Hopeful SpeculationFollow

As the name implies, we don't really know yet, BUT at the current rate the lv 99 Magian dagger should be ~Double Attack +15, and *praying* we do get DWII sometime soon, and with the new gear coming out 25% Haste cap should be fairly easy to reach. SO, my proposition is THF/WAR DW 2 base Double Attack 10% base Triple Attack 10% (merits) wearing:

HEAD: AF3+2 ACC +12 Haste +6 triple attack +3
BODY: Rap. Harness Haste +4 or ACP body DW+ or potentially something better post 85
HANDS: Homam atm Haste +3 but fairly sure something better will be out by then
lEGS: AF3 +2 Haste +5 DEX +7 Crit. Hit rate +4%
FEET: Homam? Haste +3 vs AF3 feet depending on set bonus (Homam would be wasted because of Haste cap)
NECK: Lets say Tiercel necklace Haste +1 for the sake of capping Haste easily
BACK: Aesir Mantle double attack +1% attack +8
WAIST: Speed Belt Haste +6 or better belts (not sure of the Haste +7 belt's name)
EARS: Brutal Dbl attack +5%/ Supp. DW 5%
RINGS: Raja's/ some ACC ring
AMMO: New DW boomerang

=
Haste + 25%
Triple attack +3 + set bonus = 13%+
Double attack + 6 +15 = 31%
DW Base 15% + 5 + boomerang = 20%+
Excluding other bonuses such as ACC DEX Crit etc

I know it's all speculation but this has been buzzing around in my head for a little while now, as I'm sure others have thought about it. Giving that we can potentially reach 20% or higher DW fairly easily (higher with ACP body) 1. Would subbing WAR be a viable option without sacrificing the extra DW? 2. Would the Double Attack dagger be worth it?

Neither questions can really be answered now and only time will tell, but it does get me to start thinking about it. If this plays out I can be pretty d@mn sure that even if its not the best possible setup given DW 3 from /NIN, this is most likely how I'm going to be doing THF/WAR. Just thought I'd bring up the topic to discuss.

Edited, Sep 10th 2010 3:53am by Yopopoe

Edited, Sep 10th 2010 12:19pm by Yopopoe

If we indeed get DW2 by 99 as it seems to be planned, I think that /war will be stronger than /nin, but you really have to not die and not hold back in order to make it work. It'll be just as problematic as other /war jobs. DW3 (from 2) will give more than 10% more hits. D.A. from /war will give less than 10% more hits. From there, it's a question of which is better for your DPS, the differential in swing volume between extra D.W. over D.A.? Or Berserk + Aggressor + Attack Bonus?

Intuitively, I'd say that generally speaking it will be /war that will produce more damage, so long as it is possible to sustain the damage you take. In my opinion, this will usually not be the case. But there should be no shortage of instances where you can do it. So Thf/War will see increased usage from 83->89, and from whenever we get DW2 onward.

Just to note, while double attack+15 does seem like a lot, it is probably still going to be lackluster (we'll see). Remember that as you add double/triple attack in higher and higher quantities, you will see 'diminishing marginal utility' so to speak.
Thf/Nin with only 10% triple attack and 5% from brutal earring, if using a d.a.+15 dagger, would see a boost in swing vollume of about 9.7%, assuming d.a. procs before t.a. as we believe.

On the contrary, let's assume we use the AF3 in unison and get the triple attack+ boost, and let's say it's 5%. Thf/War would have 18% triple attack and 15% double attack. Marginal increase of a hypothetical +15 dagger from that would only be 155.2/145.6, or about 6.6%. 6.6% is a very small increase, deceptively small considering the dagger would say "such and such + 15". In order for it to be the best weapon to use, divide it's dmg/delay to get its dps, and multiply that by 1.066. If it is higher than your other options, use it. If not, then it's not worth it probably. Though I didn't consider WS stuff.

Also, tiercel neck aside of course, I'm not so sure about aesir mantle. Maybe it could have some use on mobs where your attack is capped, but generally there are going to be much better mantles. I understand the speed demon-age of maxing your attack volume is tempting though. It's going to be pretty ridiculous though with the new AF and DW though.

And let's not forget that unfortunately, these new heights of d.a. and t.a. also make the multiattack daggers sh*ttier.

I'm not a FFXI math guy, but from what I'm seeing, DA dagger would be about 6.6% increase to attack rounds? What would THF/WAR assuming DW II without the dagger be? Because depending on how much of a difference it makes, when comparing 6.6% to 10% from DWIII /NIN, Agressor, Attack Bonus, Warcry and Berserk could easily make up for a 3.4% loss in attacks.

Without the dagger though, would the low delay weapons increase our DPS even more than the marginal 6.6% gain? Assuming either DA dagger mainhand (41/211) and blau offhand, vs's lower delay mainhand. I'm essentially just trying to determine if this will be useful for my own decision to go ahead and start the dagger and not feel like I wasted my time, but once again its all hypothetical speculation which makes me realize its pointless. X_x;

That's a difficult question, Yopopo. It's easy to show the marginal improvement by adding a single D.A. or T.A. piece. You only have 2 variables to consider: double attack, and triple attack. But to accurately answer your question, it would require a fully blown-out Thf/War vs Thf/Nin comparison, which I've done before and it takes pages to do accurately. Gotta pick a target mob or mob standard and compare its stats to the stats of your player, incorporating gear and trait differences. It's feasible but tiring. But unfortunately when you go into math involving mainhand/offhand weapons, sub jobs, or job vs job, it gets sticky because you have to make assumptions. Thief is one of the most difficult jobs to analyze thus, because you have to assume % variation between the use of TA+WS, SA+WS, and unstacked WS, as well as TP overflow.