multihit spampage build, so if I was to go after the Empyrean Gaxe i'd need to overhaul my setups and merits.

Please lets not discuss this in this thread it's for Rudra's Storm i've put in research into the setup and stuff is all good w. I did see one person today shouting for Feurenuke for Dagger, I wrote their name down and i'll keep an eye on them every now and then see if I can see a dagger over here.

Well might be making progress much faster from now on. Buddy and I were talking about possible low-man strats for WOE. Unfortunately i got delayed and missed our 1st attempt. But he went ahead and went without me xD Report was that its doable (was party of 6), but pulls were bad and they need a better puller/kiter/sac-puller dude (that would be me :P)

If this ends up working out well, ill post our strats and most certainly post about daka+1 once i get 30 coins (already have the next trial 20+ crests sitting around so the following trial is no problemo).

I just wish daka was a little faster. All these molasses delay magian daggers make me sad panda. I jsut hope this new WS is powerful enough to warrent using it.
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Moving on to the WS, my speculation is that it will kick REDICULOUS ass. Reasoning being the text.

"Deals triple damage and weighs target down. Damage varies with TP. Twashtar: Aftermath."

The exact wording of "Deals double/triple/quadruple damage" is only used a few times.

There are two possibilities that seem logical to me based on previous precident and what we know.

A: Viperbite/Mandalic Stab 2.0:
Reasoning: Viper bite text "Deals double damage and Poisons target"
Same wording, just an atk multiplier. VB text has been notoriously misleading as it is an atk boost not litterally 2x damage via FTP or anything. This would be pretty lame i feel unless it has JAWSOME ftp/mods which we have no word on.

B: Slugshot......for dagger
Reasoning: Slug/winder text "Delivers an inaccurate attack that deals quadruple damage"
The interesting part about this is that slug 'deals quadruple damage' but has a 5.0 FTP. I dont know if thats a bad translation that means PLUS quadruple damage (1+4=5.0 FTP) that is intended or just a typo of quad instead of quint.

Apply slugwinder to Rudra's storm and you get a potential FOUR.0 FTP following the same rules. Even if its only 3.0, that is still the same as mercy stroke! If it has ANY respectable mods and follows this definition of "Deals Xtimes damage" this WS will be making us all drool like infants.

Things it most likely ISNT:
Multi hit. 'Deals Xtimes damage' has never meant 'hit X times'. Those are always listed as 'Delivers a Xfold attack'

Why I think it is 3-4FTP and not Atk bonus (via Viper bite description):
All the empyrean WS I ahve looked at so far are identical in "Deals double/triple damage + add effect" and would imply that this description would be universal among all these new WS. In particular, the drg one makes me more confidant:
"Delivers a triple damage attack that ignores target's defense." besides the fact that it sounds like a super wheeling on steroids, its add effect of ignores target def is what catches me here.

Stringing 3 logical (i feel) assumptions together:
1: All the new WS work in the same manner as they have the same descriptive text regarding deals double/triple damage
Deals double damage.
2: Previous descriptions with identical wordings mean either monsterous FTP(slugwinder) or Atk multiplier(Viper Bite)
3: Drg one ignores Def. It doesnt make much sense to have WS that BOTH has an atk mod (viper bite text) AND ignores Def.

So the Drg WS (in my mind) makes it highly unlikely that the 'Deals double/triple' description means atk boost. As they are likely all the same, that would mean all these new WS are similar to old relic WS with very high FTP mods. (possibly higher if it follows the wierd slugwinder description).

Maybe Im reading to much into this, but I have rather high expectations for both thf and drg WS.
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All that said....I am VERY hyped about trying this bad boy out combined with trying a low man boss run in WOE last night that went ok-ish and can be improved on, anticipation is quickly growing for me. (That and to get that stupid kartika out of my Safe as I have had that thing on this stage for like 5 months xD)



Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:05pm by Banalaty

Sigh. Drop it.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=4&mid=1280403710149271639&page=1

Thank you for that Benalaty

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 7:46pm by MrDarKknight

Yeah it really looks like SE is serious about retiring the relics and mythics.

If they are going to make Relics obsolete they should just phase them out instead of leading us on with "kill (insert ridiculous number of mobs here) with WS" every @#%^ing update. They should have just left them at 75 and let us know that the empyrean weapons are what we should be working on instead of tricking us into wasting so much time on that magian bullsh*t.



Edited, Sep 28th 2010 9:42am by Lobivopis

The updated relics and mythics are still the best weapons out there, and even if the empyrean weapons surpass them (which they probably will) Mandau and Vajra will never be "obsolete". Mandau and Vajra each take a tremendous amount of energy to upgrade and I wouldn't be happy if I had a relic and it suddenly became inferior to an item people could get in a day or two. Allowing Relics and Mythics to stay in the upper tier through Magians suits me just fine. We all know how powerful the Twashter is and what its potential could be at 99, so it's individual preference for the relic/mythic crowd on whether they want to pursue the empyrean outright or keep the originals up to date. I don't think s-e will ever let Mandau or Vajra be overtaken by anything other than the Twashter, so even if they aren't the perfect number 1 they're a huge step up from anything else if you keep them up to date. Level 85 Mandau is D 46, delay 176, attack + 30, "Mercy Stroke", aftermath == Critical hit rate increase, and can proc triple damage of the now inherently higher base damage plus the poison proc (lolpoison). Kila +1 and Rapidus Sax and Auric etc are good but nowhere near THAT good, and I've no doubt they nor any other non relic/mythic quest weapon ever will be.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 4:05pm by Melphina

They need to remove the ridiculous constraint of relics and mythics not working offhand.

Wow just wow at Daka+1. I just saw the dagger in action and did a WoE run with Ejiboo.

Setup:
thf/dnc Eji - Daka+1/thunder kila+1
thf/nin Breaze - Vajra(lv85)/Sax
whm/rdm

I am just going to show you some pic's to start:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/evisvsRS1.png
Unstacked RS is crap just like mandy stab and Mercy stroke. You need to stack RS with SA TA to get the most out of it.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/MSvsRS1.png
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/MSvsRS2.png
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/MSvsRS3.png
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/MSvsRS4.png
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/MSvsRS5.png
As you can see my Mandy Stab is ahead of RS in most of the pics. RS comes out on top one time. We did around 20+ weaponskills each during this run. And the general picture was that Vajra was slightly ahead in ws damage compared to Daka+1 each time. Just like you see in the pic's. Eji had a parse running and he could confirm my 'eyeball' numbers.

Keep in mind my gear is much better then Eji's. He is lacking a few items. His gear is decent but not super. You can check his gear on: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Leviathan/Ejiboo.
We both used meat food. Me bison steak. Eji Yellow curry bun. In ws gear I had around 40 attack more then Eji. I forgot to write down numbers sorry for that.

RS has very nice mods. RaenRyong already showed you that. But RS + RS makes dark! Exactly like Mercy + Mercy makes dark. RS + mandy stab = fusion. RS has an ice water property this puts it in the distortion box.

And on top of all this goodness RS has an additional effect of gravity which gives the mob a weighed down effect and -10 evasion. Tested and confirmed on abysea mobs with a simple evasion check. Eji told me this effect procs fairly often 80%ish on normal mobs. Zero times in WoE.

Eji did WoE with a group of 8 ppl for 2 weeks and got clears. He did get a bit lucky because they all let him lot the coins. Lets say a normal player can do this in 3 months easy. You could even pay groups to let you lot the coins. On top of which you can do WoE every game-day!

Yes, I was out-tping and out-wsing Eji with my setup but this had a lot to do with gear and food. I like to parse again against Eji when he has some better items. Then you will see it will be much closer.

Conclusion:
My point here is to show how competitive Daka+1 is. For only a fraction of the effort you have to put in for Vajra/Mandau you can get a great dagger. The only hard part is getting the 30 coins from WoE. Which you can leech lot at this point if you wanted to. SE made the lotting rules very liberal. So any casual player who wants this dagger can get it in a reasonable amount of time.

Just imagine how good twashstar will be.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 3:09am by Breaze

Not to be rude or anything, but my Mandau is only 40 base D and I am pulling far far higher numbers than rudra's consistently. The rudras numbers are arround my average Evis unstacked. It seems to me that this weaponskill is nothing like Fudo. Fudo seemed to completely rape, this seems highly replaceable by Mandalic, Mercy, and tbh even Evisc from well gear'd people.

Secondly the 4ftp is very very nice, but 50% dex mod is very weak compaired to a 60% str mod which allows you to add to fstr at the same time.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 12:50am by Mirax

Yeah that's about what I got. My numbers come out a tad bit (70ish) higher due to tathlum which I plug in at a 5% increase even though Ive only done about 200 trials with it. And 156 str with the same 123 dex.

Editing this post too.

"Assuming Alpha is now 0.85". Why would you assume alpha rises? Alpha decreases as level increases. Why the sudden jump up .2 I would think it would go down by .2. Not that this causes any real disparity in numbers seeings as how .2 of xx% of a mod is going to be not much.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 12:42am by Mirax

This puzzled me too, but reportedly it did actually increase.



I don't know; DEX mod really allows you to capitalise on the Sneak Attack bonus, and fSTR caps quite early on daggers (one could argue with one of the better Atma, it's going to pretty much be capped almost from base STR+enhancement/atma alone).



I'm almost positive it's 4. At the very least, it's above 3. Putting in fTP = 3 in the results in that thread yields you a ridiculous unprecedented DEX mod of ~90%. Putting in fTP = 4 gives you a much more likely (in my opinion) 40~50% DEX.

EDIT:



Using my rough weaponskill gear of 138 DEX,

((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP + DEX) * pdif

((45 + 13 + [presume 50% DEX]floor(floor(138 * 0.5) * 0.85)) * 4 + 138) * 3.075 (I know pdif only does 2 decimal places but the middle value of it between 3.00 and 3.15 is 3.075);

= ((45 + 13 + 58) * 4 + 138) * 3.075
= 1851(.15)

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 10:17am by RaenRyong

Until you actually go out and try it on a rabbit that's just guessing.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 8:23pm by Lobivopis

I SO want them to do that now. That would be funny as hell!!

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 11:28pm by Melphina

I just want the real life equivalent of aftermath: Ham. I assume it to involve waffle house.