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A guide to soloing merits on WHM? At 3-4k/hr?!Follow

#1 Apr 14 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Sub-Default
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Thought I'd share, but I can see that my ideas are not welcome or appreciated on here.

I'm not even going to bother posting some recent screenshots of staff/club damage. All I'll say is that it was **** close. Believe me or not, I don't give a crap.




Edited, Apr 17th 2010 12:41am by Seuca
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#2 Apr 15 2010 at 2:51 AM Rating: Decent
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"(Some people swear that having your BST sub capped at 75 helps with charming. I personally cannot comment on this, I’ve never tried it with a lower level BST sub"

Yet you do kinda comment it lol. People do not swear, it is a well known FACT that your BST has to be as high as the job you´re subbing it to if you want good (charm) results.

Also, there are quite some places where WHM/BST yields faster results xp wise and where you can get money drops also. The tree comes to mind.
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#3 Apr 15 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah your charm ability is based on your uncapped BST level, so if you have BST at 75 and go WHM/BST, you can charm things up to what a BST 75 could charm. If you have BST at 37 and try to charm Flamingos in Sky, I believe you will have a surprise in store, in the form of a very ****** off Flamingo. So you really need BST at 75 for this to work I think.
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#4Seuca, Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 10:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) LOLololOLoloLOlOLOLOlOL
#5 Apr 15 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Seuca wrote:
Weapon: Kinkobo, with pamamas. Gives you 329 delay on a 68 damage weapon, and don’t forget to throw on haste and Blessed gear. And guess what! Blunt damage, which Sprinklers are weak against. You will –destroy- the Sprinklers, assuming you have enough accuracy gear, as WHM’s staff skill is rather low. I routinely was taking hate from my flamingo, even with Blessed gear/merits. Spirit Taker your MP back, Retribution if you are full.


I'm curious, why would you use Staff over club? I'm pretty sure both Hexa and Mystic boon outperforms Retribution and Spirit taker on their respective fields. Not to mention the enormous skill difference, and that lower-delay clubs benefit more from Auspice's Enlight.

Besides, you could use Genbu's with the club; which is kinda nice.

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#6Seuca, Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 1:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) WWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
#7 Apr 15 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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Seuca wrote:
The main reason to use staff is to keep your MP pool full without having to rest at all.


Like I said, Mystic boon is better than Spirit taker for that.

And Brise-os isn't the best DPS club, far from it. Perdu still has better raw DPS. And if you have it, I'm sure a DMG+15 Culacula would be even better.

Yes, Kinkobo is an awesome weapon by itself; but it still suffers from being a staff. All the good things from it are easily offset by the craptacular weaponskills available. Crit+5% and some extra DPS can not offset retribution doing half the damage Hexa can; on top of the lower skill and lack of a shield.
This is not even mentioning that you can't use attack food on kinkobo, for even less attack when compared to a club.





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#8 Apr 15 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, Mystic Boon rules, but bear in mind not everyone has it. Doing WHM trials in the past few days, I've already met a few that don't have it. (Just about all of them wish they did)

Quote:
I'm curious, why would you use Staff over club? I'm pretty sure both Hexa and Mystic boon outperforms Retribution and Spirit taker on their respective fields. Not to mention the enormous skill difference, and that lower-delay clubs benefit more from Auspice's Enlight.

Besides, you could use Genbu's with the club; which is kinda nice.


Because it's a 2-hander weapon and they're obviously better, DUHHH!
#9 Apr 15 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure there are way more people with Mystic Boon than there are with access to /BST. I'd even daresay that having retribution is becoming even rarer than having Mystic; so yeah.

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#10 Apr 16 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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I've also never seen anyone in Sky killing pots other than the odd bored Sky LS (and you can just switch islands).
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(Little disclaimer: I haven’t done this in a while… but I’m assuming it’s still workable).
How long has it been since you've been in sky exactly?

Field's of Valor can throw a monkey in the wrench. It's great for the WHM/BST in this case, but it's also great for other ppl wanting to farm tabs.
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#11 Apr 16 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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Thought I'd share, but I can see that my ideas are not welcome or appreciated on here.

I'm not even going to bother posting some recent screenshots of staff/club damage. All I'll say is that it was **** close. Believe me or not, I don't give a crap.
Quite mature of you. People disagree with your ideas, so you take your ball and go home.

By and large, the vast majority of responses were polite, though they disagreed with your conclusions. I'm sorry, but you need to learn to accept CONSTRUCTIVE criticism for what it is. Not as a personal attack.
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#12 Apr 16 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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Cyth wrote:
Quite mature of you. People disagree with your ideas, so you take your ball and go home.

By and large, the vast majority of responses were polite, though they disagreed with your conclusions. I'm sorry, but you need to learn to accept CONSTRUCTIVE criticism for what it is. Not as a personal attack.


Pretty much this.
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#13 Apr 17 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm sure there are way more people with Mystic Boon than there are with access to /BST. I'd even daresay that having retribution is becoming even rarer than having Mystic; so yeah.


Probably, but I wasn't really trying to make a comparison there. To be honest, I hadn't even read the entire OP fully.

Looks like I won't get the chance to, either!
#14 Apr 20 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Seuca wrote:
The main reason to use staff is to keep your MP pool full without having to rest at all.


Like I said, Mystic boon is better than Spirit taker for that.

And Brise-os isn't the best DPS club, far from it. Perdu still has better raw DPS. And if you have it, I'm sure a DMG+15 Culacula would be even better.

Yes, Kinkobo is an awesome weapon by itself; but it still suffers from being a staff. All the good things from it are easily offset by the craptacular weaponskills available. Crit+5% and some extra DPS can not offset retribution doing half the damage Hexa can; on top of the lower skill and lack of a shield.
This is not even mentioning that you can't use attack food on kinkobo, for even less attack when compared to a club.







They only reason Mystic boon is better then spirit taker is on club. I still on occassion use a staff in campaign to make use of that bloody staff I paid 150k AN for. And when one handing mystic boon with no other modifiers.(Martial, /nin for 2 hits, /thf for sneak attack) spirit taker does about the same damage as mystic boon. However hexa still blows retribution out of the water with the right gear.(Depending on your DD gear retribution might do around the same damage, but if your geared for DDing or even just macroing in max mind gear for modifiers hexa will out perform retribution.

In short: Mystic boon only has specific situation where it does more then spirit taker. Hexa out performs retribution if you have the gear to make that happen. If your just doing it in your mage gear the difference won't be as noticeable.

Note: Before anyone jumps down my throat. I don't think it's a silly to suggest people macro in mind gear if they don't plan on spending the money for DD gear. If you have the gear to make your WS stronger on you from your normal maging activity why not macro it in? This is by no means saying that mind is better to macro in then str. And if you are seriously DDing you should be going after STR pieces. Not mind.
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#15 Apr 20 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
In short: Mystic boon only has specific situation where it does more then spirit taker. Hexa out performs retribution if you have the gear to make that happen. If your just doing it in your mage gear the difference won't be as noticeable.


Mystic has better mobs than Spirit taker. WHM's have more Club skill than staff skill, and tend to merit Club as well. The only thing that Spirit taker has over Mystic Boon is a higher damage weapon (Usually a D:29 difference).

Basically, you can gear yourself where Mystic is doing the same or at least closely enough as Spirit taker thanks to the 30% STR mod instead of 50%INT (STR is adding double bonuses for MB); and the new D:57 Culacula (Only a 11 damage difference now).
This is of course just for WS damage. Clubs will usually generate more Weaponskills over Staff due to the Skill difference; and needing slightly less upkeep thanks to Genbu's shield.

Besides, Club Merits and/or the new Double Attack clubs completely move the scale in favor of Mystic Boon. Might not be doing more; but they will fire off much more often due to better skill and WS frequency.

So really, there are not many situations where Kinkobo shines over clubs. I'd really only bust it out for fighting DC mobs or below; but if I was doing that I might as well just be looking to do more damage.



Edited, Apr 20th 2010 12:47pm by Drakonite
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#16 Apr 20 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
You are missing the point I was trying to make. I am talking about the weaponskills themselves. There very few situations were as a whole staff will beat out club.(Btw Low balling my dex on hume as 50. Club will only have 11 acc on staff. The gap shortens as your dex goes higher(Mithra and tarus) so the difference in TP gain won't be as noticable as you thought. Especially since staff has much better sub options from straps for tp gain then club does from shield.)

However the weaponskill on compared damage to damage is the same. And that's with builds towards their modifiers etc. Club will always beat staff as a whole for whm. Hexa will always beat retribution.(unless you are just flailing in mage gear and retribution can *compare* to hexa.) Mystic boon will not out right beat spirit taker when comparing the weaponskills themselves.
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#17 Apr 20 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Club will only have 11 acc on staff.


More or less Correct. Diff should be of 9.15~ on a hume with 57Dex but only without club merits. This grows to around 23.5 with merits.

Quote:
However the weaponskill on compared damage to damage is the same. And that's with builds towards their modifiers etc.


Yes and no. 30%STR mod and 50%INT mod are kinda funky when compared. STR should technically be better; but my rough calculations have me needing a bit too much STR to offset the INT modifier (Having higher INT doesn't help either). So while 30%STR should eventually pull ahead thanks to fSTR; I couldn´t get any realistic number (Or maybe my math is just off).

However; none of this takes into account Attack. I am unsure of Spirit; but I do know attack affects MB greatly. MB will naturally have at least 11 Attack over Spirit without merits. However, here is where Kinkobo´s glaring flaw shows: It needs a Pamama to work. So if we assume a cheap mithkabob for MB; it is 71 Attack and 8 STR ahead of Spirit (Due to -3 on Pamama).

So now the question is: Does spirit taker get any kind of attack bonus like some of the 1-hit WS's? My guess is no, but I really haven't played with it on anything higher than DC to be sure. If it does, I'll declare it superior and move on.
However, if it doesn't and relies on attack just as much as MB; then this raises the question of whether 71Attack and 8 STR can outweigh 11 Damage difference (Signs point to yes).

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It is better wither to be silent, or to say things of more value than silence. Sooner throw a pearl at hazard than an idle or useless word; and do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few.
- Pythagoras
#18 May 02 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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Eh, the main reason to go Kinkobo is if you've got /SAM leveled enough to take advantage of Hasso, and one **** of a haste build, and (preferably) a pocket BRD. (Total haste: ~70%, vs. ~60% on club. I'm pretty sure the extra 33% attacks - and about 25% more WSes - makes up for the lack of attack food.)

At that point, it's not really soloing, though, it's duoing (and you should find some like-minded WHMs to fill out the party, and go bash on pots or bones).
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