Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Critical Hit Attack BonusFollow

#1 Jun 23 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
Anyone have this yet?
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#2 Jun 23 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
**
269 posts
/

"feels" like about a 5-10% increase. What would be the proper way to precisely test it? Calculate the max damage critical possible with your weapon, go critically hit a large number of mobs with the same gear, and see what the max is?

Currently using a 40D mandau +12 fstr. Max crit would be 52 * 3.15? I'm not sure if the max cRatio was found yet.
____________________________
Wolfheart 80 THF, DRK, MNK but not bard. No, no I didn't level bard.
Phoenix server.
( ')> Shadow Duck approves of this message.
#3 Jun 24 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
It might exactly what it says, an attack bonus on critical hits. If that were the case you'd only see a difference on high level mobs.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#4 Jun 24 2010 at 5:49 AM Rating: Decent
**
572 posts
Doing about 680-720 crits on TW bees where I usually do 600-650. I've never come close to 700 before hitting 78. It's not just atk bonus. I'd guess it's somewhere between 5-10% straight damage.
____________________________
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=48591
#5 Jun 24 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,287 posts
Test 1:
Calculate maximum SA damage on level 0 bunnies in Ronfaure. Go do SAs on them until you either exceed that damage or until you are satisfied that there is no Damage boost to critical hits.

Test 2:
Probably lesser colibri outside of whitegate because their stats are known, same test, shouldn't have capped atk so should be able to determine if there is an atk bonus as well.

Edit: I would do it myself, but I haven't even logged in since the patch yet. Besides, it will probably take me a month to get to that level.

Edited, Jun 24th 2010 9:03am by Meldi
#6 Jun 24 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,107 posts
To figure out if this is only adding attack you could do the bunny test and bring a friend to sync down to (and adjusting your dex to be the same).

If you hit for the same damage with and without the trait this is likely only giving an attack bonus, which means you'll need more testing to pinpoint the added attack.
____________________________
80 Pup Brd, 75 War Rdm Drg Sam Mnk Pld Bst Thf Whm Nin Smn Blm Rng, 72 Drk, 63 Cor, 50 Blu, 40 Dnc Sch
#7 Jun 24 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,287 posts
Requim wrote:
To figure out if this is only adding attack you could do the bunny test and bring a friend to sync down to (and adjusting your dex to be the same).

If you hit for the same damage with and without the trait this is likely only giving an attack bonus, which means you'll need more testing to pinpoint the added attack.


Lowest level you could sync down to is 78.
#8 Jun 24 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
No, i think he means, to a batch as 78+ for info. THEN synch to under 78 but keep the same dex and repeat to compare a batch with and without trait.

But we already can calculate what your damage "should" be without trait so the synching is kinda unnessisary.

Lv0 mobs would show straight % bonus and a flat Pdif bonus (if it goes over cap). If its an atk bonus or Pdif bonus that doesnt breach pdif cap, it wouldnt change from the expected damage and would then need tests on harder mobs.
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#9 Jun 24 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
56 posts
Looks to be some bonus applied, very quick test against level 0 rabbits as DNC80

Using Cinquedea (D25), max damage should be (25+10(fSTR))*3.15 = 110

  Melee Crits 
       96:    1 
       97:    1 
       99:    2 
      100:    1 
      101:    2 
      106:    1 
      109:    1 
      110:    1 
+^    111:    7 
      112:    1 
      113:    4 
      114:    2 
      115:    1


Edited, Jun 24th 2010 4:24pm by Radecx
____________________________
"I thought this game only consisted of WAR NIN MNK BRD RDM."
"You sir are a liar. Blackmages get to fight anything thats at least 3 times my size ingame too."
"I still don't get it. Where do you find these gargantuan colibri, and why would you want to merit off of one?"
#10 Jun 24 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,287 posts
Judging by that info, theoretically we get 5% damage increase from crits with Critical Attack bonus. Max damage would be 115 on your dnc. That is pretty decent I think, but not overpowering.

Edit: Somehow I misstyped something when calculating max possible damage lol.

Edited, Jun 24th 2010 5:31pm by Meldi
#11 Jun 25 2010 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,983 posts
Buddy of mine, Lacavi from Asura went out and did a lil test on this. I don't endorse it because I haven't seen the data, but he was telling me that off the top of his head:

Target: Rolanberry, TW Bees
Lvl78, High=570, Low=512
Lvl77, High=505, Low=451

Dividing max/min w/ current pDif info, the samples seem to be "95% sufficient". Sample size for each level was 50. He also said his dex increased by 2 from 77->78. So playing around, his numbers would indicate either,

* A straight-multiplied ~12% boost in dmg
OR
* A ~+0.35 addition in pDif

Again I don't endorse it. I'll try to get him to post his parsed data if he's obliged, but I'd encourage others to run a similar test.

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 11:42am by Shamaya
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
#12 Jun 25 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
9 posts
Are we over-complicating this test?
Crit hit bonuses should work just as well for ranged attacks (confirmed x's 10% boost to ranged crits)
Just go out to gusta and ra a few lizzards to see what the (pdif capped) bonus is. Bees work too, but don't forget to subtract the piercing bonus.
Ranged damage is perfect for testing crit bonuses since ranged damage converges to a single point at capped pdif.
That was how I was previously trying to find the latent for the fatality belt (unsuccessfully so far).
Takes all of the uncertainty in sample sizes out of the equation.

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 11:17am by LostInThought
____________________________
Char: Onyxx
Server: Midgardsormr
{Mandau} ^^
#13 Jun 27 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,983 posts
That's a pretty good point you have, lostinthought. Well, Studio Gobli reports a 5% increase. They also say it works on ranged attacks, like you said w/ X's. I don't really know how to navigate their site but I don't know if they post method/data at all.
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
#14 Jul 01 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
Has there been any more testing done? Or are we just going to take Gobli at their word? I also dont know how to navigate the site to see their methods etc. Id like to get this down so we can begin the fun part updating our info/conclusions on how we understand our WS and stacked WS. Evis vs DE got more interesting, and Stacked WS got a boost that could change how we do things. And of course the straight up boost to Stacked SB, MStab and MStroke.

Unfortunately my playtime has been drastically cut as of monday (Employed! YAY!) this week or I would be out testing myself. Seems that the golden years of my FFXI life are behind me during college years followed by a few months of unemployment, so no more obscene play time for me :S Of course the upside is having a positive net income :P

But I am very much interested if anyone can post or at least navigate the site to see how it was tested. And by extension if its a flat % boost, a Pdif boost, atk boost, or some unexplained/wierd new thing. I have "noticed" the increase when I kill TW mobs. SA on TW piercing mobs is 700+ now (killing bats for Black triple stars). Been spamming magian trials ever since I hit 80 in pursuit of twashtar, and doin LS events so no time for the monotomous testing type stuff anymore ><

Speaking of monotomous testing, (Shameless plug) EVIS Crit rate Tests! Can I haz eet!? We need good samaritons to continue the collective testing in my old thread (ill go bump it after this). With a crit damage boost, we need to pin down the exact evis crit RATE so we can properly analyze how much of a buff this actually gives it.
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#15 Jul 02 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
***
3,775 posts
It would seem the critical hit attack bonus is a straight 5% increase to critical hit damage. All the data thus far points to this as the verdict. That's a nice little bonus tbh and there will be further trait upgrades in the future. Oh btw

Quote:
Unfortunately my playtime has been drastically cut as of monday (Employed! YAY!) this week or I would be out testing myself. Seems that the golden years of my FFXI life are behind me during college years followed by a few months of unemployment, so no more obscene play time for me :S Of course the upside is having a positive net income :P


Congratulations on that Banalaty. You'll probably find in the long run it's more satisfying even if it does cut into play time (paying bills is a good thing O.O). I've been full time a year and a half now and I'm glad I made the choice. Today is my day off though so aside from the chores I have to do I'll be working on my Thunder Kila some more. 200 qubtrubs and I'll have my Dakini finished Smiley: nod
____________________________
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#16 Jul 02 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
***
2,270 posts
Hah ive been so lazy about dakinis. I havent even touched a single trial in that direction. All focus is on OAT Athame (been 0/10 on eyes for months >< But I can now Duo T2 pixies like nothing at lv 80 ^_^b) and Twashtar (Just finished Hovering Hotpot today!). But I have had more success with my OAT lance (6/10 baby Blobdingnags and another pop on me).

After realizing just what a time sink magian stuff is as trials will continue to evolve to new levels, I am going to focus exclusively on Twashtar, OAT path Athame/Paraz path, OAT lance, and MAYBE the Empyrean Lance later down the road if it starts to really pull ahead of the OAT path.

While it would be great to have 2x acc dakini, Twashtar, Paraz, 2xEva daggers etc (not to mention my Drg lances in a similar vein), it is just FAR to time consuming to really chase all those tails, and the tails will keep getting longer with more updates. (particularly with my cut in playtime). So I am banking on Twash/Paraz being the 'general' dagger combo of choice and my OAT lance(and possibly Empyran) and just leaving the rest well enough alone. I dont think you can go wrong with the Empyream + OAT paths to round out almost any job.

5% is certainly a welcome boost. Free damage go! But i was hoping for a little more. I can at least hope that Thf gets future boosts (10 and 15% yes please!) and kinda hope dnc and war dont. I think its long past due for thf to take over the crit damage world where mnks/nins/wars have overtaken us with their GOOD crit weapons, crazy dex based TP gear etc.

I suppose its time to look at how this effects things like SB/M.Stab/Evis vs DE (stacked/unstaacked etc).
_____________________________________________________________________________

As an aside, both my thf and drg are lv 80 now. But neither of them have ANY lv 75+ gear. While I will ultimately be VERY happy with Twash/Paraz, is there any more attainable weapons that push out Blau/Sirocco that we can actually get in short order? Or are we stuck with 75 weapons until we power through these (rather long)magian trials?

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 4:46pm by Banalaty
____________________________
Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#17 Jul 02 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,252 posts
Quote:
Hah ive been so lazy about dakinis. I havent even touched a single trial in that direction. All focus is on OAT Athame (been 0/10 on eyes for months >< But I can now Duo T2 pixies like nothing at lv 80 ^_^b) and Twashtar (Just finished Hovering Hotpot today!). But I have had more success with my OAT lance (6/10 baby Blobdingnags and another pop on me).

After realizing just what a time sink magian stuff is as trials will continue to evolve to new levels, I am going to focus exclusively on Twashtar, OAT path Athame/Paraz path, OAT lance, and MAYBE the Empyrean Lance later down the road if it starts to really pull ahead of the OAT path.

While it would be great to have 2x acc dakini, Twashtar, Paraz, 2xEva daggers etc (not to mention my Drg lances in a similar vein), it is just FAR to time consuming to really chase all those tails, and the tails will keep getting longer with more updates. (particularly with my cut in playtime). So I am banking on Twash/Paraz being the 'general' dagger combo of choice and my OAT lance(and possibly Empyran) and just leaving the rest well enough alone. I dont think you can go wrong with the Empyream + OAT paths to round out almost any job.


Lol this has pretty much been my situation except that I have gone after the Dakini's first and not the other weapons. For me I would rather be actively working on trials (while getting exp/merits/bs/ks/etc) instead of doing nothing while waiting for an NM to pop, or waiting for a group to get together to take down an NM that you may/may not get drops on etc. I'll eventually take the plunge and start on twashtar though don't get me wrong...but for me going after the dakini's better fits my playstyle. Other than that...I like my stat daggers. Even though they don't have the high base damage/low delay of twash, they give me a bit more flexibility. But I'll probably end up using twash/fire for when my acc is capped and twash/thunder for when it's not...until then it will be fire/thunder for everything.

Oh and my choice is further biased since I can solo most/all of the dakini trials on DNC...big deciding factor there XD
____________________________
DNC: 90 THF: 90 RNG: Semi retired @90 RDM: Retired@75

lolblog: http://mithrasmemoirs.blogspot.com/
Elemental Magian Dagger Guide
Gearsets/etc
#18 Jul 02 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
*
91 posts
If it does end up being a 5% boost then I have to say that I'm a little disappointed. When I initially heard that THF was getting this job trait, I though it was probably the smartest thing SE could do to make THF more relevant damage-wise, especially in HNM fights. I was hoping for at least a 15%-20% increase though. Don't get me wrong. A 5% increase is better than nothing, but when I think of tradition THF damage I think critical hit damage produced with SA and TA. Maybe we will get more.
____________________________
Justiceblade
Server: Seraph
75 PLD, 75 THF, 37 WAR, 37 RDM, 37 NIN
Sandy Rank 10, CoP, RoZ Complete
#19 Jul 02 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
Justiceblade wrote:
If it does end up being a 5% boost then I have to say that I'm a little disappointed. When I initially heard that THF was getting this job trait, I though it was probably the smartest thing SE could do to make THF more relevant damage-wise, especially in HNM fights. I was hoping for at least a 15%-20% increase though. Don't get me wrong. A 5% increase is better than nothing, but when I think of tradition THF damage I think critical hit damage produced with SA and TA. Maybe we will get more.


If couldn't be a straight 20% damage increase because that would completely overpower WAR.


It should have been a 25% Attack boost on crits on 1H weapons only.


Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 2:02am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#20 Jul 03 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
643 posts
Mistress Melphina wrote:
Today is my day off though so aside from the chores I have to do I'll be working on my Thunder Kila some more. 200 qubtrubs and I'll have my Dakini finished Smiley: nod


But you've still got 200 lizards and 250 golems to go...

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 2:33pm by FacerX
____________________________
Ravel from Bastok on Valefor
THF90/WHM76/BRD76/SAM76/PLD76/BLU90/COR76/PUP90/DNC90/DRG76/RDM76/SCH59
All other jobs 40+
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 15 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (15)