Thf Crit buildFollow

So Shamaya told me to make an account and post so I suppose shall.

So it had occurred to me that crit build for war had been rather fun and popular so why not try it out on the job with the highest DEX and attack speed.

The lack of Haidate and some other pieces hurts the hopes of this but I watched the patches for items that could make it a feasible build and noticed some rather decent possibilities w/o sacrificing almost any haste at the very least on birds. This is coming from a Mithra perspective so other races may have a bit more trouble, but I am even debating Dex merits with the addition of crit dmg boost at 78.

Thanks to the addition of Ocelot hands & Aurore feet, thf now has access to decent Dex/Haste combo items in those slots. Though painful to get, double Dex Kila make for an amazing Acc & Dex boost combined with a few other items my potential total will be 126Dex, more than enough for birds, maybe enough for some other mobs. Cavaros Mantle could even have a nice place in the build for Colibri or others.

I was hoping someone could share thoughts/math on the subject. You can have a detailed view of the build here: http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=92523

Here it is in text for you.

Main/Sub: Kila/Kila Dex12 Acc 24
Ranged: Lightning Bow+1 (lol I know)
Head: Turban/Anwig with Haste& Dex
Neck: Love Torque
L.Ear: Brutal
R.Ear: Suppa
Body: Mirke Acc10 & Dual Weild+3 or DW & Crit+3
Hands: Ocelot Gloves
L.ring Zilant Ring
R.Ring: Rajas
Back: Cuchulain's/Cavaros
Waist: V.Belt/Bullwhip
Legs: Skadi
Feet: Aurore

I base my stats off 75Thf/Nin, I am not 80 yet. Level sync will probably gimp the gear above 75 so bad that it would be a terrible build, but I'm hopeful.

Edit: Adding in cumulative suggestions for change from below posters for reader convenience. Please read their reasoning and more interesting comments on the usage of these gear alterations.

Melphina

head: Brisk mask and (maybe) acuben's helm
Back: Belenos' Mantle
Legs: Ocelot Trousers
Feet: Homam Gambrieras

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2x thunder kila, bomblet
Brisk Mask, love torque, brutal, suppa
mirke (DW/acc), Ocelot's, Zilant, Rajas
Cuchulain's, V belt, Ocelot's trousers, Homam

------

the store tp build. Consider this

Thunder Kila, Fusetto (damage + 9, sTP + 8), bomblet
Brisk Mask, Love Torque, Brutal, Suppa
Mirke (3% dual wield, 4% sTP), Homam Manopolas, Ecphoria Ring, Rajas Ring
Belenos's Mantle, Goading belt, Skadi's Chausses, Homam Gambieras

Haste -- +17
Accuracy -- +54
Dual Wield -- + 8
sTP -- +37

=============================

Shamaya

Weapon: Twashtar, Auric Dagger, OAT Parazonium, X's, Fusetto
Ranged: fire bomblet
Head: Brisk Mask
Legs: Ocelot

============================

Combined

Weapon: Kila, Thwashtar, Auric, Parazonium, X's Fusetto
Ranged: Fire Bomblet/Lucky Coin
Head: Turban/Anwig with Haste& Dex/Brisk Mask
Neck: Love Torque
L.Ear: Brutal
R.Ear: Suppa
Body: Mirke Acc10 & Dual Weild+3 or DW & Crit+3/ Rapp Harness
Hands: Ocelot Gloves
L.ring Zilant Ring
R.Ring: Rajas
Back: Cuchulain's/Cavaros/Belenos
Waist: V.Belt/Bullwhip/Goading
Legs: Skadi/Ocelot
Feet: Aurore/Homam


Edited, Jul 22nd 2010 4:33pm by LeonstrifeAsura

Edited, Jul 22nd 2010 4:34pm by LeonstrifeAsura

How insightful, however this is a haste build combined with DEX. Anyone insane enough to use Rap harness on anything above DC is welcome to some Sushi with their Colibri. Though thanks to Kila x2 I could entertain the thought of using it.

Yeah I think it's worth looking at how far the new gear could put our dex. Of course, with dex builds, I think it's really about taking a good TP-gain set and if it's not far from the crit cap, seeing what sacrifices have to be made for that last final stretch. Of course, a crit build doesn't become good until that last stretch of 10 dex until your total dex goes from 40 over the mob to 50. That is where you gain the biggest boost. 0->40 is a 5% boost in crit. 41-50 is 10%.

I think what's cool is that very few stats are sacrificed in the process of this. It should be noted, as Melphina noticed, that if we're talking G.Coli, this build is actually in the state of an accuracy surplus (I counted 125 dex as opposed to ffxiah showing 126). To cap crit on G.coli, you need 117 dex. That gives 8 dex to work to reduce and change into other stats. [i]In addition to that,/i] this is for a mithra with no +dex merits (Leon uses Str). So for mithras with dex merits (the recent dex gear could also affect the debate between dex and str merits), that gives not 8, but 14 points of dex that Leon could lower in this build in favor of other stats. And if we're talking level 80 (some of these items are above level 75), that'd bring the workable number up to 16.

I'd say change out one of the daggers for a new super-dagger. Maybe like Twashtar (lol), Auric Dagger, OAT Parazonium, X's, Fusetto, or just something else. Change lightning bow +1 to fire bomblet. Brisk Mask and Ocelot trousers are obvious improvements that do not affect the number of dex. We're left still with 7 dex surplus on G.Coli's. And hell we could even change the back to a cuchulain's mantle (which might be better for a dex build then belenos') and we'd be at 11. Even without adding cuchulain's mantle w could change to homam legs and still have a surplus 2 dex for TP build. A perfectly good haste/acc build with DW (mirke), atk, str, and nothing major sacrificed, still at capped 24% crit.

Of course, I don't think we'll be fighting g.coli much at 80. So if we were to keep the aurore feet and change cavaros to cuchulain's, we'd still be able to cap crit on mobs that have 78Agi.

It's just cool that its possible to get such high dex values (especially as a mithra with dex merits) w/ the new gear. There's even more incentive now with the crit dmg+ trait, (and maybe crit dmg+ gear?).

I've felt stronger and stronger about the possibility of a critical tp build for thief with the past two updates. The critical attack bonus is just icing on the cake to want to make it happen. The hardest judgment call in such a build is that of sacrificing haste/acc for dex when +50 dex over mobs agi is as far as you can push it. Consider this too

2x thunder kila, bomblet
Brisk Mask, love torque, brutal, suppa
mirke (DW/acc), Ocelot's, Zilant, Rajas
Cuchulain's, V belt, Ocelot's trousers, Homam

This is still an increase of 43 dex which results in 130 total dex for a dex merited mithra (freakin overkill on mobs with colibri type agility), and raises haste by 20% alongside the 8% dual wield but raises accuracy by an astonishing 86. At level 80 with recapped dagger skill and 86 accuracy in your tp build the option to eat meat is viable on a lot of mobs (and it keeps the dual wield/haste levels way up there). This is another possible variation of the critical build you've thrown out and adds max accuracy and meat into the equation. That would probably overkill accuracy needs on a lot of mobs and things like a different dagger or the acuben's helm can then be considered.

On that note, just one Thunder Kila overcompensates for the loss in accuracy from the acuben's helm. The Thunder Kila is one of the top end daggers in its own right and 6 dex is a nice added perk to weaponskill/sa mods. I really think the acuben's helm is a more viable tp choice now than it was last update because of this. Especially with all the other things you could consider changing. If I decided to scrap brisk mask in that example and throw in acuben's helm I'd end up with a tp set that added 70 accuracy, 22% haste, 8% dual wield, and still had a high level of dex to be effective with criticals. Pizza or meat are both viable considerations depending on mob strength so that's even more food for thought.

Edited, Jul 7th 2010 7:44am by Melphina

we might not know mob stats to an exact amount, but we do know that mobs use level correction to be difficult, not high base stats. this can be seen from collibri and mamools to kirin. coupled with thieves' naturally high DEX, 2x thunder kilas, and other gear that we would normally wear that has DEX (mirke, love torque, rajas, etc) to make a usable crit build.

also, i'm glad we finally got a critical damage bonus trait, but is any one else bothered by all the new crit damage plus gear that ninja and monk are getting, but thieves have not?

Colibri:Lv81-82: 67
MMJ Stabler:Lv81-83: 69
MMJ Blusterer:Lv81-83: 76
MMJ Lurker/Infil:Lv81-83: 96

(btw, this is all the stat info we have between MMJSP, Trolls, colibri. This is the entirety of our merit party stat info which isnt much)

I was hoping for some troll info as that would be a nice middle ground, but you see waht im getting at. even between rdm colibri and blm mamools is a 9 agi dif. Once you start to take other job types into account, mamools of the same level in the same camp have wildly varying stats (69-96). 146 dex? um no.

Obviously there are some applications for camps with single or few mob type/jobs. Specific HNMs etc. But I wouldnt be able to reccommend a dex build for general play when haste/acc builds work on basically everything. For me they will always be relegated to very situational builds.
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Apparently SE thinks that SA/TA are all the crit damage we need. I would have LOVED if they kept innin as a subbable JA as that would have basically done all that they had promised to do to thf.

Keep innin JA as sub.
Make innin only work when DW
Give thf (maybe dnc, NOT war) the crit damage trait.

Suddenly we have a ~30+% crit rate on HNMs from behind. Toss in crit damage trait (while NOT giving it to war or it would be edging towards OP), make innin only work while DW, bam we do a lot more damage on high level mobs. 1hander jobs in general get a much needed boost without toppling the great hasso. But SE just cant go for the simiple answers. They are going to beat around the bush with these updates in longwinded roundabout buffs that still wont get the jobs done -_-

Mel, your STP build suggestion is interesting and I enjoyed it thank you. I like STP as well and think if would be a fun thing to toy around with though I am still skeptical whether or not it could be better than traditional builds. At the very least it is an interesting option for my DNC/sam moreso than my thf due to the Store TP trait my sub provides and I will be looking into it for that very reason.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2010 4:20pm by LeonstrifeAsura