This is why i personally prefer to work in % increases than Xdamage/hour increases. The results are more or less the same but doesnt give the wiggle room for people to attack the numbers because its "unrealistic" for a party to function that way. Or otherwise try to poke holes in it because they arent "real" numbers you would expect to see. (although the results are the same as working with %)
So in another light (and i realize this is treading on dedhorse teritory and is a slightly simplified version in some ways. But primarily aimed at people that attack the Xdamage per hour needlessly)
Blau/Sirocco is 4.7TP for 131.2 delay (9.4 for 262.4)
X's/Blau is 4.9tp for 151.6 delay(9.8 for 303.2)
X/B=1.94tp/sec Blau/Sirocco gains TP 11% faster
than X's/Blau. If you WS exactly at 100tp, 110tp, 200tp, or 270tp it doesnt matter. You will get to that TP value on average 11% faster. So regardless of your personal playstyle, you will still get to WS 11% more often.
There is no question of "well wasted TP isnt accounted for" etc because the combo itself gains TP ~11% faster. Therefore over ANY stretch of time, you will ultimately gain 11% more TP for you to use however you want. So long as you use the same playstyle regarding TP with either combo Sirocco will WS 11% more over time. Unless you intentionally hold TP with Sirocco and let loose with X's which would be an unfair comparison anyway.
can be done the same way.(no Fstr included)
B/S is d33+d26 with 262.4 delay puts the combo at 13.5dps
X/B is 35+33 with 303.2 delay puts the combo at 13.28
Puts sirocco at a somewhat minor ~1.6% increase in actual DoT.
However once you toss in any +Fstr, ANY wind damage (even the 0-3 on colibri) etc will widen this gap very quickly.
(giving a VERY generous 20% rate and a genrous 1.0 pdif for X's)
would make X's crits be 2.2x normal melee, while B/S is onle 2.0.
Crits in general (with 20% rate) would raise up the DPS from the current numbers with an extra 22% and 20% respectively.
0% increase over the other
For comparison sake, heres the same calc with a 1.5 pdif and 12% crit rate (more realistic. Standard brd party). X Crits would be 1.83x normal damage and B/S 1.66x normal melee damage. Crits averaged over a 12% proc with the lower increases gives you only 7.9% for B/S total DPS bonus, X's/B gets 9.9% bonus.
Now a 1.36% lead for X's.
So after crits are accounted for for TPing, the DPS is very close, but this is still without any say from Fstr or wind damage.
I would be completely shocked if Fstr and wind damage cant up your DPS by 1.3% in siroccos favor. Consider that a blau/sir (D33+26) at 1.5 Pdif and piercing bonus is about 110 damage cmobined. If sirocco needs only proc for an avg of 1.4 damage to make up the DPS difference for X's. Add Fstr, lower Pdif, less resistant mobs, non piercing mobs X's will fall behind very quickly.
_______________ WS damage (per WS)
X's needs to make up 11% more WS damage from blau sirocco. All its got is higher base damage on WS and SA/TA crit bonus to work with.
Using Melph's WS numbers
33 + 44 + 5 == 82 base damage for 5 main hits, and 26 + 44 + 5 == 75 damage for the offhand hit of blau/sirocco. Thus (82 x 5) + 75 == 485 base damage. Realistically every dancing edge should average much closer to 500 base damage when you consider multi procs, but for this discussion I'll give a low number to further prove the discussion at hand. This accounts for anyone with a weaker weaponskill set, because it should never go much lower than 450 base damage (accuracy is unimportant here due to associativity of what is being compared).
Xs/B will get +12 base damage over B/S.
X/B=462 2.6% increase for Xs on WS damage
assuming a very poor WS set which is in X's favor. But a far cry from countering the 11% increased WS rate for Blau/Sirocco.
Xs gets +1 base damage and 10% bonus over blau. For my SA/TA sets (mithra with 80+47 dex, 76+38*1.15 from AF) with blau base damage and capped Fstr gives me 170 base D for SA. X's would get +1 for weapon D and +1 for higher Fstr cap.
TA for me is 164 and a variable amount of Fstr as the heca is missing. Basically almost identical to my 170 for SA, but X;s wont hit capped Fstr. So using 170 vs 171.
SA=170 vs 172+10%=189=11% increase.
TA=170 vs 171+10%=188=10.5% increase. About as expected SA/TA get a smidge over 10% bonus
due to base damage and potentially making use of higher Fstr cap.
DoT: is virutally equal (in scenario favoring X's by ignoring Fstr and Wind damage)
SA/TA: gains ~10.5-11% bonus for X's
WS damage: X's 2.6%
TP gain: ~11% in Sirocco's favor.
Apply these to your personal SATA/DOT/WS damage % split. A fairly general split is 40% WS, 20% SATA, 40% DoT.
DOT: X's is AT BEST equal in DoT to B/S in a scenario favoring X's. but once wind damage, Fstr are tallied, It would get the edge easily there.
WS:Blau/Sirocco stomps all over it with 11% higher TP gain rate and looms over the 2.6% more WS damage on individual WS(again favoring X's).
SATA: the saving grace of X's. a solid 10-11% bonus here. But it makes up the smallest section of our total damage and thus is overshadowed by the WS gain by itself, and likely moreso once DOT is considered more realistically favoring Sirocco. And final nail in the coffin is the ability to miss SA/TA in a merit party despite our best efforts. We WILL miss SA/TA on occasion which shoots down X's biggest gain.
Oh and of course Haste helps to kill X's more. It increases DoT and TP gain exponentially while SA/TA are stuck on their timers. Haste favors siroccos strong points and leans damage away from static timed bonuses like SATA/Jumps/Meditate etc. Unless you TP in a Dex build (more crits), terrible Pdif(making crits more powerful), zero haste (favoring SA/TA damage over DPS+WS)and only WS with SATASB once a minute (nulifying TP gain bonus and increasing X's bonus to include WS) Then X's can handily win. But, then your doing it VERY wrong. However, aside from the dex gear, that sounds more like an HNM strat. And has already been said, X's excels at tough mobs.
______________________________________ The end
The trouble is no matter how you spin it, only in the MOST IDEAL circumstances favoring X's (which include sucking with terrible WS gear, low haste TP builds, Not splitting SA/TA/WS, sitting on TP etc) X's can MATCH sirocco.
No one is saying X's is a bad dagger, but the speed of blau/sirocco wins again. It rivals the DPS of any combo we know of and once Fstr and wind damage are in it stomps all over any competing combo DPS. The TP gain is just off the charts and has been the deciding factor in EVERY Blau/Sirocco VS XX/XX combo we have ever run across.
Sure you can argue about how you personally disengage after every mob, Stack SASB and use Evisceration with X's, but your still doingitwrong. Disengaging constantly slows down exp. Using worse WS and stacking unnecisarily still gimps you and your party. Gimping down a playstyle to cater to X's is still worse than maxing damage on Blau/sirocco. Over time, Blau/Sirocco is the highest DoT combo sans relic we have. Period. (once accounting for Wind and Fstr). It gains TP faster than ANY respectable combo. Add those together and Daggers like Pharpe/X's/Azoth just lose out on every front. Better DoT and VERY high TP gain just kills everything.
There is no arguing that. Arguing that we "waste" tp doesnt matter because if you waste tp you waste it on X's/Azoth/Pharpe too. But you still gain it faster with Sirocco. If you avg WS at 110 TP instead of 100 fine. In the time it takes you to gain 1100 TP for 10 WS, Sirocco just did it 11% faster. You wanna save 200TP? OK sirocco will STILL get to 200 faster than anything. TP gain scales no matter how wasteful and inefficient you are. Ignoring the TP gain only says that you hold TP using sirocco and dont hold it using other combos which is retarded. Edited, Feb 16th 2009 5:44pm by Banalaty