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Ideal SJ for thief?Follow

#1 Jul 14 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
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What's the common, most accepted SJ for Thieves nowadays? Is it still /NIN for the most part? Just curious, I know it was hard enough for THF to get parties back then regardless of subjob.
#2 Jul 14 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Didn't play for 2 years but seems /NIN is still major.

There's a point where /WAR give you more attack and some would argue it's a better choice, but later proved still subpar to /NIN due to dual wield delay and offhand hit, plus missing the off hand dagger stats bonus which is getting bigger and bigger with the new daggers.

Thinking back my THF days and FFXI in general, it want to declare that /NIN is a curse of FFXI. /NIN give such distinct advantage to many 1 hand classes that effectively eliminates most main/sub combinations which could have been decent and fun to play.

Think about how stupid PLD/NIN sounds outside of FFXI circle...

The highest hp, defense class that can cure, can negative physical damage and (given enough time to start) can build and maintain max hate on all (most?) HNM.

For the love of god no /NIN with shadows BS in FF14. Please...
#3 Jul 15 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Parisa wrote:
What's the common, most accepted SJ for Thieves nowadays? Is it still /NIN for the most part? Just curious, I know it was hard enough for THF to get parties back then regardless of subjob.


/NIN and once level caps reaches 90 it will be even more true.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#4 Jul 15 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
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sarsha2 wrote:


Thinking back my THF days and FFXI in general, it want to declare that /NIN is a curse of FFXI. /NIN give such distinct advantage to many 1 hand classes that effectively eliminates most main/sub combinations which could have been decent and fun to play.


Want to know how they could fix this?

Give THF a stance that reduces 1H weapon delay, adds ATT and ACC and increases critical hit rate at a low enough level that it can be subbed. Also when active 1H weapons will get a 50% DEX bonus on Sneak Attack from THF sub.

THF becomes /SAM for 1H DD's basically.

____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#5 Jul 15 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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sarsha2 wrote:
Thinking back my THF days and FFXI in general, it want to declare that /NIN is a curse of FFXI. /NIN give such distinct advantage to many 1 hand classes that effectively eliminates most main/sub combinations which could have been decent and fun to play.

[...]

For the love of god no /NIN with shadows BS in FF14. Please...

Utsusemi is the single most innovative thing FFXI has to offer, and without it the game would have been ten times worse. I don't think it's an understatement to say that that spell defines this game.
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#6 Jul 15 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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It is an innovative thing and it's part of FFXI uniqueness, but that doesn't mean the game can't be better without it.

Surely THF (and a lot of class) without /NIN will suck, but that's because it's overpowered. They should balance the basic of the classes instead.

SE just don't have the guts to fix that hole and instead let more and more people to be dependent on it.

It could have been the number of shadows used is dependent on the actual damage absorbed, that way people can still use the spell for protection, but PLD (comeon, it's a /NIN, not a NIN) won't be mitigating 90% of physical damage of most HNM.

The entire art of keeping shadows up and keeping max haste on PLD might require some skill, but once you get used to it, every fight is the same. PLD build hate, BRD RDM keep hasting, WHM keep spamming cure.

The spell might be innovative but it's limiting creativity at the end, because anything else is so less efficient and unsafe that no LS will do them.
#7 Jul 15 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not utsusemi's fault that no other for of damage mitigation does anything.
However I don't see what so wring about a pld subbing nin...
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#8 Jul 15 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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sarsha2 wrote:
It could have been the number of shadows used is dependent on the actual damage absorbed, that way people can still use the spell for protection, but PLD (comeon, it's a /NIN, not a NIN) won't be mitigating 90% of physical damage of most HNM.

Ninjutsu stoneskin would do virtually nothing to address the issues in this game.

Could SE completely revamp the damage mechanics of the game, making DEF/VIT matter and bloodtanking feasible? Sure. But why should they when there is already a perfectly reasonable mechanism in place? It's not like there is any objective reason to promote bloodtanking over blink tanking.
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Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#9 Jul 15 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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redvenomweb wrote:
sarsha2 wrote:
It could have been the number of shadows used is dependent on the actual damage absorbed, that way people can still use the spell for protection, but PLD (comeon, it's a /NIN, not a NIN) won't be mitigating 90% of physical damage of most HNM.

Ninjutsu stoneskin would do virtually nothing to address the issues in this game.

Could SE completely revamp the damage mechanics of the game, making DEF/VIT matter and bloodtanking feasible? Sure. But why should they when there is already a perfectly reasonable mechanism in place? It's not like there is any objective reason to promote bloodtanking over blink tanking.


This is an age old discussion that predates my involvement in the game. To a degree, I do agree with RVW. However, as food for thought, while it may not be objective, I do think it would be more fun if there were options other than "Everything that matters must be blink-tanked". More fun, in this case, just from being able to choose from two nearly equivalent options.

That being said, SE likely will not ever fix the underlying issue. That being that most enemies wield D110/Delay 240 weapons.
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#10 Jul 15 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Default
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sarsha2 wrote:
It is an innovative thing and it's part of FFXI uniqueness, but that doesn't mean the game can't be better without it.

Surely THF (and a lot of class) without /NIN will suck, but that's because it's overpowered. They should balance the basic of the classes instead.

SE just don't have the guts to fix that hole and instead let more and more people to be dependent on it.

It could have been the number of shadows used is dependent on the actual damage absorbed, that way people can still use the spell for protection, but PLD (comeon, it's a /NIN, not a NIN) won't be mitigating 90% of physical damage of most HNM.

The entire art of keeping shadows up and keeping max haste on PLD might require some skill, but once you get used to it, every fight is the same. PLD build hate, BRD RDM keep hasting, WHM keep spamming cure.

The spell might be innovative but it's limiting creativity at the end, because anything else is so less efficient and unsafe that no LS will do them.


What you are basically asking for is for SE to nerf the optimal build. If they do this people would just find another optimal build and do that instead. You are not going to get people do use a variety of different ways to accomplish a task. They will find whatever is most efficient and stick with it. It is human nature to do this.

What you are asking for is impossible. It is the nature of MMOs (and in fact nearly everything) that there will always be an optimal way of accomplishing a thing. It is impossible to perfectly balance everything. The only thing you can do to prevent it is keep nerfing the optimal build and if they keep doing that eventually people will just get pissed off and quit the game.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#11 Jul 15 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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This thread has derailed, lol.
Well they have offered a "solution" to the mundaneity, I suppose. And that solution is that they've sporadically introduced particular mobs that you're worse off blink-tanking. I can't really think of any single mob off the top of my head, because oftentimes people say "you can't blink tank this" (i.e. Yilbegan) and later on they turn out to be false. But if they just continue to introduce mobs into the game that frequently use AOE's, have a high rate of attack or triple attack, have moves that go through shadows, etc.. then this would be a much better way of keeping the game varied, without having to change the game mechanics.
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