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Maximizing SA/TA Damage (mathy mathy)Follow

#27 Jul 31 2009 at 2:14 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Well, it being 6am could also effect his decimal placement.
To co-opt a meme:

milich does not sleep.

He waits.
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#28 Jul 31 2009 at 2:19 AM Rating: Good
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MDenham wrote:
The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Well, it being 6am could also effect his decimal placement.
To co-opt a meme:

milich does not sleep.

He waits.


i wish i could sleep like normal people; ;. i also wish i didn't just run out of cigarettes. no more math for tonight, or i'll go insane.

edit: beer shortage... got in late, and decided not to start drinking at 1am, even though i guess it would have been fine considering, again, i don't sleep. though i also played chess online, which i don't do very well when i'm drinking. then again, if i recall, i lost anyway, so who cares.

final edit: sometimes i wonder what it means that >50% of the sentences i write start with 'though' or 'however' or 'but' etc. in speech as well as text, no less. more swearing in speech though. i think i might be tired; i seem to be getting self-indulgent.

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 6:21am by milich
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#29 Jul 31 2009 at 2:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Sleep has never been my forte as well. I forced myself into a *wake up at 8-10ish* "schedule" a week or two ago. And I just slowly drifted back into my nocturnal nature. I love being a night person.. but due to the fact that this conflicts with all my societies except my rave society I sometimes end up skipping a day of sleep. Smiley: lol

Sleep fails. Why can't everything be open 24/7 so that it can agree with me.

edit: oo oo, if I add in sirocco's DMG plus the fstr to it, does that mean I can just use that number and the percent will still be correct?

Like, 33 + 8 + 133 + 26 + 8 = 208, 1/208 = ~0.48?

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 6:35am by Deadgye
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#30 Jul 31 2009 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Sleep has never been my forte as well. I forced myself into a *wake up at 8-10ish* "schedule" a week or two ago. And I just slowly drifted back into my nocturnal nature. I love being a night person.. but due to the fact that this conflicts with all my societies except my rave society I sometimes end up skipping a day of sleep. Smiley: lol

Sleep fails. Why can't everything be open 24/7 so that it can agree with me.
This, exactly, even down to how long ago you started the 8-10ish thingie. Today I woke up at 2pm ;_;
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#31 Jul 31 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not surprised that attack would be worth more than we originally give it credit for, and I agree with the conclusion given. In addition I agree with the haste versus stats on everything Shamaya said. In the recent month I've been playing around with not only X's knife and crit setups, but also my tp burn setup and evisceration versus dancing edge (and more). I was going to post a summary of my data in a new topic, but since Shamaya went and posted this here I'll just summarize it in this post instead.

-----
1:) Slow versus Haste

I used to try and maximise every critical hit I did by swappping into the strongest damage options avaiilable to me for the critical no matter what. In the case of sneak attack that involved the hecatomb cap +1, gloves +1, and leggings +1.... and in the case of trick attack it simply meant losing all haste. I DID NOT enjoy swapping into my solo sneak attack set, especially when using my x's knife. As much as it sounds weird, I found my performance lessened drastically every time I solod a sneak attack with x's. The reason is that with x's delay of 201 being high to begin with, losing 17% melee haste and swapping in 27% slow (does slow cap at 25% like haste?) was NASTY!! It was ACTUALLY PAINFUL to see. I would go from swinging rounds every few seconds to a HUGE delay of 5++ seconds to get another in. I would just stop and stand there frozen in time, and that sucked!!! I've since modified my sneak attack set to remove the heca cap hands and feet, and replace em with dragon feet +1, artifact hands +1 (no annm hands yet) and my assassin's bonnet.

Yes, I actually dusted off my assassin's bonnet in place of heca cap +1 for solo sneak attack. The reason is that this IS part of our DoT, so swinging again soon matters. I refer to solo criticals as "Spike DoT" but they are still melee DoT nonetheless, and part of our tp building routine.


----
2:) Attack versus stats

I have always valued attack, and I've been preaching the merits of the charger mantle for the past two years. When I got sea access I bought in order, the brutal followed by the charger followed by the boxer's mantle. The charger is a NICE item for solo crits and I've been using it for years.

The concept is simple, and I've touched upon it before. If you have a huge base damage but low attack, raising attack will do a lot more than raisng base damage by a little more. My base damage in my max stats set is around 185, so raising base damage by 1 is worth about half a % of the crit, whereas raising the pDIF by 1 is worth almost twice as much, or two stat points. pDIF goes up by 1% around every 3-5 attack (usually 3-4) so attack DOES matter, and even though it will be a critical hit it's still going to play an important role in the outcome. I gave the ratio around 1 base stat to 4-5 attack but in actual practice that still underestimates its strength. Whenever I use berserk or cap my attack the damage shoots through the ROOF on solo criticals, and as /nin in a burn scenario THAT kind of attack is rarely seen (barring bard/cor of course).

-----------------
3:) Summary:

I agree with Shamaya on his analysis. However I think he should edit his OP. In his OP he accounts a hierarchy for each solo piece and gives heca a higher rank than I think it should get. Slow is exponentially cumulative. While ONE piece of heca will possibly fit into the grid, donning them ALL will have catastrophic results on your soloed sneak attacks. As I said, I even removed my heca cap +1 and replaced it with relic.

Thief Damage can be divided into two parts. Weaponskills and Melee DoT. As I said I like to call our solo criticals "Spike DoT", but they are melee DoT nevertheless. They are in the ritual of building tp to get to the point of weaponskill, so adding unnecessary slow when the difference is going to be minimal is generally a bad idea. The heca set will give monstrous slow for a very SMALL bonus to the overall damage of that crit when you consider the relativity of the siituation. In comparison to the wait time to attack again (it really is THAT painful) it's not worth it. Heca is weaponskill only --- The only possible exception may be the hecatomb subligar. THAT piece I would probably ok for a solo sneak attack if used alone. Just don't combine it with any of the other 4 and you should be fine.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 2:24pm by Melphina
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#32 Jul 31 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd say as a general rule for solo SA or solo TA 1dex/agi = 4 attack. When you're not pimp the stat is a little bit better, and when you are pimp the attack starts to get a little bit better. Pimp meaning have high stats. Smiley: tongue The math supports this conclusion, unless I did something wrong.

That being said, I can really on see charger's mantle being used for solo trick Attack, and the only reason I haven't bothered to get one is because while *** cape is slightly worse it also has enmity+5 on it. :x

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 12:49am by Deadgye
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#33 Jul 31 2009 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Sleep has never been my forte as well. I forced myself into a *wake up at 8-10ish* "schedule" a week or two ago. And I just slowly drifted back into my nocturnal nature. I love being a night person.. but due to the fact that this conflicts with all my societies except my rave society I sometimes end up skipping a day of sleep. Smiley: lol

Sleep fails. Why can't everything be open 24/7 so that it can agree with me.
I went to bed at about 4 AM last night and work up at about 7:40 AM. Wasn't a great day, but if I had to do it over I'd still stay up. :D

The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
That being said, I can really on see charger's mantle being used for solo trick Attack, and the only reason I haven't bothered to get one is because while *** cape is slightly worse it also has enmity+5 on it. :x
It also saves you 150 ABCs, or about 1.35 mil. If you have the gil to throw around, no big deal. I don't. _(._.)_




Edited, Aug 1st 2009 12:29am by bsphil
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#34 Jul 31 2009 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It also saves you 150 ABCs, or about 1.35 mil. If you have the gil to throw around, no big deal. I don't. _(._.)_


I just spent 150 coins on a jaguar mantle for my racc set recently. :3 At +120racc now.
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#35 Jul 31 2009 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Melphina wrote:
(does slow cap at 25% like haste?)
Unfortunately, no, gear slow does not cap. For that matter, total slow does not cap either, meaning that it's possible to be at ~200% slow (full HQ Heca + weakness + Slow II + Elegy).
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#36 Aug 01 2009 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, no, gear slow does not cap.


I had a hunch this was the case, and that's why I argued that the placement of heca in the OP should be noted with an asterisk***. Perhaps if you wear one of them for a solo SA you may be ok, but slap on four heca and you're going to delay the round so bad it wouldn't be worth it. With 4/5 nq (non body) heca in sneak attack you'll have 30% slow, and 34% with hq 4/5. Either way the stats don't justify the benefit because in relativity the increase is too small. It's easy to see with a simple example, and I'll use blau as main weapon with an fSTR of 6 + my stats. I merited dexterity 3 times so natural dex == 83

now consider these sets

assassin's bonnet, torque, pixie, suppa
skadi's, artifact +1, thunder, rajas
charger, cuchulain, dragon subligar +1, dragon feet +1

Total dex == 49
Total str == 5
Total slow == 0%
Total speed == 5% Dual Wield

Versus

Heca cap +1, torque, pixie, hollow
dragon harness +1, heca +1, thunder, rajas
charger, cuchulain, heca +1, heca +1

Total dex == 57
Total str == 32
Total Slow == 34%

The totals are then

33 (blau) + 83 (base dex) + 49 (gear dex) + 7 (Adding a bonus of fSTR from gear to the original fSTR of 6) == 172 base damage

Versus

33 (blau) + 83 (base dex) + 57 (gear dex) + 10 (I'll cap fSTR here) == 183 base damage


The first example is what I turned my current set into. This has a bit of room for upgrades now with skadi's visor (I agree here, adding 6 attack and 3% haste is worth 1 dex loss) and I can try and make another DH +1 or go for dusk legs, but I abhor movement down so I'm content with subligar +1 for now. There is also the ANNM hands with 7 dex too, but other than that it's pretty solid. The critical STILL packs a serious whallop with 172 base damage and a boost to attack, and it retains the original gear oriented delay plus the speed suppa adds. Not bad at all!!

The second scenario is the theoretical "max damage" for the critical. It has all of the components to maximize the solo to be as powerful as it can be. And while YES this critical WILL hit harder than the first one, if you cap attack and add all the base damage the difference is still only twelve base damage which caps at 36 actual damage in a perfect roll at capped attack. Now I don't know about you, but I can't justify raising the damage by such a small percentile at the expense of 34% slow. Thirty-four PERCENT slow is HUGE, and even without the legs that's what I saw for a little bit until I changed it out. The relative base damage increase of adding the hecatomb is approximately 5.5% increase, but the slow is 34% increase. THAT'S nasty >.<

I reiterate that when we solo a trick or sneak attack it is still part of our tp building routine. It's not a weaponskill and since it's not instant hecatomb's slow will matter and will compound exponentially. It's probably best to save hecatomb for weaponskills (but DO use the set THERE, that's what hecatomb is made for after all. It's a weaponskill set, use it as such!!). But in mellee DoT or solo, I'm not a huge fan of heca even in solo sneak attack.

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 9:32am by Melphina
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#37 Aug 01 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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The only reason I can see to use Heca for SA is if there's some obscure call for you to go THF/DRG and do SA+Jump (assuming that even works).
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#38 Aug 01 2009 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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One thing to realize is that while you may only be getting a 5~10% increase in damage from stats, that 32-36% decrease from slow is a decrease on the damage from your average attack round, which is a different damage source. I don't have the time right now to do the math, but I sure am going to do a lot of it before I change my gearsets, lol.

I am 100% sure however, that hecatomb is most likely still worth it while fighting most HNMs since your normal attack round damage output isn't going to be high. (Situational of course, if you have 2 minuet's and berserk and red curry buns it might not worth it. Smiley: lol)
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#39 Aug 03 2009 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Some crappy estimation maths tell me that changing Heca Cap+1 to *** head +1, Heca Mittens+1 to Enkidu Mittens, Heca Subligar to Dragon Subligar+1, and Heca Leggings+1 to Dragon Leggings+1 will lower your SA round damage by about 70(before piercing) and increase your damage from normal attack rounds because there's no slow by 30(before piercing). Therefore better to keep on the slow. Of course, this doesn't account for missing sneak attack, but meh.

Unless I did something wrong, here's the crappy lolnapkinmath that I spent maybe 15 minutes on. The gear choices may be.. a little out of wack. I didn't feel like using Mirke because I don't plan on ever getting it.

Main: X's Knife
Sub: Blau Dolch
Range: -
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Anwig Salade
Neck: Love Torque
Ear1: Brutal Earring
Ear2: Suppanomim
Body: Homam Corazza
Hands: Homam Manopolas
Ring1: Rajas Ring
Ring2: Toredor's Ring
Back: Cuchulain's Mantle
Waist: Swift Belt
Legs: Skadi's Chausses
Feet: Homam Gambieras

Level 82: Defense 327, Evasion 339, VIT 67, AGI 67
Coeurl Sub: Str+5 Agi+1 Attack+20(75)
1BRD: Attack+66 Haste+11%
haste: Haste + 15%

Str: 62 + 9 + 5 [76]
Dex: 80 + 14 [94]
Attack: 8 + 38 + 269 + 16 + 7 + 16 + 6 + 5 - 5 + 5 + 66 + 75 [506]
Acc: 200 + 82 + 47 + 5 + 6 + 10 + 15 + 4 + 7 + 5 + 3 + 4 + 6 [394]
Haste: 3 + 3 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 11 + 15 [41]

fstr = 3
cratio = 1.197
Acc% = 88.5
Base Damage = (34 + 3) && (33+3)

Main: X's Knife
Sub: Blau Dolch
Range: -
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Hecatomb Cap +1
Neck: Love Torque
Ear1: Brutal Earring
Ear2: Pixie Earring
Body: Skadi's Cuirie
Hands: Hecatomb Mittens +1
Ring1: Rajas Ring
Ring2: Thunder Ring
Back: Cuchulain's Mantle
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Legs: Hecatomb Subligar
Feet: Hecatomb Leggings +1

Level 82: Defense 327, Evasion 339, VIT 67, AGI 67
Coeurl Sub: Str+5 Agi+1 Attack+20(75)
1BRD: Attack+66 Haste+11%

Str: 62 + 41 + 5 [108]
Dex: 80 + 58 [138]
Attack: 8 + 269 + 16 + 7 + 16 + 12 + 5 + 20 + 54 + 66 + 75 [548]
Slow: 9 + 7 + 12 + 6 [34]

fstr = 11
cratio = 2.325
Base Damage = (34 + 11 + 138) + (33 + 11)


44.289 + 43.092 -> 90

425.475 + 58.3 -> 480


Main: X's Knife
Sub: Blau Dolch [Attack +16]
Range: -
Ammo: Bomb Core [Attack +12]
Head: Assassin's Bonnet +1 [Dex+6]
Neck: Love Torque [Dex+5 Dagger+7]
Ear1: Brutal Earring
Ear2: Pixie Earring [Dex+3]
Body: Skadi's Cuirie [Dex+8 Attack+5]
Hands: Enkidu Mittens [Str+4 Dex+4]
Ring1: Rajas Ring [Str+5 Dex+5]
Ring2: Thunder Ring [Dex+5]
Back: Cuchulain's Mantle [Str+4 Dex+4]
Waist: Warwolf Belt [Str+5 Dex+5]
Legs: Dragon Subligar +1 [Dex+5]
Feet: Dragon Leggings +1 [Dex+4 Attack+3]

Level 82: Defense 327, Evasion 339, VIT 67, AGI 67
Coeurl Sub: Str+5 Agi+1 Attack+20(75)
1BRD: Attack+66 Haste+11%

Str: 62 + 18 + 5 [85]
Dex: 80 + 54 [134]
Attack: 8 + 269 + 16 + 7 + 16 + 12 + 5 + 3 + 66 + 75 [477]
Slow: 0

fstr = 5
cratio = 2.108
Base Damage = (34 + 5 + 134) + (33 + 5)

364.684 + 42.104 -> 410

70 decrease; 30 gain


Inbeforelolnapkinmath. Most of the stuff I that wasn't exact was done in favor of the not-slow situation. I didn't even apply the accuracy for the normal attack round, which would have lower the damage gained by getting rid of slow even more, etc.

Edited, Aug 4th 2009 1:14am by Deadgye
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#40 Aug 04 2009 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I went through and un-napkined the math over here:

* First, replaced cRatio with average pDIF (this is relevant to the Heca case only because the cRatio is between 1.25 and 1.5; this makes the lower-end pDIF 1, and therefore the lower-end pDIF on crits is 2);

* Second, fixed the attack number in the non-Heca set (you left out the STR! :-D)

* Third, re-figured damage numbers:
- Normal hits: ~87/round
- SA in Heca: ~572 (520 x 1.1 from X's)
- SA in other set: ~484 (439 x 1.1)

* Fourth, figured how many rounds difference there is as a result of the Slow. (It's about 0.85 rounds, so that rounds to 1 for the purposes of this.)

Net result: they're even with each other, roughly. (Within about 2 damage.)
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#41 Aug 04 2009 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
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* Fourth, figured how many rounds difference there is as a result of the Slow. (It's about 0.85 rounds, so that rounds to 1 for the purposes of this.)


FIrst off, thanks for the fixes. :3 Second, I having difficulty seeing how 34% slow can cause a delay difference of a whole round. Extrapolate!
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#42 Aug 04 2009 at 3:48 AM Rating: Decent
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You're replacing haste with slow in alot of slots, and his calculations are with 2xmarch + haste spell. So from tp to heca you go from 50% haste to 35% haste with 30% slow

My numbers aren't exact, but you should get the point.

If we examine the converse, anytime we don't have 2xmarch and haste, then the heca would be better over all, since it would never be significantly worse. (except when zerging? soul voice march)

Edited, Aug 4th 2009 7:59am by Ineptvagrant
#43 Aug 04 2009 at 4:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You're replacing haste with slow in alot of slots, and his calculations are with 2xmarch + haste spell. So from tp to heca you go from 50% haste to 35% haste with 30% slow


The comparison isn't between the TP gear and the Slow Gear though, it's between the replacement gear and the heca gear. The difference is only 34% slow, there's 0% difference in haste.
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#44 Aug 04 2009 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
You're replacing haste with slow in alot of slots, and his calculations are with 2xmarch + haste spell. So from tp to heca you go from 50% haste to 35% haste with 30% slow


The comparison isn't between the TP gear and the Slow Gear though, it's between the replacement gear and the heca gear. The difference is only 34% slow, there's 0% difference in haste.
The thing is, for "total Haste/Slow", you take your entire total Haste, then subtract your entire total Slow. It's one quantity, not separate Haste and Slow quantities. (That said, it's not ~0.85 rounds; I don't quite remember how I got that specific number.)

Okay, here's how it works:

Heca round: 1.08 * 0.85 * 379 = 347.922 delay
Other-set round: 0.74 * 0.85 * 379 = 238.391 delay
Difference: 109.531 delay

Regular round: 0.59 * 0.80 * 379 = 178.888 delay

Difference in terms of regular rounds: 109.531/178.888 = 0.6122... rounds

EDIT: and no, I don't ever use double March in what I did. I went with the same Minuet/March pairing as Deadgye's attempt did.

Edited, Aug 4th 2009 6:52am by MDenham
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#45 Aug 04 2009 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
changing Heca Cap+1 to *** head +1, Heca Mittens+1 to Enkidu Mittens, Heca Subligar to Dragon Subligar+1, and Heca Leggings+1 to Dragon Leggings+1


@Deadgye: this is not what Shamaya meant with his OP. Shamaya is suggesting to balance gears. Use heca where you get the most bang for your buck. Example: use Hecatomb Subligar +1 instead of Dragon Subligar+1.
And use other options when heca does not offer as much. Example: ANNM Dragon Mitts > Enkidu's mitts > Heca +1 mitts.

You should do the math again but now with the gear options Shamaya gave. Except Skadi Feet.

Edited, Aug 4th 2009 5:08pm by Breaze
#46 Aug 04 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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FIrst off, thanks for the fixes. :3 Second, I having difficulty seeing how 34% slow can cause a delay difference of a whole round. Extrapolate!


Oh I can. As was said when you swap from your tp set to your solo sa set and go from the haste equip to the slow, the difference isn't just gaining the slow but losing the haste as well. In my tp set to swap into max stats I lose 8% dual wield and 17% haste, and I pick up 24% slow, whereas with heca subligar +1 it would be 38% slow. The combined effects are 41% slow + 8% dual wield with no subligar, and 58% slow + 8% dual wield with the sub.

Slow and haste are affecting the SAME thing, just in reverse directions. Just like gear that raises accuracy versus gear that lowers accuracy are counters, and how the +5 attack on skadi's trousers and the -5 attack on swift belt are counters, slow and haste are counters to one another as well. By taking off a % of haste you gain that much slow, and visa versa. And since these have exponentially accumulating properties such a large amount can be QUITE noticeable.

Also, I want to throw out that with triple attack one attack round in brutal/suppa is worth 2.48 swings on average, so even if you don't consider brutal here as a viable swap piece it's still worth noting that tidbit of bonus attacks.

Since the calculations deadgye threw out were corrected to be equal, and since deadgye is using x's knife in his scenario whereas without x's the difference will be even more favoring of haste, I stick with my stance that shamaya's OP is of the correct assumption. This is of course assuming a burn scenario. on gods of course maximizing crits is teh way to go. But that's assumed anyway, so I'll leave that as a closing note and be done with that.

Edited, Aug 4th 2009 11:23am by Melphina
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#47 Aug 05 2009 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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So Sword Belt > Forest Belt huh?

mmm and my sword belt +1 has a +1 dex mod :D


however, I don't understand the whole striders/trotters deal... even after reading the LJ


There a similar article for "With weaponskills"?

Edited, Aug 5th 2009 10:58am by PyroElf
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#48 Aug 05 2009 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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I cant fathom know how you guys play that somehow makes speed boots better for SATA, but speed boots (or dusk) should have ZERO effect on your SA. You guys do know that when slowed (movement speed like gravity slowed :P) that it only affects normal walking, and when engaged forward and back right? If you are "locked" on the target, you can run sideways or diagonally at normal speed. (great on quad NMs in dyanmis. Just run Diagonally towards them after knockback+heavy Grav, and once close enough, just sideways to circle them for SA/TA. Why you would wear trotters/skadi during SA/TA is beyond me. If you guys supporting tritter/skadi could explain why, be much appreciated.

Quote:
There a similar article for "With weaponskills"?


Haste/slow has ZERO effect on instant actions. WS, Jump etc take the same amount of delay as Boost, Zerk, or USING SA/TA (not hitting afterward). WS are completely unaffected by this discussion. SAWS just takes the delay of using 2 JAs and does nothing else. Using SA then smacking with a melee round in full heca gear is what slows you since you must hit with a normal attack round to use solo SA or TA. WS isnt a normal attack round.

WS follows the same rules they always have for damage with the proper balance of acc/atk/Dex/Str depending on mob/food/buffs you have.

Edited, Aug 5th 2009 12:42pm by Banalaty
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#49 Aug 05 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing is, for "total Haste/Slow", you take your entire total Haste, then subtract your entire total Slow. It's one quantity, not separate Haste and Slow quantities. (That said, it's not ~0.85 rounds; I don't quite remember how I got that specific number.)

Okay, here's how it works:

Heca round: 1.08 * 0.85 * 379 = 347.922 delay
Other-set round: 0.74 * 0.85 * 379 = 238.391 delay
Difference: 109.531 delay

Regular round: 0.59 * 0.80 * 379 = 178.888 delay

Difference in terms of regular rounds: 109.531/178.888 = 0.6122... rounds


Ah there's my problem, I was dividing by the delay of the nonslow equipment instead of the tp equipment for some reason. Smiley: lol Although, I remember reading somewhere that you took your attack round and multiplied it by the haste you had, and then multiplied it by the slow you had. I could be wrong as I can't seem to find it again, but meh.

Quote:
Since the calculations deadgye threw out were corrected to be equal, and since deadgye is using x's knife in his scenario whereas without x's the difference will be even more favoring of haste


The difference in attack rounds is actually exactly the same using Blau/Sirocco and etc, since the delay difference between the heca set and nonslow set decreases proportionally do the decrease in the regular round delay. Since blau/sirocco will turn out less damage per attack round than X's/blau, it's actually more in favor of the heca scenario with blau/sirocco.

I plan to redo the napkin math, and then turn it into full math using the top gear that shamaya said. But that'll have to wait for after my 20k ding, which will be after I get back from this 2~3 day camping trip I'm going on tomorrow. :p (I agree with most of Shamaya's findings, but I can't let myself listen to them without testing them myself to make sure. Smiley: grin)

Honestly if I knew how to make graphical interfaces for programs I could whip something up in a day or two that would do any and all of these comparisons between two pieces of gear pretty easily.. (Not counting skadi/trotter boots, lolmovementspeed.)

Edited, Aug 5th 2009 5:15pm by Deadgye
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#50 Aug 05 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Since the calculations deadgye threw out were corrected to be equal, and since deadgye is using x's knife in his scenario whereas without x's the difference will be even more favoring of haste



The difference in attack rounds is actually exactly the same using Blau/Sirocco and etc, since the delay difference between the heca set and nonslow set decreases proportionally do the decrease in the regular round delay. Since blau/sirocco will turn out less damage per attack round than X's/blau, it's actually more in favor of the heca scenario with blau/sirocco.


I think the "heca favors X's" is aimed at the bonus to crit damage on X's making SA/TA more powerful, not the damage lost from melee round damage >_>
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#51 Aug 05 2009 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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I think the "heca favors X's" is aimed at the bonus to crit damage on X's making SA/TA more powerful, not the damage lost from melee round damage >_>


This. I was referring to the bonus damage x's gives when you critical, not its attack speed.
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