Fane Baselard?Follow

The guy who got both the +6's I saw, got them in Grauberg fight against the Quadav with the Wivres. This happens to be the same area where I have not seen above +3 myself, however he tells me both times he got the +6, they did the fight with only 5 people.

Most likely only coincedental, but seeing as these are the only +6's I've personally seen, I'm willing to try a couple times with 5 to see if my luck changes. To those others that have gotten, or seen a +6 augment, do you know if it was done in full party or not?

fstr = (yourstr - mobvit + 4)/4

So to work backwards it would be 10*4 - 4 + 67 = 103, so if this is a rank 3 weapon it would be 107.

Gotta remember your PEMDAS!

We did this yesterday and I kept this dagger on the 3rd attempt.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Dawnn/Baselard.jpg

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 10:45am by Dawnn

Hiya Jurist, thanks ^_^

Now I'm wondering, how much Triple Attack is possible O.o?

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 12:01pm by Dawnn

We did this in Grauberg [S].

Hey all -

Just wanted to post my results, been a long time since I posted on Alla, but today (also my birthday) did the fight for the first time in Grauberg and got:

DMG+6
Triple Attack +1
Subtle Blow +7

I think I'll stick with this in Mainhand and offhand my Blau for a while. SK, into storage you go!

Best of luck to all you Thieves!

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 10:21pm by Leglacent

Hey, did my Fane BAselards today. Unfortunately I was a little jumpy and accepted the first augments I got on both (horror stories freaked me out <.<)

So I now have a
DMG+4 Triple +1
Add effect: Paralysis (13%)

and

DMG+5 Triple +2
Subtle blow +4

I'm gonna sell my Jambiya and main-hand the second, would offhanding the Paralysis one be good for soloing? :X 13% ain't too bad with 2x 186 delay daggers.

I kinda wanted to go for a mini-blau but I'm way to paranoid, and I had such terrible luck with Fay lance. I'm gonna try BLU though because this fight is so fun!

whoops

Edited, Aug 17th 2009 8:02pm by Noodles

So, if Azoth/Blau is better than Blau/Sirocco when uncapped acc (as proven by you). and Blau/Sirocco is equal X's/Blau, then Azoth/Blau is therefor equal X's/Blau.

So if that's the case, then why do so many people try countless times, or camp countless hours to get X's Knife or Sirocco Kukri when an AH combo is at least equal? Price?

Any top Thf in a top LS (who is more than just a TH4 whore) is going to be able to afford Azoth/Blau, but I dont think any would.

In fact, I don't htink I've seen an Azoth/Blau combo in a long time, if ever, but from what you say, it's at least equal to X's/Blau (By being equal/better to Blau/SK which is a sidegrade to X's/Blau.)

I bet if you went to BG or any top endgame player and spouted that Azoth/Blau is equal X's/Blau and Blau/Sirocco, you'd get flamed to sh*t. Yet, you yourself indirectly say that Azoth/Blau is the best non-relic combo after Fane/Blau.

Is everyone who ignored Azoth as nothing more than a DNC dagger wrong? Cus that's what you're posts seem to be showing.

My Azoth/Blau and Blau/Sirocco comparison was a disaster because I had to edit it too many times. That was the first time I tried a full comparison/breakdown on different daggers and I didn't include tp gain in the original calculation, nor fSTR or other factors that required consideration. Thanks to the input from others (the biggest ones were deadgye, milich and especially Torzak) I was corrected on misunderstandings in my damage calculations. I only began reading the wiki formulas in 2007 and thought I knew enough to try a comparison by then, but I ended up falling flat on my face with it. That was a little over a year ago now, in July of 2008. I'll link to the post but I'd request it not be necrobumped, being a year old and etc.

My old post is Here

From the beginning the math was criticized for inaccuracy, and Torzak really showed me a lot with his post towards the bottom of page 2. I've since taken into consideration the things I learned there, but nevertheless I don't consider that a good breakdown. Long story short, in that case it was me who learned a few things about dagger calculations and Azoth/blau was proven to be rather inferior to blau/sirocco due to the increased tp gain of the blau/sirocco. I never understood that the tp gain of the blau/sirocco was THAT much better than azth/blau, in fact I didn't understand tp calculations at all. Adding that I omitted fSTR and was using what Torzak referred to as "somepage like DPS numbers" the verdict was reversed.

Summarizing all that: Blau/sirocco is better than Azoth/blau, and it's by a good chunk of DoT. Blau/sirocco and x's/blau are very similar, so much so that they cannot be truly differentiated when you look at the factors. Azoth however didn't fare so well, and while it's potential is GOOD, blau/sirocco and x's/blau are better. Therefore, if Fane/blau is better than those two combos, it is most definitely better than the azoth/blau. Seriously think about it. Azoth is Damage 35 and delay 210 and accuracy + 4 agility +4, whereas Fane Baselard can be damage 33 with accuracy + 10 and delay of 186. In considering those differences, the Fane/blau is a HUGE increase over azoth blau if you get similar augments. There isn't any comparison at all of the 2 damage and 4 agility when you look at ~~ 6 accuracy and delay - 24 (in terms of daggers, 24 delay is a LOT).


EDIT: Banalaty beat me to the punch and summarized it perfectly. The lower you go below 180 delay the faster the rate of tp gain is enhanced (exponentially), and this is a concept I did not understand at the time. Blau/sirocco is a LOT faster than Azoth/Blau. Ridiculously so, and that means the tp gain will be vastly superior. With good haste the weaponskill frequency is so much higher. I made a lot of mistakes with that one, but thanks to others I was taught several important details of the math process, and an accurate verdict was derived. I still thank you guys for that. That was rather embarrassing, but I view it as a learning thing now. I'm actually glad that turned out as it did now, but it definitely wasn't my best moment.

Edited, Aug 17th 2009 11:53pm by Melphina

Ok, what about Batardeau/Blau?


Does the DPS (second only to Mandau) make up for the loss of TP gain or should you just leave it in your MH?

Edited, Aug 18th 2009 6:08am by Lobivopis

I think after all this experience, the best way to approach the game analyses is on paper, on parse, and theory. There are too many factors to be taken into account to make paper, parse, or general theory accurate and precise every time.

But I did parse Batardeau/Blau vs Blau/Sirocco. I got the feel that they were roughly the same, and they parsed about the same. I used both interchangeably at whim. Mighty Knife is about the same though. So if you're using Mighty Knife you can get a good feel/parse for how it would compare. When I've used Mighty Knife prior though, it didn't feel like anything significant. These two combos are pretty close, I'd have to agree.

Guess Its time for me to start spamming these too... le sigh

Edited, Sep 3rd 2009 11:25am by ThiefKiller

What? No DMG+6 Triple Attack +2 Attack +9?

Gimp.

/troll

IMO, dam +6, acc +5 or more and any TA, makes it a great replacement for SK. TP, should work out similar, and WSs will be more powerful, more accurate, and spike 1%+ more.

My problem with fane is i rarely use /nin when i dont use TK most (or all of the time) like the little farming i do, dynamis, limbus, usually Nyzul (except bosses (too much hassle to swap around and lose tp on the tons of nms you kill, people are always seeking weapons).

I would like to have more times on thf/nin where i could use DW setups, but for all the hard stuff I end up /drk or /war. And in those fights, the little acc and TA bonus possible (over what blau gives in acc) just doesn't outweigh 14 att to me in those situations.

But, I do still intend to start spamming, just to see what i get. Would be nice to have a reason to merit on THF for at least one party (COR is just always the better merit choice for me as i only vale exp/hour generally if i am boring myself with merits).

I got +4 dmg 6 Acc 7 subtle blow. Not bad considering that I have been main hand BK+1 for ages. (too many jobs to fully update thief)

Going to go back and try for a +5 or +6 with Acc

Ah XD. I love how that screenshot has a "THF can't do anything," wedged in there. Your link seems to have failed a bit. I don't see any fane pics.

Just got a 5dmg, 8 acc, light effect +13 (wish that was TA). This might be my new bird-dagger of choice. Instead of x's.


Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong there. A bonus 4% hit-rate on a relatively high-dps dagger in situations where acc isn't capped (birds, eating meat) is a worthwhile trade for x's, yes?

Edited, Oct 4th 2009 8:54am by Wolfhart

Ah, whoops. I misinterpreted the point of that screenshot XD. It was someone denying you a spot. I went through about 13 augments before getting a decent one, so keep at it.

Has a difference in augments been discovered by doing different fights? Everyone in game I've asked has only tried the grauberg fight.

YAY my 1st really good one!

D+5 (D32 main hand)
Acc+3
Triple+2

If only i had that D6 and some more acc.....but its still pretty dang good.

Now debating if I should have it replace sirocco. If the acc was a higher id feel more certain. What do you thf peoples think? D33, Acc3, TA+2 a sirocco killer?


When I ran the numbers on colibri I got ~10% more DoT and "more" TP. Not going into Xhit vs straight TP gained methodolgies here, but Blau/Sir in my gear is 5.0 a hit (20 hits), Fane/blau (no mirke yet) 5.3 a hit (19 hit build). 19 hit fane is a hair slower delay than 20 with sirocco, but im guessing the TA and acc counter that easy. My numbers showing about ~5% increase in TP gain. So it seems the 3acc and 2% triple can certainly at the minimum keep up with blau/sir and possibly pass it up by as much as ~5%ish. The -1D on SA/TA/WS is lame, but utterly miniscule and easily made up for by changing my offhand on WS and SA/TA from D26 to D33 blau. (Edit: Oh and the 2% triple on WS certainly is awesome too xD)

I think i just answered my own question xD

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 6:08pm by Banalaty

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 6:19pm by Banalaty
Borked my 1st over on it. Forgot to change some factors in my spreadsheet giving undue advantage to fane.

Edited, Oct 11th 2009 12:12am by Banalaty

Depends on how potent the wind damage is I'd say. So for example on colibri, go with that fane.

But buy another and try for a better one!

Also, this forum is so dead. I hope that cool dagger in the original update notes will be something very cool to get this forum buzzing again.

Oh i absolutely intend to keep trying for a better one, just deciding what to do with it right now.

I realized i borked my 1st quick analysis on it. I had been using that cell set to compare fane with DW mirke so it had +1 Fstr and the 3% delay atk speed, but I used the non-3% DW TP/hit. Completely jacked it up giving it a HUGE edge in every respect xD.

So now that im bored, i worked out the differences for me and my build a little more clearly.

/ramble on
Much more rational numbers now. Fane is basically just a tiny hair behind sirocco on DoT and TP gain (both under 5%) but with the acc and triple, it tilts the other way on both counts by a smidge. For my TP set on colibri, fane wins straight DoT by rather significant ~3.9%.

The TP is basically a dead heat in both %gain and Xhit. Fane has some 1.09% increase in TP rate in %gain once triple/acc are accounted for. As far as X hits, sirocco gets 20 hits 4.5% faster than fane does 19. However, that ignores the 3 acc and 2% triple. 2% triple (on top of brutal, merits and my assumed 1% corazza) will increase my total hits by 3.02%. 1.5% hitrate will make that total increase to TP over 4.5% (how much over depending on how far below acc cap you are). No matter how its measured, it is virtually identical with a possible edge on TP for blau/fane.

As WS frequency will be virtually identical, Fane wins the WS department. D-1 on WS at MOST can be (on a main hand triple on DE/evis landing all htis) -7 base damage. Changing offhand from D25 sirocco to D33 blau is a gain of +8. Even with DE's lolFTP, fane/blau will still have stronger WS every time. Blau/Sirocco can MATCH it IF you triple on main hand AND if the +1 base damage actually happens to get +1 base damage from the piddly FTP (unlikely). Every other time, WS damage goes to fane/blau. Then theres the 3acc and 2% triple which puts it way ahead on WS.

Leaving only SATA which again, +8 damage on the offhand (100% acc mind you) negates -1 damage even at a crit value in all situations.
______________________________________

So my fane matches or edges out sirocco in every conceivable way on paper. Can the wind damage make up for stronger WS/SATA and 3.9% melee DoT? (This is DW dot so wind damage only every other hit). My guess is its so close on neutral mobs that arent wind resistant that it wont possibly matter. On something like colibri which is very resistant, and has piercing bonus, your damage is inflated 25%, while wind damage is reduced so its REALLY unlikely that it would. Bleh another wash dagger overall. More reason to keep going for that magical D6, Acc9, TA+2 dream. At least i HAVE an option that doesnt gimp me :P

/ramble off

Knowing SE the dagger will need you to finish all forms of MMM and then collect a 5% drop item off of 10 different 16~36 hr lotto pop NM's then pay a npc crafting fee of 500k.


Stats will be DMG 30 Delay 194 Tripple attack +1 LOL +100

Edited, Oct 19th 2009 10:11pm by TaruMalphius

It's natural for this to happen to a forum over time. The problem is that most game mechanics are understood by the people who frequent these forums. Long gone are the days of proving there's a correlation between DEX and SA, how PDIF/fstr work, and WAR vs NIN as a subjob. The information is known--and it's not as if it's known via eyeballing, there are mathematical models available in the community to calculate them.

What happens is at first you answer the big questions such as what's the delay reduction for DW, how do you increase your SA numbers, etc. and we're to the point now that we talk about exactly what daggers are best to use at which merit camps, which pieces of equipment to stack with each SA, SA+WS, TA, etc. in each of these situations, etc.

In other words, we're to a point that there are very few situations that need to be discussed and thus there is less to talk about.