I read your thread Treelo but before I comment on it I will first note that I will agree with you that math and a calculator are not always the best way to do things and that firsthand experience is a better way to see what works for oneself. It is however a good start to get an idea of what you can expect. I've also analyzed parses and seen the difference myself, and I still stand by my original statement on blau/sirocco being superior to x's/blau in a tp burn scenario. I've read both of your posts in their entirety, so while it's a tad long I'd request that you do so of this one also before commenting.
Now, Evisceration is a good weaponskill with x's, and with x's it makes sense to use it. When I made my OP I did not yet own an x's knife, but since then I acquired one of my own to play around with. That happened in the middle of April, and I've spent the past 4 months experimenting with both dagger combos. I took the data to heart about evisceration being superior when one has an x's knife and I've gone out and used the crap out of it. I've had time to merit on mamools and colibris both and my weaponskill set is about the same as yours, I only lack my hecatomb subligar +1 which is just a matter of Odin and time. I currently have 83 dex with merits and my weaponskill set adds 49 more so I'm working with a total of 132 dex. That's enough to hit the cap on the silly birds and then some. I've seen similar results to yours on damage output and whenever I wear x's my evisceration sessions average to similar results in damage increases over dancing edge.
Now before I go on any further I want to note that I don't use direct parse, I use Kparser. I know kinematics in game, in fact he's still on my friend list from the time I spent on Unicorn and I keep in touch. The thief tab on kparser was added by my own request and is an invaluable asset to seeing how soloing sneak and trick attack affects your damage. I've analyzed not only my evisceration and dancing edge performance with x's, I've also analyzed my solo critical damage as well as the other factors that come from using a parser such as average hit, accuracy % and the like. Kparser gives much more data than directparse and if you analyze it all you see a bigger picture. Now, with that said I'm going to respectfully disagree with you that IN A TP BURN
scenario the x's/blau using evisceration is superior to blau/sirocco using dancing edge. The reason is the same one that has been rehashed in this thread which you have failed to acknowledge, the speed of the blau/kukri and increased weaponskill frequency.
When I merit with my x's/blau combo the difference in speed from the blau/kukri combo is easy to see, and it's even more prominent when I add bard haste alongside magic. If I use x's/blau I'm going to use evisceration as my weaponskill, but when I use blau/sirocco I'm going to be using dancing edge. The number of attack rounds with the kukri is just THAT much higher, and my weaponskill count with blau/sirocco is approximately 15-20% higher than that of my x's/blau setup (the higher end with double march of course). While evisceration averages to a bit more in weaponskill damage, with x's I get a LOT fewer of them. My blau/kukri dancing edge set is strong enough to rival that of my x's/blau evisceration set that the frequency of dancing edges overtakes the average damage of evisceration. I don't get those OMGWTF e-peen shots to go as high, but I don't care about them anyway (and let's be honest, on merit mobs not many do anymore. That trend ended when most people finished meriting and got fed up with it a year ago or so). When I use kparser I can see the percentages of my damage that come from weaponskill solos, solo criticals (as I dub them my "Spike DoT") and my stacked weaponskill damage. I can also see what the wind damage of sirocco kukri does when I leave the birds behind and it starts to proc.
Now guess what? This may be a shock to you, but when I use blau/sirocco and analyze the data alongside similar x's/blau parses the blau/sirocco puts out equivalent and slightly superior numbers over the course of the parse. It merely alters WHERE the damage comes from. While with x's/blau I have a higher damage ratio in weaponskills and criticals and solo crits (surprise), when I use blau/sirocco my DoT goes up by an amount strong enough to more than make up for it and overtake the difference. We are talking TP BURN
here, and that means haste, and lots of it!! In the case of a strong dancing edge thief with blau/kukri it's enough to close the gap and overtake the evisceration x's/blau.
Treelo you are obviously a competent player who knows what he's doing. I can tell you love the job as much as I do and that you've poured your heart and soul into the job, and for that I respect you. I will honor anyone who puts a strong effort into the job I know and love. You are every way equal in dedication to bettering your thief as I am to mine, and I /salute a fellow thief for that. However, you have failed to acknowledge the difference between the two dagger setup as I have done in MY
op. In your post you have explained that when you use x's knife evisceration makes you strong. DUH! That's a no brainer. What you have NOT done is post any data on the reverse side of the equation of your experiences using the blau/kukri combo and dancing edge. Also, though it's not a HUGE change while evisceration has a modifier to criticals dancing edge has a bonus to accuracy, which even if it's a small amount like 5 accuracy it will benefit the combo.
Also, while I DO
respect you for your dedication to the thief job, I DON'T
respect you for your attitude. What your x's knife thread comes off to me as is nothing more than a glorification of the e-peen that you so very much love. Quoting your own post
Admittedly a lot less reliable than DE as you can see from the lowest WS, a result of missed hits and not many crits. The overall average is higher though, which is essentially what you are aiming for, then add the much vaunted e-peen shots you'll be looking for. An Evisceration that triple attacks and crits with every hit is a beautiful sight to behold.
You play for e-peen and you're full of yourself. You're so arrogant that you've become blinded to the fact that in a TP BURN
scenario that x's knife of yours is SLOW
. I'm sorry but it just is. The amount of haste available to us in a DoT oriented TP burn setup combined with magic haste and then march is an equally beautiful thing in my eyes as the e-peen is to yours. And I value the wind damage of the sirocco, it really adds up over time and tips the scales. If you went out and looked at an UNBIASED comparison between an evisceration x's/blau setup versus a dancing edge blau/kukri setup and compared the two I think you would see the difference is not quite the way you think. Also this comment holds merit
Is there a reason all your parses are with gimps?
As you yourself said
So since my arrival on the shores of Asura I've been able to get some serious meriting done; mostly just to show off, partly because my other jobs need the merits. Where are you guys hiding all the e.body/ridll wars eh?
Amidst all that bragging of yours you parsed against a war/nin with double march AND madrigal + minuet (dual wielding) and outdid him by 19% after the piercing bonus is ignored, and the sam/rng didn't do anything. Then you parsed against a great axe
and another sam/rng. Again, your parses are just throwing out e-peen and glorifying yourself. Treelo, you've fallen victim to "Big Stupid Number syndrome" and that doesn't bode well on your argument one bit. I understand you're passionate about the thief job but so am I. And if you took a looksie at all of the names on pages 1-3, I think you'd find that a majority of them are equally passionate about the job as well. Edited, Aug 22nd 2009 9:04pm by Melphina