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Respectable AHable/Mercable equipsets at lvl 80Follow

#1 Jul 12 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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All,

I read Shamaya's Best Equip Sets thread and would love some help on equip sets that suite my purposes. I have THF at 75 and I'm planning to take the job to 80; however it will likely never be my main job. On that note, I'd like to have a decent equip set for THF but don't want to spend too much time/money to obtain items that provide a marginal increase. Can you all help me build a few sets that provide me the most bang for the buck?

AH, mercing Sky/Limbus/Dynamis mercs are not a problem but I'd like to keep it at less than 3M per equip slot (if it's 3M it better be good).

Basic Sets: TP, WS (DE/Evis), SA, TA

Here's what I was thinking (correct me or help me fill in the blanks)

TP:
Weapons - No idea, is Blau still relevant? If not, which Magians have the best time/reward ratio?
Head - Walahra
Neck - Peacock
Earrings - Brutal/Suppa
Body - Mirke/Reparree
Hands - Aurore or Homam?
Rings - Rajas/Snipers
Back - Ammemit +1
Waist - Swift
Legs - Aurore?
Feet - Homam?

WS
DE/Evis
Head - Heca?
Neck - Sea gorget?
Earrings - ???
Body - Heca?
Hands - Heca?
Rings - Rajas/Snipers?
Back - Ammemit +1
Waist - Virtuoso belt?
Legs - ??? (No way i'll be able to get heca legs)
Feet - Heca?

SA/TA
No idea at all. Heca for SA?

I appreciate your help and input. Building a basic AH Sam was relatively easy (Buy hagun, get 6 hit with max haste, and moar Str while keeping 6 hit for WS) but I'm scratching my head with THF due to SA,TA and the different WS mods and how Atk/accuracy plays into it.

Thanks in advance!
Tizona

#2 Jul 12 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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TP:
Weapons - Blau real cheap now and still one of our greatest daggers, acc+ kila, atk+ kila, sirocco are all good daggers
Neck - Peacock
Earrings - Brutal/Suppa
Body - Mirke/Raparree
Hands - Aurore are cheap, also dusk until you get homam
Rings - Rajas/Snipers
Back - Cuchulain is getting cheaper, or you could try getting an azure key from acp fei'yin mark of seed mission and hope for an acc +6-7 beak mantle
Waist - Swift (easy soloable now)
Legs - Aurore
Feet - Aurore until you get homam

WS
DE/Evis
Head - Heca is great
Neck - Sea gorget
Earrings - Brutal, Merman
Body - Heca, dragon harness
Hands - Heca, enkidu's
Rings - Rajas/ any dex5+
Back - use your tp back piece here
Waist - Virtuoso belt is fine
Legs - might want to look into tumblers trunks, or oily trousers, can even use aurore if you fell you need extra acc
Feet - Heca

SA/TA
for SA and TA use which ever piece has the most dex (SA) or agi (TA) for its slot
#3 Jul 12 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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AHable and cheap/easy

TP

Back: Sharpeye mantle (acc 12) will give you a ton of acc obviosly, which will help to free up other slots
Legs: Aurore (acc 9, racc 9 haste 3) cheap/easy to farm for, **** good all around TP legs
Hands: Aurore/dusk. Homam optimal, but if you don't farm for it, either one of these are pretty decent
Feet: Aurore/dusk. Either one again, probably would go with aurore to double as solo SA feet. Again Homam optimal

Everything else you have listed is pretty good.

WS

Head: Anwig (4 dex 4 str 15 WS acc crit 2%). Depending on how often you go after heca this will be much easier (and less expensive) replacement.
Neck: Soil gorget covers mostly everything
Body: depending on how much you want to spend, Antares Harness is pretty much best all around piece. Dragon/+1 is a bit more viable now since there is more acc gear and dagger skill has gone up. heca not that great unless you have mandau.
Hands: not too sure on this. Not many AHable options. Enkidu's would be second to Heca, but if you do more sky than ZNM then heca would of course be easier to come by.
Rings: would use cheap dex+4/+5 ring over snipers.
Waist: cuchu's is going down, but still the most expensive option. Warwolf is still pretty viable to use. Virtuoso fine if you REALLY need the extra attack, but like I said before, with the level cap going up, dagger skill acc isn't so bad on existing mobs.
Legs: Tumbler trunks (DEX 5 CHR 5 att 18) would be optimal (if no heca) and are fairly easy to farm for from abyssea. Oily are plummeting in price and are good for all around WS and solo TA.
Feet: heca if you can get it, enkidu if your ls does znm, aurore for cheap alternative until you get one of the other two.

Ammo: fire bomblet is going down so should be easy to snag, bomb core if your acc is good (optimal for solo SA/TA)

Weapons: depending on how much time you want to put into them (from what you said, I assume you're not going to be putting a whole lot of time into THF, thus my suggestions). I would at the very least get a fully upgraded Thunder kila (DMG 38 DEX 6 acc 12). Blau still good and prices are going down, but by the next update it might be overshadowed even more. If I were you I would go after the DMG 37 delay 186 STP+8 fusetto. Out of all the trials to start from scratch this is the easiest to finish and would provide a decent balance with the thunder kila.


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Gearsets/etc
#4 Jul 13 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Kalisa wrote:
Body: depending on how much you want to spend, Antares Harness is pretty much best all around piece. Dragon/+1 is a bit more viable now since there is more acc gear and dagger skill has gone up. heca not that great unless you have mandau.


I would say save your money and stick to Mirke with this unless you have money to burn. Solo WS on Mirke are potentially more powerful, and are at least as powerful as Antares. SA or TA WS have a slight damage advantage to Antares, but not enough for the price.

All this is moot if you have the money to burn though. If you do, then I say Solo WS in Mirke, Stacked WS in Antares.

Edit: Talking about multi-hits, SB and Mandalic Stab definately go for Dragon/+1 imo.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 9:55am by Meldi
#5 Jul 13 2010 at 11:12 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I have THF at 75

Quote:
SA/TA
No idea at all. Heca for SA?

Quote:
Weapons - No idea,

Quote:
Earrings - ???


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#6 Jul 13 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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I appreciate all (or most) of your replies, I'll probably work on that accuracy Dakini then.

On the accusation that I bought my account, I didn't. I just think gear choices were a lot easier on 1-74 (where it was Stack Dex/Agi as appropriate until you vomit) then 75+. On why I'm asking "basic" questions, I think THF is a lot more complicated than other DD where usually boils down to get this one weapon (Hagun, Perdu, blahblah), get X-hit, use this for WS. For example:

1) SA - How does Heca's +str balance out with it's +slow%? Is the additional damage (if any) worth the longer swing?
2) Weapons - **** was easy at 75. 95% of the time you'll have blau. The other knife would be X's, sirroco, augmented, etc depending on what you're willing to do. With Magians, I didn't know if a certain combo would be both easy and good. Ex: with the accuracy knife you might be able to swap the accuracy +12 mantle with the + atk mantle, etc.
3) Earrings - How does Brutal/Suppa compare to Pixie and Atk earrings for SA/TA?

#7 Jul 13 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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Tizona wrote:
I appreciate all (or most) of your replies, I'll probably work on that accuracy Dakini then.

On the accusation that I bought my account, I didn't. I just think gear choices were a lot easier on 1-74 (where it was Stack Dex/Agi as appropriate until you vomit) then 75+. On why I'm asking "basic" questions, I think THF is a lot more complicated than other DD where usually boils down to get this one weapon (Hagun, Perdu, blahblah), get X-hit, use this for WS. For example:

1) SA - How does Heca's +str balance out with it's +slow%? Is the additional damage (if any) worth the longer swing?
2) Weapons - sh*t was easy at 75. 95% of the time you'll have blau. The other knife would be X's, sirroco, augmented, etc depending on what you're willing to do. With Magians, I didn't know if a certain combo would be both easy and good. Ex: with the accuracy knife you might be able to swap the accuracy +12 mantle with the + atk mantle, etc.
3) Earrings - How does Brutal/Suppa compare to Pixie and Atk earrings for SA/TA?



1. Something I personally wouldn't worry about...yeah there are some here that are concerned about the delay between your SA/TA/WS and your next melee round, but for the most part if you're optimizing for those, the loss of attack speed for one round is compensated

2. I do however agree with the general consensus of maxing out your accuracy first and from there make adjustments to attack/str/etc. But yeah, acc first is a good rule to go by.

3. Brutal is TP (and arguably for WS but some would debate it). Suppa is tp only as well since you can get cheap AGI earrings for solo TA to beat it. The only earring I would even consider to use over a 3 DEX/AGI ear would be aeser (7 att).
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Elemental Magian Dagger Guide
Gearsets/etc
#8 Jul 13 2010 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Tizona wrote:

Quote:
On the accusation that I bought my account, I didn't. I just think gear choices were a lot easier on 1-74 (where it was Stack Dex/Agi as appropriate until you vomit) then 75+


It doesn't matter if you bought your account or not, you still did it wrong from 1-75.

The concept for tp/ws on all melee jobs are pretty much the same, the only thing on thief that makes a slight difference is viper bite and SA/TA. Viper bite ends at 60 which pretty much makes gearing for thief like gearing for almost any other melee jobs.

For tp, having a good hit rate or haste is just as important on thief as any other job. It may require different amounts depending on if you are using a 1h or 2h weapon. Some jobs may shave off a hit by taking advantage of x-hit build but in the end, they still need the acc/haste/att to make it worthwhile.

For ws, if you understand the difference between multi hit ws and single hit ws as well as how they work on acc/att/mods then the rules apply to all jobs. If you know how SA and TA works in conjunction with a WS then you still apply the rules.

Thief is no different than any other job. It's just screwed up because people think it's a magical job that works by breaking the mathematical rules of FFXI.

Let us know what you don't understand about the game mechanics and we will help you. That way you shouldn't have much trouble at all deciding what gear helps you the most by yourself.
#9 Jul 14 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
4 posts
Quote:
It doesn't matter if you bought your account or not, you still did it wrong from 1-75.

The concept for tp/ws on all melee jobs are pretty much the same, the only thing on thief that makes a slight difference is viper bite and SA/TA. Viper bite ends at 60 which pretty much makes gearing for thief like gearing for almost any other melee jobs.

For tp, having a good hit rate or haste is just as important on thief as any other job. It may require different amounts depending on if you are using a 1h or 2h weapon. Some jobs may shave off a hit by taking advantage of x-hit build but in the end, they still need the acc/haste/att to make it worthwhile.

For ws, if you understand the difference between multi hit ws and single hit ws as well as how they work on acc/att/mods then the rules apply to all jobs. If you know how SA and TA works in conjunction with a WS then you still apply the rules.

Thief is no different than any other job. It's just screwed up because people think it's a magical job that works by breaking the mathematical rules of FFXI.

Let us know what you don't understand about the game mechanics and we will help you. That way you shouldn't have much trouble at all deciding what gear helps you the most by yourself.


I don't understand where I went "wrong" 1-74. I hope you're not misunderstanding my statement to mean I stacked dex/agi while TPing. My reference to stacking Agi/Dex was in reference to SA and TA.

Regardless, most if not all DD jobs have a definite gear path from 1-75 due to the lack of Haste gear and just gear that outshines all other options at that level. As you said, it's pretty easy. For TP, you opened your browser to Wiki, looked up the mob you were fighting for level/evasion values (Lolibri at 54), opened FFXI Calc, stuck your info in there to look up your accuracy rate, cry at your accuracy rate, cursed the 2h bonus, buy some **** sushi/pizza because you'll need it, then just ball park whether to use haste instead of accuracy in certain slots (scorpion vs. rapparee) using the increase in accuracy vs. 1/(1-(hastegear+hastespell)) because you probably won't be getting invited to a PT with a Brd. For WS, VB was a no brainer. For unstacked DE, your accuracy was probably so bad you had to keep most of your accuracy gear on just to get a reasonable hit rate and stuck on the other gear where you couldn't stuff in too much accuracy.

Stuff like the below is something I was hoping to gain (copied from Shamaya's LJ):

Quote:
SA
(head) Maat's Cap (26.46) > Skadi's Visor (25.41) > Gnadbhod's Helm (13.84) > AF2 (12.9) = Turban (13.25) > Emp.Pin (7.74) > Heca+1 (0.84)
(neck) Love Torque (20.04) > Kubira Bead Necklace (15.08) > Spike Necklace (11.34)
(ears) Suppanomimi (10.8) > Pixie (7.74) => Merman's (7.14) > Hollow/Adroit (5.16) = Coral (5.95) = Brutal (5.0)
(body) Dragon Harness+1 (32.34) > DH nq (27.38) = Skadi (26.59) > Anatares Harness (20.64) > Enkidu's Harness (17.9) > BlueCote+1 (16.32) > WarAketon +1 (12.9) > Rapp (10.6)
(hand) ANNM Dragon Mitts (20.44) > Skadi Bazubands (17.9) > Dusk+1(2xMarch) (17.74)* > Enkidu's (15.12) => Tarasque Mitts +1 (14.28) => Dusk(2xMarch) (13.9)* > Merman's (8.94) > AF (7.74) > Heca +1 (4.02)
(rings) Rajas Ring (18.9) > 5Dex Ring (12.9)
(back) Charger's (23.8) => Cerberus Mantle +1 (22.65) > Forager's (21.45) > Amemet +1 (20.25) > Cuchulain's (15.12) > Commander's (11.34) > AF2 (10.32)
(waist) Cuchulain's Belt (27.38) > Ninurta's (23.04) > Warwolf (18.9) > Speed Belt (15.9) > Swordbelt +1 (14.28)
(leg)Enkidu's (18.9) > Dusk (16.66)* > Hecatomb Subligar +1 (12.44) = Heca nq (12.76) > Dragon+1 (12.9) = Barbarossa's (12.75) > Dragon nq (10.32)
(feet) Enkidu's (17.8) > Dragon +1(13.89) > Dragon (10.12) => Dusk (10.06)* > Leapers (7.74)

TA
(head) Maat's Cap (35.21) > Skadi's Visor (33.02) > Denali Bonnet (31.18) > Dragon+1 (16.75) > Turban (17.5) > Dragon (13.4) > Emp.Pin (11.22)
(neck) Hope Torque (16.75) > Crocodile Collar (13.4) > Love Torque (9.51) > Agile Gorget (6.7) => Justice Torque (6.45) => Tiger Stole (6.3) > Spike Necklace (5.04)
(ears) Suppanomimi (19.65) > Genin (13.4) > Drone (10.05) > Merman's (7.56) > Coral (6.3) => Brutal (5.0)
(body) Denali Jacket (44.84) > Dragon Harness +1 (41.3) > Skadi (36.22) > Enkidu's Harness (35.8) > DH nq (35.04) > Antares Harness (26.8) > BlueCote+1(24.76) > Rapp (14.0)
(hand) AF+1 (?, ~54.77) > Skadi (35.8) > Dusk+1(2xMarch) (21.56)* = Dragon+1 (20.53) > Dusk(2xMarch) (16.8)* = Dragon (15.92) => Tarasque Mitts +1 (15.12)
(rings) 5Agi Ring (16.75) > Rajas (8.4)
(back) Charger's (25.2) => Cerberus Mantle +1 (24.06) > Forager's (22.77) > Amemet +1 (21.48) > Commander's (15.09) = AF2 (14.96)
(waist) Ninurta Sash (28.56) > Speed Belt (21.0) > Grenadier Belt (18.87) > Swordbelt +1 (15.12) => Scouter's (13.4) > Ryl. Knight's Belt (10.06) > Vanguard Belt (10.17) > Warwolf Belt (8.4) => Swift Belt (7.7)
(leg) Dusk+1 (18.9)* > Dusk (17.64)* > War Brais +1 (16.75) > Barbarossa's (15.66) > WarBrais/AF (13.4) > Heca nq (-13.68) > Hecatomb Subligar +1 (-17.77)
(feet) Enkidu's (23.26) > Dragon +1 (18.74) > Dragon (13.74) > Dusk (13.3)* > Leapers (11.22)


Note the earrings and head choices (among other things). If I followed the way I geared with 1-75, I'd probably be rocking NQ Dragon for TA, a Heca cap for SA (dex+5 > Dex+3 from hairpin > 0 Dex from Turban yes?), and double drones for TA. You simply don't have the high haste situations and gear choices from 1-74 that you do 75+.

But his/her list was last updated in 2009; I wanted to know whether someone had shown the math to be incorrect or perhaps the assumptions unrealistic or perhaps just a different opinion. In addition, how does the new gear come into play (especially for someone who won't be rocking Skadi's/Ocelot's etc)?

#10 Jul 14 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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OP sounds like he has a good idea of what is going on. It's just that his main job isn't thief. That's why he's asking about 'wal-mart' (with a dash of merc) builds.

Really, even if 100% of the other people here, or anywhere for that matter, disagreed with the SA/TA analysis, I'd frown in worry but eventually have to stick by it. I have a lot of confidence in it and it's not 100% fleshed out, but I feel that the parts that aren't fleshed out compensate a bit with each other. It has a very slight bias towards haste so you might be able to downplay it very slightly. There are different values for haste in there, so you can pick the one you like. Also, it is a big deal that sometimes you sa/ta and don't follow up with another attack round (IE you kill the mob, or you run away). I'd say this pretty much balances out with the fact that the math doesn't even incorporate the extra TP you gain from faster attacks. You could also throw in 'missed' SA/TA's, which would obviously favor haste/dw/t.a./d.a. Those small details aside, the formula is pretty good. But it's complicated; if I had to guess on it, I'd say not a single other person has used the formula I posted there for their own purposes, or check its accuracy.


That was a year ago, but the basic principles behind the formula are yet to change (edit: mostly; see #4 below). The only things to look out for would be (1)I haven't updated it to our current knowledge of crit, but this is incredibly miniscule, (2)I haven't updated it for our current knowledge of pDif, which is grossly incomplete--and hey, that's almost ok, because 99% of FFXI calculations for the past years have relied on pDif information that was false (inaccurate) anyway. (3)It would have to be updated to deal with future trends in what we fight, and possible future changes in the game formulae.

(4)It doesn't account for the new crit trait. This is estimated by gobli to be 5%. But I've not seen any samples for this or any others, except for my friend's, which suggests its 10%. Still, hard to doubt gobli. I'd like to see more testing (as if we had lives.
Remedy: If you want, a mock-remedy for this would be to just multiply "spike damage stats" (dex, agi, str, atk) by 1.05 to accommodate a 5% boost from the trait. Not the perfect solution, but easy and better than nothing.

* * *

So for gearing sa/ta, I'd definitely go by my guide. Otherwise, the advice you've gotten here has been pretty good. I'll see what I can add though. Kupo head with 10acc/3haste is great for thieves that are very serious about the job, but if you're not you could just go with turban or the delicious brisk mask. Might have to change my kupo head if/when I get that. There's also the new heads with roughly 15acc/4atk on them, but they're r/ex and hard to get. I'd use your kupo head for multi-hit WS. But of course since thief isn't your main job you might have other uses for that. If you do want to use 3-mini-expansion gear for Thf though, then concerning Mirke I'd go w/ what Meldi said. I'd also get a sharpeye mantle. At this point you may want multiple builds. I mean, idk about other jobs but thief definitely should. Rapp/Forager's vs Sharpeye/Mirke for example. You can also take advantage of feint by using the low-acc build. Even as a non-main thief, you could probably make good use out of carrying Sharpeye, Cuchulain's, /and/ Forager's.

Dusk for hands prolly. I'd say aurore over dusk for feet. But really I'm sure it's a bit close. Merc as much heca and homam as you're willing/want to, really. Well, in the way of homam head and legs and body aren't very useful anymore. Legs and body have their uses. Heca body can be replaced. Heca head can be situationally (rarely? idk)be replaced by kupo head. On Asura, mercing heca head for 2-3m was definitely viable for a long time. But you have to go to Aery and talk to sellers often. For WS feet, might want to consider dragon leggings +1 or the new 6dex/6agi ones; can always try for heca. Might as well get a cuchulain's belt, but I can't really tell you to pick warwolf vs virtuoso. Depends on your WS, what you do, merits, etc. Might as well use sea gorgets for WS. I merced Love Torque for 5m but that looks to be out of your price range.

As far as newer gear, look over the 'best' thread and you should find some things. Like the new Agi neck, which is like 400k on my server atm. Not sure if it's in your price-range given that it's just for TA, but hey, it's wal-mart. Speaking of wal-mart, new rings shouldn't actually be that expensive. I recently bought an AGI ring for 1.8m--biggest financial mistake I've made in the game; dk what I was thinking. I made my second one for about 500k a week later, but of course I have synergy skill and had to look around for goldsmithers to invite to my party. My 6dex ring was only 600k as well, doing the same thing. Barely more than the 5-stat rings (str being one exception).

Ehh, lastly, if you want to know about new gear for SA/TA unstacked, just look at new gear and use the stat-by-stat analysis that I put in the guide. That's what it's there for. And use (#4) above to compensate for some of the stats if you want. Or check the 'best' thread.
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#11 Jul 14 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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I am glad you responded to this Sham because I had a question for you about this. What ratio would you give to 1% crit damage up on your ratios. I was thinking about it and I came out to just a bit under a point in dex or agi for the respective SA or TA. What is your take on this?
#12 Jul 14 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I can't give anything accurate right now. If I have some free time I could dig up the excel stuff and come up with something more solid. But imagine your average SA is doing 350Dmg, non-piercing. Let's pretend your pDif avg is at 1, so crit pDif is at 2. A point of dex would give you an average of 2 damage added. 352/350 is a ~0.57% increase. Crit Dmg +1% would add 3.5 dmg, 353.5/350 being 1% increase of course. Divide however you like, in this case Crit Dmg +1% is doing 1.75 times as much as 1dex. For TA, same conditions, a single point of agi is doing 2.3dmg per. 3.5/2.3 = ~1.52. So, using this napkin-guessing and applying it to what I've already got in my tables, this would suggest that,

DEX/AGI "Values"
For SA - 1DEX = 2.58d.a.
For TA - 1AGI = 3.35d.a.
Crit DMG+1 "Value"
For SA - +1%CritDmg = ~4.52d.a.
For TA - +1%CritDmg = ~5.09d.a.

Guess-work aside, this also doesn't account for potential crits that might occur on offhand rounds. But that is a really small contribution anyway.

Now if we want, we can loosely compare ASA to Tumbler Trunks for TA.

Edit: So this estimation would place Tumblers a decent bit above ASA for SA, but ASA significantly above Tumblers for TA.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 8:19am by Shamaya
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#13 Jul 16 2010 at 6:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you for all your replies! I will probably be mercing Homam Hands/Feet (since I can use it on Blu as well) and switching my Kupo head for THF WS( I currently have it for Sam Penta head but my SAM hasn't seen much use these days). I'll buy a Blau until I can get my Magian Daggers done.

Thanks again!
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