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#1 Oct 14 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I am planning on leveling my THF, i mainy use sword on it, i will switch to dagger once i get viper bite and trick attack. My question is is it really better pre viper bite to use sword. Whenever i pt i always do very good dmg, i feel as if i used daggers it would be as useful as poking the monster with toothpicks due to daggers low attack.

What do all you THF's think?
#2 Oct 14 2009 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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Thf/mnk and SA combo is devastating pre viper bite. Starting at 20thf/10rng, you get accuracy bonus, sharpshot and /ra weaponskills which are on par with sword ws. /cor ive heard is great too for lower lvls if ur pt doesnt have one already.

Use status bolts regardless of sub, use macros for tp, /ra, and sneak attack. precharge ur sneak attack between pulls, and flee for chains post 25. Alternatively, you can thf/rng or thf/nin post 25 and **** bolt spam, but dont forget to land an acid first.
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#3 Oct 14 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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As stated above nothing beats Thf/Mnk.

I would think about swaping to /rng or maybe /nin at 25.

Then ofcource dagger whenever u get VB.
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#4 Oct 14 2009 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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This is probably pretty obvious but you're going to want your Dagger skill high enough so you can actually use it once you reach the level for VB.
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#5 Oct 14 2009 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Whenever i pt i always do very good dmg, i feel as if i used daggers it would be as useful as poking the monster with toothpicks due to daggers low attack.


Learn while you are young. You don't have lower attack with dagger than any other weapon. It's actually the opposite. Daggers have low base damage and lack of a good damage dealing weapon skill pre-viper bite.

The only reason why other weapons might be better is because at very low levels, the difference in skill isn't significant enough to make them worthless and they provide a stronger weapon skill.
#6 Oct 14 2009 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you all, i have marksmanship and dagger capped enough for when i will need it. I want THF for sub only so i will level only to 37. I think i will go /nin for when i get hate and use effect bolts :D. but nonetheless THF is so fun and I like pulling so it doesn't bother me when i have to do it.
#7 Oct 15 2009 at 6:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Per the OP's discussion, this may not be the best place to throw this. But since the topic says "using sword,"

My LS mates begged me to use ridill on Thf at MMJ south merits. I told them how gimp it would be, that the math's been covered before, and I've parsed other thieves using it. But I decided after awhile to appease to their pleas. Much to my surprise, my damage% parse didn't really get (noticeably/definitively) lower. I still parsed in the mid 80's % range of acc with Pizza+1. Feinted an infiltrator and skoffin each cycle. Conclusions; Here are the reasons why ridill is probably not so atrocious anymore for thf: Pizza, Cuchulain's Mantle, Anwig Salade (10acc, 3% haste, 5atk). This coupled with 5/5 feint merits, normal homam gear, etc, and the hit rate and pDif is actually respectable.

I wouldn't say it's terribly gimp in the right situations. Of course it's amazing for salvage, etc, but I wouldn't say it was horribly far below my other offhand (X's). Maybe Blau/Ridill with the setup I outlined above wouldn't be so bad? Though I'm not sure how I'd compare it to sirocco or a proper fayne. Gotta have the correct setup/situation though.


As for sword at early levels it's exactly as carlcarl said.

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 12:39pm by Shamaya
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#8 Oct 16 2009 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Considering your dagger should have been at 90-95%, a 80% acc rating would put the ridill at 65-70% acc wouldn't it? That's still.. pretty bad isn't it?
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#9 Oct 16 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Considering your dagger should have been at 90-95%, a 80% acc rating would put the ridill at 65-70% acc wouldn't it? That's still.. pretty bad isn't it?


Depends on what that 65-70% actually amounts to in swings landed. Considering its a multi attack weapon with a high proc rate, I would suspect that could be reasonable?

I don't have one. But another thf in my shell swears by his....I don't know.

Edited, Oct 16th 2009 4:02pm by ThiefKiller
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#10 Oct 16 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Puks :(

The parsed accuracy was in the 85%ish range (as I mentioned). If I assume I had capped accuracy with dagger, and also assuming (just as an example) that puk flash brought this cap down to a parsed 93% instead of the normal 95%, and also assuming my swing volume between dagger and sword was equal, we'd have something like "(x% + 93%)/2 = 85%", or x=77%.

The puk flash % is a reasonable assumption. My parsed acc% could have been as low, though, as 83%. For swing volume, dagger and sword certainly wouldn't be equal; just guestimating, my ridill accuracy was probably higher than 77% thus. That's a little surprising I guess, but when you combine pizza with feint, with good equip including those items I mentioned, it probably doesn't seem so absurd.

I'm not arguing for ridill's use in a merit party. I don't use it. But the fact is that my parse didn't see a significant decrease at south camp when I adjusted my melee build to compensate for it. Anyone with this gear combination could go out and merit and see the same result. What I mean to point out is that with more recent changes (pizza, cuchulain's mantle, anwig salade, etc), ridill isn't as gimp for mid-range mobs as it once was.

It's not so much the tp-gain that makes it ~ok. I barely noticed increased TP gain with it. It's moreso the DPS, since with good accuracy and decent pDif, ridill's base dmg and swing volume begin to show.

Edit, Acc Summary-
Skill - 200 + (10 + 16merits + 5suppa)*0.9, 227

BaseDex - 80, 40
Gear(Dex&Acc) - Bomblet,Anwig,PCC,ACP,h.Hands, Rajas/Toreador,Cuchy,SkadiLeg,h.Feet - 69
Pizza+1 - *1.11

TotalAcc: (224 + 40 + 69)*1.11 = 372

By these numbers, this would cap acc on puks, put it around 80% on whm and blm mamools, and skoffin, 70%ish on drg's, bst's, and blu's, capped on pets, capped on infiltrators (feint) and another mob per 5 cycle(w/ 5/5merits).

Edited, Oct 17th 2009 12:00pm by Shamaya
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#11 Oct 16 2009 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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For your thief to swear by his, he ought to have some really good gear, capped sword merits (I do), be eating good food in the right circumstances, etc.

It has other uses. I used to think "lol, salvage weapon... ok...", but the increase in DPS in salvage actually has a noticeable effect on the run. At times, minutes are saved, and sometimes minutes means the difference between **** in another NM and not (good example being its DPS farming powderkeg. and if you farm SSR fast enough you can have enough time to also do gyroscopic gears and citadel chelonian with 6ppl, before the clock runs out). Or you can play in limbus. Floor 3 of Apollyon NE (pots, dolls) is fun if you DeaeGratia/Ridill. If you fight ixion, it can do wonders at the right camps. I actually have a unique offhand for ixion that I use sometimes, but sometimes ridill is best to allow you to kill TP mobs and build TP fast, to get back in there and get off a WS right as your SA comes back up, or b4 ix's next wave of TP moves.

Point-in-case, it's a useful weapon for odd situational use, but for midrange use it's lackluster. Due to recent gear/food though, this lackluster mediocrity is not nearly so bad as it was years ago.

Even so, it's likely that the majority of (thief's knife/)ridill thieves hold true the reputation we've affixed to them.
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#12 Oct 16 2009 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Why would you go /nin to ixion, a HNM fight.
#13 Oct 16 2009 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Because of the adjustment months ago where rampant stance is now absorbable by shadows ^^. Best sub to use for the fight.
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#14 Oct 16 2009 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Shamaya wrote:
For your thief to swear by his, he ought to have some really good gear, capped sword merits (I do), be eating good food in the right circumstances, etc.



Yeah he swears by it. Im not sure I agree with him lol.

I'm fairly sure he doesn't have sword merits, and he doesn't have your gear (or passion for maxmizing gear sets with such scrutiny).
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#15 Oct 17 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good
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Shamaya... you are my hero. <3

I've been trying to tell my friends who have Ridill that if they are going to use it constantly they should at least cap their sword merits. One doesn't even have a suppa (._.);

Oh how I wish I had a Ridill just so I could use it properly like Shamaya ; ;
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#16 Oct 17 2009 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Because of the adjustment months ago where rampant stance is now absorbable by shadows ^^. Best sub to use for the fight.

I still think it is silly to go /nin for one tp move which you should not be eating in the first place. I mean it is not hard to avoid rampant stance when you are /war or /drk.
#17 Oct 18 2009 at 3:14 AM Rating: Decent
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/blush

But the question is, Breaze, have you fought ixion? It's not a matter of wanting to avoid the TP move. I have some thoughts on ixion strategy but I think it would deserve its own thread.
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#18 Oct 18 2009 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes I have fought Ixion on thf and on brd.

I am interested to hear to your thf ixion strategy. If I can be more efficient on ixion going /nin I am all ears.
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