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Weaponskills in AbysseaFollow

#1 Jul 27 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe it is just me with my pretty average Weaponskill gear, but has anyone else notices substantially higher WS with shark bite and mandalic stab in Abyssea than Dancing Edge and Evisceration. I was in a pt where Mandalic stab was averaging 900-1000 damage per Weaponskill with SA and TA and DE and Evisceration were averaging about 500-600 with SA and TA. My Mandalic stabs actually peaked at 1300+ in one pt. Yet I am still having a pretty rough time getting good damage returns on DE and EV. I am generally getting 14-15 tp return on Multi hits so it isn't an issue of missing hits.

FYI gear
Mandalic Stab/Shark Bite Gear
Flame Dakini 4 STR 12 atk
Thunder Dakini 4 DEX 8 acc
Bomb Core
MKD Hat 4 STR 4 DEX WS acc 15 Crit Damage 2%
Flame Gorget (Spike Necklace for SB)
Delta Earring
Brutal Earring
Dragon Harness
Hecatomb Mittens
Rajas Ring
Spinel Ring
Amemet Mantle +1
Cuchulain's Belt
Enkidu's Subligar
Hecatomb Leggings

DE/EV Gear
Flame Dakini
Thunder Dakini
Fire Bomblet
MKD Hat
Soil Gorget
Delta Earring
Brutal Earring
ACP Body +10 acc
Hecatomb Mittens (RA +1 on TA)
Rajas Ring
Spinel Ring
Cuchulain's Mantle
Cuchulain's Belt
Enkidu's Subligar
Hecatomb Leggings

Generally I use pizza for food, my acc has been good enough lately though, that I am thinking about going with yellow curry. I have been getting +10 bonus to all stats in Abyssea too. I just don't understand why there is such disparity.
#2 Jul 27 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Pretty sure this has nothing to do with Abyssea as an area. What monsters were you fighting and what did they con? I am guessing you were fighting IT+ monsters which explains why shark bite and mandalic stab did well and DE and EV were falling behind. And a stat boost of 10+ to all stats favours shark bite and mandalic stab more then it does DE and EV.
#3 Jul 27 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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I am talking about general xp mobs in Abyssea. Mandies, Lizards, Crapaoudies, Spirits, Giants, Bats so far. It is just wierd.
#4 Jul 27 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I think once abyssea mobs are fully leveled up, thier def gets pretty high. I have noticed on thf that even with 450ish attack with pizzas, my melee damage per hit starts to dive off once i hit 400-500 exp per mob tier.

Could all be in my head, as i have not done parse states to compare avg melee damage per hit yet.
Guess i need to do some parses in tiers of 100xp. and compare avg melee damage per hit, ws damage (I will just use all 4 in rotation), and acc. See if anything changes at certian exp points, or if once the mobs check IT, if there is no change in def or evasion of the mobs.

However, for pickup runs, i kinda doubt it matters. Even with over 1/2 the alliance being noobs, a couple of good dd and mages combined with a great puller make it dam hard to not get crazy exp. Once you hit that 600 exp tier and are rotating out noobs the exp bars fill up so fast it begins to seem like 3-5 poeple are always out spending merits/or changing jobs. At this point, who really cares about max damages anymore. Fatigue prolly causes more damage loss at that point than mob stats.

No idea where my rambling is going. Time to find out some info.
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#5 Jul 27 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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I personnally havent noticed a drop off in damage past a certain point. I have a parse of my averages from last night, but that does sound a bit low. But my setupis are comparable to yours....maybe slightly different
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#6 Jul 28 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Good
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You are forgeting attack on your WS gear.

450 attack is very low attack on ABysea exp mobs

With this gear set up. Iam getting Solo Dancing edge 600 - 900 range.

Flame Dakini 16 attack 6 str
Thunder Dakini 12 accuracy 6 DEX
Bomblet 6 attack 6 accuracy
Head optical hat
Love torque 5 DEX 7 Dagger skill
Merman
Brutal earring
Hecatomb harness
Hecatomb mittens
Kusha ring 12 accuracy 6 attack set
Lava ring 12 accuracy 6 attack set
Forager mantle 3 str 15 attack
Potent belt 8 accuracy 3 str
Expansion legs 7 attack 7 accuracy 2 Dex
Feet Hecatomb leggings

My dagger skill at lv 80 is 317 full merits my base dex is 74

I have 422 accuracy and 450 attack.

There not a reason for you not are eating red curry bun. They are 100k in AH right now. The mandragoras cant steal you the food. Red curry bun give 130 - 150 attack.

My pdif is abysmal comparing red curry vs pizza.

In abysea is very hard stack WS. Because you have 15 people moving the mob and bLMS nuking it.

I think in abysea is a good option solo ws often than try stack.

I was using my thief in abysea, like a pro and ended after 4 hours. With my hands destroyed and with lots of head pain.

I really love thief but i feel abysea like dynamis, the mob dye too quickly for separate JA, Stack WS every fight. Thief is the only job i did not enjoyed use that in abysea. I lose in the parse for a big margin and until i tried play that in a way more easy, is when i started having fun and beat decent dds.

I Feel happy with solo DE in 600 - 900 range and stacked 1200 - 1500 range. When feint is on i add even more attack and more dex, and take some accuracy items off.

There abysea temporal item, You can get that often, that item give you accuracy and 100 attack, when i used that item my attack is over 700 and my Dancing edge numbers are even better.

For end this with your actual DE Gear. I think with red curry bun and bard or Red curry + stward potion. You can get crazy numbers even higher than MS.
#7 Jul 28 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Brd/Cor [Do you have it?]

As said above, its probably an attack issue, but there is no way to really get enough acc and atk just from food/gear on IT mobs. Im sure you know this, but basically you can get acc from food, stats for base damage from gear, and rely on buffs for atk. You get a little attack from food/gear (pizza/Blau etc) but not nearly enough for IT mobs. Ill bet my gil that the "6-800" solo DE party had some min/chaos action and probably piercing bonus to boot. SB and especially MS do far better with low attack, and dont forget we just got a 5% damage boost on the 1st and most powerful hit of a SA/TA WS. Also, if you are actually stacking SA+TA+WS, that 5% crit boost piled on with Mandalic stab's atk bonus, or SB's huge FTP/WSC will mean some serious damage as you noted.

Short answer, DE needs more attack and our crit trait makes SB/MS a hair better also. If your acc is fine, but atk is lacking, try out Evis when you need an unstacked WS. You can probably get better returns so long as you have decent dex build and enough acc for the crits to counter your low attack better than say DE, and you get your 5% more crit damage boost.
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#8 Jul 28 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm in a 4 person static killing lizards every other night for 60 minutes. I eat squid sushi and am not getting any buffs other than stoneskin and haste. I'm hitting SA/DE in the 1k range a lot and I'd say average is 850-900. I've capped at 1389. Here is my SA/DE gear:

main B.D.
off S.K.
head Walahra Turban
neck Chivalrous chain
ear Coral earring
ear Brutal earring
body Dragon harness
hands War gloves +1
ring Rajas ring
ring spinel ring
back Amemet mantle +1
waist Warwolf belt
legs Dragon subligar
feet Aurore Gaiters

That said, I'm unloading TA/DE or SA/DE every 30 sec or so and am not sure about WS only #'s.

P.S. Please don't laugh at my turban for SA/DE and I know I need to start working on daggers, but I'm waiting until the next level cap to see what is added to the game that does not require a large grind. I got upset when I put all that time into the OAT dagger that needed verthandi eyes to finish and I've never once seen a shout for a verthandi party. Doesn't look like it is in my future :(
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Thf 79 / War 76 / Nin 51 / Bst 26 / Blm 20 / Mnk 16 / Rdm 9 / Whm 21 / Rng 2 / Smn 1 / Sam 1
Merits: Dagger 8/8, Crit 4/4, Triple Attack 5/5, Aura Steal 1/?, Ambush 1/?, & Feint 1/?
Woodworking (74) Fishing (82)
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?74158
#9 Jul 28 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Acidskie wrote:
I'm in a 4 person static killing lizards every other night for 60 minutes. I eat squid sushi and am not getting any buffs other than stoneskin and haste. I'm hitting SA/DE in the 1k range a lot and I'd say average is 850-900. I've capped at 1389. Here is my SA/DE gear:

main B.D.
off S.K.
head Walahra Turban
neck Chivalrous chain
ear Coral earring
ear Brutal earring
body Dragon harness
hands War gloves +1
ring Rajas ring
ring spinel ring
back Amemet mantle +1
waist Warwolf belt
legs Dragon subligar
feet Aurore Gaiters

That said, I'm unloading TA/DE or SA/DE every 30 sec or so and am not sure about WS only #'s.

P.S. Please don't laugh at my turban for SA/DE and I know I need to start working on daggers, but I'm waiting until the next level cap to see what is added to the game that does not require a large grind. I got upset when I put all that time into the OAT dagger that needed verthandi eyes to finish and I've never once seen a shout for a verthandi party. Doesn't look like it is in my future :(


I find this very hard to believe for a few reasons.

1. You are 76 by your profile
2. When I did lizards, I parsed it, and I parsed 70% acc with pizza @ 77 with capped dagger skill + 8 merits, and my stacked WS were averaging 550 on the parse. (I will post later)
3. I have to say this, but you have pretty weak gear (War beret would be better than Wally turban man)
#10 Jul 28 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Acidskie wrote:
I'm in a 4 person static killing lizards every other night for 60 minutes.

That means you are fighting the weak version of these lizards. Normal monsters in Abyssea start out low: DC, T, VT. Then as you start killing faster and more the repops will become a higher level. LordTrey already mentioned this.

So those numbers were done on weak lizards. Which are totally different from the ones Meldi is talking about in the OP.
Also get an Aurore Beret or something. The thing costs like 20-30k only. Or get it for free with the cruor you saved up.


@Mel: you could make a small and free improvement if you swap out Brutal earring for Aesir ear pendant (+7 attack). And upgrade your daggers to the Kila version (pretty obvious I know but had to say it anyway.)

Edited, Jul 29th 2010 12:29am by Breaze

Edited, Jul 29th 2010 12:35am by Breaze
#11 Jul 28 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry for the bad data in my signature. I don't update it much, but Thf is 79 currently. Acid bolts are another thing I forgot to mention. Sorry a 2nd time LOL.

And I don't know what to tell you except I do it.

I'm just a few hundred cruor from my aurore beret. Will have it by the end of the night. And I'll pay a little more attention to what the mobs con, but I'm pretty sure killing lizards for an hour puts them into the IT range. I'll check tonight to be safe

Sig is updated now.

Edited, Jul 28th 2010 10:36pm by Acidskie
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Thf 79 / War 76 / Nin 51 / Bst 26 / Blm 20 / Mnk 16 / Rdm 9 / Whm 21 / Rng 2 / Smn 1 / Sam 1
Merits: Dagger 8/8, Crit 4/4, Triple Attack 5/5, Aura Steal 1/?, Ambush 1/?, & Feint 1/?
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?74158
#12 Jul 29 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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What the others have said about attack is the reason your damage is so low on multi hit and it's not weird at all. Remember that against higher defense mobs shark bite and mandalic stab excel and it's dancing edge and evisceration that fall behind. Here is a pair of screenshots from my linkshell abyssean run where I dinged level 80. This was a 6 hour long marathon in Abyssea-Tahrongo against Blood Bats. Keeping in mind that I was fighting piercing weak mobs I too thought my weaponskills were underperforming so I opened up Kparser.

Screenshot


I didn't have a bard at the time so the pizza screenshot had an attack rating in the vicinity of 450 and the meat shot would have been in the vicinity of 480. I'm not sure if the parses were taken when I was still level 77-80, or after I had dinged 80 or if my dagger skill had recapped yet or not. Nevertheless it drills home the point that my attack was way too low to see numbers I usually do. My dagger's base damage was 34 (x's knife mainhanded at the time) and my melee strikes were hitting for negative base damage (I was at approximately 0.8% pDIF when you remember these were piercing mobs). From the looks of it I would have needed about 550-600 attack or so to hit 1.0 pDIF and going from there more attack would have given me increasing returns. These bats had monstrous defense and when I began using shark bite I was hitting weaponskills in the range of 1100-1300 instead of the 700-800 dancing edges I had been doing previously. Abyssean mobs in general have really high defense and you usually won't have enough attack subbing /nin to throw out particularly large numbers unless you're getting hefty bonuses via minuet or chaos roll. So in these situations it's normal for shark bite to do more damage than multi hit.

Edited, Jul 30th 2010 3:52pm by Melphina
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#13 Jul 30 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Btw - in our 4 man we are not getting the 3-400 xp/kill mobs. So while we are killing IT's... they are not the IT++ ++++ versions.

There is nothing to see here. Move along.
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Thf 79 / War 76 / Nin 51 / Bst 26 / Blm 20 / Mnk 16 / Rdm 9 / Whm 21 / Rng 2 / Smn 1 / Sam 1
Merits: Dagger 8/8, Crit 4/4, Triple Attack 5/5, Aura Steal 1/?, Ambush 1/?, & Feint 1/?
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#14 Jul 30 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Default
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What are people talking about with this "the mobs level up" stuff? I've gained ~300k in Abyssea parties and I've seen nothing of the sort.

Exp per mob can gradually increase (up to a max of 600xp/kill), but it has nothing to do with the mob's level; it has to do with the lights that you get depending on the type of killshot (and the lights you get from popping red chests). So where is this whole "they start DC but then become IT+++++" idea coming from? The day I walked into Abyssea-Tahrongi as a LV76, the mandies checked IT. I haven't checked them at LV80 but I've never seen a DC mob in Abyssea, period.
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#15 Jul 30 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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RVW, I have seen DCs, usually in families that aren't camped much except to get pop items. Limule and Clionids I have seen anywhere from EP to IT++.

I guess it is normal, I just found it odd how soundly my 1 hit WS were outperforming my multihit weapons on these things. I guess I will have to try to get some atmas or something that enhance attack significantly at this point. The one that is supposedly off of Briarius would be nice. +30 STR and an undefined "Superior" bonus to atk. Yes please!
#16 Jul 30 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I haven't checked them at LV80 but I've never seen a DC mob in Abyssea, period.

Trust me there are plenty.

@Meldi: the atmas are hard to get and you need a Lunar Abyssite to be able to use them. This Lunar Abyssite is also hard to get because you need to pop and kill Glavoid or Kukulkan or Briareus. And only the person that pops these NM gets Lunar Abyssite.

What I suggest and which is more easy: work on fame by doing quests. Specifically for Abyssea - La Theine. Because when you complete the quest "An Eye for Revenge" you get Scarlet Abyssite of Furtherance which will double your stat buffs if you decide to buy them in Abyssea. Normal attribute bonuses from the Cruor Prospector give +10 to stats, but with this key item, they will give +20.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Abyssite_of_Furtherance

There are more interesting Abyssites you can get just by doing quests.

*edit*
Apparently you don't have to pop Glavoid or Kukulkan or Briareus in order to get Lunar Abyssite. I just zoned into konshat highlands and just gotten Lunar Abyssite because I killed Kukulkan and I got title from it. Not sure if title is a 100% drop when you kill it.
My original point still stands though Atmas are hard to get.

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 1:11pm by Breaze
#17 Jul 31 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Breaze wrote:
Apparently you don't have to pop Glavoid or Kukulkan or Briareus in order to get Lunar Abyssite. I just zoned into konshat highlands and just gotten Lunar Abyssite because I killed Kukulkan and I got title from it. Not sure if title is a 100% drop when you kill it.
My original point still stands though Atmas are hard to get.


Yeah, you don't have to pop it, you just have to zone using the maw to get the Lunar Abyssite to get credit for the quest. Anyway, we killed Briarius last week, so I have the lunar abyssite already. Just don't have any atmas to go with it. I have started quests in all the zones, I plan on getting all the Abyssites I can. I am really interested in trying to get the one from tonberries in Konsnatch right now though.
#18 Sep 01 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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My Thf has out parsed about 90% of the Heavy DD in Abyssea Parties. Both in DPS & WS.
Solo DE averages 900-1.2k.
SADE usually lands 1.4k-1.6k. occasionally spiking around 2k.
This is on Mithra with 5/5 Str Merit, abyssea enhancements, & pizza.

///TP Build

Main: Kila +6STR +16Att
Sub: Kila +6STR +16Att
Ammo: Bomblet +6Att +6Acc
Head: Turban +5 Haste
Neck: P.C. +10 Acc
Ear: Brutal +Double Att
Ear: Sarabande +2Chr +2Acc
Body: Rapparee +4 Haste
Hands: Homams +3 Haste +4Acc
Ring: Kusha's +3 Att +6Acc
Ring: Lava's +3 Att +6Acc
Back: Foragers +3Str +15Att
Waist: Swift +4 Haste +3Acc -5Att
Legs: Aurore +3 Haste +9Acc
Feet: Homams +3 Haste +6Acc

Unbuffed Totals: Att:414 Acc:+46 Haste:+22 Str:84 Dex:82

///Dancing Edge

Main: Kila +6Str +12Att
Sub: Kila +6Str +12Att
Ammo: Bomblet +6Att +6Acc
Head: M.Mask +3Dex +11Acc
Neck: P.C. +10Acc
Ear: Melody +1 +2Chr
Ear: Sarabande +2Chr +2Acc
Body: Heca +12Str +10Acc
Hands: Heca +4Dex +7Str
Ring: Thunder +5Dex
Ring: Raja's +5Dex +5Str
Back: Foragers +3Str +15Att
Waist: Warwolf +5Dex +5Str
Legs: T.Trunks +5Dex +5Chr +18Att
Feet: L.Boots +6Dex +6Agi

Unbuffed Totals: Att:451 Acc:+33 Str:113 Dex:115 Chr:57
#19 Sep 02 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
My Thf has out parsed about 90% of the Heavy DD in Abyssea Parties. Both in DPS & WS.
Solo DE averages 900-1.2k.
SADE usually lands 1.4k-1.6k. occasionally spiking around 2k.
This is on Mithra with 5/5 Str Merit, abyssea enhancements, & pizza.


You show me those numbers without a minuets/chaos and ill be impressed and praise you for haxing the game. Thats the whole point of this thread is that you simply will not see those numbers without some rather large atk buffs, not that we cannot hit those numbers at all. Also show me those numbers parsed instead of eyeballed. Average is not a range. Given your gear thats very much on the high side of eyeballing. You also failed to mention(if those #s are anything remotely close to what you actually do) that these look like they are on piercing weak mobs based on gear etc.

The question isnt "can thf do 1k DE, 1.5k stacked?" its "How do I make my DE do better when they mine arent matching the hype about our uber WS damage?".

The answer is 2 part. 1: brd/cor attack buffs, dias, angons, lv 80, combined with 2: Most 'accounts' of WS damage are anecdotal, unscientific, and taken out of contexy, (dont state factors like "I had chaos/min" and mob type piercing or not etc) and therefore somewhat exaggerated.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 12:02pm by Banalaty
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99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
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