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#1 Sep 25 2009 at 11:54 AM Rating: Default
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I'm just wondering how Ermines/BD stacks up against the usual dagger combos i.e. X's/BD BD/SK and the likes.

Thanks in advance much appreciatied.
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#2 Sep 25 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Short version: It doesnt.

Long answer:

It has slightly (1.15% is TINY)higher DPS than sirocco. But that ignores
A)wind damage
B) Fstr advantage (faster weapons get better returns on base damage added from str than slower ones)
C) Faster TP gain from the super speedy blau/sirocco.
D) "Slows down Blau"

by "slows down" i mean just that. You dont just add the DPS of 2 daggers together. The slower dagger has the DPS of the total combo skewed towards that dagger. For an extreme example, Blau/Relic (the D1 del999 one). Blau DPS=11.12. Relic is 0.06. If you stick them together (ignoring DW for now) the DPS isnt the avg:
(11.12+0.06)/2=5.59.

You have to toss the delay in there.

Blau D33+relic D1=34 base damage.
Del 178+Del 999=Del 1177
New DPS=1.73
FAIL.

The DPS will lean toward the SLOWER weapon in any DW combo. Blau is our breadwinner in DPS so we want THAT to be the slow dagger when possible which is why Sirocco compliments so **** well. So even though by itself, Ermines has higher DPS than Sirocco, when paired with blau, Ermine/Blau DPS drops relative to Blau/Sirocco.

The difference between ermines and sirocco is ~1.15% in a vacuum (no wind, no Fstr, ignoring TP etc). Paired with blau,
Blau/sirocco=D33+D26=D59
Ermine/Blau=33+34=D67

Toss in the delay (20% DW)
B/S=178+150=328-20%=262.4=4.3733333
E/B=194+178=372-20%=297.6=496

DPS=
B/S=13.49
E/B=13.51

Result less dramatic than the relic dagger, but the difference between Ermine and sirocco is 0.12. With Blau its 0.02. Virtually identical. Toss in the Fstr bonus and Wind damage, and sirocco beats it hands down in DoT no questions asked. The extra +1 damage on WS is nothing and the significant TP speed of sirocco means more WS which stomps the miniscule damage bonus on WS from ermines. Sirocco wins on all fronts. More melee. More WS. Xs is agreed to be pretty much the same as sirocco and thus also stomps ermines easy. Its not a "Bad" dagger by any means and I wont call you gimp for using it and dont have Sirocco/Xs etc. But if you have the other daggers, your doing it wrong.

Ermines is a good dagger and pretty awesome for Dnc, but it is not a top end option for Thf. Sirocco is still the best most people can get and it still tops any other "easy" to get dagger hands down. (X's isnt "easy" :P)
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#3 Sep 26 2009 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not the kind of thing worth going into math for I don't think. Though I would be interested in how it'd be if we're talking lizards only.
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