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#1 Jan 30 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
3,883 posts
So, I'm looking at relative skills and MND sets for RDM and WHM and thinking WHM can hold it's own on most things, but what is optimal and what are our limitations?

RDM: 276
WHM/SCH: 256

Enfeebling accuracy is generally understood to be:
Skill = +1%
M.ACC = +1%
MND gives +1% M.ACC if your MND is 10 greater than targets or less. Any MND beyond that is going to give 0.5% M.ACC. More on this later.

Obviously, we can all carry appropriate staves, so here's some other possible swaps:

Cleric's Mitts: Enfeebling Skill+15
Healer's Bruialt(+1): Enfeeling Skill+10(12)

So now we're looking at 283 skill before going for a torque.

For legs we can either do Nashira (Skill+5) or Mahamta (MND+8) where the benefits of each will vary depending on the mob. However I'd tend to prefer the Mahatma where the MND is also adding potency.

For feet, Goliard give MND+4 M.ACC+2. Or, if you're lucky enough for Marduk's Crackows, MND+10 Skill+5 (295 skill with HQ body and torque, closing in on RDM!).

MND is going to win out in most other slots where there isn't sufficient M.ACC or Skill to outweigh it. Although the M.ACC+5 set earrings are worth a mention.

Now back to MND... Do we have any estimates on the MND levels of popular targets? Such as Mamools, or ground kings, or ToAU kings? How much MND are we looking at stacking before you hit that decreasing return? I know RDMs can land paralyze on Khimaira, and can silence most anything that isn't immune, but can WHM hit that level of potency?
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#2 Jan 31 2010 at 2:52 AM Rating: Excellent
597 posts
I think on my WHM I cast most enfeebles at 311 enfeebling magic, 120 mnd? I might totally be pulling that mnd number out of my ***, I honestly don't remember that part.

With full merits, /sch, relic hands, torque, af body, omega ring, cass/hele, MMJ/Enfeeb earring, witch sash, that enfeeb+5 back, marduk feet, yea, whm can enfeeb its *** off. It will never be as potent as rdm, but it can hang. I've never done any MND tests to see what's needed on HNMs and the like though, maybe Perg or someone can shed more light on that.

Edited, Jan 31st 2010 3:53am by Logiks
#3 Jan 31 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
957 posts
On WHM I have two sets of enfeebling gear: A pure MND set and a maximun land rate set. Usually, I'll wear the pure MND set for Paralyze/Slow, and the Land rate one for Silence.

MND Set:
(2)  Raptor Leather Strap 
(1)  Holy Ampulla 
(7)  Healer's Cap +1 
(10) Errant Houppelande 
(7)  Blessed Mitts 
(8)  Mahatma Slops 
(10) Marduk's Crackows 
(5)  Tamas Ring 
(5)  Aqua Ring 
(6)  Ajari Bead Necklace 
(5)  Aslan Cape 
(6)  Cleric's Belt 
(3)  Mamool Ja Earring 
(2)  MND+2 Earring

This gives a total of +77MND and +5 Enfeebling skill. It still has room for improvement (Some HQ pieces, and an Alkalurops). You can also get some Mushroom Stew for another +10.

This is my All-out Land rate set.
Raptor Leather Strap 
Holy Ampulla 
Nashira Turban 
Healer's Briault +1 
Cleric's Mitts +1 
Nashira Legs  
Marduk's Crackows 
Balrahn's Ring 
Omega Ring 
Enfeebling Torque 
Altruist's Cape 
Cleric's Belt 
Mamool Ja Earring 
MND+2 Earring

This gives me somewhere between +63 Skill/M.Accuracy. So, totalling with /SCH and with Merits, it would equal around 335 skill. It could still be improved adding Enfeebling/M.Accuracy earrings(Or Casandra/Hellenous), a Witch Sash, Sturm's Report, and maaaaybe the Elemental grips.

Now to answer your questions:

Generally speaking, the MND set will be enough to land it on anything you'd want to land it. Mamool's and merit mobs are a joke. Same goes for anything in Salvage and Limbus (Including U/O and Chariots).

As far as enfeebling Ground/ToAU kings goes, it get's a bit trickier. The problem lies that you won't get a good land rate on this things with the MND setup. But the Skill setup will often find itself very weak in comparison.
So what do I do? I stick with the MND setup and cast it until it lands. 6MP for Paralyze and 15MP for Slow is a drop in the bucket really. You can pretty much spam paralyze until it lands; and slow can be spammed as well provided you haste yourself.

Also, if you're short on RDM's and you absolutely need Slow on a given HNM (Say, Cerb); it is possible to do an ES slow rotation with WHM/BLM. So you'll want the full MND set (+MND weapon) for that.
This is about the only serious thing you might /BLM for nowadays.

Edited, Jan 31st 2010 4:14pm by Drakonite
It is better wither to be silent, or to say things of more value than silence. Sooner throw a pearl at hazard than an idle or useless word; and do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few.
- Pythagoras
#4 Feb 05 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
4,229 posts
The enfeeb set that I use is:
Raptor Strap +1
Sturm's Report
Selenian Cap (MND+4 M.Acc+3)
Spider Torque
Sapphire Earring (M.Acc+2 from ACP7)
Magnetic Earring
Healer's Briault +1
Cleric's Mitts +1
Tamas Ring
Omega Ring
Errant Cape (never been able to justify a MND cape for just enfeebs, and no sea cape)
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers +1
Marduk's Crackows

I think this puts me at 309 enfeeb with Light Arts + 8/8 merits, 124 MND, and +24 M.Acc.

I've found this to be enough for just about everything. The few exceptions are Cerb/Khim/Hydra, and MMM NM's. I have trouble on those but I can usually land it after a few tries. I've out-enfeebled moderate RDMs with this setup before, especially with regard to potency... of course you'll never come close to a hardcore RDM. I was pretty surprised at how often I could enfeeb Nyzul 60+ bosses though, since I've been told they're all but impossible to enfeeb.

With a good setup, WHM enfeebs can be more than enough in pretty much any battle, including all but the most resistant of HNMs.
Pergatory (Asura, Kupo LS) WHM99 ~ SMN99 ~ DRK99
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#5 Feb 05 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
3,767 posts
Personally, I stack on skill on every slot I can and always use appropriate elemental staff. While it's true that MND effects potency of slow/para, it's not as much as most people wish.

Besides, if you're getting resisted and it takes 15-30 seconds to land an enfeeble, you're doing far more damage to your party than can be made up with any amount of potency.

edit: clarification

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 2:38pm by chewzer
Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#6 Feb 06 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
29,628 posts
I've found this to be enough for just about everything. The few exceptions are Cerb/Khim/Hydra, and MMM NM's. I have trouble on those but I can usually land it after a few tries.

Landing anything on those is a crapshoot. A BRD/WHM probably has the same chance to land one as you do.
#7 Feb 07 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
3,883 posts
Actually, I know that Cerb can be elegied much easier than Khim. Therefore I would have to assume he doesn't have the level of magic evasion that Khim has (who is thunder based and therefore should be easier to slow/elegy).

People fight Hydra? Kill Tinnin to get it out of your system.
"I've got more hot than a cow has moo"
FaffyOfDiabolos is now OfPandy.
From Unlocked to Uncapped - Faffy's Complete DRG Guide
#8 Feb 07 2010 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
2,689 posts
This is what I use... then I can stick in Nashira head/legs if needed but found I rarely do. I have 6 Enf merits.

HQ Staff
Raptor Strap +1
Sturm's Report
Healer's Cap +1 (for a ton of MND)
Enfeebling Torque
Enfeebling Earring
Magnetic Earring
Healer's Briault +1
Cleric's Mitts (I should +1 em but right now I can store the set)
Tamas Ring
Omega Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers (I have nashira but I like the MND etc on these)
Marduk's Crackows

Edited, Feb 7th 2010 1:22pm by eldelphia
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#9 Feb 07 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
176 posts
I love enfeebling stuff on WHM, but I have more opportunities to melee@events than I do to feeb@events, so ...

For now, I usually just carry full skill/acc, for Sleep & Silence. That's really the only stuff I cast often, and it's mostly crowded rooms in Nyzul, helping sleep/silence in Dynamis, or lowman stuff.

(I think it's 314+17acc?) *Edit: Found it!

It's not perfect, but neither am I!

But I'm glad there are some WHMs here still MNDing it up! :)

Edited, Feb 7th 2010 11:37am by RyaWHM
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