Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

THFs rejoice! Native DW for you in September update!Follow

#1 Aug 25 2010 at 2:34 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,987 posts
SE gonna give native Dual Wield to THF Job!

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/5757/detail.html

Let's celebrate!
____________________________
=10 is about My Little Pony.
Some people say I'm the DEVIL.
Aluus wrote:
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU EVIL EVIL BASTARD!!!!!!!!

KaneIsthara wrote:
You are the devil. Now it's gonna happen.

Kaolian wrote:
Also Tofu. We totally ban over Tofu as well.

My Brute - Valiarius
#2 Aug 25 2010 at 3:11 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,252 posts
Good news yes, but not holding my breath. Is it going to be the level of DW that was given to DNC (yay)...or to BLU? (>.>)

But at least our bitching finally got through to them XD
____________________________
DNC: 90 THF: 90 RNG: Semi retired @90 RDM: Retired@75

lolblog: http://mithrasmemoirs.blogspot.com/
Elemental Magian Dagger Guide
Gearsets/etc
#3 Aug 25 2010 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,060 posts
Eh, we're probably still going to have to sub nin for most things anyway. A THF without shadows can be a dead THF real quick. We'll have to wait and see what tier they give us I guess.
____________________________
Nebo
THF99/BRD99
#4 Aug 25 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
***
1,137 posts
As long as the DW we get at least matches what we would get with /nin I would be happy. I wonder if this means we can sub /war under certain circumstances?

Of course, as it was mentioned, sometimes you are required to have shadows (if you are pulling and / or kiting). I would imagine that for solo, /NIN still may be king too (or is it /DNC now?). But if there isnt much of a chance of you pulling and / or kiting, hopefully we can ditch /nin.

So, if this was the case, what would we sub? /WAR for berserk and warcry? /DNC for the (coming) haste samba and cures for the party?
____________________________
Manifest, Valefor
BST/PLD/COR/BRD/WAR/THF/SMN/BLM/WHM 99
RDM/SCH/DNC/NIN/WAR/SAM/RNG 49
PUP 30, BLU 16

Maniken, Valefor
WHM/DRG/BRD/MNK/RDM/WAR/BLM 99
SCH/NIN/SAM/BST 49
BLU 16

Linkshell: ChaoticUnion

Sozu Rogberry(pre Thf Knife patch): 0/49 ><
#5 Aug 25 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
***
3,775 posts
This was a welcome surprise to me as well. If they hold true to the buffing method's they've been using for the past several updates then yeah, we'll probably get get a good dual wield rating here. I'm hoping so for sure. That changes a lot of things to consider.

Auric Dagger -- This could very well become the dagger of choice.

New Sub Job considerations

/Warrior -- Offensive benefits include attack bonus I (10 attack), Double Attack, Berserk, Warcry and at level 90 Aggresssor. Defensive benefits include defender. Interesting note is provoke also makes a nice fast claim tool as well for hunting nm's. Thief/war with natural dual wield would have some serious power behind it. I don't know where and when it would be most viable but I'll be playing around with it at least a little bit.

/Samurai -- Offensive Benefits include store tp II (sTP + 15), Meditate, and Zanshin + Sekkanoki while defensive benefits include 3rd eye. I've seen a lot of dancer's subbing /nin but they operate differently than us and their tp is their life blood whereas ours relies more on our DoT . This would be a much weaker sub offensively than /warrior without question.

The old sub job considerations haven't changed other than adding in whatever natural dual wield we would get. Of course if we do get something like Dual Wield IV then we could still sub /nin and have some extreme attack speed with the safety of shadows. I'm wondering how big of an issue losing our protection from shadows will turn out to be, and where it can and can not be overcome.

EDIT: Edited out Zanshin in accordance with the info posted by Veggeto below. Also this deserves a quote

Seriha Wrote:
Quote:
/DRG would probably be my big group sub of choice with native Dual Wield. First being I'd swap out my Brutal for Wyvern (Suppa in other slot). Sub itself brings and ATK and ACC bonus. Jumps can provide additional TP, as well as being able to Triple Attack. The hate shedding properties of Jumps also allow us to yank someone else's enmity and then get rid of it without us eventually having to be careful if we're meleeing, too. If you can get your hands on a Speed or Bullwhip belt, 25% equipment Haste opens up, too.


DAMN that's nice O.o. Interestingly enough

Acuben's Helm
Wyvern Earring
Homam (hands)
speed/v belt
skadi's chausses
homam (feet)

is 25% haste without the bullwhip belt and if I threw in bullwhip it would raise it to 26% which is the true gear haste cap according to rounding. While the acuben's helm drops accuracy by 10 the sub job counters this with accuracy bonus 1. And of course there's always homam/acp legs and ocelot's trousers to consider with a turban build. That's pretty wicked!

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 11:06am by Melphina
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#6 Aug 25 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,112 posts
I am going to remain on the fence until I see what level they give... I can see SE giving us DW1 at 70 and putting in some clause that makes it so DW from subjobs do not overwrite our native DW... SE is slightly sadistic, so it fits with the MO.
____________________________
95THF, 95DRG, 90BRD, 94BLM, 95BLU, 90COR - Retired: Nov 2011
Someday soon my friends, this ride will come to and end, and we can't just get in line again.
#7 Aug 25 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
To quote Tychus Findlay (Marine in cinematic announcing Starcraft 2 after 12 years since Starcraft 1)

"Hell, it's about time"

In other news.....Guess i better level my war sub >_>. I havent been /war in so long i was planning on just not leveling it. Between thf and drg, I only need /sam, /nin, /dnc, and /blu. Guess i better get /war back in the mix.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 10:28am by Banalaty
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#8 Aug 25 2010 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
*
104 posts
Knowing how SE hates THF... I won't put up hope for higher Tier of DW will be given to THF.

And... without /NIN, I don't know how to keep my dmg up without sucking MP from healer or dying...
/RDM ? Beside of Phalanx, nothing I can think it is good for THF.
/SAM ? Sekki WS , solo SC, then what? Dodge or die?

just can't think of any subjob give me longer survival ...
Perhaps, I am a THF with /NIN for a long time, it is hard to ask me not to /NIN >.>;
#9 Aug 25 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,551 posts
/DRG would probably be my big group sub of choice with native Dual Wield. First being I'd swap out my Brutal for Wyvern (Suppa in other slot). Sub itself brings and ATK and ACC bonus. Jumps can provide additional TP, as well as being able to Triple Attack. The hate shedding properties of Jumps also allow us to yank someone else's enmity and then get rid of it without us eventually having to be careful if we're meleeing, too. If you can get your hands on a Speed or Bullwhip belt, 25% equipment Haste opens up, too.
#10 Aug 25 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,423 posts
Mistress Melphina wrote:
/Samurai -- Offensive Benefits include store tp II (sTP + 15), Meditate, and Zanshin + Sekkanoki while defensive benefits include 3rd eye. I've seen a lot of dancer's subbing /nin but they operate differently than us and their tp is their life blood whereas ours relies more on our DoT . This would be a much weaker sub offensively than /warrior without question.


Just Fyi, zanshin doesn't work w/ dual wield or h2h. Only single wield/2handed.

Tested myself ect. Blind pots, single wield sam 2handed wep. Procs very often. Single wield, procs very often. DW, couldn't get it to proc in 10 mins of swinging w/ blind pots. /blm h2h (one punch per round) procs like mad. /mnk 2 punches per round, no procs at all
#11 Aug 25 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
THF/DRG? SATA+Assassin's Charge+Jump with 2 multi hit weapons? I wonder what that will do...
____________________________
DRG75/RDM75/PLD75


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high
up in the sky
to the still land.
Veiling the moon with the light of eternity
it brings another promise to mother Earth
with a bounty and mercy.
#12 Aug 25 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Default
Also what makes you think it'll be DW1 only? Didn't they give DNC DW last patch and they got it at early levels? Or was that a last minute patch and not a previewed 'Level Cap' job adjustment like the one for thf this time?
____________________________
DRG75/RDM75/PLD75


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high
up in the sky
to the still land.
Veiling the moon with the light of eternity
it brings another promise to mother Earth
with a bounty and mercy.
#13 Aug 25 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
***
3,775 posts
I've been thinking about Thief/dragoon for the past hour and I don't think I like it as much as I do thief/war for general group setups. The reason /war is dangerous comes more from lacking shadows than it does from the inability to shed hate. If you're geared and buffed well you can take hate with normal melee swings. I don't think thief/dragoon will be any less in the line of fire than thief/war. High Jump is on a timer and if you're looking to sub /drg for an attempt at hitting the haste cap you're GOING to be getting struck. 25% gear haste + 13% dual wield (auric mirke and suppa) will attract just as much attention as the benefits /war affords. Regular jump actually increases enmity whereas High Jump only reduces enmity by 50% once every 3 minutes. That's not enough to protect you any more than /war defender is. Honestly if you sub /dragoon you're getting an offensive sub with higher haste whereas if you sub /war you're getting an offensive sub with raw power. BOTH combos are equally capable of getting plowed due to the DoT.

Furthermore while jumps may give you tp double attack is going to do that better. /war sub with brutal versus /dragoon sub with wyvern is a difference of 15% double attack rate versus 5% haste and I can't say for sure that the 5% haste automatically wins. Furthermore /war has berserk and warcry and very soon it will have aggressor whereas /dragoon will only have haste and conserve tp going for it. /war sub's double attacks can activate during weaponskill as well and berserk/aggressor will do far more for weaponskills than /dragoon's acc bonus. I have said for a long time that thief/war is a very dangerous job combo if you're talking about a TP burn scenario. When /dancer got dual wield last update I restated this point. Now it's our turn to get dual wield (at last!!) but I'd advise you to be careful because it packs a load of power with it and soaks up damage when it gets struck just as easily.

With that out of the way I'll say this. YES! I will be trying out thief/war!! Thief DOES have a natural defense against damage other than our shadows and that's our A+ Evasion rating. My evasion set is pretty damn good and if I'm pulling hate I will swap to it to shield me. I can foresee us in the near future discussing the need for a good evasion build and trying to make /war sub work so I'll start with mine.

Optical Hat --- Ritter Gorget -- Elusive Earring -- Elusive Earring
Aurore Doublet -- War Gloves +1 -- Breeze Ring -- Jelly Ring
Boxer's mantle, Scouter's Rope, Raven Hose, Aurore Gaiters

Now here's an interesting thought. The raven set has a large amount of -enmity which aides in enmity decay and can be coupled with novia.
Raven Jupon -- Evasion +9, Enmity -9
Raven Bracers -- Evasion +6, enmity -5
Raven Hose -- Evasion + 6, enmity - 6
Raven Gaiters -- Evasion +5, enmity -5
Novia Earring -- Evasion +1, enmity - 7

That adds a large amount of evasion while silmultaneously reducing enmity by a whopping 32%. It's a fun thought and one I'd like to discuss further with everyone elses input.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 12:48pm by Melphina
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#14 Aug 25 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
*
86 posts
I think with DRG sub, High Jump only sheds 30% hate, not the full 50%. But i could be wrong >.> lv11 DRG
____________________________
Fenrir.Mauddib
THF99 > NIN99 > WAR99
#15 Aug 25 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
**
798 posts
Quote:
Optical Hat --- Ritter Gorget -- Elusive Earring -- Elusive Earring
Aurore Doublet -- War Gloves +1 -- Breeze Ring -- Jelly Ring
Boxer's mantle, Scouter's Rope, Raven Hose, Aurore Gaiters


Just curious why you would make a hybrid type evasion set and not just go all out. You could replace the jelly ring with an alert ring (which is duoable) (+6), aurore gaiters with dance shoes+1 (+2), ritter gorget with evasion torque (+1 assuming 1 skill = 0.9 evasion), aurore doublet with SH+1 (+2), and one elusive with novia (+2) (since you are talking about it as a possibility). That would get you 13 more evasion from things which are relatively easily obtainable.
____________________________
Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#16 Aug 25 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
*****
12,443 posts
Just a passing comment that Melphina's probably already considered, but I thought I'd share anyway; you should probably try to figure out at what point the evasion actually starts to hurt your DoT.

what I mean: (note, when I say "full time" I mean "ignoring ws", not ignoring the benefits the subs give to ws, just that the over all damage from your tp set "full time" means not having to switch to an eva set when you pull hate)

thf/nin: full time TP set = x dot while engaged
thf/war: TP set = y dot while engaged and Eva set = z dot while engaged, where z < x < y
thf/drg: TP set = w dot while engaged and Eva set = v dot while engaged, where v < x < w
whether z/y = v/w, z/y < v/w or z/u > v/w depends on build, player skill, attention, and what you're fighting.

At what point are z+y and/or v+w less than x? That's the ultimate question. In non math terms, at what point does your reduced damage taken and thus, reduced damage dealt, from switching to an evasion set end up over taking the over all increase in damage from subbing war (or drg)?

I point this out because, if you plan on subbing war, once you get aggressor, that -20 evasion will also need to be considered. Yea, I know thf has a sh*tton of evasion. I'm a pup, I know what that's like Smiley: lol. I'm just pointing that you probably want to consider this stuff too.
____________________________
Theytak, Siren Server
LOLGAXE IS MY ETERNAL RIVAL!

Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#17 Aug 25 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
**
492 posts
TheHolyDragoonSeraphus wrote:
Also what makes you think it'll be DW1 only? Didn't they give DNC DW last patch and they got it at early levels? Or was that a last minute patch and not a previewed 'Level Cap' job adjustment like the one for thf this time?


No it wasn't, if I recall. The job they said they were giving Dual Wield to was BLU, who got only DW1.

I want to believe, but man I know the pattern says DW1 or 2, tops. ; ;

Please DW3 or higher, please!


EDIT: @ Melphina -enmity gear won't assist in enmity decay, only hinder it's production. For instance, all melee strikes will generate less enmity than they would, but the decay of enmity would still be the same if I recall, according to Kanican's LJ.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:55pm by ElvaanTHF
____________________________
THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#18 Aug 25 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
Not talking about using Jumps as a stand alone thing. But I'm curious because SATA makes your next hit a super critical, so I'm wondering what kinda damage SATA+Dual Wield+multi hit weapon/ridill+Assassin's Charge+Jump would do
____________________________
DRG75/RDM75/PLD75


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high
up in the sky
to the still land.
Veiling the moon with the light of eternity
it brings another promise to mother Earth
with a bounty and mercy.
#19 Aug 25 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
931 posts
THF DW should be on par with DNC DW, only seems right. The reason BLU have DW1 is because all BLU traits are level one traits. Hopefully we will get more in the future, but its a start.
____________________________
Ferrious 99BLU/99Thf/99Blm/99Pld/68Rdm
d(~.^)b <(Quetzalcoatl)
#20 Aug 25 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,280 posts
Melphina, I would avoid Ritter Gorget in a build trying to make /war work. Only because it has +3 enmity on it.
#21 Aug 25 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
***
3,775 posts
Quote:
Just curious why you would make a hybrid type evasion set and not just go all out. You could replace the jelly ring with an alert ring (which is duoable) (+6), aurore gaiters with dance shoes+1 (+2), ritter gorget with evasion torque (+1 assuming 1 skill = 0.9 evasion), aurore doublet with SH+1 (+2), and one elusive with novia (+2) (since you are talking about it as a possibility). That would get you 13 more evasion from things which are relatively easily obtainable.


There is a point where evasion caps and adding more no longer works. Since we're dealing with an 80% evasion rate anyway you're going to get hit 1/5 times no matter what you do so I adjusted a few pieces to accomodate that. What I listed was my current build but I may consider altering it a bit.

Aurore Gaiters-- you trade 2 evasion for 2% haste and 5 dex. Haste lowers utsusemi recast as well and up until now my builds have focused mostly on /nin play. The DoT and dex were worth the trade imo.

Ritter Gorget -- The most an eva torque will give you is 7 evasion but at level 75 I always got 6 from it because I lost a point to rounding. The Ritter adds to the max hp count which the eva torque does not. Up until now I preferred extra enmity so I didn't mind it increasing enmity. To be fair I also forgot about that little fact because I wasn't concerned.

Aurore Doublet -- Just like the feet I'm sacrificing 2 evasion for more DoT friendly stats. The blend of 2% double attack, 4 str, 4 dex, 4 agi (if you consider lowering enemy crit rate), with 10 eva/r acc/ and acc appealed to me more than simply adding 12 eva/acc and 20 hp.

Novia Earring
-- Coupled with not caring about enmity and the fact that evasion caps at 80% I didn't deem it a necessary upgrade and never bought it to save gil.

Jelly Ring-- I figured 5% pDT would benefit me during the 1/5 hits landed more than a few more eva since I had a reliable set already and risked not maxing out 80% eva rate on a few higher end mobs.

Quote:
Melphina, I would avoid Ritter Gorget in a build trying to make /war work. Only because it has +3 enmity on it.


I forgot it tacked that on. I merited maximum enmity increase 4 times though. I honestly wonder if worrying about enmity gear is worth it when we're talking about dual wielding /war. I'm so decked out I don't think it would help me much. I just mentioned it to see what others thought.

Quote:
EDIT: @ Melphina -enmity gear won't assist in enmity decay, only hinder it's production. For instance, all melee strikes will generate less enmity than they would, but the decay of enmity would still be the same if I recall, according to Kanican's LJ.


Yeah, I worded that poorly. I was thinking of overall enmity in relation to that of your party members since they'll be building enmity at full rates. I don't know if it would be worth considering though since this is /war we're dealing with and it's just... well dual wielded speed + berserk + 15% double attack is extremely potent when you're geared right. In my case after I pull hate I'd probably only lose main hate to another melee's weaponskill or a trick attacked version of my own on another person.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 3:39pm by Melphina
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#22 Aug 25 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
Quote:
Not talking about using Jumps as a stand alone thing. But I'm curious because SATA makes your next hit a super critical, so I'm wondering what kinda damage SATA+Dual Wield+multi hit weapon/ridill+Assassin's Charge+Jump would do


Jump only does more damage than a regular attack for 2 reasons:
1. It has a 'vit mod'. Its similar to, but not the same as a WS mod, but a low multiplier based on vit.
2. Drgs SHOULD be using AF boots which add 10% atk to jump.

Other than that it is identical to a normal attack. It can miss/DA/TA/crit/etc like a melee round. Thf has piddly vit and no AF boost. It will only be SLIGHTLY stronger than a melee attack due to vit boost. So your not going to be seeing OMGBBQ numbers with SAJump. A SAAC Jump will basically be a regular melee SAAC attack.

However this does bring up a mildly interesting point for me as a drg. Does the vit boost only effect the primary hit (like WSC) or is it more like a modifier that applies to all hits such as double attack, dual wield, or in thf case, potential 6hits (like the 100% acc on melee SATA). If thats the case, you would see a moderate boost on SATA+AC+Jump, but still nothing compared to saving that SATA+AC with a WS.

The biggest fun thing for that is you can SATA+Jump without engaging and from a range of 10. More like a blu/thf using cannonball. It is also instant so no more "SA!....wait for it.....mob turns...smack for 30 damage" and becomes "SA!Jump!=POW".

As for /war vs /drg, this has been done on the 2hander side a great deal, but the primary candidates were sam/drg and war/drg. War/drg has been outstripped since hasso came into the picture. Sam/war vs sam/drg has been raging a long while but /drg generally considered superior, but that wont work for us because zerk wont help gekkos already capping atk which is some ~60% of sam damage (WS). Thf will gain WAAAAY more from zerk than sam ever can (unless polearm). And when aggressor hits, the 10acc boost of /drg wont be so notable. Also sam doesnt give up brutal earring as we would.

15% DA, zerk, aggressor vs 10acc, 5% haste and 1handed weapon jumps dosnt stack up so well. Particularly since we can already break over 20% haste with high end gear as it is. We wont gain the full 5% boost in haste compared to say, 22% build with ocelot pants. 22% haste, 15% DA, zerk+agressor build utilizing ocelot pants should defeat a 25% /drg build with 2 jumps+10acc.

Thf/war will be a BEAST.
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#23 Aug 25 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
**
798 posts
Quote:
There is a point where evasion caps and adding more no longer works. Since we're dealing with an 80% evasion rate anyway you're going to get hit 1/5 times no matter what you do so I adjusted a few pieces to accomodate that. What I listed was my current build but I may consider altering it a bit.


Right, but how can you be sure you are hitting that point unless you have fought a specific mob and parsed it out and/or know its accuracy already? Evasion builds are already going to gimp your damage output in favor of survival, so why not go all out? I've never even looked into a -PDT build on THF since I generally played /NIN and used my evasion build to get up Ichi. /WAR is going to make me have to rethink things.
____________________________
Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#24 Aug 25 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,551 posts
Regardless of sub, if we find ourselves frequently the attention of mobs then I'd pin it more on healers being keen on their duties (Thinks like Convert and Accession'd Stoneskin do exist, after all). If people can be okay with two-handers full-timing Hasso, there's no reason to exclude a strong THF from those scenarios.

I know in SAM talks over Soboro and wearing Brutal, people complained that Brutal's DA would hurt Soboro's TA rate due to precedence in code checks. Can similar be applied to THF when considering 15% DA and our fully merited TA?
#25 Aug 25 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
***
3,775 posts
Quote:
Right, but how can you be sure you are hitting that point unless you have fought a specific mob and parsed it out and/or know its accuracy already? Evasion builds are already going to gimp your damage output in favor of survival, so why not go all out?


A valid point. I'll look into adding the eva torque and scp harness +1 back into my eva set. I no longer have my dance shoes +1 and those are a pain to find on the auction house, but I'll see what I can do with it.

Quote:
I've never even looked into a -PDT build on THF


I think there are instances where a PDT piece is a good choice. Denali Hands, Jelly ring, and the recently added fugacity beret for starters. You can build the desultor tassets with 7 evasion and 4% -PDT as well. I augmented my tassets with 3% haste and critical hit damage + 3% to make them a hybrid speed/damage option for my sa/ta macroes. I could redo the fight but I really don't want to. I'm rather fond of my tassets choice and I added aurore gaiters and skadi's mask into my SA build giving my sa a total of 9% haste and my TA a total of 7%. I have suppa in my ta build as well but I'm reluctant to pass up hollow for suppa in my trick attack macro. I use this for my standard setup and I'm pleased with the results.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 4:35pm by Melphina
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#26 Aug 25 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
****
7,094 posts
Unless THF natively gets DW3 (at least), /NIN will still be the SJ of choice.
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#27 Aug 25 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
Mistress Melphina wrote:
+ Sekkanoki


SA + Mercy Stroke

TA + Mercy Stroke

Skillchain: Darkness

redvenomweb wrote:
Unless THF natively gets DW3 (at least), /NIN will still be the SJ of choice.


This.

Grandlethal wrote:
I am going to remain on the fence until I see what level they give... I can see SE giving us DW1 at 70 and putting in some clause that makes it so DW from subjobs do not overwrite our native DW... SE is slightly sadistic likes to kick THF in the balls whenever possible, so it fits with the MO.


This basically, only change it to "TP Floor removal" "2H buff" "Astral Ring change" ect.



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 7:33pm by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#28 Aug 25 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
****
7,094 posts
Interestingly enough, if THF DW is subbable, BLU just got a significant boost.
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#29 Aug 25 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,060 posts
Maybe its just me...but I can't see myself subbing /war for anything other than tanked fights (HNMs etc), which I am fine with.

In events like limbus, dyna, Abysea, meripo etc, anything other than a TAWS will probably get you killed unless you are swapping out to a max evasion set, holding damage, TP or all of the above. Any one of which would really chew into the damage bonus /war gives anyway. Plus we all know how much tp burn DD's love to be trick attacked amirite?

/goodbye to using collaborator or accomplice at all.

Whereas if I am /nin, I can still idle in my regular TP gear and maybe cast a Ni before another DD grabs hate.

I am still not convinced that THF will get a significant DW trait, although I am hopeful. IF its not AT LEAST 3+, its useless. But SE loves to give us useless crap (Hai2u Despoil) so I am quite skeptical.
____________________________
Nebo
THF99/BRD99
#30 Aug 25 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Not really the adjustment to the job that is needed at this point.


(Should have happened earlier instead of/with Dancer. Still not going to change much.)
____________________________
Carbuncle


#31 Aug 25 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,775 posts
I don't think our old way of thinking during old events will be applicable for too long. We're going to be level 85 soon and lvl 90 before years end meaning older mobs will miss us more often and hit for less damage as they become lower and lower on the relative scale. Meanwhile we can crank up the DD stats with no concern of accuracy and tear them apart. Subbing /war in limbus may be safe by level 90 with stuff dying before it gets off many attacks. Healers and support classes are growing just as fast as we are with stronger gear and spells. The ability to recover from and mitigate damage dealt by level 75 events should be child's play by the end of the grind. We're talking about a group of level 85-90 (and one day higher) players taking on decent challenge level mobs with level 90+ abilities, gear, and spells. Much of the NEW content is stripping us of our utsusemi dependency. Abyssea experience alliances... you get more exp per individual whilst having a freaking alliance to cover your butt. 18 people versus a few mobs means you don't NEED utsusemi if your group is balanced. New Notorious Mobs, many of which completely bypass utsusemi have been added. There are NM's where utsusemi is required (Megantereon anyone?) and NM's where utsusemi won't do crap as the nm's that use -ga's attacks use a lot of them (almost exclusively in some instances).

FFXI is going through a revolutionary phase and I have a feeling that by level 99 the game will be nothing like it was at 75. S-E is releasing powerful buffs and spreading them across all the job classes while simultaneously taking the NM's to new levels. Sub jobbable convert, natural dual wield, an exp environment where black mages are highly sought after, "starting" gear that rivals old sets, and higher end weapons and armor with mouth watering enhancements, and new job abilities both high and mid level are a few of the things we've gotten that people never expected we'd ever see. We have four more updates before we hit level 99 and if each one is as revolutionary as the first we can't discredit anything yet. Thief/War may well be viable at level 99. S-E has a lot of freedom to work with and the old limitations to develop around have been broken on both player as well as the enemy side.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 10:26pm by Melphina
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#32 Aug 25 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Mistress Melphina wrote:
I don't think our old way of thinking during old events will be applicable for too long. We're going to be level 85 soon and lvl 90 before years end meaning older mobs will miss us more often and hit for less damage as they become lower and lower on the relative scale. Meanwhile we can crank up the DD stats with no concern of accuracy and tear them apart. Subbing /war in limbus may be safe by level 90 with stuff dying before it gets off many attacks. Healers and support classes are growing just as fast as we are with stronger gear and spells. The ability to recover from and mitigate damage dealt by level 75 events should be child's play by the end of the grind. We're talking about a group of level 85-90 (and one day higher) players taking on decent challenge level mobs with level 90+ abilities, gear, and spells. Much of the NEW content is stripping us of our utsusemi dependency. Abyssea experience alliances... you get more exp per individual whilst having a freaking alliance to cover your butt. 18 people versus a few mobs means you don't NEED utsusemi if your group is balanced. New Notorious Mobs, many of which completely bypass utsusemi have been added. There are NM's where utsusemi is required (Megantereon anyone?) and NM's where utsusemi won't do crap as the nm's that use -ga's attacks use a lot of them (almost exclusively in some instances).

FFXI is going through a revolutionary phase and I have a feeling that by level 99 the game will be nothing like it was at 75. S-E is releasing powerful buffs and spreading them across all the job classes while simultaneously taking the NM's to new levels. Sub jobbable convert, natural dual wield, an exp environment where black mages are highly sought after, "starting" gear that rivals old sets, and higher end weapons and armor with mouth watering enhancements, and new job abilities both high and mid level are a few of the things we've gotten that people never expected we'd ever see. We have four more updates before we hit level 99 and if each one is as revolutionary as the first we can't discredit anything yet. Thief/War may well be viable at level 99. S-E has a lot of freedom to work with and the old limitations to develop around have been broken on both player as well as the enemy side.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 10:26pm by Melphina


Everything you said is well worded, grammatically correct and appears to make logical sense.

The only caveat I must add (which is before your time as a long-time Thief poster on here because I don't remember seeing you around much pre-ToAU) is that Square-Enix, no matter what update, no matter what change, has a history of complete inability to balance the game. The pendulum of balance at Square-Enix headquarters for their FFXI job "adjustment" team swings to one extreme or the other. There really isn't a middle ground, and they have proven they do favor certain jobs over others. This favoritism based on someone who has read every single update note on FFXI and followed most English based FFXI forums appears to be largely correlated to who whines the loudest and longest.
____________________________
Carbuncle


#33 Aug 26 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,983 posts
And the case for Evisceration continues to increase.

I'm not sure if anyone has gotten the new crit body piece yet, but that combined with our newer crit dmg+ trait and now fencer, is making thf/war sound mighty beastly to me.

Edit: Oh yeah single weapon only -.-

I'm actually worried about how much damage I'll be taking. Thf will pretty much be on the same /nin status as Mnk.
Do they have any idea how beastly they just made DD thief in the right situations? You can often get away with /war in Abyssea parties and I know I should be able to /war in exp parties if I want to be cheeky and bring my PL.


DW IV is 30% delay. Since dancer got it, that's just what I'm expecting them to give to thief. I'll keep my fingers crossed so I won't be disappointed if it's something lower, but that's really what I expect.
Add current standard equip: Suppa, Mirke Wardecors and Auric Dagger, and that becomes 43%. Ridiculous.

For zerging, if so desired we can use Krabkatoa head, 1% haste neck, /drg w/ earring, dusk gloves +1, ocelot legs, and homam feet, for 23% haste while still able to wear something that might look intriguing, Nusku's Sash.

I don't know what the DW on that sash is, but if it's 5%, it could be situationally better for dmg than a belt with haste.
If we're starting off with 43% DW and if we have 26% equip haste and 15% haste spell, 5% DW would still be better than a 5% haste belt. That could be something to think about; I'd like to know how much DW is on that thing.



This could just be flat out ridiculous. I'm excited lol. I've been binging starcraft 2 and even started to play FFXIV beta, but thief getting treated right really restores my interest in XI again.

If they give us DW IV, 28->43% DW is an approximate 26% DPS increase. /war D.A. added, factoring in T.A., is a 6.5% increase. Compound that together for a 34% increase in DMG. And we haven't even factored in Berserk, fencer, native attack bonus, and eventually aggressor. Whatever the settings, I sure as hell have never been 34% behind in damage when competing with neither the best Apoc on my server, nor the best Mnk, nor the best War. If SE does things right, thief with or without mandau will be something to fear. As it should be.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 10:01am by Shamaya
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
#34 Aug 26 2010 at 3:40 AM Rating: Decent
**
910 posts
Just to nitpick but Fencer is incompatible with dual wield it seems.
____________________________
Cutaru BST lvl 75 on Gilgamesh.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?158212
BCNM/KSNM Can I have it ?
#35 Aug 26 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,987 posts
What would THFs do if they found out they get DWI at level 15, DWII at level 35, DWIII at level 55, DWIV at 75??? I know, SE is implementing the Job trait in the same update that takes us to level 85, but nothing prevents SE from making DWIV level 75.

Can anyone guess what could happen at level 95?
____________________________
=10 is about My Little Pony.
Some people say I'm the DEVIL.
Aluus wrote:
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU EVIL EVIL BASTARD!!!!!!!!

KaneIsthara wrote:
You are the devil. Now it's gonna happen.

Kaolian wrote:
Also Tofu. We totally ban over Tofu as well.

My Brute - Valiarius
#36 Aug 26 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,551 posts
While I can see DWIV possible once the cap increase finishes, I can't help but shake the feeling we'll only get up to III for now, maybe even overall. DNC stands to benefit more from faster swings due to more frequent JA use, whereas THF is usually limited to SA or TA.

Nonetheless, I have a healthy respect for a properly buffed THF and know mine isn't too shabby at the moment, either. Went 2/5 on Auric over the past few days, mine being the second. So will be nice to play with that some soon, but I've also been having ISP issues all day. -.-
#37 Aug 26 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
***
2,236 posts
Speculation:

The introduction of dnc dual wield was such that someone at max level at the time of the update (lvl 75) would see an improvement over subbing /nin (ie: DW2 -> DW3), and make a further gain upon reaching the new cap (DW4 @ 80).

I would therefore expect the same pattern for thf. DW3 would be in place for lvl 80s, and DW4 at lvl 85. One could then extrapolate backwards and expect DW tiers at levels 25, 45, 65 and 85.
#38 Aug 26 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
***
3,775 posts
I'd like to offer some input on the subject of thief/war and propose the concept of a shadow build. I've become more and more familiar with shadow armor since I play ballista a lot and it's becoming increasingly popular to find as much PDT as possible. Whereas defense won't protect you much if you're shadowless PDT will! Consider this

Thief/War
PDT Kila, PDT Kila --- ammo
head, neck, earring, earring
body, *****, Jelly Ring, ring
back, waist, Desultor Tassets with 3% haste and +4 PDT, feet

Look at how CLOSE that is to our current setups. I only swapped out 4 slots and managed to retain weapons that still have a high base damage and DoT rating. I also left the hands empty because Denali is not PDT but straight damage reduction itself (IE: a conceptual baby defending ring). The denali cuts into armor bound haste however whereas the others do not affect gear haste.

PDT caps at -50% reduction and as you can see this shadow set adds +25 PDT with only a few minor setbacks to a standard /nin tp set. The biggest cut in damage comes from dual wielding two shadow daggers but that adds PDT + 16. The Kila's are going to be expanded upon yet again, and the upgrade from shadow dakini to shadow kila was 5% PDT---> 8% PDT. If we get 10% or more pDT on a single weapon we can dual wield with the shadow capabilities of an earth staff and even more down the road. Imagine a hypothetical level 99 shadow weapon with 15% PDT and then dual wield two of them!!

PROS: Shadow sets are more effective than defense sets because they offer straight damage reduction. The rest comes from a hypothetical dual wield IV with /war sub and the accompanying berserk, warcry, double attack, provoke (lol?), and at level 90 + add in agressor. Furthermore you can swap full gear sets to weaponskill in and swap back to your shadow TP set immediately afterward.

CONS: The jelly ring raises magic damage taken by 5% and shadow sets don't work on casters period. Depending on how much PDT is available to you you may still get whalloped. And there is always the obvious fact that adding in shadow weapons and armor DOES cut into DD stat equipment.

Additional thoughts:
While the Jelly Ring has obvious setbacks there are augmented Dark Rings inside abyssean chests that add +6 PDT and can be worn as a pair for +12 PDT ... something I've become painfully aware of in ballista. Pairing up two of them sacrifices the rajas ring however. Still, while it's somewhat limited in capabilities now the shadow thief/war has potential to grow. Remember that we don't know WHAT kind of gear and abilities we'll end up with when we're finally level 99. This is just another possible line of thinking that could one day grow into something beautiful.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 10:42pm by Melphina
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#39 Aug 27 2010 at 12:35 AM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
If the Parazoniums continue to improve I wonder if whether at some point /WAR and the +Double Attack version might become better than the OAT?
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#40 Aug 27 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,983 posts
I did some napkin math on another forum on the D.A. dagger,
Meanwhile, I'm not impressed with the DoubleAttack+7 Kartika. With brutal and triple merits, Thf's added swing volume is 1.24hits/round. Since double attack is believed to proc first and gimps t.a., and since d.a. has decreasing marginal returns in a sense, and the increase only brings you to 1.296hits/round. A marginal increase of 4.5% more swings rather than 7. If you're dual-wielding this (211 delay) and a 190 delay weapon with 23% D.W., the D.A+7 equates to about -13 delay in terms of DoT. So melee DoT wise, it's as if swinging a 41/198 delay weapon. That isn't bad, but it's no 39/201, 5% DW Auric Dagger.

But of course it will be buffed. And as our swing volume (d.a. and t.a.) go up, which they will with /war, you're right in that the d.a. dagger will be hurt relatively less than the OAT one.


Melphina that is a lot of PDT. And lately I have been addicted to -MDT and -PDT sets for my Rdm. But I don't know what kind of a mental image you have for their application for thief. Surely for tanking we'll still use Thf/Nin, I'm sure you don't mean to say we shouldn't. But for our /war, a dmg mitigation set is certainly going to be necessary for survival.
Oh, well actually I now know what you mean. I thought you were drawing a relation to ballista. But you're simply talking about a ballista set. Do you mean shadow-less and not a /shadow/ set? The PDT daggers you're talking about are earth element.

Well if that's the case, I mean I don't do ballista and there are probably only a few who do it here. But that sounds pretty ideal to me. Both PDT and evasion get exponential gains, the more you stack, until they reach their cap, though. So, for example, say you were at 23% evade rate and were using dark ring -6PDT. If you addded alert ring to get 3% evade rate, you just decreased your dmg taken by 20/23, or about 13%. If the -6PDT ring put you from 44% -> 50% PDT, that'd be marginally decreasing your dmg reduction by 44/50 or about 12%. So in that situation you're better w/ evasion.
I have a feeling that for ballista some amount of PDT will be the best option. It is possible to cap evasion I would think on some opponents, and still have room to add PDT. Or perhaps, sometimes a piece of PDT will be overpowering compared to an evasion option. But without knowing your evade rate it's hard to say what's better at any given moment I think. Maybe best to go w/ the gut.
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
#41 Aug 27 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,252 posts
Quote:

The jobs listed below will each welcome an existing trait to their arsenal upon reaching the specified level, beyond which the degree of mastery will increase in stages.
Job Level Job Trait
MNK Lv.85 Skillchain Bonus
WHM Lv.85 Shield Def. Bonus
RDM Lv.85 Mag. Burst Bonus
THF Lv.83 Dual Wield
DRK Lv.85 Crit. Atk. Bonus
BRD Lv.85 Fencer
NIN Lv.85 Skillchain Bonus
COR Lv.85 True Shot
PUP Lv.85 Crit. Def. Bonus


So um...no DW until we hit 83 and increases from there....so yeah DW1 it looks like >.>
____________________________
DNC: 90 THF: 90 RNG: Semi retired @90 RDM: Retired@75

lolblog: http://mithrasmemoirs.blogspot.com/
Elemental Magian Dagger Guide
Gearsets/etc
#42 Aug 27 2010 at 2:52 AM Rating: Excellent
**
492 posts
Dual Wield 1, shocker.

Worthless.
____________________________
THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#43 Aug 27 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,983 posts
Great. ;/ Well it is kind of silly to overpower us so ridiculously with a DWIV

I still wouldn't consider DWI to be useless, though, pre-90. Sacrifice 5% DW, aka more than 5% increased hits, in place of 10% d.a., aka less than 10% increased hits. Not to mention berserk, etc. So certainly not worthless.

They did also say "with further improvements to the traits to come." But at 99 we're probably looking at a 15% natural DWII vs a 25% DW3 ;/
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
#44 Aug 27 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,008 posts
I don't know Sham, it is kind of a downer.

We have always wanted it before, at least me, and to give it at such a late level and supposedly tier 1 kind of saddens me.

I wouldn't mind if they had given us starting at level 50 and increased tiers every 20 levels so that we'd end up with only dual wield III. That would be fair and made us happier.
#45 Aug 27 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
805 posts
I thought that native traits over-ride the same traits from sub jobs. If that is the case, we will lose DWII with nin sub once we ding 83 and lose the opportunity we had for DWIII at 90. Please tell me my recollection is wrong. If I'm right, this is a huge nerf.
____________________________
Lokithor
Shiva Server
Linkshell: Soulfire
Rng/Blm/Thf/Brd/Dnc
#46 Aug 27 2010 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
ElvaanTHF wrote:
Dual Wield 1, shocker.

Worthless.


After 8 years of SE delivering groin shots to THF at every opportunity we should have known better.

Well played SE, you are master trolls.


Edited, Aug 27th 2010 9:29am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#47 Aug 27 2010 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
Lokithor wrote:
I thought that native traits over-ride the same traits from sub jobs. If that is the case, we will lose DWII with nin sub once we ding 83 and lose the opportunity we had for DWIII at 90. Please tell me my recollection is wrong. If I'm right, this is a huge nerf.


If this turns out to be the case I think I really will quit FFXI. I'm serious.



Edited, Aug 27th 2010 9:38am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#48 Aug 27 2010 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,987 posts
Lobivopis wrote:
Lokithor wrote:
I thought that native traits over-ride the same traits from sub jobs. If that is the case, we will lose DWII with nin sub once we ding 83 and lose the opportunity we had for DWIII at 90. Please tell me my recollection is wrong. If I'm right, this is a huge nerf.


If this turns out to be the case I think I really will quit FFXI. I'm serious.


That would be kind of the most destructive nerf SE has ever given a job that didn't need a nerf in the first place. It will now be THF/WAR onry, cause what will be the point of /NIN in that case, if THF will very likely never be able to pull enough hate to make shadows worth it again.
____________________________
=10 is about My Little Pony.
Some people say I'm the DEVIL.
Aluus wrote:
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU EVIL EVIL BASTARD!!!!!!!!

KaneIsthara wrote:
You are the devil. Now it's gonna happen.

Kaolian wrote:
Also Tofu. We totally ban over Tofu as well.

My Brute - Valiarius
#49 Aug 27 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
***
2,890 posts
Traits don't work that way. A BLU can get MAB 1 naively but if their /BLM or /RDM they still get the MAB2 from the sub. Don't worry you get to keep the DW from your jobs, but I seriously think SE is screwing the pooch here. THF should be getting DW at the same level that DNC gets it ... /sigh.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#50 Aug 27 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,280 posts
Easy test. DRG or WAR main.... sub DRK. If you get an additional 12 atk the stronger trait wins.
#51 Aug 27 2010 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
^ this. Same tier traits do not stack in any way. Multiple tier traits, only the highest takes effect. ie: Drg gets atk bonus 1. /war gives atk bonus 1. Drg/War has Atk bonus 1. /Drk has atk bonus 2 (lv 30). Drg/Drk =atk bonus 2. Same with Drg/Rng and acc bonuses, mages and MAB, HMP, MDB and everything else.

If there was some retarded thing where DW2 /nin doesnt overwrite DW1 from Thf main that would be completely unprecedented in the history of FFXI among all job traits in the game. Highly, highly unlikely.

That said, DW1 is friggin lame as hell. We will have a tiny window of thf/war with DW1 vs DW2 (10 vs 15%) till 85. Come level 90, it will likely be back to /nin all over again.

Lv 90 scenario: We stay with DW1 (DW1 at 83, almost no chance of DW2 by 90). Now its 10%DW /war vs 25% DW /nin. We already know how that turns out. We have been doing 15% DW2 vs /war comparisons for years. 10% vs 25% is the same but even worse because that 15% boost /nin would have over /war (10% vs 25%) will be exponentially better than the 0% DW vs 15% since DW has inreasing returns. Back to square 1 except that 15% boost from /nin is even better than the old 0-15% were working with now.

Post lv 90 We get DW2 (maybe). Now its 15%/war vs 25% /nin. It will still be in the same ballpark /war, but with /war having to hold back without all that much of a damage boost, i cant imagine it being very practical considering it wont be OMGBBQ more damage as it would if we were say DW4/war.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is really frustrating. I would have been ecstatic with DW4 though thats honestly more than i realistically expected or feel we needed, but was honestly expecting DW2 now and 3 available by 99 matching /nin.

I was really expecting a larger boost considering in the same breath, they are 'adding hate manipulation spells'. As lol as hate control is these days, I liked the idea of spreading it around so overall hatecontrol for groups would go up. But with the expected result i have been pushing for in most of our thf update wishlist type threads. Either give us more tactical/support functions (obviously not with LOLdespoil and new hate control spells to others) OR push us back in the rat race with a significant DD boost and leave our support in the current rather subtle state. I was really hopeful that SE had gotten off the fence and chosen a direction and it was looking like a big boost in the DD direction via DW. After seeing the dnc update, i was actually very positive about the potential (like many here). This is just sad. SE still hasnt gotten off the fence about what they want thf to do.

since lv 75 we have gotten: Worst excuse for a support JA in existence (loldespoil), 5% crit boost, and now.....DW1. We havent made any ground in any direction. DDs are getting more DD boosts. Support jobs are still moving ahead in the support division. We hare just falling behind from every angle. When it comes to thf, SE needs to (in the words of my HS band director :P) its time to sh*t or get off the pot. Pick a path for thf and commit to it. Stop halfassing this sh*t and get off the fence. sh*t or get off the pot.
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 26 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (26)