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THFs rejoice! Native DW for you in September update!Follow

#52 Aug 27 2010 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So um...no DW until we hit 83 and increases from there....so yeah DW1 it looks like >.>


/sigh. And here I had my hopes up for something bigger.Smiley: frown

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 11:40pm by Melphina
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#53 Aug 27 2010 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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Banalaty wrote:
We havent made any ground in any direction.


Let me remind you that down is a direction.

But despair not! SE will give THF a saving grace, like.... TH3!

It would pair up together brilliantly with all their new ideas for THF.


...

Seriously, they really need to rethink a bit both THF and NIN.
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#54 Aug 27 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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TheKhory wrote:
Banalaty wrote:
We havent made any ground in any direction.


Let me remind you that down is a direction.

But despair not! SE will give THF a saving grace, like.... TH3!

It would pair up together brilliantly with all their new ideas for THF.


...

Seriously, they really need to rethink a bit both THF and NIN.


When are people going to realize that Abyssea negates almost any need for TH traits? Your TH lies in if you can find the mob weakness now.
#55 Aug 27 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Call me naive (or just plain stupid), but in the back of my mind I haven't given up hope yet about DW being 3 or 4 mostly because of the fact that I know SE is adamantly against people subbing THF.

Dnc was given DW for two main reasons: to help the job gain TP better, and to make it a more acceptable sub job (remember, SE stated themselves that DNC was created with subjob in mind). But over the years they have been trying to get DDs off of using /thf (creating overwhelm for Sam comes to mind). So to me it kinda makes sense that they don't want to give THF DW at lower levels and quite possibly will give us 4 @83. And if not...well what little faith I had remaining will just wither and die >.>

I know that it is a bit unlikely and that SE really sucks with things such as logic...but this makes the most sense to me as to why they're doing this.
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#56 Aug 27 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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879 posts
Kalisa wrote:

I know that it is a bit unlikely and that SE really sucks with things such as logic...but this makes the most sense to me as to why they're doing this.


My dad used to say my mom didnt let these silly things like logic or facts get in the way of her arguments, but i think that is because he didnt now SE.

Although i cant take all his credit away, she is really hard to deal with.
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Khory

TybudX wrote:
The hardest part of this game is finding 5-17 other people who aren't retarded.
#57 Aug 27 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
Even if THF got DW III or DWIV wouldn't you sub NIN for shadows anyway for 95% of things since that's mainly why most jobs sub NIN in the first place? THF/WAR with DW III would be a huge MP sponge in merit parties.
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#58 Aug 27 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Meldi wrote:
TheKhory wrote:
Banalaty wrote:
We havent made any ground in any direction.


Let me remind you that down is a direction.

But despair not! SE will give THF a saving grace, like.... TH3!

It would pair up together brilliantly with all their new ideas for THF.


...

Seriously, they really need to rethink a bit both THF and NIN.


When are people going to realize that Abyssea negates almost any need for TH traits? Your TH lies in if you can find the mob weakness now.


I would not be shocked to learn this was the case. They've added pretty much 0 steal/mug targets the last 5 updates, TH should get the boot next. Seriously, I don't care about any of the three, and let's see if SE can kid themselves that we're being invited for hate management if TH was gone.
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#59 Aug 27 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Meldi wrote:
When are people going to realize that Abyssea negates almost any need for TH traits? Your TH lies in if you can find the mob weakness now.


0/3 on Auric Daggers without TH then 2/2 with TH4 have me thinking otherwise. Technically 0/4 if you count the kill I helped another group finish just so we could have Cuelebre ToD sooner.
#60 Aug 27 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know it may come off as odd and possibly deranged, but I would rather have gotten no DW than this embarrassment of an update. It is an empty update for THF, and a slap in the face.

Really, how many trait upgrades could you expect on the road from 84-99? At most, 1...and that's to meet the standards of NIN and DNC. Giving it to them every 5 levels or so in an act of "slow learner, super prodigy" would make absolutely no sense in comparison. We can only hope for a clarification in Part 2 of the job adjustments, or in the version notes. Because if things stay the way they are, we're capped off at DWII.
#61redvenomweb, Posted: Aug 27 2010 at 5:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) To all the complainers:
#62 Aug 27 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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The best use of a DW1?

You no longer have to reequip your off-hand weapon when changing subs to black mage to do a quick warp from Rabao, Tav, or home city.
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#63 Aug 27 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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492 posts
redvenomweb wrote:
To all the complainers:

THF/NIN (and THF/DNC, I guess) did not get a buff. Every other THF subjob did.

Have we really gotten to the point that any offensive buff that does not either improve THF/NIN or obsolete it is considered a "slap in the face"?

This is why THF DD improvements are a pointless dead end.


I don't think that's the argument at all, no one gives a rat's *** that it's "OMG WE GOTZ TA SUB NIN QQQQQQ" it's more so that it actually had real potential to open up more sub job options for DD. I'm sure if they make those SCH enmity spells amazing then state we will be getting something similar in 4 months, then it's really just a watered down form of those spells, people would be ****** too, or they should be, I think.

I believe the general sentiment (Not exactly my own) is that if we were given DW3 or DW4, we could have been less useless in the situations that we're stuck in @5% on the mob for TH, and in situations we're already able to be pretty decent at, a great THF would actually be invited.

Ultimately the ******** is the fact DW3 or higher would have at least shown a direction SE wanted to take, DD or utility and it ended up being neither, or so I gather.

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 8:46pm by ElvaanTHF
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THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#64SKSmokes, Posted: Aug 27 2010 at 7:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Would DWIV really have made a difference in not being a TH *****? Maybe in merit parties...nvm, who does those anymore? All abyssea now and just about any job is "acceptable" for abyssea. Change on HNM? Nope, swinging ridiculously fast with zerk up still doesn't give THF the spike potential of a SAM/RNG/DRK.
#65 Aug 27 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
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I was playing around with numbers and found an interesting correlation between thief/war and thief/nin attack speed. In our current state dual wield II with suppa and mirke wardecors dw +3 augment we get 77% delay reduction and if you add brutal and max triple attack merits you average 2.48 swings per attack round. Now if we subbed /warrior with dual wield 1 we would still benefit from suppa and mirke DW aug but the number of swings per round averages to 2.64. If you aren't considering weapons that attack multiple times then across every range of weapon delay and haste level the number of swings per hour is identical.

Scenario 1
Quote:

Kila/Kila -- Delay 380
thf/nin with 77% dual wield and 50% haste
146.3 delay == 1476 attack rounds x 2.48 == 3,660 swings/hr

thf/war with 82% dual wield and 50% haste
155.8 delay == 1386 attack rounds x 2.64 == 3,659 swings per hour


Scenario 2
Quote:
Kila/Kila -- Delay 380
thf/nin with 77% dual wield and 20% haste
234.08 delay == 923 attack rounds x 2.48 == 2,289 swings/hr

thf/war with 82% dual wield and 20% haste
249.28 delay == 867 attack rounds x 2.64 == 2,288 swings/hr


Scenario 3
Quote:
Kila/Kila -- Delay 380
thf/nin with 77% dual wield and 80% haste
58.52 delay == 3,691 attack rounds x 2.48 == 9,153 swings/hr

thf/war with 82% dual wield and 80% haste
62.32 delay == 3,466 attack rounds x 2.64 == 9,150 swings/hr


I have also done this test with a weapon combo that had a theoretical delay of 450, and a third scenario with the mighty speed of the blau/sirocco (328 delay) and the results were identical. No matter what I did the number of swings per hour did not change from thief/war versus thief/nin.

The key lies in the dual wield range of ~~0.8. When you choose a dual wield of approximately 80% +/- a few numbers variance it creates a perfectly liner relationship with that of increasing delay by 5 and adding 10% double attack (/war sub). This linear relationship does break down as dual wield becomes stronger, thus dual wield III versus dual wield II or dual wield IV would not have the same relationship with 10% double attack as dual wield I does.

Summary Notes:
For the time being we are able to sub /warrior and retain identical speed with that of /nin because dual wield 1 and 15% double attack have a perfectly linear relationship across all delay/haste ranges as that of dual wield II and 5% double attack. This will change when dual wield III is added to our /nin sub at level 90.

Disclaimer: I am not saying you SHOULD sub /warrior because I fear it will have terrible problems with being dead all the time. I only posted this because I never expected that linear math correlation to show up like it did, and I just wanted to make it known. Berserk without shadows is deadly but it may prove to be useful in the instance you're fighting something with TP attacks that either bypass shadows alltogether or are strictly single target (IE: paladin tanked scenarios). If you were going to be subbing /warrior anyway, now there's no reason to NOT dual wield it.

Edited, Aug 28th 2010 12:16am by Melphina
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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#66 Aug 27 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Might just be me being naive or optimistic, but the announcement never really said which tier of DW we'd be getting....

Doubtful, but I'm still clinging to hope...
____________________________
Dec 1st 2008- "Hey maybe they will throw in a B in H2H just because they ignored this issue for so long(pfft yeah right).
LOLSE"

2010 - (03/22/2010) The Version Update Has Arrived!
"The following changes have been made to puppetmaster:
Hand-to-hand combat rating has been raised from rank C to B+."

...Well what'ddya know!
#67 Aug 28 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yopopoe wrote:
Might just be me being naive or optimistic, but the announcement never really said which tier of DW we'd be getting....

Doubtful, but I'm still clinging to hope...


I remember those days. When you give that up, I'll buy you a drink and we can commiserate all the times we hoped for balancing before we stopped caring that they never did, sound fun?
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THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#68 Aug 28 2010 at 3:37 AM Rating: Decent
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i bet we get dw2 at 99.
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#69 Aug 28 2010 at 7:18 AM Rating: Default
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SE wrote:
MNK Lv.85 Skillchain Bonus
WHM Lv.85 Shield Def. Bonus
RDM Lv.85 Mag. Burst Bonus
THF Lv.83 Dual Wield
DRK Lv.85 Crit. Atk. Bonus
BRD Lv.85 Fencer
NIN Lv.85 Skillchain Bonus
COR Lv.85 True Shot
PUP Lv.85 Crit. Def. Bonus


Notice DW is the only trait listed at 83. It could upgrade at 84 and 85 for DW3. In fact, I'm calling it. That's what's going to happen.
#70 Aug 28 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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cyrii wrote:
i bet we get dw2 at 99.


I'm gussing 97-99 but yeah, most likely.
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#71 Aug 28 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Notice DW is the only trait listed at 83. It could upgrade at 84 and 85 for DW3. In fact, I'm calling it. That's what's going to happen.


That's what your placing your hopes on? That's even more desperate than my idea xD
____________________________
Dec 1st 2008- "Hey maybe they will throw in a B in H2H just because they ignored this issue for so long(pfft yeah right).
LOLSE"

2010 - (03/22/2010) The Version Update Has Arrived!
"The following changes have been made to puppetmaster:
Hand-to-hand combat rating has been raised from rank C to B+."

...Well what'ddya know!
#72 Aug 28 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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492 posts
I figured I'd post this here for abit of humor since there's no general THF thread. Google, "lolthf" and see what it suggests for you. A friend made me do this today and I lol'd so hard.
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THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#73 Aug 29 2010 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
Well thats the first thing that i expected when i noticed that thf was the only job getting a trait at 83 instead of 85
#74 Aug 29 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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97 posts
Quote:
I figured I'd post this here for abit of humor since there's no general THF thread. Google, "lolthf" and see what it suggests for you. A friend made me do this today and I lol'd so hard.


doesnt come up with anything for me...
____________________________
Dec 1st 2008- "Hey maybe they will throw in a B in H2H just because they ignored this issue for so long(pfft yeah right).
LOLSE"

2010 - (03/22/2010) The Version Update Has Arrived!
"The following changes have been made to puppetmaster:
Hand-to-hand combat rating has been raised from rank C to B+."

...Well what'ddya know!
#75 Aug 29 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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492 posts
When I google, "lolthf" in chrome I get a suggestion that says, "Did you mean lolth?" apparently based off of some character in D&D but yeah. Does the same on my wife's google also. :\
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THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#76 Sep 03 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Default
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104 posts
Just having a bit positive thinking :x

Dual Wield - 2 X MAB+ ToM Daggers (MAB+20 from weapons, which COR cannot archieve :x)
Gets all possible MAB gears + AGI gears
Cannon Gun and Shell

/COR

QD + Slug Shot , in end game ?!

May be that's why SE gives us DW JT for end game purpose...

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