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Vajra informationFollow

#52 Apr 12 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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It took me 11 days but I finally did it. 1500 kill shots on undead with Mandy Stab.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/vajratrial2.jpg

Thf really get the short end of the stick because you have to stack Mandy Stab with SA or TA. So even if you bring a brd, cor, whm combo you are still stuck on your slow SA and TA timers.
And Mandy Stab is horrible damage on EP/DC monsters if you compare it to Dancing Edge. Mandy Stab will shine on IT+ monsters. But killing 1500 IT+ monsters is kind of...........unpractical.

Not to mention the fact that SE still has not fixed the "lock" problem for thf. Each time I get hit with a buff/debuff/nuke I get locked in my animation. If I happen to use SAws at the time my SA gets split up from my ws. Which I don't want!
I think I killed around 300 extra undead because of this. It is really annoying thf and /thf have to deal with this "lock" problem.

The first few days I spend looking for a good camp with friendly undead monsters. I finally found this place in The Eldieme Necropolis [S]
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/undeadcamp.jpg
When you tele into The Eldieme Necropolis [S] walk to the north room, sneak up, and drop down. From there you can walk to the pink dot shown on the map. You will also need invis for the goblins and tigers.

The area around the pink dot has 23 DC spriggans. These belong to the Shadow family. Wiki is listing them incorrectly as fomors which they are not.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Eldieme_Necropolis_%28S%29

Fomors will strip tp amongst other things. Which is bad when you are trying to kill stuff with Mandy Stab.
Spriggans have just one tp move: Dimensional Death: High damage, single target physical attack. This move will hit you for 250dmg max. But more often then not it will do less damage or miss you completely.

The Eldieme Necropolis [S] has lots of earth weather. Again wiki is wrong about this. It says there is no weather effect at all in The Eldieme Necropolis [S]. Ice and earth weather are both possible.
The earth weather is great because one of the sword trials is: kill 150 undead during earth day or earth weather. So I was able to team up a few times with a pld and rdm.

It is also possible to bring /bst here. Right outside the camp, shown with the red dot, are EP tigers which bring lots of extra DoT to the fight. Though I went /nin most of the time because of the extra damage X knife gave me on Mandy Stab.

And last but not least hardly anybody knows about this camp. During the 11 days I was there I saw zero people. Not counting the people I brought of coarse.

At 35 base damage Vajra is now where it should have been when I got the dagger. It can only get better from here on out. Unless the next Trial in June will be: 1500 kill shots on Tiamat during dark weather on darksday. SE please be nice to me. Thank you!

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 10:43pm by Breaze
#53 Apr 12 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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No it'll be killshot 5000 DC skeletons.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#54 Jul 07 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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I did not want to make a new topic for this. So instead I changed the title from "Vajra first impressions" to: "Vajra information."

I saw this on BG about a lvl 80 mythic http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90723&page=40
Kellanved wrote:
AM1 is now 1:30 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM2 is now 2:00 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM3 is now 3:00 in duration, an extension of 60s

Personally, I think this is what the original durations should have been to begin with. Perhaps those that have completed their relic counterparts should check their respective AM durations?


I’ll try and edit in the effect of “Enhanced Third eye effect II” when I can find suitable targets to work with. Based on cursory examination of the effect using some DC-T aerns at sea, I can’t really see any marked difference in anticipation, just maybe more counters? Hard to say. Furthermore, I've yet to check the potency of the AM effects for any variations.

This was posted by a sam mythic holder but will probably also count for Vajra.

Interesting stuff. I am nearly done with my 1500 aquans. Then 2000 puks left to go. If I could use evisceration for kill shots I would have been done by now.... On the bright side I don't have to make any exp party since just doing trails will get me to level 80 and probably cap my exp also.

More information to come.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 12:39am by Breaze
#55 Jul 10 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Finally done with 1500 aquans:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/Vajratrial3.jpg

Next is 2000 dragons. When I was looking for camps I came up with this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/pukcamps.jpg

The puks in Wajaom Woodlands are easy prey. Problem is there are not enough of them. The marker which says: "Puk camp 1" only has 5 puks. In this camp I am waiting on repops. The marker which says: "Puk camp 2" holds 6 puks. But the problem is they are a bit spaced out. And this camp is often taken by other people. (Please ignore the other markers they are in written dutch.)

Does anybody have any suggestions as to where I can find a better dragon camp? I was thinking Riverne - Site B01 maybe? The level cap is gone here and Ignidrake are 58-60. But I have not been up there myself yet. If anybody has any information on a good dragon camp I am all ears.

On a different note: It seems that lvl 80 relic weapons did not get any extra boosts except the stuff we can read on the weapon itself. So mandau only got +4 dmg and +5 attack for now. The hidden effects on it are still the same.
Kirschy wrote:
Finalli finished Lv 80 Apoc this morning. As was assumed, there appears to be no extra bonuses. WS still appears to follow the same mods, Haste aftermath is still 102/1024 and has crap duration~

Taken from: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90723&page=44


Edited, Jul 11th 2010 4:00am by Breaze
#56 Jul 21 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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I hate Wind Shear. I hate Obfuscate. I hate Crosswind. I hate Zephyr Mantle. And most of all I hate puks.

thf/nin SA test with gear:
STR 67+16
DEX 84+54
attack 493

Four rounds with different daggers. All targets - Tiny Mandragora.

Vajra, base dmg: 40 Enhances SA effect II
1. 758
2. 845
3. 828
4. 861
5. 886
6. 783
7. 846
8. 887
9. 862
10.871

high:887 low:758 average:842,7

I would like to see a level 80 Mandau owner post some results also.

X's knife, base dmg: 34 Increases crit damage
1. 810
2. 782
3. 806
4. 815
5. 805
6. 752
7. 806
8. 703
9. 800
10.815

high:815 low:703 average:789,4

I still remember the first time I got Vajra and did the same test. And X's knife was beating Vajra. I was so disappointed then. It goes without saying I am very happy to see this new result. Vajra beating X's knife with a big margin now.

Auric dagger, base dmg: 39
1. 746
2. 747
3. 767
4. 706
5. 695
6. 777
7. 717
8. 741
9. 775
10.743

high:777 low:695 average:741,4

Very funny Auric dagger performing below X's knife.

Vajra/X's, base dmg: 40 Enhances SA effect II, Increases crit damage
1. 985
2. 940
3. 981
4. 948
5. 865
6. 958
7. 971
8. 943
9. 942
10.945

high:985 low:865 average:947,8

This shows that X's knife is still a relevant dagger in situations where you run in for SA and TA.

I find it very hard to compare the old numbers from my first post and these numbers. Because I gained 5 levels and a JT. I will leave it to the maths experts to find out how much the "Enhances SA TA effect II" exactly is. My guess is that it is between a 5 to 10% boost. All I needed to know is that the boost is there.

I also can confirm the extra time added to the aftermath effects.

Did I mention I hate puks?

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 9:21pm by Breaze
#57 Jul 21 2010 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Classic opening. I approve.

Second, thanks for gathering some data. Even though I don't play anymore, I find the analysis interesting. Let's see if I remember how to do this.

Level 1 mobs, therefore:
-Capped pDIF & Critical Hit: Max=3.15
-Capped fSTR: For a D40 weapon (Rank 4), +12 wDmg.
-DEX+138 = +138wDmg
Total wDmg = 190

Expected max for SA would then be 598 with no bonus, and not accounting for JT "Crit Damage+".

Assuming that actually is a straight +5% increase, new max is 627.
However, that would mean the bonus for "Enhances SA Effect II" would be something like +40-45%. Hrm.

Double-checking this against X's Knife.
fSTR->Rank3 (Int(34/9)=3), +11wDmg
-Dex+138 = +138wDmg
Total wDmg = 183
Expected Max = 634 [665 after "+5% Crit hit Bonus"]

But your max is significantly higher than that, and I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to explain that. The only thing I can think of is that either the +5% Crit Damage Bonus isn't +5%, or Mandies as a family have some kind of piercing weakness that isn't listed on Wiki. Using the 634 result above, there's a 22.4% difference I can't really account for (assuming 5% Damage bonus) [Or a 20.2% difference if X's Knife is actually a 12% boost in damage, as I've seen tossed around in the past].

This leaves me at a loss as to what's really going on. :P Any further analysis would be kinda silly. However, if we give this "mystery 22.4% bonus" and go backwards from your max Vajra hit, you'd get a bonus of ~+15% for "Enhances Sneak Attack II". Take that with a grain of salt, because like I said, there's something going on I'm not totally sure of.

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#58 Jul 21 2010 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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Mandies are piercing weak, so your max should be x1.25, which would put the max expected SA damage for D40 weapon is 783. 887 is ~13.3% increase in damage from the projected 783. With this information, using his max damage of 887, we could say that Vajra probably increases SA damage by 15%. Which would mean that he should be able to see a 900 damage SA if he did it long enough.

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 10:10pm by Meldi
#59 Jul 21 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh wow check this. We already knew:

AM1 is now 1:30 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM2 is now 2:00 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM3 is now 3:00 in duration, an extension of 60s

But what nobody reported yet (as far as I know) is that the AM effects also got more potent!

Old AM2 on level 75 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 354
tp 207 attack: 376 - 354 = 22 attack
tp 299 attack: 413 - 354 = 59 attack

New AM2 on level 80 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 389
tp 203 attack: 421 - 389 = 32 attack
tp 208 attack: 423 - 389 = 34 attack
tp 256 attack: 452 - 389 = 63 attack
tp 291 attack: 474 - 389 = 85 attack
tp 298 attack: 478 - 389 = 89 attack

That is a 50% boost in attack across the board.

Going from this we can assume AM1 also gained in potency and now offers more accuracy. 50% more? What would that mean?

Old AM1 on level 75 weapon:
+10 accuracy at 100tp and scales up linear to +19 accuracy at 199tp

New AM1 on level 80 weapon (assuming 50% boost as seen on AM2):
+15 accuracy at 100tp and scales up linear to +29 accuracy at 199tp

AM3 probably has the same double attack rate but got a boost by adding the 60s extension as confirmed.

I am starting to like Vajra more and more that is for sure.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2010 5:30am by Breaze
#60 Jul 22 2010 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Sucks that aftermath effects on lvl 80 relics are unchanged.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#61 Jul 22 2010 at 2:37 AM Rating: Good
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Well I know that my friends short sampling suggested a 10% increase. Still unverified by anyone else; It's just that Gobli says 5%. Westerners and JP's can't always agree on everything though. Their wiki and ours disagree on Spharai counter, for example.
I'm glad to see Mythics got buffed ^^. That may be a level 1 piercing mob, but damn that is sexy damages paired w/ the X's. You gotta get that new crit mantle too, and the crit body. Maybe figure out the latent on fatality belt. That'd be a hell of a lot of dmg one could deal simply from SA/TA'ing in fights we can't melee. That equip is seriously going to boost Mandalic Stab as well.
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#62 Jul 22 2010 at 5:04 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the aid, Meldi. I had always suspected Mandies were piercing weak, but I had never seen it listed or confirmed. Plus, they weren't really a mob I was used to fighting since oh...level 30. XD

I'd put money on that 15% value, too. That sounds about right. I'd also say you could probably expect that to be pretty consistent. Ie: 20% @ Enhances Sneak Attack III, 25% @ IV, etc. Would be pretty sweet if by level 99, Vajra was up to IV or V.
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#63 Jul 22 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Shamaya wrote:
You gotta get that new crit mantle too, and the crit body.

I was looking into that but Cavaros Mantle does not seem very interesting. It seems to be a 1% boost only. I would like to think that some other mantles can beat that easy, am I right?

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96424 Under post number 5.

Loki's Kaftan seems awesome but it has not yet been found. Probably will come from a Tier 4 abyssea NM.
#64 Jul 22 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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Damn, didn't realize it had been found. I'm kind of disappointed ;/
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#65 Sep 20 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Plants can go to hell.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/lvl85Vajra.png

I will have info on the SATA III/aftermath tomorrow.
#66 Sep 21 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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nice!
#67 Sep 21 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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The 2000 plants were actually much more easy then the puk stage due to the great camp and weak tp attacks plants have.
It also helped that I got stronger so I needed less time to tp and I could ws sooner. It still was boring but who cares I got it done.

thf/nin SA test with gear: lvl 85 vajra
STR 74 + 16
DEX 92 + 63 = 155
attack 457

Three rounds with different setups. All targets - Tiny Mandragora.

Vajra, base dmg: 43 Enhances SA effect III
1. 1046
2. 996
3. 901
4. 1030
5. 1035
6. 1015
7. 1051
8. 925
9. 1050
10.973

high: 1051 low: 901 average: 1002,2


For the second set of tests I wanted a better comparison between the old lvl 80 Vajra and the current 85 Vajra.
So I decided to take out the DEX variable. So I used the same amount of DEX as I had during the level 80 tests. Which was: DEX 84+54 = 138.
So I took off some gear to get this:
STR 74 + 22
DEX 92 + 46 = 138 the exact same amount as during the level 80 tests.
attack 455

Vajra, base dmg: 43 Enhances SA effect III
1. 972
2. 923
3. 935
4. 951
5. 967
6. 848
7. 827
8. 938
9. 902
10.901

high: 972 low: 827 average: 916,4

Note how a small drop of just (155 - 138 = 17) 17 DEX has a dramatic impact on the numbers.

For reference the old level 80 test was this:
STR 67+16
DEX 84+54 = 138
attack 493

Vajra, base dmg: 40 Enhances SA effect II
1. 758
2. 845
3. 828
4. 861
5. 886
6. 783
7. 846
8. 887
9. 862
10.871

high:887 low:758 average:842,7

Going from other posters in this topic it roughly looks like this:
lvl 75 Vajra, D31: Enhances SA effect I: 10% boost.
lvl 80 Vajra, D40: Enhances SA effect II: 15% boost.
lvl 85 Vajra, D43: Enhances SA effect III: 20% boost.
But feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


Last but not least I wanted to go all out. So full DEX and X's knife:

STR 74 + 16
DEX 92 + 63 = 155
attack 457
Vajra/X's, base dmg: 43 Enhances SA effect III, Increases crit damage
1. 1168
2. 1136
3. 1166
4. 1163
5. 1050
6. 1152
7. 996
8. 1116
9. 1018
10.1068

high: 1168 low: 996 average: 1103,3


Aftermath test:
Did SE add extra attack duration and buffs like they did for level 80?
No they did not.

AM1 is still 1:30
AM2 is still 2:00
AM3 is still 3:00

Old AM2 on level 80 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 389
tp 203 attack: 421 - 389 = 32 attack
tp 208 attack: 423 - 389 = 34 attack
tp 256 attack: 452 - 389 = 63 attack
tp 291 attack: 474 - 389 = 85 attack
tp 298 attack: 478 - 389 = 89 attack

New AM2 on level 85 weapon:
tp 207 attack 488 - 454 = 34 attack
tp 289 attack 543 - 460 = 83 attack

Don't know what happened to my base attack there but it does not matter.
AM2 stayed the same at level 85. So we can assume AM1 and AM3 also stayed the same

Conclusion:
Vajra was awesome at level 80 and it got a bit more awesome at level 85.

If a Mandau thf on Levi is reading this: I would like to have a showdown between Vajra and mandau.
Please send me a tell in-game or PM me. Thank you. inb4 parses don't matter.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 8:20pm by Breaze
#68 Sep 21 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not gonna lie, those numbers are starting to get quite high... like really high lol. I'm interested in seeing you parse off as well.

Still don't know about the exact potency of it but I'm sure your estimate is relatively close if not the real thing. Props for sticking with the trials.
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#69 Sep 22 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Sha. Still not sure what to use as off-hand. SE keeps cranking out these nice daggers which all look interesting: Auric, Rapidus Sax, thunder kila+1, Fusetto+1 (ws boost version). Leaning towards Rapidus Sax now but that will probably change again this update.
#70 Sep 23 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought fusetto(+1) ws damage only worked on main hand. Someone did cyclones and didn't see a dmg increase
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#71 Sep 23 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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okay but can somebody with final upgrade version confirm this?
#72 Dec 18 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Did 4 tinnin today. Turns out you don't have to let Tinnin regen to 100%. You can just start killing it as soon as you pop it.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/Vajra90.jpg

Aftermath duration and strength stayed the same for level 90 Vajra. I will do SA tests soon.
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#73 Dec 18 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Lookin very sexy. I have to wonder if the bonus counts towards the crit dmg+ cap, which would/could be lame for Abyssea.
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#74 Dec 19 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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thf/nin SA test with gear: lvl 90 vajra
STR 78 + 16
DEX 96 + 65 = 161
attack 478

All targets - Tiny Mandragora.

Vajra, base dmg: 47 Enhances SA effect IV
1. 1081
2. 1200
3. 1083
4. 1213
5. 1150
6. 1180
7. 1171
8. 1131
9. 1186
10.1148

high: 1213 low: 1081 average: 1154,3

Keep in mind that in the last test I used a Qirmiz Tathlum in my SA setup. Which I now have replaced with raider's boomerang. And I am still missing AF3+1 hands.
I think this is just another 5%-10% boost to SA and TA. That would make the total boost come out at 25%-30%.

@shamaya: I don't think this boost counts towards the crit dmg+ cap of 50% we see in Abyssea. Yesterday I did a test with a ls thf (laphine). We both equipped the same atma's: RR, SS, GH. We would SA the same monster each time. And we still saw a difference (around 300dmg) in SA damage in my favour. And Laphine does have AF3+1 hands and I do not.
I had 281DEX and 575 attack. Laphine had 265DEX and 594 attack.

It would be very weird if SE made Vajra enhances SA and TA damage "cap" in abyssea. I think the enhances SA/TA effect on Vajra works more like AF1+1 hands and AF3+1 hands. And those don't have a cap as far as I know.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 2:44pm by Breaze
#75 Dec 19 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

It would be very weird if SE made Vajra enhances SA and TA damage "cap" in abyssea. I think the enhances SA/TA effect on Vajra works more like AF1+1 hands and AF3+1 hands. And those don't have a cap as far as I know.


I second this motion. It's the most logical way to program it (SA/TA == original damage multiplied by X where X is Vajra boost). I trust Breaze here; the boost should be independent of any crit caps.
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#76 Dec 21 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Reports comming in that lvl 90 Burtgang got a buff to ws damage. Atonement has a new damage cap of 860. Normally the cap for Atonement is 750.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/90723-Relic-Augments/page98

I know two people on my server with a lvl 90 burtgang. I ask them later if this is true.

*edit*
The lvl 90 Burtgang/Atonement buff is confirmed by Flic. Mandalic Stab on a lvl 90 Vajra looks stronger too. Tests later.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 10:56pm by Breaze
#77 Dec 21 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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All lvl 90 relic/mythic weaponskills got a buff. It is weapon only.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/90723-Relic-Augments/page99

15% dmg boost on mythic ws based on burtgang and atonement dmg.
860 : 750 = 1.1466 15% boost rounded up.

Did Vajra and mandy stab get the same 15% dmg bonus on ws?
All targets Tiny Mandragora. Thf/sam used ws only. Did not use SA because Vajra boosts SA. I need to focus on the ws only.

Vajra base dmg: 47
710
626
606
218 (main hand missed?)
506
133 (main hand missed?)
518
589

Angr Harpe base dmg: 46
513
447
545
552
513
592

Take highest dmg from each test:
710 : 592 = 1.199 20% boost rounded up. Take into account the small sample size and the difference in base damage for each dagger and 15% is a very plausible number.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 2:24am by Breaze
#78 Dec 22 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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Sexy time.
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#79 Nov 08 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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I know its a big fat necro, but wave been wondering since i havent seen anything on it explicitly.

Do the 15% mythic and 25% relic WS boosts that happened at lv 90 include the SATA damage? IE- does it take whatever the log says (Aanalaty uses mercy/mandalic and deals XXXX damage) and multiply by 15/25%? Or does it separate the damage actually from the WS, multiply that by 15/25% and then tack on SATA damage separately?

Was wondering about this today and couldnt find any info. Presumably because it only matters at all to Thf mains with relic or Mythic(all 2 of em).

I think those boosts ignore SATA, but i cannot for the life of me remember why i think that (where i read it or what else works that way that would imply it).

Any idea from relic or mythic owners?
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#80 Nov 09 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Good question. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You saying option 1: 15% mythic WS boost that includes SA damage. Would look like this:
1000dmg ws + 1000dmg SA = 2000 + 15% (WS boost) = 2300

Option 2: 15% mythic WS boost that boosts ws only and adds SATA damage separately. Would look like this:
1000dmg ws + 15% (WS boost) = 1150dmg + 1000dmg SA = 2150

I would assume it would be option 2: seperate boosts. But I can't say for sure. In order to test this I would have to use solo ws, then solo SA, then SAws on level 1 monsters.

I test this when I have time for it :)
#81 Nov 09 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Yup that is exactly what I'm asking :]

I would hate to overlook something that significant on ws damage. It would change the comparison of twash(no boost) vs both relic/mythic. I have been considering what project I might undertake when lance mythic is done and considered mandau to pair with twash and thought if this while dreaming of DW both and what to mainhand :P we may have to revisit rudra vs mercy/mandalic :)

It would also adjust the value of dex/agi vs wsc.

I look forward to the results :]

Edited, Nov 9th 2011 10:58am by Banalaty

Edit:
Technically, you would only have to SAWS if you are confident in the damage formula for your SA's (little funky for vajra) and the mandalic stab formula. 15% is enough of a bonus espsecially with the SATA boosts on mythic to be able to tell pretty quick.

Worst case, you probably only need to test SA solo for lv 95 boost numbers then SAWS and skip solo WS boosts since i havent seen any reports of relic or mythic getting WS damage boosts since the 15/25 at lv 90 and just predict WS damage on paper if you want to save some time.

Edited, Nov 9th 2011 11:27am by Banalaty
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#82 Jan 04 2012 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Breaze wrote:

Old AM2 on level 75 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 354
tp 207 attack: 376 - 354 = 22 attack
tp 299 attack: 413 - 354 = 59 attack

New AM2 on level 80 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 389
tp 203 attack: 421 - 389 = 32 attack
tp 208 attack: 423 - 389 = 34 attack
tp 256 attack: 452 - 389 = 63 attack
tp 291 attack: 474 - 389 = 85 attack
tp 298 attack: 478 - 389 = 89 attack

That is a 50% boost in attack across the board.

Going from this we can assume AM1 also gained in potency and now offers more accuracy. 50% more? What would that mean?

Old AM1 on level 75 weapon:
+10 accuracy at 100tp and scales up linear to +19 accuracy at 199tp

New AM1 on level 80 weapon (assuming 50% boost as seen on AM2):
+15 accuracy at 100tp and scales up linear to +29 accuracy at 199tp

AM3 probably has the same double attack rate but got a boost by adding the 60s extension as confirmed.

I finally have some time for this. Testing new AM2 on level 95 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 611
tp 203 attack: 652 - 611 = 41 attack
tp 210 attack: 657 - 611 = 46 attack
tp 256 attack: 685 - 611 = 74 attack
tp 293 attack: 706 - 611 = 95 attack
tp 297 attack: 709 - 611 = 98 attack

If you compare these numbers to the old lvl 80 results you see again a boost in aftermath. The boost is not 50% this time. It seems to add only 9 to 11 attack from the previous boost. I take what I can get :)

AM2 is still 2:00min in duration. Which is the same as the lvl 80 version.

I assume the AM1 also gained a small accuracy boost which is hard to test.
AM3 got an obvious boost because the description changed to: occasionally attacks twice or thrice.

It will be really interesting to know what SE has in store for the lvl 99 upgrade quest. The item I need comes from PW. Here is to hoping SE either changes the ZNM system or I need to kill PW only 3 to 5 times.

@Banalaty: sorry I still did not answer your question yet. Do you still want to know the answer?

Edited, Jan 7th 2012 5:59pm by Breaze
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#83 Jan 04 2012 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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the REAL question is...
does it blend??
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#84 Jan 05 2012 at 1:59 AM Rating: Good
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If anyone feels like analyzing this, go for it~!
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Talk:Vajra_%28Level_95%29
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#85 Jan 05 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Could you give a bit more information? What are you analysing exactly?
#86 Jan 05 2012 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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The idea was to confirm the 25% bonus and determine how it stacks with WS, but I ended up using Dancing Edge instead of Shark Bite because its fTP doesn't vary with TP.

It looks like the 25% boost does apply to the whole damage term for normal SAs (including weapon damage). For the second set (94 DEX) we would predict a max damage of:
(94+51+13)*3.15*1.14*1.25 = 707 (after flooring)
assuming a 25% boost to the whole SA damage term from Vajra.

So it looks like it's boosting the damage of the whole SA'd hit instead of the DEX or AGI component (like AF1+1 or AF3+1/2) hands. This begs the question of how it would affect weaponskills. Would it increase the damage of the whole weaponskill by 25%? The first hit (including modifiers)? Just the DEX or AGI portion? Can you do super awesome SATA Shark Bites with damage+50% (or +56.25%)?

I didn't bring the right gear (or sub) to gain TP quickly on L0 monsters on THF, so I stabbed with Dancing Edge because it doesn't require TP control and hoped to get lucky.

Dancing Edge (171 DEX):
(134*1.1875+171)*3.15*1.19*1.25 = 1545 for max damage or 1287 for min damage. My hits were 1489 and 1485, which proves nothing really. They're both above 3.0 pDIF assuming this model, which is probable if the model is correct, but they aren't conclusive. They are above what you would expect if the 25% modifier ignored base damage/WSC, though.

Dancing Edge (94 DEX):
228*3.15*1.14*1.25 = 1022 for max damage or 852 for min damage. I got 894, which doesn't really show anything.
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#87 Jan 07 2012 at 4:53 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
@Banalaty: sorry I still did not answer your question yet. Do you still want to know the answer?


If possible, yes. It doesnt matter so much for vajra (only 15% boost, and the WS is less impressive than mercy), but it would for stacked mercy stroke (25% boost, much stronger 3ftp, 60% str mod). Although with the big boost to SA/TA on Vajra, that 15% applying to a super sized SATA might make up some of that ground :)

I am a little on the fence if i want to do a Mandau (and offhand twash) and take thf to that extra oomph level, even though a little redundant with twash already, or invest that into an Annihilator for rng (obviouly much more 'efficient' but i dont love rng like i do thf).

If the 25% boost applies to the whole SATA+Mercy shabang, i might be more tempted to do that than if it only applies to the 3ftp part and ignores the big fat dex/agi boost from SATA. (assuming of course that the mythic 15% works the same as the relic 25% and thus your test would give insight to relics :P)



Edited, Jan 7th 2012 5:54am by Banalaty
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#88 Jan 08 2012 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Breaze wrote:
option 1: 15% mythic WS boost that includes SA damage. Would look like this:
1000dmg ws + 1000dmg SA = 2000 + 15% (WS boost) = 2300

Option 2: 15% mythic WS boost that boosts ws only and adds SATA damage separately. Would look like this:
1000dmg ws + 15% (WS boost) = 1150dmg + 1000dmg SA = 2150

I would assume it would be option 2: seperate boosts. But I can't say for sure. In order to test this I would have to use solo ws, then solo SA, then SAws on level 1 monsters.

In reply to Banalaty. I finally did the test:

lvl 99 thf/sam
lvl 95 Vajra 51 dmg enhances SA effect 4
DEX 109+80
STR 87+24
attack 587

All targets tiny mandy:
SA solo:
1. 1687
2. 1485
3. 1498
4. 1466
5. 1556

SAws:
1. 3031
2. 2633
3. 2872
4. 2650
5. 2558

ws solo:
1. 565
2. 583
3. 703
4. 600
5. 662

Now lets take highest ws number: 710 (comes from old lvl 90 Vajra test scroll up to see).
Then take highest SA number: 1687.
710 + 1687 = 2397dmg this number is not even close to my lowest SAws number of 2558. So my conclusion is option 1 seems possible. Option 1 15% mythic WS boost that includes SA damage. That is good news :)






Edited, Jan 8th 2012 10:14pm by Breaze
#89 Jan 09 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Just checking, the 710 damage WS is just 1hit (assuming near 100TP so 2.0ftp) and NOT crit-ed? Are you accounting for that 710 becoming a crit if stacked with SA?

It looks like you just took the 710 non-crit WS and added it to the SA, but if they were stacked, the 710 would get jumped up with the crit and crit damage bonus traits/gear. Just want to make sure im not overlooking something before i go make a mandau and wonder why im not getting 25% to a full SATAMS :P

Side note: I finished my Drg mythic, so once its 95 i can compare notes on aftermath and stuff :)

Edited, Jan 9th 2012 5:03pm by Banalaty
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#90 Jan 10 2012 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Well herp derp me. You are right.

Grats on your drg mythic :)

#91 Jan 10 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Well in that case, we can turn your numbers into crits and see how it works out. How much crit bonus you get in gear and junk. I believe your SA numbers were in 14% crit damage, so assuming thats what you had for your SATAWS numbers (if you have a different crit bonus let me know and we can figure it out for that instead).

1687 SA.
710 WS.

710 was obviously at capped atk, and probably deecent rolls on randomizers. so 2.52 is highest possible Pdif with 2 good rolls. Crit max with good rolls is 3.15.

3.15/2.52= 25% more damage if it was critted. So take 710*1.25=887.

Now we add whatever your crit bonus was. Going with 14%+5%(Trait+lokis) to match your SA numbers. If you had other crit damage lemme know :)
887*1.19=1055

So if you had SA+WS on that one, it would have been 1055 give or take a couple points. (depends on how close to 'perfect' your randomizer rolls were to get that 710)

1055+SA damage, but we have to remove Vajra's weapon damage from the SA and only include dex since SAWS doesnt count your weapon twice.

1687 was 189 dex+51 Vajra base damage. Going with the 25% boost to entire SA via Vajra instead of just the dex as i think i understand it, also assuming Raider+2 gloves and 19% crit damage boost (correct me if these assumptions are wrong prz xD)

Working it backwards:
Dex=189*1.2=226 base damage via dex.(Raid+2 dex bonus)
51 damage dagger.
13 Capped fstr
SA=226+51+13=290 base damage.
290*3.15(max crit Pdif)=913
913*1.25=1141 (SA IV enhancement)
1141*1.19=1357 (19% Crit bonus)

Hmm now im not sure. That doesnt quite line up with your SA numbers at all. What am I overlooking for your SA numbers?


Im retarded. I forgot mandies weak to piercing. No wonder. ANYWAY >_>
1357*1.25=1696(piercing boost)

Long story short, my mathed out SA damage max (now with piercing bonus!) is 1696. You got 1687. Now were playing ball.

OK same thing but remove Vajra 51 base damage and Fstr (since those get moved to the WS and we cant count it twice)
SA=1320 (dex onry)
WS=887
____________________________________________________

Total if 15% WS damage applies ONLY to WS: 2207 (807+1320)
Total if 15% WS damage applies to WS+ AND SA:2405 (887+(1696*1.15))
Your recorded highest:3031

WTF >_>

K lets try out adding in the inconclusive 25% SA boost byrth was messing with.
15% WS damage(NOT on SA) and 25% SATA boost(applied to WS)=2428 (887*1.25)+1320
15% WS damage(YES on SA) and 25% SATA boost (applied to WS)=2626 (887*1.25)+(1320*1.15)
Your recorded:3031

More WTF >_>

Someone help me out. I have to be overlooking something to be missing 400+ damage. Whats the dealio?

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 5:21pm by Banalaty
K...so only thing i can figure is if you add the weapon damage+fstr into BOTH the SA and WS part of the function. If you do that then including:
15% Mythic WS damage applies to SA when stacked
25% SATA IV enhancement applies to WS when stacked.
25% Piercing
19% Crit damage boost (Trait IV+lokis)
20% Dex boost from Raid+2
Weapon/Fstr gets counted twice

If all that is true, damage works out to ~3000 even give or take flooring and crap. Your number 3031. Thats the only thing i can figure to make the observed fit a model. Am i missing some glaring thing? Did you ahve more crit damage gear? Was WS set severely different than SA set? I dont like things not addign up.

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 5:26pm by Banalaty
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#92 Jan 10 2012 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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I showed that the Vajra bonus applies to the entire first hit above. Mythic WS boosts supposedly are an external term that applies to the entire WS's damage (even after DAs/TAs).
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#93 Jan 11 2012 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah but even including every bonus i know of, it still falls way short of his numbers. I was ~400 damage short of his highest with:

25% Vajra SATA bonus (applied to both SA and WS)
15% Mythic WS bonus (applied to both SA and WS)
25% Piercing (mandys)
20% dex boost (raider gloves)
19% crit damage (14% trait, 5% lokis)

With all that, i still only get 2626 give or take a couple points if i missed flooring something. His are over 3k. Wheres the 400 damage coming from?
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#94 Jan 11 2012 at 2:15 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I think something else may be going on:

WS damage with 189 DEX, 100TP, no gorgets/belts, and +15% from Vajra should be:
floor(floor(189*.3)*.85)+51+13 = 111
111*2 = 222
222*2.5 = 555
555*1.15 = 638 damage max
638/2.5*1.56 = 398 damage min

He got a range from 452 to 563 (without piercing), so that is viable. It's not very conclusive though, as only 40% of the possible damage range is covered. A damage multiplier of 1.25 would also work.


SA: 1173 to 1350 (75% of the possible range covered)

51+13+189 = 253
253*3.15*1.14*1.25 = 1135, so something else is going on
51+13+189*1.2 = 290 (THF AF3+2 hands)
290*3.15*1.14*1.25 = 1301, so we're getting closer
290*3.15*1.19*1.25 = 1358, so he was probably wearing Loki's and AF3+2 hands


SA WS: 2026 ~ 2425 (98% of the possible range covered)
(111*2+226)*3.15*1.19*1.15*1.25 = 2414
2414/1.2 = 2011
If we're willing to chalk the last 11 damage up to fTP, I'd say it all works out!


What gear were you wearing and what TP were you WSing at, Breaze?
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#95 Jan 11 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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My gear:

Main: Vajra (lvl 95)
Off: Thokcha (STR dagger)
Ranged: Raider's Bmrng
Head: Ocelomeh Headpiece
Neck: Love Torque
Body: Loki's Kaftan
Hands: Raider's Armlets +2
Back: Nifty Mantle
Waist: Cuchulain's Belt
Legs: Hecatomb Subligar (no aguments)
Feet: Athos's Boots
Ear1: Pixie Earring
Ear2: Aesir Ear Pendant
Ring1: Thundersoul Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring

I made sure I wore the same gear for SA, SAws and ws. The high number of 3000+ is probably due I used SAws near 300tp
I should have written down the tp as I did each ws. Sorry about that. And compliments to Banalaty for back tracking the gear I used.

Edited, Jan 11th 2012 5:05pm by Breaze
#96 Jan 11 2012 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah I just redid the numbers and got exactly what you did 2414. 3017 With piercing. I must have forgot to carry the 1or something before. Don't mind me, it all works out. Seems BOTH effects carry over to the whole thing. 15%Mythic boost includes SATA (and probably 25% mandau does same) AND the 25% SATA boost mythic effect includes ws. That is really nice and makes mythic dagger far more impressive than I had imagined. This is great info and might solidify twash vs mandau and even put vajra back in the race :

Edited, Jan 11th 2012 11:50am by Banalaty
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#97 Jan 11 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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K bad news then if that was near 300tp. Ftp bumped up to 2.5 places max damage at 3391. Min at 3208. 3031 No longer fits. However if you remove the 15% mythic ws boost from the sa part of the damage, max is 3192. Min 3020. Now your 3031 fits right in. The extra damage was from you extra tp, not the mythic 15% carrying over if I'm reading this right =(
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#98 Jan 14 2012 at 4:20 AM Rating: Good
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The level 99 version seems to have +30% damage. I couldn't test Mandalic Stab because the NA versions on the test server are glitched.

Edited, Jan 14th 2012 5:20am by Byrthnoth
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