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Mage job quandaryFollow

#1 Dec 17 2009 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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I'm having trouble deciding which mage job to level. I'm mostly interested in leveling a healer/buffer, which eliminates blm. As some background, I'm a galka with both pld and drk to 75, so I can merit all magic skill for whm, rdm, and sch. Whm was my main on another character for two and a half years, so I'm familiar with what the job is capable of. It has changed a lot though with the advent of /sch and it's new job abilities. I loved the job, but I also find rdm and sch fun. All three of them are around lv 40, so I've had some experience with all of them (although admittedly, I soloed most of the way for all of them as /bst). I do mostly solo and low man stuff in end game. The main need would be for added flexibility in a low-man limbus group and Nyzul Isle.

Benefits for me leveling whm would be that I really like the job, and /sch and the updates would be fun to mess around with. Also, while I've never actually seen it, from what I've read on the forums Mystic Boon is pretty awesome. The major drawback would be that having whm wouldn't really benefit an all mage group, which would be a very real scenario for some limbus zones and the major thing I'm missing with my current two jobs. However, none of my friends have whm lvled, so it'd be unique.

Rdm would be great for buffing and enfeebling, but I'd be really sad about the loss of reraise and regen II. And as a galka, my convert ratio would be pretty crappy. On the plus side, I recently acquired a Joyeuse for my pld. Rdm is a solo powerhouse, but my pld solos pretty well as it is, and I won't ever acquire the gear necessary to solo truly menacing prey. I don't have many friends that have rdm lvled, so it would be a very welcome addition to a small group. My main duo partner and bff in game is a drg, blu, and blm, all of which would compliment rdm very well.

Sch is a bit of an enigma to me. I know it's a really powerful and flexible mage job, and it plays pretty similarly to whm. How well does it do in context of solo and low-man? Can stoneskinga and AOE en-spells offset the lack of haste and/or refresh? A couple of my friends have sch lvled, which doesn't benefit from having a rdm for refresh.

I appreciate any and all comments, including the obligatory "stfu noob, play what you like."
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#2 Dec 18 2009 at 1:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know this may not fly so well on the WHM forum, but from what I gather, I'd recommend RDM for you. It shines in any sort of grouping, big or small and is probably the best solo job in the game for most things. RDM also shines /BST (as does WHM, admittedly, just not as much as RDM).

RDM is also a lot more forgiving for a Galka, as max MP matters little in the grand scheme of things, with Refresh being your bread and butter. WHM/SCH remedies this to an extent, but RDM offers Refresh regardless of sub and it never actually physically hurts to use.

Joyeuse, and possibly sword merits since you have PLD, are also wonderful for a RDM (Club merits would be nice too, but meriting club is a bit silly, considering how many more jobs benefit from meriting sword over club).

SCH, WHM and RDM would all work, even with you being Galka - don't let race dissuade you from lvling any job. I'd recommend RDM personally, but I'll let others speak on the matter.
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#3 Dec 18 2009 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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I'll bite.

If a healer/buffer is what you want, SCH is probably your best bet as a Galka. It relies much less on MP and more on JA's and timers. Not to mention that a Light Arts SCH is usually unaffected by gear; meaning that you could probably pile on plenty of +MP gear without affecting your performance.

It's also an OK mage-party buffer thanks to Weather/Stormsurge/Klimaform-ga. And if you're feeling like it, you can also play "BLM" with it. Which is great for those manaburn setups you seem worried about.




As for a totally unrelated note. Have you considered SMN? It seems to have everything you asked for: Buffs, Stoneskin, Haste, Solo Opportunities, Healing Capabilities, and is now Manaburn friendly as a refresher thanks to Diabolos's favor.
Not to mention that Galka's can get a pretty **** good HP/MP ratio with it.



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#4 Dec 18 2009 at 4:59 AM Rating: Good
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I'd actually go for WHM/SCH or SCH itself. Both will be incredibly efficient. I find that SCH shines in Limbus because it often gives some extra healing oomph but can switch over for nuking very quickly. I also think SCH shines in lowman where you want a bit of everything. You don't need refresh but the fact you can raise II one min and Thunder IV the next is more than useful.

If you want flexibility, go for SCH, much as I love WHM. I adore SCH as a job, but it doesn't get out as much as my WHM. If you want a chat about this, I'm actually on Alexander so send me a /tell :)

With main SCH the things you will miss are Curaga and Haste. Strategems are used up very fast. Tier III raises and reraise aren't missed. AoE Grav/Stoneskin/Phalanx etc are awesome.

Otherwise, WHM/SCH is a dream for a galka in comparison to other subjobs. But don't get me started on /SCH :)


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#5 Dec 18 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
RDM is also a lot more forgiving for a Galka, as max MP matters little in the grand scheme of things, with Refresh being your bread and butter.


Not saying that Galka is totally screwed here, but for RDM, max MP actually does matter more than it does for other mages because for us it's essentially another form of MP recovery (Convert). If you've ever seen Elvaan or Galka RDMs use Convert without a +MP set and notice that they're just about out of MP again already after healing themselves back up, you'd understand what I'm getting at here.

This just means that you should have the sense to pack in as much +MP gear as you need to at least match your HP (and if you can easily achieve this, like if you're Taru, also work on building your +HP) for when you Convert, and macro it off once you've used up your "extra" MP.

Edited, Dec 18th 2009 9:40am by Fynlar
#6 Dec 18 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Since people have already made good points about your job choice, I'll answer this part for ya:
Vidali wrote:
Sch is a bit of an enigma to me. I know it's a really powerful and flexible mage job, and it plays pretty similarly to whm. How well does it do in context of solo and low-man? Can stoneskinga and AOE en-spells offset the lack of haste and/or refresh? A couple of my friends have sch lvled, which doesn't benefit from having a rdm for refresh.
For soloing, SCH is pretty much boned. They're hindered by limited charges and timers, so RDM is going to be way more efficient at that. I don't think it's very realistic to build any sort of melee set with SCH either; even WHM is stronger than SCH in that aspect.

For lowmanning things, SCH is a godsend. Stoneskinga, Phalanxga, and in some situations Blinkga and Regenga are godly tools for damage mitigation. When the situation allows, Enspellgas can add enough supplemental damage to equal another DD's DoT without giving the mob any more TP. When not busy buffing, a SCH can easily switch to being a capable main healer or nuker.

I'm not sure if a SCH's buffs really 'offset the lack of haste and/or refresh', that's like comparing apples to oranges. It's all situational.
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#7 Dec 18 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only chewzer wrote:
For soloing, SCH is pretty much boned. They're hindered by limited charges and timers, so RDM is going to be way more efficient at that. I don't think it's very realistic to build any sort of melee set with SCH either; even WHM is stronger than SCH in that aspect.


Depends on what you're talking about Solo. SCH is more than capable of soloing for EXP; and also has a plenitude of solo's available to them.

SCH functions more like a BLM. If BLM can solo it; chances are SCH can as well.

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#8 Dec 18 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was ready to recommend WHM for you because it sounded like you'd really enjoy it, until I came to this:
Vidali wrote:
My main duo partner and bff in game is a drg, blu, and blm, all of which would compliment rdm very well.

As much as I hate to say it, there are few combos as potent in the game as RDM + BLM. If your best friend in the game has BLM, then RDM seems like an obvious choice just to allow you two to do the most possible together. WHM can help BLM still, using abilities like Devotion, or helping with enfeebles, but RDM & BLM are like peas & carrots.

However, that being said, I still think WHM is a good choice for you and probably SCH as well. I think the primary thing you should consider is what kind of role you prefer. WHM is very reaction-based, and is really closer to PLD than any other job for that reason (When abc happens, you cast xyz). RDM in a non-healer role will often be more on the routine side of things, cycle through Hastes & Refreshes, keep enfeebles up, etc. SCH seems to be kind of on the fence between the two and can be either reactionary or routine, it just depends on what role the SCH is playing.

So my suggestion is to figure out if reactionary jobs are really what get your juices flowing... if so, I'd suggest WHM. If not, I'd suggest RDM as it will be more useful for duoing stuff with your best friend who has BLM leveled.
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#9 Dec 19 2009 at 2:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I appreciate all of the candid comments. It has been very helpful. I may not be that much closer to deciding which job to actually level, but at least I have a broader scope of the benefits and drawbacks of each. It's tough to choose what job to level when you like all of your choices. Maybe that's a good problem to have. I'll just respond to a couple things quick. First, my mage job doesn't *necessarily* need to be the ultimate soloer. Pld/rdm solos pretty similarly to rdm on things that can be melee (as far as I understand at least), and I'll eventually finish my bst for the niche mobs that have decent natural pets around. A decent solo mage job will simply allow it to see the light of day more often. I don't have too many merits right now, and I get most of them through campaign and FoV. I have 2/8 sword merits (which will be finished someday regardless of mage job) and 3/8 mp merits. I'll try to get another 2 mp merits at least, and decide what to do from there. One thing that would be very helpful out of a mage job would be desirability for a merit party, although as far as I understand whm, rdm, and sch are all pretty desirable. The pts would pretty much be all PUGs since I'm not part of a big linkshell.

I got smn up to 37 on my other character and I really didn't enjoy that job. I actually just unlocked smn on this character about a month ago, so it's still sitting at lv 1. I currently carry around a relatively simple mp set for my pld and drk for full mp situations where I could benefit from a free Dread Spikes or Cure IV. Admittedly, part of the reason that I rerolled as a Galka was that I thought that I was a skilled enough mage that I could overcome the mp penalty. The added challenge makes it more fun and being able to keep up in a lv 38~ pt as the solo mage is pretty cool.
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#10 Dec 19 2009 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
For soloing, SCH is pretty much boned. They're hindered by limited charges and timers,


Whaaaaaat. Have you ever actually tried it? >_>

When I solo on SCH I have more charges than I know what to do with most of the time, due to the required cooldown between pet respawns...
#11 Dec 19 2009 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I love having partial sentences quoted.

Edit: But you're probably right, I'm not giving SCH enough credit.

Edited, Dec 19th 2009 8:25pm by chewzer
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#12 Dec 20 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only chewzer wrote:
I love having partial sentences quoted.

Edit: But you're probably right, I'm not giving SCH enough credit.



Your full sentence doesn't really change the outcome people's answers.
#13 Dec 21 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Good
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SCH is actually a very good soloer, better than BLM in some ways. SCH and BLM work very well together, especially as SCH buffs a BLM and can contribute to the damage.

SCH allows you to make low man fights easier. For example I duoed as SCH and PLD/RDM, Operation Desert Swarm. Anything that can be grav'd/dotted etc can be done better by SCH on the whole, unless you need stun. SCH's dots and weather are **** handy.

That being said, for merits you'll want RDM or WHM for birds but SCHs go down a treat on Mt Z for BLMs, if you want to duo.

Level all 3? /grin

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#14 Dec 21 2009 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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I'll throw a few things out there for Whm also (since its my main Job)

Whm cannot Refresh, but we do have haste. We also have Devotion, which as a Galka, gets a Decent Boost, Now granted it starts on a 20 min timer, but its an Instant 200-300 Mp which can come in very useful, pretty much every 20 minutes. You also get the benefit of Shellra 5, the highest Magic Def in the game. Fully merited takes something like 27% magical Damage off. We also have Protectra 5, but thats only 5 Def more then Protectra 4, which both Sch and rdm can compare to.

Whm gets Regen 3, a Very useful and incredibly efficient tool, especially if merited and with Cleric's Briault.

We also have the "best" Barspells, even better with merits, AF2 pants, and Misery Up.

Never underestimate the usefulness of Cure 5 vs Cure 4 either.

As /Sch you'd have access to roughly a 200-300 Mp restore every 5-7 minutes with Sublimation as well as the other nifty /Sch tools.

Whm also has the Most melee potential out of the mage jobs, B+ Weapon and D shield Skill, paired with a Rdm offering them Phalanx 2, they can tank fairly decent.

However Rdm and Sch are Much More versatile, They can do more things, as they are not as focused, so its really up to you.

Whm is a Very focused job, you excell at the things you do well, while Rdm and Sch do a Bunch of things well, and excell at a few things.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 9:11am by dmhlucky
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