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#1 Jun 24 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just checking if anyone has tried quickdraw and if its gimped in anyway from cor main. Also if it can be used with Xbow marksmanship or only guns.

My cor is only 15, but had fantasies of grandeur as Thf/Cor with culverin/cannon shell soloing annoying mobs like VNMs that have given me grief. Love to know if that works. (It working for Xbow would be kinda cool to, though not as damaging).

I also have rng 75, so even MORE fantasies using my darn heavy shell (D99 culvering bullet) for something awesome.

Just curious about details of quickdraw as a sub and how it affects us since mine wont be 40 for a long time most likely.
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#2 Jun 24 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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Just hit 80 last night, and I do have Cor leveled. Haven't tried it yet but since I didn't see anything in the update notes about a nerf to it when subbed (whereas things that were nerfed were explicitly announced), I'm thinking / really hoping it's effective. :X
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#3 Jun 25 2010 at 3:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Not sure how is the damage gonna be affected.
Main thf here but I do have cor75 also.
Whenever we goes solo, /rdm or even /blm for JT of MAB++, also we do need bio for dot while doing solo.
Oh, not to mention that we use rdm and blm rolls both accessible after lvl50 cor, I think! :p
All macc mab bonus from sub and rolls, which are the main useful DMG+ on Quick Draw.
Looking at Magian, gun dmg is gonna over culverin too.

If QD was not nerf'd, thf and rng can use it for dot occasionally in any HNM events but I personally would go some better sub for their own way of damage!?

Just my two cents :)
#4 Jun 25 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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I wasnt really concerned about actually going thf/cor or rng/cor to events. Im looking at using the kite/quickdraw solo method and adapting it for thf and/or rng so i can take down some really pesky mobs i otherwise would need help doing. So if it works at full power i will definately be taking my cor to 40+ for that purpose alone. If its borked....well i dont want to waste my time :P
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#5 Jun 25 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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As I said, even it is not being nerf'd. You are going with MAB JT, MAB Roll and MACC roll. These buff really make big change on the damage.
You can still solo kite with /cor, but expect to spend double or may be even triple the time of what a main cor solo.
Also losing Bio and cure and blink stoneskin or even shadows, I'm not sure how you can last for a long time solo kiting.

#6 Jun 25 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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chichicha wrote:
As I said, even it is not being nerf'd. You are going with MAB JT, MAB Roll and MACC roll. These buff really make big change on the damage.
You can still solo kite with /cor, but expect to spend double or may be even triple the time of what a main cor solo.

You know what else makes big change on the damage?

Using a D140 gun+bullet combo (culverin+shell) instead of a D111 combo (corsair's+steel).

140 * 2 = 280 base

[(111 + 5 from hat) * (1 + [0.2 from /RDM + 0.071 avg from Wizard's])] * 2 = 294 base

294 / 280 = 5% increase in damage

Pre-magian COR/RDM has a 5% increase in base damage per shot over THF/COR. Unless you thought COR/RDM was a waste of time for most of the last 4 years, THF/COR should be just fine.
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#7 Jun 26 2010 at 2:33 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for puttin that into perspective RVW. TBH chichi I forgot about all those bonuses Cor/Rdm has, including additional accuracy. I'm not sure Cor/Rdm always has much time to cast blink/stoneskin but that is definitely a bonus. And DoT's for sure. So is the ability to cure 3. I suppose on Cor you used yag drinks? Probably not as affective, but Thf/Cor can try idling in regen gear and pop hi potions as an alternative. Additionally thief gets flee and high amounts of evasion, so it's not without its perks. But the /main/ draw of all of this, of course, is treasure hunter. The big flash culverin+1 is cool and all, but if Thf/Cor works, the whole incentive to do it would be for TH.

But Chichi you're a thief too, so if Thf/Cor does work I'm sure you'll be happy ^^ How's that IME going by the way?

Edited, Jun 26th 2010 8:33am by Shamaya
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#8 Jun 26 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Just checking if anyone has tried quickdraw and if its gimped in anyway from cor main. Also if it can be used with Xbow marksmanship or only guns.

My cor is only 15, but had fantasies of grandeur as Thf/Cor with culverin/cannon shell soloing annoying mobs like VNMs that have given me grief. Love to know if that works. (It working for Xbow would be kinda cool to, though not as damaging).

I also have rng 75, so even MORE fantasies using my darn heavy shell (D99 culvering bullet) for something awesome.

Just curious about details of quickdraw as a sub and how it affects us since mine wont be 40 for a long time most likely.


It does work on THF/COR with Culverin. I tried it out on the Colibri outside of Whitegate and was doing about 288 a shot.

THF/COR example


I did try it with Bow as well and was not able to use the ability (You do not have an appropriate ranged weapon equipped). I did not try with Crossbow yet.

THF using Culverin to Quick Draw


You still have 2 charges and it seems to work in much the same manner as COR main.
#9 Jun 26 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Comparing a perfectly geared COR/RDM to a perfectly geared THF/COR (for damage only, not accuracy, and ignoring slots that don't affect damage):

COR/RDM

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Armageddon (DMG 58)
Ammo: Oberon's bullet (DMG77)
Head: Corsair's tricorne
Neck: Ugg pendant (latent activated)
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Back: Forban cape
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (58+77+10)*2*(1+.08+.07+.05+.05+.01+.03+.03+.04+.07 from BLM roll+.24)*1.15 = 145*2*1.67*1.15 = 556 damage

With full QD recast merits and mirke, QD will be used ever 45 seconds. Over the course of 6 minutes, it will be used 9 times (6 mins/45 secs = 8, plus one extra charge) for a total of 5004 damage.


THF/COR

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Culverin+1 (51 DMG)
Ammo: Cannon Shell (90 DMG)
Head: Rhee's headgear
Neck: Caract choker
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (51+90)*2*(1+.02+.02+.05+.07+.05+.01+.03+.03)*1.15 = 141*2*1.28*1.15 = 415 damage

QD will be used every 55 seconds. In 6 minutes it will be used 7.54 times, for a total of 3129 damage.

5004/3129 = 59.9% more damage done by COR.

Is THF/COR solo viable? Absolutely. But I wouldn't say it's anywhere near the same time efficiency (though you do get TH!).
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#10 Jun 26 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
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KaishenRamuh wrote:
Comparing a perfectly geared COR/RDM to a perfectly geared THF/COR (for damage only, not accuracy, and ignoring slots that don't affect damage):

COR/RDM

QD Damage = (58+77+10)*2*(1+.08+.07+.05+.05+.01+.03+.03+.04+.07 from BLM roll+.24)*1.15 = 145*2*1.67*1.15 = 556 damage

This should be 5, not 10. That's 537 damage per shot, and 4833 damage.

Quote:
THF/COR

QD will be used every 55 seconds. In 6 minutes it will be used 7.54 times, for a total of 3129 damage.

Has anyone verified that /COR does NOT get 2 charges? COR main gets 2 charges right at 40, correct?

Quote:
Is THF/COR solo viable? Absolutely. But I wouldn't say it's anywhere near the same time efficiency (though you do get TH!).

This isn't really the point I was making.

COR recently received several MAJOR upgrades in gun/ammo damage. But prior to that, COR was stuck on D41+D70 for a long, long time. And if THF/COR is similar in efficiency to corsair's+steel COR/RDM, then obviously it's not so incredibly inefficient that it's not worthwhile (particularly when you throw TH4 in the mix).
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#11 Jun 26 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Why doesn't the thf/cor use Ugg pendant aswell?
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#12 Jun 26 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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Im curious still if Xbow works. More for novelty and curiositys sake (and a lesser extent a respectable option for Obow Rng).

While the thf vs cor is all neat and all, it is almost entirely irrelivant.

The reason to use Thf/Cor solo is:
1. TH
2. (more important) Not everyone has a 80 cor or plans to. I have a Thf. Not a cor.

Those reasons are completely irrelivant to which one solos faster.
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99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
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Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
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Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#13 Jun 27 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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What I'm trying to say there, it is what Kaishen mentioned.
QD as COR main is more effective than THF.
And completely agreed with Shamaya ( <3 thanks for the IME ) going THF/COR is purely for Treasure Hunter purpose.
It is all up to personal preference playing solo. Perhaps, another thread might be running in COR's when level 90 released, about Cor90/thf45 th2. :)

Shamaya,
I solo'd CoR starts with mab and macc rolls, while mp low by using bio or cure or stoneskin, rep macc roll with refresh. Then alter the rolls when Mp is good. Kiting with Skadi and QD, won't really get hit much. But stoneskin only in case you make mistake or the mob cheated (short cut).
I'm going to try flying dragon in Xarcabard one day. Might take long time to get it done...
:p

p.s. By the way, a Vajra was born in Asura. Wigmore is the JPN who made it and PM me a message about it.


Edited, Jun 27th 2010 3:09am by chichicha
#14 Jun 27 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Reworked to fix a couple of issues, and compare based on cor gun+1/steel. My original comparison DID factor in the fact that THF/COR gets 2 charges like COR main.

COR/RDM

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Corsair's gun +1 (DMG 42)
Ammo: Steel bullet (DMG70)
Head: Corsair's tricorne
Neck: Ugg pendant (latent activated)
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Back: Forban cape
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (42+70+5)*2*(1+.08+.07+.05+.05+.01+.03+.03+.04+.07 from BLM roll+.24)*1.15 = 117*2*1.67*1.15 = 449 damage

With full QD recast merits and mirke, QD will be used every 45 seconds. Over the course of 6 minutes, it will be used 9 times (6 mins/45 secs = 8, plus one extra charge) for a total of 4041 damage.


THF/COR

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Culverin+1 (51 DMG)
Ammo: Cannon Shell (90 DMG)
Head: Rhee's headgear
Neck: Ugg pendant (I'm not sure if this can be activated without native mp, but I'll assume it can)
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (51+90)*2*(1+.02+.08+.05+.07+.05+.01+.03+.03)*1.15 = 141*2*1.34*1.15 = 434 damage

QD will be used every 55 seconds. In 6 minutes it will be used 7.54 times, for a total of 3272 damage.

4041/3272 = 23.5% more damage done by COR.
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#15 Jun 27 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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Well now that it seems there isn't a current Thf vs Cor debate, at least until people go out and try Thf/Cor for the first time and report success rates, I want to ask you guys,

About how much AGI do you want to have in your set? Maybe for like, a tier2 VNM, let's say. Like Feuerenke or Erebus. What's a good ratio for AGI:MAB? 1:1? 1:2? 2:1? I put down an all AGI set for Thf/Cor in my "best sets" thread, but I'm a nub.

Chichi, if you attempt Zirnitra solo at some point, I won't discourage you. But I think it may be difficult. For Rdm/Nin, it hasn't been solo'd but duo (well, I did trio) is definitely not hard with movement speed if you know what you're doing. It seems almost impossible to not get hit by him sometimes, to be honest. Because of draw-in there are only two rocks to kite around, and while they are good I'm not sure they are perfect. But now that I think about it, with quick draw kite and the right equip swapping, you don't get frozen in place as you kite like a magic caster does. And also, his silencega would not be as major of a problem. Sounds difficult though :X. If you try it, good luck!
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#16 Jun 28 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
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KaishenRamuh wrote:
Reworked to fix a couple of issues, and compare based on cor gun+1/steel. My original comparison DID factor in the fact that THF/COR gets 2 charges like COR main.

THF/COR

Main: HQ Staff
Ranged: Culverin+1 (51 DMG)
Ammo: Cannon Shell (90 DMG)
Head: Rhee's headgear
Neck: Ugg pendant (I'm not sure if this can be activated without native mp, but I'll assume it can)
Lear: Moldavite
Rear: Novio
Body: Mirke (MAB+5 QD Recast-5)
Rring: Galdr ring
Waist: Aquiline belt
Legs: Shantotto legs (MAB+4)

QD Damage = (51+90)*2*(1+.02+.08+.05+.07+.05+.01+.03+.03)*1.15 = 141*2*1.34*1.15 = 434 damage

QD will be used every 55 seconds. In 6 minutes it will be used 7.54 times, for a total of 3272 damage.

4041/3272 = 23.5% more damage done by COR.


Theres a couple things you can add:
If you know what you're planning to fight, theres nothing stopping you from throwing some Vs MOB: Mab+ Evoliths in, of which it seems the highest you can go is MAB+4 on any slot, which overtakes Ree's, as well as gives MAB options to both hands and feet.
#17 Jun 28 2010 at 5:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Never thought about Evolith!!!
Good idea and nice to mention them!
Will have a look into them vs ebons!

As for AGI vs MAB, what I did as COR is to pump in as much MAB as possible and any other slots can be filled with MAB, I will have AGI in for them. Of course, beside head is always AF hat. Hmm... Bare in mind that my COR had QD Acc merit cap though.
So I guess as for other jobs, we might want to load in more AGI for QD Acc.
My cor has around 119 AGI in total while doing my QD set. Not entirely pumped with MAB...
And oh yea, i'm a taru :p
#18 Jun 30 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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I think Square wants us to be able to do this
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#19 Jul 13 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Default
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Pardon the necro, but why would you want to use a staff and cut off all your other abilities when the +8 Magic Attack Bonus Magian dagger is like, the easiest elemental trial in the whole game?
#20 Jul 13 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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Why would you be using any of the abilities you lose when subbing cor for QD kitefest or pinning?
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#21 Jul 14 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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pacobirdley wrote:
Pardon the necro, but why would you want to use a staff and cut off all your other abilities when the +8 Magic Attack Bonus Magian dagger is like, the easiest elemental trial in the whole game?


1. +8 Magic Attack pales in comparison to staff bonuses

2. QD kiting involves zero use of any abilities you would need a dagger for.
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#22 Jul 14 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah, was considering THF/COR in a more general context.
#23 Jul 14 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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/COR does not have much use in any other context. Its not a bad sub for a TH mule being 3boxed, but to use it in any event just doesnt seem worth it in any way.

I guess you could use THF/COR for stuff you are manaburning if you have the spot open. But then it would just be QDs randomly for damage or 1% mob kills type of thing. idk, its reaching to try to find purpose in thf/cor aside from low level things (like as a sync for an AB).
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#24 Jul 16 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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THF/COR in salvage gives good damage to NMs and mega boss. While you can damage to stick your TH4 away from their AOE or QD when you are bored and not charmed to your matey to make him emo !
Gives an extra roll... such as weak evoker when main cor can give better rolls to mages and DD...
#25 Jul 16 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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If you are on a run where you get SJ as thf, i guess thats fine. Not much damage, the 1 buff could come in handy. I think i would still use /nin or even /rng and RA.

Can always stick TH with any ranged weapon with any sj, so thats not really a bonus. And if i have a sj on nms, /nin will be way more damge than the 1 or 2 QDs i might get in.
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#26 Jul 18 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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KaishenRamuh wrote:

Neck: Ugg pendant (I'm not sure if this can be activated without native mp, but I'll assume it can)


FYI yes it can ^^
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