Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

STR or DEX dagger? Follow

#1 Aug 25 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
First off, sorry if this is a repeated question. I went 7 or seven pages back and didn't see anything that argued which of the two were better...most where one vs. Thwaster or something else. Again, I'm sorry if this is a repeat and I missed the post.

My question is will +6 STR/+16 attack outperform +6 DEX on WS and TAWS?


#2 Aug 25 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
That depends on whether or not you have Mandau.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#3 Aug 25 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Default
5 posts
No, if I had a Mandau I wouldn't be wasting my time with one of these daggers.
#4 Aug 25 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
931 posts
Really depends on what your gears are. If you arent capped on accuracy and you are using a multi-hit WS, I would say DEX dagger for sure (without really needing to run numbers). Now, if you WS gear has capped accuracy, or you are using a single-hitter, I cant say for sure. Either way, hard to make a judgment call when you dont post any info.
____________________________
Ferrious 99BLU/99Thf/99Blm/99Pld/68Rdm
d(~.^)b <(Quetzalcoatl)
#5 Aug 25 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
I did actually post a bunch, but when I clicked post the internet quit responding. So when I reposted I just asked the question.

But between Homam and Aura gear I have a ****-ton of accuracy. I'm also 8/8 dagger merits and have a love torque. I don't know how to figure in if I'm capped Acc or not, but I usually don't have a problem hitting things.

I'm also 5/5 STR and am pretty DEX heavy with my WS build. So I was thinking some STR and attack wouldn't hurt. But I'd like to hear other people's opinions too.
#6 Aug 26 2010 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
6six6 wrote:
No, if I had a Mandau I wouldn't be wasting my time with one of these daggers.


The STR/ATT Kila is the best offhand dagger for Mandau actually.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#7 Aug 26 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,270 posts
Or the multi attack one >_> (yes str one will have fatter WS for epeen, but it is certainly not even in the same ball park on TP gain)

As for the OP, both have such different uses, its difficult for me to advocate one or the other. (why im actually doing both) If acc is uncapped enough to use most/all of the acc on the dex dagger, it wins. If acc isnt that low, str dagger wins. If your only going for a single one, the question is which of those to scenarios are you in most of the time on thf?
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#8 Aug 26 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
***
2,418 posts
From what I remember from previous threads discussing the +4 version of those daggers, the turning point was 90% acc. Higher than that, the STR dagger won by an increasing margin as acc goes up.
____________________________
Rank: Bastok 10, San d'Oria 10, Windurst 10
Completed: RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG, ACP, MKD, ASA
Profile
#9 Aug 26 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
**
813 posts
How about str/attk kila vs. def down 15% kila?

Personally I'm going to do:

1) Agi/Evasion
2) Dex/Accuracy dagger
3) str/attk or def down ?
4) Lowers accuracy vs. another agi/evasion ?
#10 Aug 26 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Banal, I'm actually working on the 2~3 Panzorium too. Seems like a nice toy to offhand in situations when I don't need to offhand TK.

And you'll have to forgive me, but I don't know how to calculate if my accuracy is capped or anything like that. All I know is that I have +45 Acc in my normal TP build, with +18 DEX, love torque, and 8/8 dagger skill. I don't know what that translates into, but I usually don't have a problem hitting things.
#11 Aug 26 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
Should have clarified, i meant the 1-2x dagger and about the offhand for a mandau. Though 1-2hit is also super **** for anyone else too for offhand and Id heartily reccomend it over the 1-3x version, but it is considerably harder to obtain so i cant blame people for not doing 1-2x ><.

For an idea, I read the other day that you need 436 acc to cap on abyssea mandies, seems reasonable but I cant be 100% sure of it until its talked about more.

I have 8/8 merits+love torque and have 64acc in gear, total of 94 dex and that puts me at 85% on mandies according to the 436 number (i have 416 total acc at lv 80 as a mithra thf/nin). Every 2 acc raises hit rate by 1%. 2dex gives you 1 acc. So i am 20 acc short of capping on mandies. Also this is using meat not sushi/pizza etc. So in my case, i would definately use all 16 acc from the dex dagger (12 acc, 3 from teh 6 dex). However, if i used my lower acc set (more haste/atk less acc) and ate pizza, i have 45 in gear, 90 dex total, merits+love torque and a total of 395 acc. Pizza adds 10% so 395+10%=434. I am now at 94% acc on mandies and obviously would do much better with a str dagger. So in my case, i could literally do meat+acc dagger and have 93% hit rate, or do pizza+haste/atk and have 94% hit rate.

So you can use exp mobs to ballpark you acc. If its a harder mob, you need more, if its an easier mob you need less but exp mobs are always a good benchmark.

This is actually the 1st time ive ran any numbers sicne i never had mob stats for lv 80....this is interesting indeed. My acc and atk/haste sets werent really very far apart in acc so it was usually better to just go with haste/atk with pizza since i was still at a bleh hit rate with my meat build. These daggers swing my builds farther apart and they actually seem really close on paper now that my meat build can pull off more acc. /schemes
_______________________________________________________

Actually this reminds me, has their been any checks done if acc over 300 skill uses the same 1skill=0.9 acc as it does 200+ skill? Or does it change to something else post 300 skill? I havent seen anything on it and want to make sure my numbers are still right.
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#12 Aug 27 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Default
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
Banalaty wrote:
Or the multi attack one >_> (yes str one will have fatter WS for epeen, but it is certainly not even in the same ball park on TP gain)


TP gain becomes less important when you have Mercy Stroke because holding TP for your SATA timers is more overall damage than blowing your TP immediately. And if you aren't gaining tp faster than your SATA timers something is very wrong with your build.

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 3:29am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#13 Aug 27 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,983 posts
I disagree w/ ya this time Lobi. It's my belief that for any Mandau addicted enough to XI (more than myself atm apparently, since I have none of the following), you won't be all that you can be without having all of Fire & Thunder Kila, OAT Para, & Auric in your ******** Ignoring Twashtar of course. My belief is that if one were to create a 3-dimensional(+) model with an axis for pDif, hit rate, a ratio of avg engage VS disengage time, (etc), the answer to the optimal dagger would depend on what your current status was with respect to these values. S(hit)i(s)S(ituational) right.

Same thing for non-Mandau thief. The recent daggers are quite epic. Having multiple weapons in your ******** whether have a Mandau or not, is nothing new. Blau, X's, Ridill, for example. Well I guess that's 3 choices for the Mandau user of olde and only 2 for the normal user. I think SE is just doing a better job at releasing good situational **** with these magian trials.

I'll also attest again to my opposing view to the old "you have to be less concerned about TP gain after you have Mandau." Reflecting upon my many chronicalingz, it seems that **** was not always so simple. Long disengage times, feather tickle, people & mobs moving, refusing to be TA'ed, hate being glued to you, dark ixion, slimes, meleeing something in einherjar along with 20 other people; the list goes on. In my experiences, better TP gain has usually been a good thing. I'd contend that the value of TP gain is highly underrated among Mandau users.
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
#14 Aug 27 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
***
2,418 posts
Quote:
How about str/attk kila vs. def down 15% kila?

Personally I'm going to do:

1) Agi/Evasion
2) Dex/Accuracy dagger
3) str/attk or def down ?
4) Lowers accuracy vs. another agi/evasion ?

Its been reported that the stat down weapons work according to delay: higher delay weapons proc more often than lower ones like daggers. Also, many ppl have said they noticed a sharp decline in proc rates when they started dual-wielding so you might want to look into that before putting in the work for one of those.
____________________________
Rank: Bastok 10, San d'Oria 10, Windurst 10
Completed: RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG, ACP, MKD, ASA
Profile
#15 Aug 30 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
**
813 posts
Ok, thanks for the advice.

I'll definitely do the evasion and accuracy ones first, and reevaluate others later with (hopefully) more information if I have the stomach to do more trials.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 24 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (24)