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Petition for Dual Wield 3+ or more Follow

#1 Aug 28 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Hi I would like everyone that wants to have more then Dual Wield 1 as bad as I do and tired of not getting much of a increse in are DD to please send SE feedback about it here

https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?id=20&la=1&p=0&fo=41


I just think its worth a Shot if you guys want it you will take the 5 mins to fill this out

Im asking all the populer thf fourms to do this and hopeing for the best.

not saying this will work but im giveing it a try and im doing it because I love thf and i put so much into it i want it to be worth something more then just the guy with th4.
#2 Aug 28 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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I sent something in, but I'm not hopeful. Square-Enix never directly responds to the playerbase unless they're getting international negative attention (Pandaemonium Warden, Surplus EXP).
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#3cyrii, Posted: Aug 28 2010 at 1:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) op is spamming this post on all major forums, what a failure.
#4 Aug 28 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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The jobs listed below will each welcome an existing trait to their ******* upon reaching the specified level, beyond which the degree of mastery will increase in stages.
#5TheBarrister, Posted: Aug 28 2010 at 5:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I decline. Higher tiers of dual-wield aren't going to change the community mind because it won't be drastic enough.
#6 Aug 28 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah, the main reason i quit was because it really made me mad that SE didn't give every job the same traits, armor, abilities, etc.
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#7 Aug 29 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Default
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Much as I'd like DW IV, I can see why they (probably) didn't add it to us. Just looking at some obtainable weapons:

Mnk: taipan fangs: dmg+22 delay +61. 58x2 dmg weapon (116) 361 delay. DPS (of weapons): 19.3.

Thf (hypothetical DWIV) Auric+kila: Dmg 77 delay 222.8. DPS (of weapons): 20.7. (suppa, auric, +3% dual wield body)

Granted mnks will be getting more martial arts traits, but as of now with dw IV our DPS would be higher than the average mnk.

Now, I'd *really* love that, sure. Mnk DoT on my thief (but then, I would have less use for my mnk) I can just see why SE might find it unfair.

Dnc though, they can have that mnk DoT (they have the exact same daggers used in this example, and an extra 5% duel wield necklace)

Can you feel my rage yet, SE?

Edit: fail adding. 58x2 is 116. Must have been mentally adding str from the weapon to base D, but then ignored it on the dagger example.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 6:01pm by Wolfhart
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#8 Aug 29 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Online petitions from socks always work out so well.
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#9 Aug 29 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Online petitions from socks always work out so well. never, ever work


Edited, Aug 29th 2010 8:53pm by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#10 Aug 29 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
THF will get Dual Wield III.



At level 90.



With /NIN45.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 7:24pm by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus
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#11 Aug 30 2010 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
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The jobs listed below will each welcome an existing trait to their ******* upon reaching the specified level, beyond which the degree of mastery will increase in stages.


Level 83 being such a weird number for a trait, maybe we'll get DW II at 84 and DWIII at 85 ? A THF can dream !
#12 Aug 30 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I am hoping for the best, but all it will make us is faster swinging TH whores.
#13 Aug 31 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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To be fair, I'd like to say that the improvement from /nin DW3 alone would balance things out pretty well. It's more valuable than Sekkanoki and the other stuff that other jobs are getting. Is it enough? Well for me it is, I have confidence in my thief. But DW3 alone won't be enough if we're comparing wal-mart AH thieves to wal-mart 2h's, though. But while DW4 + /war would certainly make wal-mart thieves ridiculously strong IMO, it would make the really good thieves a bit overpowered to be honest.. After all the years of kicks in the balls, I hate to say that, but it's kinda true.

Not that I'd complain and tell them to change it if they made my job OP. I'd love it and laugh in people's faces. For that reason I'll fill out the petition lol, even tho it is a lolpetition. But in defense of such petitions, there was one time recently where it did work, actually. Not anything to do with job balance though. A dude's g/f dropped his blackbelt and couldn't get it back. GM's told him they could do nothing, even after verifying his black belt quest title. Buncha people from BG petitioned it, and a couple days later the dude got his belt. DK if that offers some spark of hope.
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#14 Aug 31 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Default
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Shamaya wrote:
To be fair, I'd like to say that the improvement from /nin DW3 alone would balance things out pretty well. It's more valuable than Sekkanoki and the other stuff that other jobs are getting. Is it enough? Well for me it is, I have confidence in my thief. But DW3 alone won't be enough if we're comparing wal-mart AH thieves to wal-mart 2h's, though.


Or when comparing a top of the line Thief to a top of the line 2handed DD on anything higher than Very Toughs. Nor is our current lack of native Dual Wield what is preventing us from being invited over 7 other DD jobs. (Nor is DW the utility we need to add more to endgame, which is where the entire game is right now.) Hey but I guess in the eyes of this forum, balancing an unbalanced equation is best achieved by adding the same number to both sides...


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#15 Aug 31 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or when comparing a top of the line Thief to a top of the line 2handed DD on anything higher than Very Toughs. Nor is our current lack of native Dual Wield what is preventing us from being invited over 7 other DD jobs. (Nor is DW the utility we need to add more to endgame, which is where the entire game is right now.) Hey but I guess in the eyes of this forum, balancing an unbalanced equation is best achieved by adding the same number to both sides...


Its not that DW will magically make us gods at well....gods. It OPENS our sub job options. Right now if we want def, we /nin. If we want offense we /nin because DW rivals DA+zerk etc. Come lv 90 we are forever bound to /nin. And thus we are basically trying to compare Thf/nin vs the world. If you give thf/nin better DD tools, you now have the most evasive job in the game back up by shadows beating the **** outta everything. Yes there is something wrong with that. Just like if Sam/Nin could DD like a rng, Zerk/DA with /war, tank /nin, 25% haste it up /drg, and heal itself /dnc. That would also be OP. But its not because they have to change subs to do all that stuff. Thf CANT change subs. Our best DD subis also our best defensive sub.

DW3+ would open sub jobs. We could put on the hurt /war with DW3+ on an HNM. We could /nin for def. We could /rng and /ra. We could /drg for an ideal haste build and jumps/hate loss. We can /dnc/ for support and/or easy ****. We could even /sam and still be effective moreso than now. **** we could see some interesting uses from /cor honestly and a return or Thf/Drk for zergs with an extra ~38-43% increase to attack speed over now. These are all significant boosts to specific situations we can cater towards far better than we can now. Currently the tradeoffs are far to skewed to make use of all the great tools we could. We can /war to gain offense....but sacrifice offense.....and defense. Now why the **** would we ever do that? We can sacrifice offense and defense for STP/Sekka/Med...thats stupid. And on down the line. /nin is far to potent compared to every other sub to the point that we cant justify using them.

Right now, any boost of any other sub is completely and dominantly overshadowed by how **** effective DW is. The combo of huge DD boost and best defense bar none binds us to /nin. One way to "balance" thf is by opening up subs without crippling BOTH our defense (Shadows) and offense (DW). Native DW would do that. Its not that DW would make us all cool and everyone would want a thf. Its that DW cuts our ties to /nin as best def and offense and gives us LOTS of new options/tools. Look at just how friggin versatile Sam is because of its ability to use ANY sub job. /drg, /war, /nin, /dnc, /rng to name a few can augment sam to fit niche roles in a variety of situations. We talk about versatility being a premier trait of thf, imagine if we could use more than 1 **** sub job.

But alas, we are forever destined not to be a thf, but a thf/nin.
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#16 Aug 31 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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Thats why im alitle upset about getting DW1. its no pointin haveing it if /nin is still better its like nothing changed at all.
#17 Aug 31 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Banalaty wrote:
We could put on the hurt /war with DW3+ on an HNM.


Oh like every 2 hander and Ranger can already?

I haven't seen a Thief show up in the top 5 spot ever on a parse of HNM, and we do parse our kills. The ones that are too long to parse, well guess how much melee are engaging on that? Have you really lost your marbles or simply arguing theorycrafting?

Banalaty wrote:


We could /nin for def. We could /rng and /ra. We could /drg for an ideal haste build and jumps/hate loss. We can /dnc/ for support and/or easy sh*t. We could even /sam and still be effective moreso than now. **** we could see some interesting uses from /cor honestly and a return or Thf/Drk for zergs with an extra ~38-43% increase to attack speed over now. These are all significant boosts to specific situations we can cater towards far better than we can now. Currently the tradeoffs are far to skewed to make use of all the great tools we could. We can /war to gain offense....but sacrifice offense.....and defense. Now why the **** would we ever do that? We can sacrifice offense and defense for STP/Sekka/Med...thats stupid. And on down the line. /nin is far to potent compared to every other sub to the point that we cant justify using them.

Right now, any boost of any other sub is completely and dominantly overshadowed by how **** effective DW is. The combo of huge DD boost and best defense bar none binds us to /nin. One way to "balance" thf is by opening up subs without crippling BOTH our defense (Shadows) and offense (DW). Native DW would do that. Its not that DW would make us all cool and everyone would want a thf. Its that DW cuts our ties to /nin as best def and offense and gives us LOTS of new options/tools. Look at just how friggin versatile Sam is because of its ability to use ANY sub job. /drg, /war, /nin, /dnc, /rng to name a few can augment sam to fit niche roles in a variety of situations. We talk about versatility being a premier trait of thf, imagine if we could use more than 1 **** sub job.

But alas, we are forever destined not to be a thf, but a thf/nin.


I don't disagree with these points. But you all need to ask yourself one question:


If you could get just one thing from Square Enix to balance out the equation of our job right now, would changes to dual-wield be it?

I'd rather have at least 5 or 6 other areas of adjustment beyond higher tiers of dual-wield.
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#18 Aug 31 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
If you could get just one thing from Square Enix to balance out the equation of our job right now, would changes to dual-wield be it?


It would be a start. But there is more than one area that THF needs DD adjustment imo.

Quote:

I'd rather have at least 5 or 6 other areas of adjustment beyond higher tiers of dual-wield.


I don't disagree with that either. I think the negative sentiment here is that they said they were giving us something that we know to be a powerful trait, only to give something nearly useless. Less than Sub job level DW by 99 is a joke.

I'm not so much concerned about THF getting the dual wield trait or not. I am concerned with the fact that THF does need some useful changes, and we get useles garbage like DWI at 83. You can't blame people for being unhappy about that.

I don't know why, but I'm holding out a bit of hope left over for the other job adjustments they haven't announced yet.

Edited, Aug 31st 2010 9:46pm by ThiefKiller
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#19 Sep 01 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm happy with my tp burn damage. S-E doesn't need to do anything for us there. The problem is that DW1 doesn't help me where I need assistance the most. DW 3 or 4 would have been a big upgrade in the HNM department whereas DW I thf/war is almost the same as dagger/shield thf/war. Last update S-E gave dancer DW IV and then after dangling dual wield in front of our faces this update they give us DW 1 instead. It feels like unequal treatment which is why people are bitter; it's a letdown. Thief is a great job and I love it to death but it needs help to cope with the change in player mentality over how we handle high end mobs and none of the updates we've gotten have offered a solution. Even if I had dual wield IV or III naturally I'd still sub /nin when I was tp burning just for utsusemi (like many monks do now). But I'd at least have a better solution to high end mobs where /war is viable to begin with. The problem is that while I'm a major TP burn DD I'm nearly crippled at HNM. The only real damage I get off is my SA and TA plus my infrequent shark bites and that isn't enough. The 2 handed jobs are so much stronger that they destroy me thus leaving me on the sidelines.

Since any 90 job/45 thief will get TH2 next update I'm expecting our TH 3 trait in December. Unfortunately TH3 still won't solve my problem being stuck on the sidelines, it'll only maintain my current status of "TH *****". Now I like the addition of native TH3. Contrary to what the board may imply I enjoy having TH II +2 and I love my drop rate. But we should expect TH3 just like RDM should expect refresh 2. If you swap me into a fight at 5% HP I can hit the mob once and fulfill my task for the whole fight (this can be done by a naked mule equally well). It's not fun to stand on the sidelines and WATCH your linkshell fight an epic battle only to hit it a few times and be done. Unfortunately I don't have enough other redeeming qualities to warrant fighting the mob more so that's what often happens. Because of this my great blessing is also my greatest curse; taking me out of all the action and by consequence, all the fun. Hate control is well and good but it's largely irrelevant at HNM when paladin's can cap their hate. Truthfully collaborater/accomplice serve me better when I'm tp burning than they do when I'm fighting a HNM. Treasure hunter IS a part of my job and I wouldn't ever want to give it up, but right now it's the only thing people want me for against high level NM's and I want to actually FIGHT the mob rather than just watch.

Summarizing that I like having treasure hunter and I think thief is an awesome job. A well played thief is always worthy of a DD spot in a burn. Unfortunately it's no fun at all in the HNM department because my only role people REALLY care about is treasure hunter and I can do that without even fighting. Unfortunately the updates s-e has given me have done nothing to change that. I'll get DW III from /nin at 90 so I don't need anything more to tp burn with (and I'd be /nin then even if I had a higher DW trait myself), but thief/war with dual wield I is not a very big change from thf/war with dagger/shield thus a dual wield as weak as this is useless to me.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 10:38am by Melphina
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#20 Sep 01 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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I hope if SE hears what the good thf have to say they will change what there doing.
#21 Sep 01 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Melphina wrote:
Last update S-E gave dancer DW IV and then after dangling dual wield in front of our faces this update they give us DW 1 instead. It feels like unequal treatment which is why people are bitter; it's a letdown.


I completely agree. I didn't post on this because it simply didn't surprise me that SE would do this to Thief.

Mistress Melphina wrote:

I'm happy with my tp burn damage and I don't think s-e needs to do anything for us in that department.


Agreed, although TP burns aren't really what they used to be. Beating on a mob for 10seconds in Abyssea isn't equivalent to 40 second engagements (or more) on Greater Colibri. Part of where we used to shine was spike damage in the form of SA+WS, TA+WS, SATA+WS, SA, TA, WS separated, etc. It's very hard to land most of those besides TA and WS separated, and I believe this is an area SE could adjust and should adjust (for Thief main job only).

Mistress Melphina wrote:

DW 3 or 4 would have been a big upgrade in the HNM department whereas DW I thf/war is almost the same as dagger/shield thf/war.


I don't agree it's going to be as big of an upgrade as you think it is, and I do not agree that Dual-Wield is the area SE needs to focus on adjusting for balancing Thief in the HNM department at all. I think more utility is needed so that we have a unique place on HNM besides "hey you thief make sure you hit it at least once for TH but we could care less about your damage when there are decked out 2 handers here that trump you, or BLM, or SMN, or RNG...or GET OFF THE MOB OMG STOP FEEDING TP".




Mistress Melphina wrote:

Thief is a great job and I love it to death but it needs help to cope with the change in player mentality over how we handle high end mobs and none of the updates we've gotten have offered a solution. Even if I had dual wield IV or III naturally I'd still sub /nin when I was tp burning just for utsusemi (like many monks do now). But I'd at least have a better solution to high end mobs where /war is viable to begin with. Thief doesn't need any adjustments against tp burn mobs at all. The problem is that I'm a major TP burn DD but nearly crippled at HNM. SA and TA plus my infrequent shark bites don't cut it. The 2 handed jobs are so much stronger that they destroy me thus leaving me on the sidelines. Since any 90 job/45 thief will get TH2 next update I'm expecting our TH 3 trait in December. Unfortunately TH3 still won't solve my problem being stuck on the sidelines, it'll only maintain my current status of "TH *****". Now I like the addition of native TH3. Contrary to what the board may imply I enjoy having TH II +2 and I love my drop rate. But we should expect TH3 just like RDM should expect refresh 2. TH is my greatest curse as well as my great blessing. If you swap me into a fight at 5% HP I can hit the mob once and fulfill my task for the whole fight (this can be done by a naked mule equally well). It's not fun to stand on the sidelines and WATCH your linkshell fight an epic battle only to hit it a few times and be done. Unfortunately that's we're reduced to most times, so my great blessing also takes me out of all the action and by consequence, all the fun. Hate control is well and good but it's largely irrelevant at HNM when paladin's can cap their hate and my collaborater/accomplice serves me better when I'm tp burning than it does against a HNM because of this.

I like having treasure hunter and I think thief is an awesome job. A well played thief is always worthy of a DD spot in a burn. Unfortunately it's no fun at all in the HNM department because my only role people REALLY care about is treasure hunter and I can do that without even fighting. Unfortunately the updates s-e has given me have done nothing to change that. I'll get DW III from /nin at 90 so I don't need anything more to tp burn with (and I'd be /nin then even if I had a higher DW trait myself), but thief/war with dual wield I is not a very big change from thf/war with dagger/shield thus a dual wield as weak as this is useless to me.


Unfortunately this is the case and I have to agree with you. This has been my experience too. Even when it's a "bring the job you like" event, I still question why some people in my linkshell come Thief when we already have a thief and they also have a more useful job (Bard, Corsair, Dancer, Red Mage....<insert 10 more jobs>).

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#22 Sep 01 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Default
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I'm already on record with my objections to requests for THF DD enhancements, so I won't rehash it.

The one unqualified benefit of this change is: it allows THF to offhand TK with any SJ.
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#23 Sep 01 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, that is the 1st thing I thought of as well RVW, sad as it is. (way to sub default a completely neutral post just because RVW was devils advocate in an old thread. Sheesh. Intelligent representation from the other side of the table is always needed no matter the debate.) I just hope there is something changed so we dont have to use that POS dagger at lv 99. I remember the complaints about how it "sucked" for DD back before teh dagger update, or the interview that SE stated in plain english that you only have to stick TH once etc.

Lv99 that thing is going to be about as effective as a bee stinger. I keep trying to think of things that could be done to prevent us from having to use it and dealing with the swapping in/out of a retardedly bad dagger especially for shorter fights (farming etc). If they add a TK#2 later on, we would just be expected to DW them which just sucks more. There are only 2 things i can think of.

1. TK gets on magian trial for beefed up POWA. +damage, -delay, +stats etc to make it a reasonable DD dagger. (huge pain in the *** overall unless it also happens to be a GREAT dagger when its all done).

2. TK 2.0 is released later on and is an OK dagger designed for lv 99 AND it somehow shares a rare/ex type tag that prevents them from keeping both.

3. Nothing happens and we have to use that POS at lv 99 for everything. -_-

I would far prefer 2, but theres no real precedent for a new item preventing an old, non-rare/ex item from being kept/used unless they somehow tweak the JA so that the new dagger's +TH overrides or cancels the old TKs in some way. /shrug.

As for the rehashed debates, I think (at least the 2 of us from the last thread) have some understanding, we just disagree on player perception. Your point that only something extreme to the point of broken has sweeping effects on general perception and we dont want that to happen (nice for a day, bad for years) is true. Anything SE does will either flip flop the flavor of the month, or will go unnoticed by the general playerbase and we dont want to be flavor of the month. I fully agree with that. We cant have a "balanced" change that will impact the overall perception overnight.

I cant speak for the rest of the board, but i personally dont give a rats *** if people dont "think" im good at HNMs if I actually am good in that situation (in either damage and/or utility). I can fight my little battle for a place in a fight with my LS and people i hang with. But if we really DO suck at HNMs (damage and/or utility), then i cant really do much about it (like right now). I guess ive always just been a functional person. If it is functional, i really dont care if other people "believe" it or not. If something as a statement of fact works, their "belief" in it working is irrelevant from my perspective. I dont mind being a misunderstood class. I mind being a class that actually sucks in this situation (and i realize thf is not the only one in this boat).

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 4:06pm by Banalaty
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#24 Sep 01 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm already on record with my objections to requests for THF DD enhancements love of SE's pen0r,


ftfy

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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#25 Sep 01 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think thief is terribly broken against HNM's, it's just that the one fatal flaw is so large it cannot be overcome. By level 99 we should have dual wield II and I'd be OK with that for damage. Thief/war with dual wield II and berserk/aggressor won't stand toe to toe with the heavy hitters, but it's close enough for me to be satisfied. Dual wield is a start to fixing our handicap at HNM, but the biggest underlying issue is not our damage but our TP feed. If I was allowed to melee a HNM like the 2 handers are I could throw out some pretty nifty weaponskills alongside average/passable DoT. That would be enough for me. However THIS is the REAL problem problem I'm stuck with

Quote:
I don't agree it's going to be as big of an upgrade as you think it is, and I do not agree that Dual-Wield is the area SE needs to focus on adjusting for balancing Thief in the HNM department at all. I think more utility is needed so that we have a unique place on HNM besides "hey you thief make sure you hit it at least once for TH but we could care less about your damage when there are decked out 2 handers here that trump you, or BLM, or SMN, or RNG...or GET OFF THE MOB OMG STOP FEEDING TP".


As quoted on the wiki here
Quote:

Enemies gain TP in the following ways:

* When attacking a player, TP is calculated normally based on Delay. Most enemies have 240 Delay, and gain 6.4 TP per hit.
* When hit by a melee attack, enemies gain the attacker's Base TP + 3.
* When hit by a spell that does direct damage, enemies gain 10 TP.
* When hit by a physical Blue Magic spell, enemies gain 10 TP for every hit that connects.


THAT is the problem. My melee DoT strikes don't deal significant damage but they DO feed tp at an alarmingly fast rate. If a 2 hander hit a mob 5 times to tp to 100% the mob would have approximately 90-100% TP. The 2 handers get a 5 hit with sTP traits which don't interfere with the mob's tp gain thus it's almost a 1/1 ratio. However when I hit the mob I will feed approximately 2 more tp per swing than I get even with sTP gear and I'll take about 18 swings to hit 100%. That's an additional ~~40 tp fed to the mob beyond what a 2 hander would have fed while dealing about 30-50% the amount of actual damage to do it. It's inefficient and these bad boys pack a punch. Their tp attacks are DANGEROUS so I'm often forbidden from engaging for this reason.

Now I would have argued before that some job traits are defining characteristics of XYZ job so giving them to ABC job would be unfair, but s-e has broken that with the level increase. Sub job convert/refresh 1, dual wield IV on dancer and now DW 1 on thf and blu (via spells), old traits added to other jobs, etc etc. So I'm just going to say it. I want subtle blow, and I want a lot of it. The highest subtle blow trait is 25% and subtle blow caps at 50%. Another idea is a stance that Lobi has proposed in the past. I would be all for a stance to reduce our attack speed in exchange for significantly reducing the amount of tp fed to the mob (a reasonable attack speed reduction). This isn't game breaking because less attack speed is akin to adding slow, thus it would be a HNM stance only. THIS is the type of utility I think thief needs in order to be allowed more action at hnm. Even if it doesn't improve our damage if we aren't a threat to causing a wipe from our tp feed at least we may be allowed to fight the battle. There are many well geared thieves who could still put up reasonable numbers at HNM if we were only allowed to engage.

Summarizing that:
I think dual wield II (@99) is a good start to help fix thief at HNM and that thief is not THAT broken. However dual wield isn't enough, S-E needs to address the bigger underlying problem that we feed too much tp to warrant our DoT. If we had a significant amount of subtle blow or a stance that reduced our attack speed (reasonably) while significantly decreasing the amount of tp we feed to the mob (or both!!) it would be a really big step in the right direction. I am well geared; I CAN deal respectable damage if I have proper buffs but I will feed too much tp to make it worthwhile. If the only updates thief were to get from now until level 99 were Treasure Hunter 3, critical hit attack bonus increases, Dual wield II, and both a stance to trade speed for tp feed reduction and subtle blow V I'd be satisfied. I'll never be the ideal DD against a HNM and that's FINE. As long as I'm allowed to engage the mob I could still put up decent numbers and I'd have a lot more fun fighting alongside my colleagues. If it meant people would still joke about my damage but actually let me fight... well I could live with that.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 11:53pm by Melphina
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#26 Sep 02 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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7,094 posts
Banalaty wrote:
I keep trying to think of things that could be done to prevent us from having to use it and dealing with the swapping in/out of a retardedly bad dagger especially for shorter fights (farming etc). If they add a TK#2 later on, we would just be expected to DW them which just sucks more. There are only 2 things i can think of.

1. TK gets on magian trial for beefed up POWA. +damage, -delay, +stats etc to make it a reasonable DD dagger. (huge pain in the *** overall unless it also happens to be a GREAT dagger when its all done).

2. TK 2.0 is released later on and is an OK dagger designed for lv 99 AND it somehow shares a rare/ex type tag that prevents them from keeping both.

3. Nothing happens and we have to use that POS at lv 99 for everything. -_-

I would far prefer 2, but theres no real precedent for a new item preventing an old, non-rare/ex item from being kept/used unless they somehow tweak the JA so that the new dagger's +TH overrides or cancels the old TKs in some way. /shrug.

Bandit's Knife
(Dagger) All Races
DMG:42 DLY:194
Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter+1
Lv.94 THF

Latent effect is activated any time Thief's Knife is not equipped. (Of course, given the highly superstitious nature of the FFXI community, SE would need to spell this out explicitly in some sort of announcement.)

Quote:
As for the rehashed debates, I think (at least the 2 of us from the last thread) have some understanding, we just disagree on player perception. Your point that only something extreme to the point of broken has sweeping effects on general perception and we dont want that to happen (nice for a day, bad for years) is true.

That's not my point at all.

My point is that I see DD enhancements as a temporary solution and, therefore, a waste of time. I certainly agree that THF deserves enhancements; I just believe that they (the enhancements) should be implemented so that the net impact of them is not contingent on how much damage another job is capable of dealing. The easiest way to do that is to enhance non-DD-related aspects of the job.
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