Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Sneak Attack / Trick Attack + Weapon Skill GuideFollow

#27 May 11 2004 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Looks like I was misunderstood : my question was only about trick attack because I do know that SATA won't work this way as well as this one :
mob>
^
TANK
^
THF
which was said to work before some updates ...
Then my question is still here : does the situation I described above work for Trick attack only ?
#28 May 11 2004 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,158 posts
Quote:
Looks like I was misunderstood : my question was only about trick attack because I do know that SATA won't work this way as well as this one :
mob>
^
TANK
^
THF
which was said to work before some updates ...
Then my question is still here : does the situation I described above work for Trick attack only ?


yes it is working :-)

trick attack doesnt depend on the facing mob but u must be behind your TRICK partner so u can trick him almost always

problem is in parties when fighting IT VT mobs it will do not do a reasonable amout of DMG and TRICK attack when solo without SNEAK attack can miss

SNEAK ATTACK never miss TRICK ATTACK can miss -> in combo they will never miss

...

i used a lot TRICK > TANK >< MOB when i was RSE hunting or helping people to find ruby for example so i use usually TRICK > WHM > MOB and it will do nice dmg when fighting easy worthwile mobs it will do nice dmg and the mob will facing the MAGE TANK :) but dont worry he can stand a few shots and i can SNEAK ATTACK the mob back to face me :-) this combo i was using primarly when hunting RSE keys :-)
____________________________
Profile: Tsp | Server: Shiva
JOBS: THF:75 RNG:64 BLM:62 NIN:44 WAR:43 WHM:36 SAM:37 DRK:37 MNK:25 BST:22 BRD:3
merits (85+10): +5% tripple | +4% critical | +8 dagger | +1 Mship | +2 DEX | +3 STR | +3 eva | + 2 MP | TA recast +2
#29 May 11 2004 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
**
793 posts
/clap
New account (third, all main)
____________________________
I'm bored.
Are you bored?
Let's be bored together!
*dances with you happily*
^^
#30 May 11 2004 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Sneak Attack can miss although it happens about 1/100 times.... really annoying when it does tho.
____________________________
Aareba:
46THF/26SAM/12WAR/10MNK/10BST/10RNG
#31 May 11 2004 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
It's Just a Flesh Wound
******
22,699 posts
Sneak attack can only miss when you are not behind it. Trick attack can miss if you are not behind someone or it can just randomly miss.

Quote:
yes it is working :-)


sry but it is not. He was talking about fuidama in that position. Sneak attack must be from behind. So the tank must also be behind and you behind him.
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#32 May 12 2004 at 4:43 AM Rating: Decent
*
115 posts
I think the only time I made use of trick alone, and it didn't miss, was when I did it with Viper Bite. Mob was facing NIN, fight got messed up and had to help the NIN keep hate.
#33 May 12 2004 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
**
375 posts
If you are stacking SANTA and you and the tank are positioned properly and not moving, the trick part of the SANTA will never miss. I've heard some random posts claiming that tricks missed, but I've used it for 20 levels now, and under normal party conditions, once we had our rhythm (aka everyone got into position, and i informed our tank that he just needed to be close to directly behind, and needed to hold still) my SANTA has always been on relatively the same scale and always given hate as it should.
____________________________
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?4154
50thf/nin hume
#34 May 12 2004 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
Quote:
The Honorable ZelerianIA: Awesome guid...Rate up for you :)

But, whats the difference between <t> or <bt>?

thx in advance

even though this was a long time ago in a posting far far away (from the bottom), i figured i'd clear this handy tool up.

<t> is the scripting variable for your current target
<bt> is the scripting variable for your GROUP's target

rules for using <bt>:
  • atleast 1 member of your group must have this target engaged(that means weapon out ready to fight it or currently casting on it...seems not to work if the puller is running back and no one else has engaged)
  • if you're the main tank...don't use <bt>...if you are, that means someone is engaging the monster before you. use /assist puller's name. This pretty much allows everyone else to use <bt>

  • as a puller...i dont' get the benefit of <bt> too much. every once and a while, we'll get aggroed and <bt> becomes quite useful. The following is the typical macro utilizing <bt>:

    /attack <bt>
    /echo >>>>>Assisting with the <bt><<<<<

    for mages, its usually:

    /target <bt>
    /lockon
    /echo >>>>>Assisting with the <bt><<<<<

    hope this helps.
    #35 May 13 2004 at 1:04 AM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    31 posts
    Just thought I'd add my two cents here;
    Macro I use:

    /p ()Sneak Attack()+()Trick Attack()+()Viper Bite() in 3!
    /ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
    /wait 1
    /ja "Trick Attack" <me>
    /wait 2
    /ws "Viper Bite" <t>

    This allows for *much* easier timing with Skillchains. Most people use /wait 1, which works fine, but Viper Bite doesn't actually go until about 2 seconds have passed (SA and TA need to activate, along with their animation) extending the second wait to 2 works quite well for me. Otherwise I need to count out one second when the WS before me goes, and I can ***** that up.

    Note: Using this macro will *sometimes* make your weapon hit before the WS is used. This seems to happen if you're about to hit when you start the macro. Simply because the SA and TA animations take just over two seconds. During the time between then and three seconds passing for the WS to activate, a normal attack may happen, getting rid of SATA, and then moments later you waste your TP. Only if your weapon's delay is under 2-3 seconds. For example:

    You hit the mob for 32 points of damage.
    (Wait about 1.5-2 seconds, then hit the macro)
    /p ()Sneak Attack()+()Trick Attack()+()Viper Bite() in 3!
    /ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
    /wait 1
    /ja "Trick Attack" <me>
    /wait 2
    Right here, your weapons delay will be over, and a normal attack will hit.
    You deal a critical hit for 287 points of damage!
    /ws "Viper Bite" <t>
    The WS is then wasted, due to the lack of SA or TA.

    The solution is to hit the macro *right* as you strike with a normal attack. As the delay counter seems frozen while SA/TA are activating. Then the three seconds will pass normally, and you will complete Fuidama, dealing a large amount of damage, and hopefully continuing an SC (For even more damage) ^^

    Hope this helps someone :)
    ____________________________
    Selendra - Mithra - Midgardsormr

    Website of doom: http://home.comcast.net/~moogleman/
    #36 May 13 2004 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    43 posts
    Um? Help?

    Okay I have gotten finally the idolized skill "viper bite" I hadnt been keeping up with my dagger at all and instead had been using swords. Well today i get viper bite and with much anticipation switch to my federation kukri and use it with sneak attack.

    Here is my problem, I only did about 260 dmg on average, this is just with SA and not TA, because i usually only party with two other ppl and one is a whm so no one to SATA off of. On the other hand with my Swords, Dual weilding Mithran Scimitars, I do 290 - 320, and this is an exp level lower and on the same mobs. What am I doing wrong? I thought that this weapon skill was supposed to be better? This is with skill points maxed out in both weapons, i think 93 for sword and 105 for dagger.

    Im level 34 now and I dont think I wanna give up my scimitars. Viper bite just isnt comparing in dmg. I tested this in rolanberry killing weak mobs also(death wasps) and damage with SA+Viper was about 350 while SA+Fast Blade was about 500. So far ive been making it a point to equip the best gear money can buy, ive farmed for hours on end to get the emp hairpin, lizzie boots, balance rings, mithran scimitars, nomads mantle +1 etc. So far Im convinced that Fast Blade is still better, If someone knows if i am possibly doing something wrong plz let me know, thanks ^^;
    ____________________________
    Thf/nin 75
    Drk/war 75
    Goldsmith 52
    Blacksmith 90+2
    Alchemy 60
    Leather 60
    CoP 8-2
    ZM 15
    Bastok 10
    #37 May 13 2004 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
    15 posts
    Great Post! Finally, a definitive guide for all the No.Obs. ^.^
    ____________________________
    FFXI - Fairy Server
    Aeriko - Mithra♀ - 75THF 70NIN 60WAR
    Nooblet - Tarutaru♂ - 45BLM 30WHM 30SMN

    WoW - Hyjal Server
    Aeriko - Gnome♀ - 52 Rogue
    Underfrost - Draenei♂ - 49 Shaman
    #38 May 13 2004 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
    **
    329 posts
    OMG THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    #39 May 14 2004 at 3:10 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    31 posts
    Milandra wrote:
    Um? Help?

    Okay I have gotten finally the idolized skill "viper bite" I hadnt been keeping up with my dagger at all and instead had been using swords. Well today i get viper bite and with much anticipation switch to my federation kukri and use it with sneak attack.

    Here is my problem, I only did about 260 dmg on average, this is just with SA and not TA, because i usually only party with two other ppl and one is a whm so no one to SATA off of. On the other hand with my Swords, Dual weilding Mithran Scimitars, I do 290 - 320, and this is an exp level lower and on the same mobs. What am I doing wrong? I thought that this weapon skill was supposed to be better? This is with skill points maxed out in both weapons, i think 93 for sword and 105 for dagger.

    Im level 34 now and I dont think I wanna give up my scimitars. Viper bite just isnt comparing in dmg. I tested this in rolanberry killing weak mobs also(death wasps) and damage with SA+Viper was about 350 while SA+Fast Blade was about 500. So far ive been making it a point to equip the best gear money can buy, ive farmed for hours on end to get the emp hairpin, lizzie boots, balance rings, mithran scimitars, nomads mantle +1 etc. So far Im convinced that Fast Blade is still better, If someone knows if i am possibly doing something wrong plz let me know, thanks ^^;


    Hmmm. Firstly, I'd say use a Federation Knife over the Kukiri, but that's not the point. You say you're dual weilding Mithran Scimitars, but you didn't say anything about dual weilding Federation Kukiris. If you only have one, I think that would explain the decreased damage.

    Anyhow, I'd still use the dagger. I'm a 37THF/WAR, and my Federation Knife is awesome. I stopped leveling Sword a few levels ago, so I can't say whether Fast Blade would be better, but I think there's a reason people switch to Dagger at 33 :p

    The other thing to consider, is you'll gain TP faster with Daggers, due to lower delay time. This means more Viper Bites you can pull off.

    Hope that helps ^^
    ____________________________
    Selendra - Mithra - Midgardsormr

    Website of doom: http://home.comcast.net/~moogleman/
    #40 May 15 2004 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    *
    218 posts
    You also will have more ACC with dagger so even more reason to use the dagger. :P
    ____________________________
    ~ Torii ~
    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?21267

    RETIRED FFXI PLAYER - Goodbye ^^;
    #41 May 16 2004 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
    **
    354 posts
    Lol, you already answered your own question: Viper Bite only truly shines when stacked with BOTH Sneak and Trick. Yes, SA+VB hits for less than SA+(Random Stackable Sword Weaponskill), at least throughout the level 30s. I imagine it doesn't change until your sword skillcap is significantly lower than your dagger cap.

    If you're soloing or otherwise not in a position to stack Trick with Sneak + WS, use H2H or sword with Sneak Attack instead. Unless you're suitably higher level that you own with a dagger. ^^

    ~~~

    BTW, actually wanted to add some useful information: I'm the impatient type, and I always used to spam my SATA macro to see how much was left on the timer. ^^ In a recent update, however, the new command /recast was added, which works with Job Abilities as well as spells and whatnot. Used in the format /recast "Job Ability" it will /echo to you how much time remains before that ability can be used again. I now have a SATA timer reminder for myself that goes like this:

    /recast "Sneak Attack"
    /recast "Trick Attack"

    ...which returns:

    [Sneak Attack] : 0:00
    [Trick Attack] : 0:00

    ...or however much time is left. Much better than spamming my actual SATA fire macro to see how much time is left and ******** up the /waits. ^^ HTH someone.
    ____________________________
    Villainelle
    UI modder and rogue-type stabby-stabby chick in various MMOs...
    FFXI, WoW, LotRO, etc.
    #42 May 16 2004 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    43 posts
    Thanks for the response guys. Ive been trying it with dual Fed. Kukri, Mithran Scimitars, and one of each. So far even with trick attack, fast blade with the scimitars is still more effective. Perhaps in a few levels when dagger skill is much higher than sword skill this will be different. I am gonna keep them both up but for now the delay and accuracy difference is nominal compared to the damage with the swords.
    ____________________________
    Thf/nin 75
    Drk/war 75
    Goldsmith 52
    Blacksmith 90+2
    Alchemy 60
    Leather 60
    CoP 8-2
    ZM 15
    Bastok 10
    #43 May 17 2004 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    256 posts
    Don't forget that Tricks also give hate to whomever stand closest to the Mob.

    For example:

    THF>War>Mob><PLD

    If a Bard or someone stand right on top of the mob or half frame, then the hate will transfer to that player instead of War.
    #44 May 18 2004 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    30 posts
    Great Topic!

    Btw.. Hey Ferth! I saw you today in Jeuno.. erm.. I dont know I just saw you on here.. Thought I'd say Hi. ((Love your gear :O))
    ____________________________
    Sleels
    Server: Gorefiend
    Level 17 Night Elf Druid


    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?10046

    Cooking: 50
    #45 May 19 2004 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
    **
    281 posts
    I noticed you used <bt> instead of <t>, can you please explain this? I am a level 32 PLD atm and I'd like to try to get a thf in a static party but I need to know how they work first. a list of macro abbeviations would be nice if you know a place or have a list, I've looked everywhere but I can only seem to find those listed in other indirectly related threads shuch as this one. Any info is appreciated! Great post btw, rated up!^^
    #46 May 20 2004 at 8:26 AM Rating: Default
    Scholar
    **
    589 posts
    <bt> means "battle target". It's a way to specifically target the mob currently engaged by the party.

    Think of being in Yhoator or the Crawler's Nest. Those lizzards that keep getting in the way... Using <bt> will ensure that you do not mistakenly hit a mob that you do not want to.

    There is a caveat though... if there is no currently engaged mob, the macro will return an error and fail. You couldn't use <bt> to pull for example.
    #47 May 21 2004 at 2:34 AM Rating: Decent
    *
    126 posts
    [quote=LeachmanThere is a caveat though... if there is no currently engaged mob, the macro will return an error and fail. You couldn't use <bt> to pull for example.[/quote]

    Not true^^ Using <bt> to pull is excellent. Just target the mob you want to pull and if there are no engaged mobs by your party <bt> acts just like <t>. Use your <Ranged Attack> and u can even unselect all targets and use <bt> to report the mob name to your pty while you're running back to camp.

    See my post under the thread "New thf and puller advice or something"
    #48 May 21 2004 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    589 posts
    Hmm, I've had it fail if I'm not engaged.
    #49 May 21 2004 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    428 posts
    Quote:
    Ryunoire
    I noticed you used <bt> instead of <t>, can you please explain this? I am a level 32 PLD atm and I'd like to try to get a thf in a static party but I need to know how they work first. a list of macro abbeviations would be nice if you know a place or have a list, I've looked everywhere but I can only seem to find those listed in other indirectly related threads shuch as this one. Any info is appreciated! Great post btw, rated up!^^

    heh, you looked everywhere but in this thread...less than 10 posts above yours, and a thread posted in the theif forum entitled <bt> versus <t>

    if you need to find my explination on this page, just hit Ctrl F and search for my name.
    #50 May 23 2004 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
    13 posts
    I really hate having to explain how this works to new parties. I think I just need to make a macro of it to save time. But even ppl that know it still don't think about it. Last night I was in a PT with a NIN 3 THF's(one of which is me), WHM, and BLM. Mob came in and I stood next to the NIN who was tanking. 2 thfs dtood behind and did their sneak attacks and then just stayed there. I had to remind them prob 10 times to get out of the way so that I could move around for my sneak attack. All thieves want their PT to know how to put them to full use and stand just right and so forth, but don't forget the rest of us! Even despite this the PT still did pretty good though
    #51 May 26 2004 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
    **
    673 posts
    very useful

    thanks for the help :D
    ____________________________
    Formerly: Xeno of Kujata
    Currently: Delasol of Valefor
    Reply To Thread

    Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

     

    Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
    Anonymous Guests (1)