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Shamtotto Expansion Gear - Augments now up!Follow

#1 Oct 29 2009 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
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More Cure potency available... and movement speed!

[img=http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo149/eldelphia/FFXI/20091029ShantottoAugments.jpg]

HP+25, ENM +4 
MP-25, ENM -4 
Accuracy +7 
Attack +7 
Racc +7 
Ratt +7 
Eva +7 
MAB +4 
Macc+4 
Haste +3% 
Double Attack +2% 
Critical Hit Damage +3% 
Skillchain damage +5% 
Conserve TP +5 
Physical Damage Taken -4% 
Magical Critical Hit Damage +10% 
Magic Burst Damage +10% 
Kick Attacks +5 
Cure Potency +5% 
Sic and Ready Ability Delay -5 
Song Recast -3 
Barrage +1 
Elemental Siphon +20 
Phantom Roll ability delay -5 
Repair Potency +10% 
Waltz TP Cost -5 
Pet: Acc & Att +7 
Pet: Racc & Ratt +7 
Pet: Store TP+8, Subtle Blow +8 
Pet: Macc +7 
Movement Speed + 8% 
 


Base pants stats:

DEF:31 INT, MND, CHR +2


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#2 Oct 29 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Could be some decent WHM legs there. Macro them in with cure potency and -enmity. That way I don't have to look at how they don't match, and also don't lose the +haste from blessed for other spells.

I guess.
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#3 Oct 29 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Default
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Blessed and gaiters vs this... If you make this a Potency/Movement piece, you get worse curing pants than Blessed (no enmity reduction), and certainly worse movement speed gain than gaiters, but you save gil both ways. You can't really save inventory since you probably still would do haste cycles in blessed, so really you are just looking at a low-cost, weaker version of gaiters. Is that worth 10 bucks? I'm not so sure, since honestly I don't see me doing a heck of a lot on WHM with true 12% gaiters that I can't already do without... and these are not even that good. Are we supposed to be excited about these?

Just to clarify:
You aren't going to make these into better curing legs than blessed by any significant margin, and they will be strictly worse if you don't stack BOTH augments (meaning no movement bonus). How disappointing.
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#4 Oct 29 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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NatePrawdzik wrote:
You aren't going to make these into better curing legs than blessed by any significant margin, and they will be strictly worse if you don't stack BOTH augments (meaning no movement bonus). How disappointing.


At first glance, these look far better than blessed for curing to me. By switching from blessed to Tatsumaki Sitagoromo, for stats relevant to cure potency, you lose 4 mnd and gain 5% potency. There's absolutely no comparison there in terms of cure potency. Blessed does next to nothing for cure 1-4 and only adds a few HP to cure 5, while these new pants are half a noble's tunic in the leg slot.

Combine it with another augment, MP+25 and enmity-4, and all you lose by switching from blessed is enmity-1 and 3% haste. I think getting 5% cure potency is more than worth that sacrifice. These look to be the new best cure pants in the game.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 8:43am by Susanoh
#5 Oct 29 2009 at 7:14 AM Rating: Default
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50 more HP cured for every 1000 vs -1 enmity and the potential that you may have to wait 1 second more until the next cure... no thanks! I think that 5% potency is more exciting for epeen SS's in double-light weather on recently dead monks, than for actual in-game value. If you cure for less than 1000HP (which I normally do), then that 5% becomes even less exciting.

In other words, contrast the loss of 50HP (post-cure) to a potentially fatal 1 second delay (precure). Potency is even less important with our added Stoneskin effect, by the way, since our Cure V's have effectively picked up another 135HP protection on top of the natural HP we restore. In most situations, I think I'd rather take the haste and enmity reduction from blessed and let my tanks get some hate back by covering whatever my Cure V + Regen III doesn't.

Either the situation is crazy and you really need to spam cures, meaning blessed's reduced timer is superior, or the situation is pretty calm and your regen III will top them off anyway, with or without the 5% potency option.

If it didn't force you to take potency *or* enmity *or* haste (pick 2), then these would be a lot nicer.
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#6 Oct 29 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Why would you have to wait 1 second more until the next cure by switching out blessed? 3% haste should shave off less than 1/3 of the second from cure V (10 second recast). For every other cure, it'd be even less. For cure III, it'd shave off less than 1/5 of a second.

As for one enmity, maybe others have different experiences than I do (due to playing with different people, different events, etc.), but I very rarely pull hate off the tanks or damage dealers as it is. As for the few times I do, I'm not sure how often one enmity would have prevented it. The number of times 1 enmity prevents me from taking hate seems as if it'd be fairly low. On the other hand, adding cure potency would make my cures more potent, and more efficient, every single time.

Would/do you advocate swapping to goliard saio for cures? It's certainly a nice chunk of both haste and enmity- in one slot, but so far I've never come across a white mage who swaps it in over nobles for cures.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 9:57am by Susanoh
#7 Oct 29 2009 at 8:02 AM Rating: Default
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Your points are good. I guess what I'm saying is that it's still pretty close to a side-grade for a 10dollar, X amount of time investment that precludes getting anything else.
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#8 Oct 29 2009 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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This are absolutely amazing for those of us who will never own gaiters.

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#9 Oct 29 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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This are absolutely amazing for those of us who will never own gaiters.


This is what I'm struggling with. Even if the price comes down on gaiters, it'd have to hit half before I could think about em.

MP+25, ENM-4, Cure potency +5% are hands down the best curing piece but yes, you'd still have to carry Blessed.

If you have the gear to support it, is it completely ridiculous to take Cure Potency +5% and the movement speed on these? Losing MND, MP and -ENM?

I'm struggling with this because whilst WHM will always be my main the curing piece is good for RDM and SCH as well but the movement speed is good for all of my jobs except COR and would allow my BLM, RDM and SCH to do things they can't currently do and keep my WHM out of trouble in some situations.

I'm sitting on 30% cure potency already, 35% without Medicine ring and Healing feather is very attractive. I'm also sitting on a ton of -ENM gear and MP gear should I need it. Wondering if it's a ludicrous compromise to take the movement speed and the cure potency on the same legs.

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#10 Oct 29 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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What's killing me is that this is also a good macro curing piece for other jobs besides WHM - I'm getting the 5% boost on the pants not just for WHM, but for RDM as well, which doesn't have the advantage of my Aristo's tunic. Combined with the MKE hat, it's 8% potency that's available to my other jobs. That's almost a noble's tunic.
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#11 Oct 29 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Default
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SE just doomed every WHM to look exactly the same forever by introducing the most broken gear available for WHM, and the most easily obtained. This is easier to get than a yigit set. It's just kind of pathetic. Now we're all witches with stupid dragon pants, and I mean all. Every low level AH WHM can get access to any of this quite easily. Why even go to any events? Just send SE a check. Nashira, Marduk, AF+1, Campaign Set, SE just sh*ts all over it. Don't bother doing anything but going to the AH and doing the stupid mini-expansions. Beats everything else by a large margin.

Now that we've established that events are largely useless, might as well just quit because this is just getting stupid.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 2:44pm by JingWoo
#12 Oct 29 2009 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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By all means, quit. Saves the rest of us from the whining.
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#13 Oct 29 2009 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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eldelphia wrote:
If you have the gear to support it, is it completely ridiculous to take Cure Potency +5% and the movement speed on these? Losing MND, MP and -ENM?


I've actually been thinking about this. When I switched from Mirror Tiara to Selenian Cap: I lost a large; noticeable chunk of -Enmity.
Both from the actual stat and the extra enmity generation of higher Cures.

This are probably going to be the same. Losing Blessed Pants is going to cost me another 5 Enmity; which is going to put me at around 15ish -Enmity. That, on top of even more Cure hate. Eeep

I guess I'm going to need to bust the calculator and check. I could probably start using Errant Cape instead of a MND one; and carry the Trooper's Ring? This is going to put me at -16 MND, -15MP, +5% Cure potency and 4 -Enmity from what I'm currently using.

The -16MND puts a huge dent on the +5% Cure potency stat already. It ends up being more around +3%ish for Cure V?
Still, it does add 4 more -Enmity that is very welcome; specially if I'm going to start busting out 530~HP Cure IV's <_<

So yeah, at least it seems I can work out my build to include the +5% Cure pot, +Movement speed legs. Going to love being able to simply despawn mobs on my way :3






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#14 Oct 29 2009 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
SE just doomed every WHM to look exactly the same forever by introducing the most broken gear available for WHM, and the most easily obtained. This is easier to get than a yigit set. It's just kind of pathetic. Now we're all witches with stupid dragon pants, and I mean all. Every low level AH WHM can get access to any of this quite easily. Why even go to any events? Just send SE a check. Nashira, Marduk, AF+1, Campaign Set, SE just sh*ts all over it. Don't bother doing anything but going to the AH and doing the stupid mini-expansions. Beats everything else by a large margin.

Now that we've established that events are largely useless, might as well just quit because this is just getting stupid.


The funny thing is, if they replaced this gear with either something "useless" or nothing at all, there would instead be a post here ******** about how pointless the new missions are. SE can't win.

Also, if you haven't noticed, WHMs have all been looking the same for a very long time. Almost every 75 one I see is wearing Noble's or relic briault, Walmart, and Blessed, including my own.
#15 Oct 30 2009 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'm doing Cure Potency +5% and Movement Speed +8%.
I just can't justify wasting an oppertunity for movement speed on something as common as MP and enmity reduction (which we already have tons of from Blessed gear).

Course, I have a Novia earring, and even without the enmity down from Blessed pants, I'll still have a -20 enmity reduction. I also caculated out that if I somehow ever got Marduk's feet and finally finish Healer's cap +1, I'll have cure V doing 875 HP, cure IV doing 500, and cure III doing 250.

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#16 Oct 31 2009 at 7:17 PM Rating: Default
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Everyone gets so pumped about the new max cure.

Cure IV +20 or so
Cure V +30 or so
Enmity Increase of +5 or so
Haste -3%/-4%

Movement speed +8%.

That's what you are looking at if you swap from blessed to this. It might be worth it. I'm not saying it's not. I am saying however, don't obsess about your max cures and believe the reason it's so high is going to be this. It will add approximately what I listed up there, and that's it - the other 480 or 880 (or whatever) is something you already have and not worth including in the discussion.

You'll probably have to spend money on a novia (either buying one or not selling one) and/or mahatma cape, and/or something similar to make up for the lost enmity you get by using these, and that may also cost you more mind in the respective slot. (Depends on what you are swapping out.)

Is this an upgrade? Perhaps, but more for the movement than anything.

EDIT:
Non WHM jobs who don't have blessed maybe get more from this than we do, but then again they don't have Cure V and enmity reduction on Cure IV is even more important, maybe moreso than 20ish more HP cured...

Edited, Oct 31st 2009 8:25pm by NatePrawdzik
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#17 Nov 01 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmm... I'm thinking of adding Movement +8% and Phys. Damage -4%. The combination makes for a good <Run Away!> piece, plus useful for soloing on my BLM job too.

#18 Nov 01 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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There's something I miss.. you must forgive me but I'm still quite a noob..


Can't I just keep my blessed trousers on for Haste and macroing these pants with cures like the Cure Clogs, then switching back again to blessed? Windower macroes should not even be necessary for doing such a thing, the 6 lines should be enough.
Something like this:

/equip feet "Cure Clogs" 
/equip legs "Tatsumaki Sitagoromo" 
/ma "Cure III" <t> 
/wait 5 
/equip feet "Blessed Pumps" 
/equip legs "Blessed Trousers"


All you lose is -1 enmity, or -5 if you want movement speed (and since I'm a noob I can't figure why you could want it.. )

Where am I wrong? (°°')
#19 Nov 01 2009 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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Haste doesn't help the start of the spell, only the /recast - that's checked at the end of the spell. I'll try to explain.

START SPELL
Fast Cast - If you have this on, the spell should go off sooner.
Cure Clog - If you have this on, the spell should go off sooner (matters only if it's a Cure).
Haste - If you have this on, it does nothing.
Light/Dark Arts - If you have this on, the spell goes off sooner/later based on if you use the right type of spell.

END SPELL
Fast Cast - If you have this on, the /recast timer should be shorter.
Cure Clog - If you have this on, it does nothing (doesn't matter if it's a Cure).
Haste - If you have this on, /recast timer should be shorter.
MND, Enmity Down, Conserve MP, Cure Potency, etc - Benefits like these kick in if you finish the spell with them on.

Casting time
When you start a spell, there is that little bar at the top that shows you are casting it. At some point, your spell goes off. If you have no Fast Cast or Cure Clogs or Cure Speed merits or Light/Dark arts, then that bar has to fill all the way to 100% before it goes off. If you have something that makes you cast faster, then the spell goes off before 100%. The faster you are, the sooner it goes off. Notice I didn't mention Haste because Haste doesn't make you cast faster.

The Casting Speed bonuses work on a tiered system. What that means is that if you make yourself faster, your spell fires off faster only if it breaks a certain speed threshold. For the purposes of WHM, all we need to care about are two tiers in specific:

1) Cure Clogs + Light Arts + Cure speed Merits x 2 = Highest Tier (/sch sub)
2) Cure Clogs + Cure speed Merits x 5 = Highest Tier (no /sch sub)

If you routinely go /sch, you can therefore put merely 2 merits into Cure speed and not 5, freeing up 3 more to optimize other aspects of your job.

/recast timer
When you open your menu and see your spell greyed out because it's not ready to cast again, you are waiting on your /recast. You want that delay to be very short so that your spell goes white as soon as possible so that it's ready again. This is what Haste affects. Fast Cast also affects this because Fast cast affects everything. Cure Clogs don't affect this.

Since Cure Clogs affect the start of the spell, and Haste affects the end of the spell, you should start Cures with clogs on, and finish them with Haste (blessed) on (also, the -enmity and MND benefits).

Additional Stats
Stats like MND, -enmity, Conserve MP, Cure Potency, etc, all check at the END of the spell, not the start. Finish casting with these stats on when you can. As a result, you should start casting buffs in Rostrum Pumps, and finish casting in Blessed. The reason we don't finish the cast in Rostrum Pumps, even though it has Fast Cast (and that helps at the start and the end), is that Blessed's Haste is also going to help at the end, and in addition to that Haste, Blessed has -enmity, giving you a double-bonus.

EDIT: To the poster above, if you use the new pants for Cure Potency and movement speed, for example, then you have to choose between:
End spell in +Potency
End spell in Blessed (Haste, MND, -enmity)
You see now why it's problematic. You can't end the spell with 2 pairs of pants on.

Edited, Nov 1st 2009 5:48pm by NatePrawdzik
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#20 Nov 01 2009 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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I thought it was eventually determined that there wasn't a cap on cure casting timer and it was only the animation that was capped and also that the cap (if there is one) was different for curagas..?

I'm happy to be proven wrong, I remember the testing on cure casting time happening and then it being refuted. If it's been re-examined I'd love to know where...


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#21 Nov 01 2009 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm... going with my last known information. I will research where I got this so that perhaps we can figure out what the real deal is. (Doing LS events now so won't be able to reply for a bit.)
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#22 Nov 01 2009 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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It is now possible to test if there is a cap past 50% for Cure casting now; thanks to the Capricornian Robe (Which is actually a waist...). It gives an additional -15% Cure casting during campaign.

Anyone wants to volunteer to test it out? <_<
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#23 Nov 02 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Drakonite wrote:
It is now possible to test if there is a cap past 50% for Cure casting now; thanks to the Capricornian Robe (Which is actually a waist...). It gives an additional -15% Cure casting during campaign.

Anyone wants to volunteer to test it out? <_<

I suppose I can go pick one up and try tonight. I'll post results.
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#24 Nov 02 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seems people are chewing out the idea of +5% Cure Potency and +8% movement speed for two main reasons, loss of Haste and -Enmity from Blessed pants.

I can't honestly relate to the big issue with either, allow me to explain:

Haste will do nearly nothing for Cure's Recast (on account of it already being very low), and if your using Haste to lower recast timers of other spells (as well you should) just macro it in like you should all other Haste gear (If your like me, I macro in stuff like the Haste staff, walmart turban, and blessed mitts because they offer less than my regular curing gear) and use your regular gear for Cures (in addition to the lovely Cure clogs macro maneuver).

As for enmity, I've yet to really have any issues with stealing hate since pretty much before I hit 75. Tanks should beable to focus far more enmity on themselves than a WHM is ever likely to generate, provided their not stupid enough to spam Cure IV. Finally, if you do happen to take hate for whatever reason, 8% movement speed will help you a heck of alot more than -5 enmity.

If ya still find fault with 8% movement speed and rather go +25 MP and -4 enmity, tis all your business. But don't bring up Haste as a potencial augment because your too lazy to macro it in on spells you want to reduced recast times.

Also: Nexus Cape ftw

Edited for Style:

Quote:
Also, if you haven't noticed, WHMs have all been looking the same for a very long time. Almost every 75 one I see is wearing Noble's or relic briault, Walmart, and Blessed, including my own.


I wear my Healer's Cap (Gimp I know, still trying to get my item for the +1) And beyound all other justifications for the condom hat, yes beyond Mind +7, Enmity -1, HMP+1, MP + whatever, I wear it with pride cause it keeps my poor tarutaru ears nice and warm!

Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 1:00pm by Teiei
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#25 Nov 02 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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What are you all even talking about? The real question is:

Hexa Strike acc+7 atk+7
-or-
TP haste+3 acc+7

Would be an easy choice of haste+acc if I didn't already have blessed+1

To argue your points:
movement+8% is a nice convenience, but doesn't really let you do anything that you can't do at normal movement speed (mainly a blm/rdm/sch point), as any mob with enhanced movement speed has more than 8%.

cure potency+5% is meh imo. Like people have shown above, it's not a huge boost, and if there's even a debate as to whether they're better overall than blessed, why waste the piece on that?

Might also be good to note I should have Gullintani within the month, so I have kinda different priorities.

PS - yes, lolwhmmelee. I like to smash things. :)
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#26 Nov 02 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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So, if I understood well, I can't do the above macro because Haste gear is uneffective on a spell's recast time every time it's equipped after the spell itself has already landed off, right?

So equipping cure potency legs and switching to Haste legs after -and not before- the casting bar disappeared would be pretty useless?

If so, I would still keep the blessed trousers just for spells like Erase and Haste, and macro the new pants with cures...

Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 10:56pm by SIDDfromRagnarok
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