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#27 Jul 25 2009 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
Professor Jinte wrote:
How's this baselard?

for those not wanting to click the link:
augments are dmg+5 acc+10 Triple Attack+1


d32, delay 186, ACC+10, TA+1... i'm not going to do any math at the moment, but surely that's better than blau.
Blau's D33/delay 178.

It's a sidegrade at best, but that with an offhand Blau is probably a pretty good damage machine.

EDIT: just did the math on an assumption of fSTR of 5~6, which is probably slightly low. Before acc+/TA+ Blau is ~7% ahead. Accuracy, not being a massive issue, makes up ~2.7% (assuming enough accuracy that the +5 over Blau is enough to exactly put you at cap), and TA+1 is at most 1.8%, leaving Blau about 2.6% ahead (without even taking the attack+ on Blau into account; that's probably another 2-3% as well). This ties or beats Blau with a hit rate below ~46%, so it's not even a sidegrade to Blau.

Edited, Jul 25th 2009 6:12am by MDenham
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#28 Jul 25 2009 at 4:57 AM Rating: Good
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Professor Jinte wrote:
How's this baselard?

for those not wanting to click the link:
augments are dmg+5 acc+10 Triple Attack+1
Now we know that DMG, accuracy, and subtle blow aren't the only 3 augments to be randomized and that excites me. That is one nice dagger, despite my belief for a +6 DMG one to be possible as is seen on another weapon that got that.

Edited, Jul 25th 2009 7:59am by Jevilwolf
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#29 Jul 25 2009 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
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MDenham wrote:
milich wrote:
Professor Jinte wrote:
How's this baselard?

for those not wanting to click the link:
augments are dmg+5 acc+10 Triple Attack+1


d32, delay 186, ACC+10, TA+1... i'm not going to do any math at the moment, but surely that's better than blau.
Blau's D33/delay 178.

It's a sidegrade at best, but that with an offhand Blau is probably a pretty good damage machine.

EDIT: just did the math on an assumption of fSTR of 5~6, which is probably slightly low. Before acc+/TA+ Blau is ~7% ahead. Accuracy, not being a massive issue, makes up ~2.7% (assuming enough accuracy that the +5 over Blau is enough to exactly put you at cap), and TA+1 is at most 1.8%, leaving Blau about 2.6% ahead (without even taking the attack+ on Blau into account; that's probably another 2-3% as well). This ties or beats Blau with a hit rate below ~46%, so it's not even a sidegrade to Blau.

Edited, Jul 25th 2009 6:12am by MDenham


Blau is pretty much our Hagun, extremely hard to beat. However, as mentioned, that would be pretty good as a Main and Blau off. How it would compare to others such as Blau/S.kukri, X's/Blau etc requires more theorycrafting methinks.
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#30 Jul 25 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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It'd be great for /dnc. Although I wonder how X's vs that would be on /dnc.

Edited, Jul 25th 2009 3:38pm by Deadgye
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#31 Jul 25 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I think If i got a damage+5 acc +10 TA +1 combo on the dagger i would use it as an exp dagger over SK. Maybe even if instead of TA it had light or some other element damage added effect. FB/DB spamming kabobs at birds with that augment sounds sweet to me. I can always use 5% more hit rate, but i so rarely merit on THF :(

But as it seems to be uable to match blau (tho I would like to see some info on fstr caps in ws. If its modified damage is the base, the added fstr would give it equal WS damage to blau assuming you have the str in gear. (might make warwolf useful to me over cuch belt or something in the ws).

But the costs to get a weapon with max augments.... And its still no blau...
That limits it to a mainhand weapon when /nin and TH is of no concern. I dont find myself on thf in that situation often.
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#32 Jul 25 2009 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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MDenham wrote:
milich wrote:
Professor Jinte wrote:
How's this baselard?

for those not wanting to click the link:
augments are dmg+5 acc+10 Triple Attack+1


d32, delay 186, ACC+10, TA+1... i'm not going to do any math at the moment, but surely that's better than blau.
Blau's D33/delay 178.

It's a sidegrade at best, but that with an offhand Blau is probably a pretty good damage machine.



Blau is DMG33 Delay 178 ATT+16 ACC+5 actually.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#33 Jul 26 2009 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
MDenham wrote:
milich wrote:
Professor Jinte wrote:
How's this baselard?

for those not wanting to click the link:
augments are dmg+5 acc+10 Triple Attack+1


d32, delay 186, ACC+10, TA+1... i'm not going to do any math at the moment, but surely that's better than blau.
Blau's D33/delay 178.

It's a sidegrade at best, but that with an offhand Blau is probably a pretty good damage machine.



Blau is DMG33 Delay 178 ATT+16 ACC+5 actually.
Yeah, but even without the Atk/Acc+ part it's still ahead over that version of FB.

Hence why I left it out at the time.
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#34 Jul 26 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Since trying to beat Blau seems too difficult, what about trying to beat Sirocco Kukri?

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#35 Jul 26 2009 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah thats what im looking at too. Obviousy it would probably be a D32 weapon used in main hand and just have to eat -1 damage on WS and go Fay/Blau. But something tells me its just going to be yet ANOTHER side-grade combo as the speed giving greater TP gain from sirocco will likely be the great equalizer netting more WS as it does with every other combo weve compared. It would probably just end up as another "similar" option much like X's/blau is. Not really hands down better by any significant margin.

I would say Fay/Blau with 10 acc fay would be great for HNM....but /nin=fail on most HNM and id take my blau's acc/atk any day. I guess on stuff like Odin and other things where you have to /nin for AOE anyway, it could be a solid combo. Yay more situational junk that marginally better 5% of the time! /facepalm
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#36 Jul 26 2009 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Souji wrote:
MDenham wrote:
milich wrote:
Professor Jinte wrote:
How's this baselard?

for those not wanting to click the link:
augments are dmg+5 acc+10 Triple Attack+1


d32, delay 186, ACC+10, TA+1... i'm not going to do any math at the moment, but surely that's better than blau.
Blau's D33/delay 178.

It's a sidegrade at best, but that with an offhand Blau is probably a pretty good damage machine.

EDIT: just did the math on an assumption of fSTR of 5~6, which is probably slightly low. Before acc+/TA+ Blau is ~7% ahead. Accuracy, not being a massive issue, makes up ~2.7% (assuming enough accuracy that the +5 over Blau is enough to exactly put you at cap), and TA+1 is at most 1.8%, leaving Blau about 2.6% ahead (without even taking the attack+ on Blau into account; that's probably another 2-3% as well). This ties or beats Blau with a hit rate below ~46%, so it's not even a sidegrade to Blau.

Edited, Jul 25th 2009 6:12am by MDenham


Blau is pretty much our Hagun, extremely hard to beat. However, as mentioned, that would be pretty good as a Main and Blau off. How it would compare to others such as Blau/S.kukri, X's/Blau etc requires more theorycrafting methinks.


ah. yeah, 5ACC < 15ATT. mdenham, your math was odd... you think blau will win, so you assume lower base damage (favors blau) and higher ACC (also favors blau)? that's not convincing. but yeah, it looks like i was hasty.
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#37 Jul 26 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
mdenham, your math was odd... you think blau will win, so you assume lower base damage (favors blau) and higher ACC (also favors blau)? that's not convincing. but yeah, it looks like i was hasty.
Well, the highest fSTR you're going to get in that situation is 7 anyway. 5~6 doesn't appreciably change that part of the figure, and I was lowballing the percentage at that step anyway (at fSTR 7 it's ~7.174%; at fSTR 5 it's ~7.319%).

Knocking off the minimum increase from 3A +1, this leaves Blau 5.260~5.402% ahead with acc+ and atk+ to take into account. Leaving atk+ out for now (mostly because I'm not sure about what "average" attack for THF is; I suspect 300-330 without food, 370-400 with food), we then figure out how much base accuracy we'd need for the acc+10 on that FB to win (which is a situation that's pretty well geared to the best possible increase for it anyway, just like the assumption that there's no other 3A+ gear present).

In that case - which is specifically a "you're TPing past 100%" case - the FB comes out ahead as long as your base hit rate is below 90.2%. The rest of the time, your base hit rate with Blau would need to be below 47.53% instead. (Adjusted from the last post because I suspect I was doing odd rounding things as well.) And remember, we still haven't taken the atk+15 into account yet, which just makes it worse for that specific FB.

Apologies for making it look odd originally, though; the problem was more that I'd checked things, then didn't mention "oh, hey, now I'm going to drop that accuracy bit out to figure out where the crossover point is".
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#38 Jul 27 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
Not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but Fane Baselard with DMG+6 is possible.

[img=136229]

So, now you can Fane/Blau and not even suffer on WS damage.

Edited, Jul 28th 2009 12:57am by Jackiechannnn
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#39 Jul 28 2009 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Jackiechannnn wrote:
Not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but Fane Baselard with DMG+6 is possible.

Screenshot


So, now you can Fane/Blau and not even suffer on WS damage.

Edited, Jul 28th 2009 12:57am by Jackiechannnn
Now, if TA+2 or more is possible, a Fane that actually beats Blue might be doable.
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#40 Jul 28 2009 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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http://killingifrit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179271&st=60&p=3792333&#entry3792333
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Yesterday, went 1/10, and my final attempt on the 2nd dagger was...

Fane Baselard:
DMG+6
ACC+7
Subtle Blow+6
We're gettin there! Keep grindin those fairy battles out. も すこし

I have a feeling that a good enough fane/blau should beat blau/sirocco in a fair amount of situations.

Edited, Jul 28th 2009 3:17pm by Shamaya
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#41 Jul 28 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a feeling that a good enough fane/blau should beat blau/sirocco in a fair amount of situations.


This, but my only concern right now is what rank weapon is it considered. As long as it doesn't base it off dmg22, it'll actually have a higher fstr cap than blau.
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#42 Jul 28 2009 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I was gonna say probably 22, but actually idk. But does it really matter so much?

If you're cappin fStr for WS without using mercy stroke, you're probably not fighting something terribly tough. But either way, for WS, fane's base dmg will still be higher than Sirocco and it can also offer added stats. The only other common situation I can see fStr being capped in is when meleeing stuff that's quite a bit weaker (borderline too-weaks and below, probably?). On stuff like that, who really cares. But beyond that, Sirocco would probably be better for such stuff anyway, what with base dmg being less impt with all that added fStr, delay being thus more impt, and wind dmg probably proccing for more dmg.
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#43 Jul 28 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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What's a fair amount of situations? Merits?

It's at best a blau sidegrade when /not nin, and the only time i am /nin and not using tk is merits, and i guess some nms, but i am often to lazy to change weapons on those.

EDIT: I guess it will all come down to cost. We shall see as weapon prices drop.

Edited, Jul 28th 2009 7:41pm by LordTrey
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#44 Jul 28 2009 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
The guy who got +6 damage in the pic I posted, just did his 2nd dagger, and got ANOTHER damage+6, this time with accuracy+9 additional effect flash+7...

I havent gotten passed damage +3 on my own. Some people have all the luck.
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#45 Jul 28 2009 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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That's pretty sick.

What's a fair amount of situations? Man, the number of times I've used 2 Damage daggers instead of GoodDagger/TK:
Merits
Farming/Playing in Sky
Farming/Playing in Sea
ZNM
Salvage
Nyzul
Limbus
@#%^ it... I'm not going to list everything. Because I've pretty much done just about every type of thing there is to do endgame /nin, and I don't bother putting TK on till the end of the fight, and if there's another person to TH it I'll sneakily take my TK off, and if it's something where things drop but killspeed matters more than arbitrary drops (ie low man limbus), I'll take it off.

Of course I use /non-nin whenever it's best. But...a fair amount of situations is a fair amount.. If I were still blau/sirocco I would continue to use that combo for something like, say, Nyzul, where accuracy isn't really needed. But there are plenty of situations where you're dd'ing it up outside of merits and you're not easily capped on acc. There's a lot of stuff to do in the game.

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Edited, Jul 29th 2009 6:47am by Shamaya
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#46 Jul 29 2009 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Shamaya wrote:
If you're cappin fStr for WS without using mercy stroke, you're probably not fighting something terribly tough.
For Blau, it takes STR 95 at birds, which shouldn't be horribly out of reach.

It's still probably slightly more than you'd normally want to melee in, but it's not "ZOMG MUST STACK A ******* OF STR".
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#47 Jul 29 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Jackiechannnn wrote:
The guy who got +6 damage in the pic I posted, just did his 2nd dagger, and got ANOTHER damage+6, this time with accuracy+9 additional effect flash+7...

I havent gotten passed damage +3 on my own. Some people have all the luck.
Do you know which area he did this fight in? (If it makes any difference at all) :x
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#48 Jul 29 2009 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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For Blau, it takes STR 95 at birds, which shouldn't be horribly out of reach.


95 str at birds is only +8 fstr. Blau and sirocco cap at +10 or 103 str. Either way still WAY to much for any respectable TP set, but very possible if you have a a buncha heca/Rajas/Warwolf gear on WS. I currently have exactly 3 or 4 Fstr on tp depending on if kabob is up or not. (My TP set has 64+5+3+5=77 for tp. Rajas+forgers+kabob on a mithra with 2 str merits :P) On Solo DE i have 104 str so i cap it. Stacked I drop HH for DH+1 so i wont cap til i land Nhead on stacked.

Conveniently, i will EXACTLY cap when i get skadi body(instead of HH) and Nhead on any WS i perform in merits. Also, when i get my last 3 str merits and a cuchulain mantle, i will maintain exactly 103 str on all WS in my ideal gear. Pretty sweet :P
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#49 Jul 29 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think theres much point in compariing the dagger to Blau, as Blau can perform amazingly mainhand or offhand.

With DMG+33 (DMG+6 aug) ACC+10 Fane Baselard and Blau Offhand, i'd bet my Bronze Harness+1 that it would out perform Blau/SK. 5% Hitrate is just amazing in a slot that won't usually allow for it.

X's I would'nt know where it would stand, but im sure the extra crit % will be out shone by lower delay and 5% ACC.

Theres some potentially nice possibilities neway. Getting DMG+6 ACC+10 TA+1-2 would be the ultimate imo.
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#50 Jul 29 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, that would be insanely ****. Soon as i finish my project and graduate (im just taking a small break right now....I swear!) and get back to playing, im looking forward to a greatly upgraded set (soon as i get this stuff)

*Salade 10acc/5atk/3%haste replace turban
*Fane: ideally D33 acc+10, TA+X% replace sirocco
*ACP body acc/DW (did the fight with some pickups before my break and was all fail ><) replace homam.

That would put me at 93/88.5% acc on the lv 81/82s....OMG over 90% on lolThf!!! Ill outparse my own drg some day! (probably not, but i now mostly compare my own thf to my own drg these days :P) Anyway, i have been rather sad the last year-ish because my TP set has remained virtually unchanged for thf since I got homam body while Drg has been getting lots of fun toys upping its potential and still has more to go. (1 exception being skadi legs <3) so i am VERY much looking forward to some significant upgrades in many slots on Thf(even though my homam looks>>>>>>>>>Mirke will make me ; ;).

On that note...back to evil, evil research so i can DO these things at some point xD. August graduation is approaching WAY to fast ><

**Edit Forgot one: If i were to be so blessed as to get the confirmed +5acc on my foragers mantle random Aug....OMG! ***** you Cuchulain!

Edited, Jul 29th 2009 4:01pm by Banalaty
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#51 Jul 29 2009 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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*ACP body acc/DW (did the fight with some pickups before my break and was all fail ><) replace homam.


If you can't find the Ranged att jobs, RDM BRD MNK MNK MNK MNK works a beauty.

All MNK's /WAR, start with an ic wing, use all JA's except 100fist before hitting mob, then 100FIST just as you hit mob.

Make sure all MNK's 100FIST in WS gear and take Boost out of their Asuran macro's and the fight is just pwnage.

I did it 2days ago and the actual fight took 39secs. C.Subs, Zerk, Double Attack, SV Minuets put out att's around ~750. It was serious pwnage.

Quote:
*Salade 10acc/5atk/3%haste replace turban


I'd definately put some serious thought into that. If you don't have N.Head, or won't be getting it then the WS piece could be the better option (Melphina's math taking into account). If you end up getting the Fane Baselard with ACC+8-10 too aswell then srious thought is needed.



Edited, Jul 29th 2009 7:55pm by Sandmasterr
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