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Curaga IV more useful now?Follow

#1 Feb 28 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
So I don't play my whm as much as other jobs but I do remember rarely or ever using that spell...

What kind of cure numbers could we potentially get out of this now what with the level cap increase?

Looks like peoples hp could reach upwards of 3-4k.
#2 Feb 28 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think the amount we can cure with that is going to change all that much (unless a whole **** of new cure potency gear gets released), but there is still the possibility of receiving Cure 6 and Curaga 5, so...
#3 Feb 28 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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i think what he meant is that as it is curaga IV is mostly a waste because our hp aren't high enough to make it useful but with higher lvs comes higher hp meaning maybe it will be useful and not overcure anymore.
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#4 Feb 28 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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The real insane stuff is Accession Stoneskin, or Convert and Refresh, which are at level 40. Also SCH gets Accession Haste possibly. Either way, I think BLM/RDM just got fixed.
#5 Feb 28 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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My only problem with AoE stratagems is that we're now stuck on the same dilemma as a level 40 SCH: We have a lot of useful stuff to AoE and only 2 charges to use =/

Oh well, at least this will solve a lot of headaches. I do wonder how will all the utility /SCH brings will fare against /RDM's sheer MP longevity.

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#6 Feb 28 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Drakonite wrote:
My only problem with AoE stratagems is that we're now stuck on the same dilemma as a level 40 SCH: We have a lot of useful stuff to AoE and only 2 charges to use =/

Oh well, at least this will solve a lot of headaches. I do wonder how will all the utility /SCH brings will fare against /RDM's sheer MP longevity.

The thing is, we have a little less to worry about with AoEing things:

* -nas - Anything that can be taken off with non-Misery Esuna doesn't need Accession.
* Haste - I'm slightly worried that Haste will end up on the same list as Raise/Reraise: "can't use with Accession".
* Protect/Shell/Cure - We already have AoE versions for cheaper than Accession would give them.

Accession basically goes on Stoneskin and, if they allow it, Haste. And Stona.

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As far as /SCH vs. /RDM at 80+, I'm leaning towards it still being firmly in /SCH's camp (well, until 96, at which point every mage gets replaced with SCH/RDM, and you'll want to get your club and/or staff capped for WHM/NIN or WHM/SAM).

Granted, this is all assuming that a couple of specific from-sub nerfs that I'm expecting happen:

* Accession/Manifestation have cast time/MP cost multipliers of 3 from sub instead of 2 on SCH main;
* Convert's return is half strength.
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#7 Feb 28 2010 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's going to be radically different. 4 mages (WHM, SCH, RDM, SMN) will all be able to AoE haste for cheaper than casting on everyone individually. Having as many mages come to events won't really be necessary, because people are going to run out of things to do.

In an xp party, one charge goes to AoE haste of course, and the other can go to Penury or Stoneskin. In events, it will likely just be Penury the whole time, maybe Stoneskin. Charge limitations are going to be a huge problem. Either way though, I don't see /RDM overtaking /SCH unless it's for very short fights, like boss fights in missions, or BCNMs, etc. People will switch back and forth like /BLM and /SMN used to.

I guess WHM can Manifestation Aspir/Drain/Sleep now. I wonder if Accession works with Repose?

SCH walked out with the kitchen sink on this one. Everything they already had + Convert, Refreshga, Hastega. They'll probably get another charge by 99 also.

WHM seems like it will get Cure VI, which is a complete mystery. Not sure what else to expect. Maybe Raise 3 will restore more xp or something.

Either way you look at it, WHM has to choose between a sub that only offers Convert, or everything that comes with SCH, but heavily limited by charges. WHM should definitely get an auto-refresh trait, or another charge, or Osmose. BLM should get Aspir II and their own set of stances since they'll be using /RDM anyway.

Edited, Feb 28th 2010 6:33pm by JingWoo
#8 Feb 28 2010 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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JingWoo wrote:
I guess WHM can Manifestation Aspir/Drain/Sleep now. I wonder if Accession works with Repose?
Probably not, so expect Reposega (and possibly Repose II, to go along with BLM and RDM possibly getting Sleep III) to crop up post-75.

Quote:
SCH walked out with the kitchen sink on this one. Everything they already had + Convert, Refreshga, Hastega. They'll probably get another charge by 75 also.
Not due for the fifth charge until 90, which is still a charge every 48 seconds.

Quote:
WHM seems like it will get Cure VI, which is a complete mystery. Not sure what else to expect. Maybe Raise 3 will restore more xp or something.
Either way you look at it, WHM has to choose between a sub that only offers Convert, or everything that comes with SCH, but heavily limited by charges.

WHM should definitely get an auto-refresh trait, or another charge, or Osmose. BLM should get Aspir II and their own set of stances.
Cure VI makes sense if they pass Cure V around to RDM and possibly SCH as well - they'd adjust Cure V's formula and enmity, and make Cure VI the new "low-hate" cure.

SCH is likely to get Raise 3 towards the high 90s, and RDM is likely to get Raise 2 in the mid-80s (assuming the 1.4x/1.5x level multipliers continue for SCH and RDM for raises). As a result, we're likely to see at least Raise IV, which will either have no EXP loss or reduced weakness. (We might even see Raise V, which I'd expect to have no weakness.)

Auto-refresh would be nice (55?), as would Osmose; an additional charge is unlikely, though. A second set of stances at 80, or job traits that enhance the existing stances at 80, probably isn't unlikely.

Also, Holy II is going to be probably the most MP-efficient nuke in the game assuming it's added, especially if it's capable of ramping up further than Holy is...
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#9 Feb 28 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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They'll need a Cura II or Pray also if they expect anyone to use Afflatus Misery at higher levels.
#10 Feb 28 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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Uh oh, I just detected a problem in the Party food chain now.

Everyone gets Haste/Hastega now; so we're all even on that part (WHM RDM SCH SMN). But of those 4, WHM now has the least to offer to a "Merit" party.

Why? Because both RDM/SCH, SCH/RDM and SMN/Whatever can now offer -ga Enspells. RDM's are probably going to be king on that now (Dia III+Enspells II-ga), with SCH's closely behind (Enspells+Storms). And SMN's will be more capable of keeping the strong parties alive with Cure IV fully accessible. So this leaves us as third/fourth option at best =x

Anyways, thing's I'm expecting to see in 24 more levels of WHM:

- Magic Defense Bonus V at level 90 (18MDB). It follows the thrend of every 20, and the last was at 70.

- Clear Mind V at level 80, Clear Mind VI at level 95. (Again, trends in traits). The only job likely to get Clear Mind VII is SMN (BLM will get VI at 90).

- Banish IV, Banishga III. They where even hinted at and are the obvious upgrade.

- Holy II? Could be a possibility.

- Raise/Reraise IV

- Cure VI, Curaga V. Hopefully this will be something more than just "Even more HP!". They could add all kind of nice things to it. Maybe make it cost less MP, make it insta-cast, anything.

- Reposega?

- New tier of Protect/Shells? It feels odd that there would be no more in 24 levels; altho I'm unsure of how they'd work given we have the V's as merit spells.

Things I'd like to see:

- Haste II. Since the trademark be-all-end-all spell is now subable to everyone. I'd like at least some distinction. RDM's are requesting Refresh II, so Haste II seems fit for us. Maybe even add the -ga Version somewhere (WHM mobs can use Hastega, I've seen it!)

That, or give us Auspice II or something. Allow us to give the Enlight to everyone. Again, purely to remain competent in our new age of Convert/Haste-gaing overlords.

- Barspells II. Or maybe those double element spells in the .dat's. (Barignis, Baraer, Barterra, Baraqua).



Edited, Feb 28th 2010 11:46pm by Drakonite
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#11 Mar 01 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Drakonite wrote:
Everyone gets Haste/Hastega now; so we're all even on that part (WHM RDM SCH SMN). But of those 4, WHM now has the least to offer to a "Merit" party.
In addition to the lack of AoE enspells, we would also be the only one without Convert, and Refresh in a merit party.

Edited, Mar 1st 2010 12:47pm by JingWoo
#12 Mar 03 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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If haste II is added, I'm doubtful that it will add very much potency considering how broken it could potentially become. They could increase the duration or give us hastega instead, and I would be pretty excited.

I'm half expecting them to change the formula of haste to depend on enhancing skill so melees won't be able to give themselves a full 15%, or at least not for a full 3 minutes. On the other hand they might just gimp it while subbed, which would keep scholars in their current place as far as xp parties go.

If they want to add more tiers to protect and shell, they'd have to change our group 2 merits to something else, like maybe protect/shell potency. Other SE games have had buffs like safe, wall, reflect, shield, and mighty guard, so maybe we'll get a version of one of those, instead.
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#13 Mar 03 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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The point of getting more potency in the form of Haste II is to make us competitive again. Only affecting the duration (or simply giving us hastega) only makes it more convenient. It doesn't help the problem that we're now the mage that offers less DD crack.

Like I said: It doesn't needs to be Haste II. They could Unlock Auspice's Enlight/Accuracy bonus to everyone, or give us Regain.

Besides, RDM's are getting Refresh II. I wouldn't call it far fetched to ask for Haste II.


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#14 Mar 04 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
I personally use to use curaga IV constantly>.> Massive AoE in dynamis? Rail cannon spam in salvage? Incoming Curaga IV. So long as you know where you hate is about you can use it a lot more then what I've seen other WHMs use it.


Plus it gives me an excuse to type out(Since I don't macro spells on whm):

"Please come feel my healing balls."
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#15 Mar 04 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Drakonite wrote:


Besides, RDM's are getting Refresh II. I wouldn't call it far fetched to ask for Haste II.




What makes you think that Red Mage might end up getting Refresh II? There's no animation for it in the .dat files yet, and it's not like it was ever stated in any form during Vanafest that they would be getting it. I'm not saying that you're wrong and that they won't, I'm just saying that so far, there's nothing concrete to base that assumption on.

Going through the .dat files though, some of the things that White Mages might be getting could include the second line of Bar-spells (which include a line of what seem to be Bar-spells for two elements simultaneously, Might, Faith, Libra, Wall, Holy II, higher tier Banishes and Banishgas (up to V)and Reflect, among the aforementioned higher tier Cure and Curaga spells.
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#16 Mar 04 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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As far as refresh 2, it was pretty much said in the interview, don't have a link, but its mentioned.

Curaga 4 can be very useful, its just lett useful in a conventional party. Nyzul, Dyna, Salvage i have used it in all these Situations.

Ever done a Mnk, Mnk, Mnk, Mnk Pld, Whm party? You'll use curaga 4 every so often.

It is about the only time i also say anything while curing. I don't have a marco, i just say Pulling hate, keep me alive XD.

If you cire for 800 with cure 5, thats how much your Ciraga 4 will cure everyone, and as a taru whm, i am typically the only one who it overcures, but when im in Dyna in a party of 5 melee and myself, I'll sometimes have to Dis Seal it to cap everyone off.

I used to have the High HP melees, the Galka melees, the Elvaan Mnks etc in my party cause i was good at tossing out the big cures and not getting slaughtered right after.
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#17 Mar 04 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
What makes you think that Red Mage might end up getting Refresh II? There's no animation for it in the .dat files yet, and it's not like it was ever stated in any form during Vanafest that they would be getting it.


Actaully, it was semi-confirmed in an interview 3 days ago.

Besides, they can always make new animations. Sacrifice, Repose, Cura, Esuna, Composure, both Afflatu's, and Auspice where all new animations not in the .dat's.

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#18 Mar 04 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Drakonite wrote:
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
What makes you think that Red Mage might end up getting Refresh II? There's no animation for it in the .dat files yet, and it's not like it was ever stated in any form during Vanafest that they would be getting it.


Actaully, it was semi-confirmed in an interview 3 days ago.

Besides, they can always make new animations. Sacrifice, Repose, Cura, Esuna, Composure, both Afflatu's, and Auspice where all new animations not in the .dat's.



All that interview says though is that Matsui would like to see a stronger form of Refresh added, but that's still leaving the possibility of it not being added. The poster I quoted said it like it was stated fact that Red Mages absolutely would be getting it, whereas the actual interview suggested that, while likely that it will be, it's not absolute that they will.

As I said before, while I'll admit that there's a possibility of them adding it, right now there's nothing in any form that's firmly cementing the fact that they will.

Edited, Mar 4th 2010 11:13pm by Vlorsutes
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#19 Mar 04 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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I'm the poster you quoted. And yes, it is not a cemented fact that they will add Refresh II; but the possibility now that they add it is much higher than not.

With Refresh being subbable, 24 more levels to add spells, and word straight from a Dev of his wish of adding it; it is safe to assume it will happen.

And before we start arguing the validity of that comment, keep in mind all of the following only have the "We want to add it" confirmation as well:

Sekkanoki being subbable
BLM's getting Meteor
Waltzes being able to target outside party members.
War's Sentinel-like ability.
THF's Treasure Hunter III
WHM's Divine/Healing spells
RDM's New Enfeeble Spells
DRG's New Jump/Wyvern abilities
MNK's +Subtle Blow/Accuracy and -TP gain JA
RNG's decreased enmity JA

So I just don't see why this is even being questioned; outside of the always-lurking possibility of SE backtracking their words (Like the RNG's Enmity thing before).

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#20 Mar 04 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
A lot of what they announced at Vanafest (short of what they've announced on the main POL site, and even that was stated to be subject to change) are just what they're thinking of adding later on, not what they've dead set on deciding to add. Look at the past Ranger update to where they initially planned on Rangers generating less enmity the farther they are from the mob, and then they decided to not adding it at the last minute. I'm not trying to be a buzz kill and shooting down all the possibilities there are, it's just that when it comes to updates, it's best not to count all our chickens before they hatch.
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#21 Mar 05 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Good
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Which is... exactly what I said? I even commented on the RNG thing. That is just circular logic.

What they said about Refresh II is as possible to be implemented as what they said about Meteor, or anything they've ever announced (Even offical POL updates).

Are you telling me that we should not speculate the consequences and implications of the devs adding what they said they where adding; just because there is a small chance of it not happening? Because that's pretty silly on a thread that is just about that.

The conjecture is simple: If they add Refresh II because Refresh 1 is subable and a no longer a job-defining spell; then Haste II should be expected because it is also subable and no longer a job-defining spell.

Is there a chance Refresh II is not added? Sure there is. But this adds another layer of problems about mage homogenization that can also be speculated upon.

It's not about claiming you have X chickens before they hatch; it's about knowing how many can hatch.



Edited, Mar 5th 2010 1:20am by Drakonite
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#22 Mar 05 2010 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Drakonite wrote:
Everyone gets Haste/Hastega now; so we're all even on that part (WHM RDM SCH SMN). But of those 4, WHM now has the least to offer to a "Merit" party.

Why? Because both RDM/SCH, SCH/RDM and SMN/Whatever can now offer -ga Enspells. RDM's are probably going to be king on that now (Dia III+Enspells II-ga), with SCH's closely behind (Enspells+Storms). And SMN's will be more capable of keeping the strong parties alive with Cure IV fully accessible. So this leaves us as third/fourth option at best =x


Enspell IIs use the old macc formula so I doubt any intelligent RDM would ever cast those on PT members(uses your enhancing skill on hit instead of on cast). On the other hand, maybe this will get SE to finally realize the **** up Enspell IIs.
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#23 Mar 05 2010 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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Auspice does the same thing D:

Hopefully they'll fix them at the same time (*'-')/

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#24 Mar 05 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Moved this to a diff thread

Edited, Mar 5th 2010 3:55pm by eldelphia
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