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#1 Oct 29 2009 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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So it's no secrete that THF does pretty awful DMG to mobs with high Defense. SE has been pretty big on job stances as of late so this is my take on it. Give THF a stance that gives 100% Crit rate but reduces attack speed. This would at least let us be kept in parties after TH4 gets landed. Any thoughts? Anything better?

Edited, Nov 1st 2009 6:53pm by TaruMalphius
#2 Oct 29 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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/war
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#3 Oct 29 2009 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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Apparently the Admins don't like me, as my green arrows put people to default...

But yeah, /war.
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#4 Oct 30 2009 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
While the OP isn't all that articulate, I'd definitely not be opposed to thf getting a bone thrown to us in the DD department against higher end mobs.
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#5 Oct 30 2009 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
Mandalic Stab has an attack modifier which makes it pretty **** good on mobs with high defense. On floor 100 Nyzul bosses as DRG/SAM with great gear and meat my Drakesbanes/Wheeling Thrusts vary between 600-900(no 2hr) where I've seen SATA Mandalic Stabs for 700-1200.
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#6 Oct 30 2009 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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TaruMalphius wrote:
So it's no secrete that THF does pretty awful DMG to mobs with high Defense. SE has been pretty big on job stances as of late so this is my take on it. Give THF a stance that gives 100% Crit rate but reduces attack speed. This would at least let us be kept in parties after TH4 gets landed. Any thoughts? Anything better?


Dreaming much?

And while they are at it they can give NIN a stance that allows them to doge all melee attacks while reducing HP and BLM an ability that reduces casting timers to 0 in exchange for increasing MP cost.


Not. Gonna. Happen.


Something more reasonable might be a stance for 1H weapons. It would grant a x1.5 attack bonus to critical hits, increase critical hit rate and decrease weapon delay on 1H weapons but cut your evasion and defense by 20% each.

lvl 15 1h weapon delay -5% / Critical hit rate +5%

lvl 30 1h weapon delay -10% / Critical Hit rate +10%

lvl 50 1h weapon delay -15% / Critical hit rate +15%



Edited, Oct 30th 2009 4:11am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#7TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 30 2009 at 11:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) By mobs with high defense I don't mean things like floor 100 NM's or exp mobs. We do good damage to those as is and I don't think anything extra is needed. What I mean is HNM's like Turtle, Faffy, and the like. /war doesn't cut it...at all.
#8 Oct 30 2009 at 5:17 PM Rating: Default
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It is a bad idea, and hence got shot down quickly, for a few reasons. I'll just give the obvious one, and let the math people show you the rest(if they feel like it).

First, your stance already exists in game. WARs can do it every two hours, it's called Mighty Strikes. The two examples that were given above of the NIN dodging all physical attacks, and the BLM casting with casting timers vastly reduced were using analogous scenarios. In short, NIN getting Perfect Dodge, and BLM getting Chain Spell. Both of which are ludicrous ideas, as the poster intended them to be seen. The power of the buff you're asking for is just too powerful.

Quote:
Monk got footwork. Does it suck? Well ya kinda but it was meant to address a specific issue.
And SE failed, horribly. Footwork is useful for exactly two instances. 1) Footwork + 300% TP + Dragon Kick for a big WS. And MNK doesn't often stand around building up to 300% TP before striking. 2) Using before a WS for increased TP gain, then removing right after. Even with the upgraded Mythic Weapon, footwork is still lol. A MNKs DoT is just too massive to give up for footwork.

Honestly, what you wrote sounds like it would be used for a big WS only. 100% Crit rate + higher TP return for the WS due to the increased delay. And last I checked, THF generally doesn't have any issues with their WS (assuming they're able to stack with SA or TA).

Edited, Oct 30th 2009 3:23pm by Cyth
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
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#9TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 31 2009 at 2:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) How would attacking slower give increased TP? Also last I checked thief wasn't invited to endgame specifically because they do ****** damage on high lv mobs.
#10 Oct 31 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Attacking slower will be give more TP per SWING. Hence why artificially increasing your delay for a WS, then cancelling the effect, would give you more TP back on the WS.

If you were to keep up the effect during TP phase, the TP gain would likely be similar in TP per unit time.
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#11 Oct 31 2009 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I don't understand all the DD mechanics of the game. I was under the impression that only the weapon delay rating on your weapon effected tp. I better unstack all my haste gear.

I never said it had to be the way I stated 100% only that it needs to be SOMETHING that makes us more than TH ***** in endgame.

Edited, Oct 31st 2009 4:06pm by TaruMalphius

Edited, Oct 31st 2009 4:07pm by TaruMalphius
#12 Oct 31 2009 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Being a smartass might have worked, if not for the effect of Dual Wield and footwork on TP gain. Dual wield artifically lowers your delay, and lowers TP gain per hit. Footwork artifically raises your delay, and raises your TP gain per hit.

Slow and Haste will not effect your TP gain per hit, get slowed by a Spider if you want to confirm. However, job traits or job abilities that change your delay do change TP gain per hit, except Hasso. Hence why a MNK often pops Footwork before a WS such as Asuran Fists, then cancels it.

Edit:

Quote:
I never said it had to be the way I stated 100% only that it needs to be SOMETHING that makes us more than TH ***** in endgame.
And that is why I said it was a bad idea, and that it got shot down. I never said THF doesn't need something, just that what you suggested was a bad idea.

Edited, Oct 31st 2009 1:13pm by Cyth
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#13TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 31 2009 at 3:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And where are you assuming this delay in attack speed needs to be the effect of dual wield + whatever? It could add slow for all I care.
#14 Oct 31 2009 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Then you need to specifically mention that. Don't give an idea to improve a job that's half baked. Do a little bit of forethought, so you don't come off as "hay guyz, i wana do mity strikes lik teh WARs!" If you're going to make a suggestion for improving this, or any job, put a bit of thought into it.
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#15TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 31 2009 at 3:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I just tossed it out there. It's up to SE to decide the game mechanics of it. I don't really care how they implement it.
#16 Oct 31 2009 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I just tossed it out there. It's up to SE to decide the game mechanics of it. I don't really care how they implement it.
Wow, so you're a manager on the design team now, huh? I don't think SE has to decide the game mechanics for your suggestion.

Dear SE: Please give my THF Mighty Strikes and slow on a 5 minute timer. Thank you. And while your at it, could you give my MNK Invincible, my BLM Chainspell, and my SAM Hundred Fist? Of course add in slow.
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#17 Oct 31 2009 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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No, i'm just not an @#%^ with a 4000 post count cause he likes to argue on alla and BG. SE takes suggestions off of the fan boards all the time. I'm not gonna worry about the details because SE knows how to code their game better than me (or you).

And of course, people like you keep using crappy analogies to compare to mine. THF is a DoT job with a low lv weapon. So cutting attack speed seems like the natural trade off. BTW i'm gonna link to how hasso and seigan work. I don't wanna ruin the surprise...but they both deal with delay.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hasso
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hasso



Edited, Oct 31st 2009 4:44pm by TaruMalphius
#18 Oct 31 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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But Seigan doesn't have anything to do with delay, and Hasso's delay decrease works the same way Dancer's does, which is like Haste exclusively for melee swings.
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#19 Oct 31 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Well I don't want to ruin the surprise, but you didn't read my previous post very well.

Quote:
Slow and Haste will not effect your TP gain per hit, get slowed by a Spider if you want to confirm. However, job traits or job abilities that change your delay do change TP gain per hit, except Hasso. Hence why a MNK often pops Footwork before a WS such as Asuran Fists, then cancels it.


I'm aware that Hasso gives a Haste like effect to your weapon without changing TP gain. I'm also aware of what Hasso and Seigan do to your spell timers when SAM/NIN. It's sort of obvious.

So you make a suggestion of "Give me Mighty Strikes", and think SE would even take that seriously? Are you demented? In case you were unaware, there have been literally hundreds of "improve my job threads" on the THF forum alone. If you want to make yours stand out, then try having a good idea. Hence why it was shot down, the THFs on this board recognized it straight away.

THIS WAS A BAD IDEA.
THIS WAS A BAD IDEA.
THIS WAS A BAD IDEA.

And btw, I don't post to BG. And my 4000+ post count is due posting since 2004, as I've been playing this game since May of 2004.

Edit:

I didn't add this originally, since I thought it was obvious. But if you were to have a Job Ability that increased your Delay, and it DIDN'T increase you TP gain per Hit, well that would be just plain stupid. Not only would you lower your TP phase damage, but you would lower WS frequency. Hence why I was comparing the TP gain in an analogous fashion to Footwork and Dual Wield.

Edited, Oct 31st 2009 2:02pm by Cyth
____________________________
RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#20TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 31 2009 at 3:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm done arguing. If you wanna be constructive do it. If not gtfo.
#21 Oct 31 2009 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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That's the pot calling the kettle black.

Constructive on what? A bad idea? Why don't you gtfo, since it's obvious you want a change to THF, but you obviously can't be bothered with the trifling details like GAME BALANCE.
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#22TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 31 2009 at 4:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Like I said, that is up to SE to do it with a balance and I asked for better ideas in my OP. I read 1 and it wasn't from you. Many people including myself, only play for fun and couldn't care less about learning game mechanics...Though I don't see how axe or GA = dagger. I have better things to do with my time than to worry about what piece of gear will give me a 1.2% increase on parse etc.
#23 Oct 31 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
/war

Quote:
But yeah, /war.

Quote:
Mandalic Stab has an attack modifier which makes it pretty **** good on mobs with high defense.

Quote:
Something more reasonable might be a stance for 1H weapons. It would grant a x1.5 attack bonus to critical hits, increase critical hit rate and decrease weapon delay on 1H weapons but cut your evasion and defense by 20% each.

lvl 15 1h weapon delay -5% / Critical hit rate +5%

lvl 30 1h weapon delay -10% / Critical Hit rate +10%

lvl 50 1h weapon delay -15% / Critical hit rate +15%

That's funny, a LOT of people gave you ideas of how to improve your THF, BUT THEY MUST NOT HAVE POSTED BECAUSE YOU SAID SO!

Get over yourself, call in your White Knights to rate me down, because I ANSWERED YOUR CONCERN. Which in case you missed it, was...
Quote:
I don't really see why it's such a pipe dream and getting shot down so quick.
How dare I indeed.
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#24TaruMalphius, Posted: Oct 31 2009 at 4:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ya now all I have to do is sub /war HNM and all our war,sam,drk,drg will be replaced with thief. You should spread the word brother.
#25 Oct 31 2009 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Those jobs you mentioned do nothing EXCEPT do damage. Well, the DRK can stun, but whatever. No one likes them anyway. Expecting to do damage to the same degree as them on HNMs is kinda silly, unless you're buffed and geared like mad.
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#26 Oct 31 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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Raenil wrote:
Those jobs you mentioned do nothing EXCEPT do damage. Well, the DRK can stun, but whatever. No one likes them anyway. Expecting to do damage to the same degree as them on HNMs is kinda silly, unless you're buffed and geared like mad.


All jobs should at least be useful in endgame. And by that I DON'T mean "poke the mob once and then go stand aside and watch other people play"

Yes there are other jobs in the same boat. They need to be fixed too.

Edited, Oct 31st 2009 10:56pm by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
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