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#27 Oct 07 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Auspice is easiest to cast when you're fighting chariots already being wailed on with SB and penance.

Auspice is hardest to cast when you're feeding too much tp.

So when the fights are already going smoothly it can make them smoother *when using smart timing* and when you'ld really like to reduce tp attcks you'll prolly die trying.

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#28 Oct 08 2009 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I would like to say that there are many uses for it in endgame that will make a substansial difference, but the fact of the matter remains that many of the big monsters we fight have regain, or just spam tp moves. Now in areas like limbus, dynamis, and einherjar, I am using it before my haste cycle. (3 min haste, 3 min auspice)

The biggest reason I asked was because I was looking for other places where it made a big difference. Salvage is one of the few endgame places where it makes large difference. In sky it really doesn't matter. I mean I cast it when farming, but for gods there is really no point. And kirin... moving along.

Now for low manned events, like me and others have said, I have found this to make an impressive difference. The other day me, a nin/dnc, and a brd triod charby. The thing didn't really spam mealstrom much and the nin's health didn't drop below yellow but once.
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#29 Oct 09 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Auspice has only a tiny effect (10% TP reduction) which is barely noticed when you have a lot of players wailing on an enemy. For regular fights, Auspice is a waste of MP since the target is down quickly anyway, for tougher NM fights it's only useful if you have an alliance and a WHM in each party is casting it on a zerging team.

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It will also make you less busy by giving you more free time between TP moves
Ten percent less TP does not equal ten percent less healing. It basically means for every 100% TP you would normally feed it, the monster is getting 90%. The actual difference between TP moves is a second or two at best. If it was a significantly higher reduction (30% for example) then I would totally agree that Auspice is worth every bit of MP you spend on it in any given situation, but the low bonus as it stands makes it rather unnoticed save for it's additional effect with Afflatus Misery.

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Think of it this way: If everyone has Auspice up, one out of every 10 weaponskills the enemy does will never happen. I'd say that's worth the effort in most cases.
Very true, but bear in mind that the spell is self-cast only. This means running into the fire zone. Against imps this can mean getting hit by Amnesia or Silence, and against tougher targets it can mean being devastated by AoE nukes or attacks. That can make it difficult to keep on constantly, and against the targets it's most useful on you might find yourself taking considerable damage if careless.

I mostly cast it for the Enlight effect. If you seriously notice an effect in merit parties, then chances are the monsters are living too long to get decent merits anyway.

Edited, Oct 9th 2009 4:55am by Crystan
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#30 Oct 09 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I use it a lot. There is an issue with when to cast it, but **** it's not that difficult to wait for a TP move on a chariot, hit celerity and cast.
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#31 Oct 09 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Default
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I use it a lot. There is an issue with when to cast it, but **** it's not that difficult to wait for a TP move on a chariot, hit celerity and cast.


I absolutely would not be wasting stratagem charges for that... they all go towards Penury for Cure 5, for me.
#32 Oct 23 2009 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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really the only times I find myself using it is when I melee or on fights like charybdis where you want to feed it as little TP as possible
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#33 Oct 24 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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I absolutely would not be wasting stratagem charges for that... they all go towards Penury for Cure 5, for me.


Fine, but I'd rather be in and out of AoE range of a nasty chariot with AoE moves fast. I usually have a Balrahn's ring, aristo, brd and rdm, with refresh sanction - as well as having 8/8 MP merits and being hume ;) Oh and if relevant slots are unlocked, 30% cure potency. So with the meds in there, I don't run out of MP that often.

Outside of Salvage, I use Auspice most places and my strategems as I see fit ;)
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#34 Oct 24 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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But, Auspice and Discharge / Inertia Stream are the same range! So, if you aim it just right (depending on your melee(s) positioning), you could cast it on them without stepping in range of those TP moves.

Crisis averted!!! ^^;
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#35 Oct 28 2009 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Or, you can wait until after the boss uses a WS, then run close, auspice, run away?

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#36 Nov 01 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Beside of Subtle Blow, do Accuracy bonus and Enlight effects land on all the members of party or on the whm only?
#37 Nov 01 2009 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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do Accuracy bonus and Enlight effects land on all the members of party or on the whm only?


WHM only, and only while he has Misery up
#38 Nov 01 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Or, you can wait until after the boss uses a WS, then run close, auspice, run away?


Er yes, your point is what exactly? Sorry I didn't think we needed to add in something so patently obvious as this. No WHM with any sense runs in at any old time. Still takes time to cast...

Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 1:25am by eldelphia
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#39 Nov 11 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Someone said they don't bother with it in Salvage.

Fynlar wrote:
Yup; personally, for Salvage bosses, I wouldn't even be getting in range to cast Auspice. Discharge and Inertia Stream, particularly the former, are not things you want to have your healer hit by. In places like Nyzul you can get away with staying in range (and use Esuna) because the chariots are a lot weaker, but I wouldn't try it in Salvage.


No monster in salvage, to my knowledge, spams tp moves. You should have enough time to run in, cast, run out before getting hit.
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#40 Nov 11 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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...but you don't need to.

The moves they were talking about have the same radius as the spell.

Mob ----- Melee ----- WHM 
 
TP --------> 
 
            <-------- Auspice



You don't need to be in range of those TP moves ._.
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#41 Nov 11 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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no, it's not needed but those who can't judge distance (due to lack of distance plugin) should know that you can cast spells between TP moves >.>
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#42 Nov 11 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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I do it without relying on the distance plugin ... it's really not that hard with practice.^^

But the range of "safe overlap" will be roughly that very same size

...so anywhere from this:

Mob ---- MNK ---- WHM 
 
TP  -----------> 
      <---------- Auspice


...to this:

Mob ---------- MNK ---------- WHM 
 
TP  ----------->  <---------- Auspice


...where you're still out of range, but able to hit the melee.

So really, you don't need plugins, it's not hard :)

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to encourage this method, because it seems much easier (don't hafta time it) and safer (no risk of getting hit).

*granted, not all moves are the same radius as Auspice, but in many cases this is true^^
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#43Fynlar, Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 6:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That all depends on how many people you have on the mob. And when we have two pimped melee loaded up with Haste and various SV'd buffs (I'm assuming Marches are included) fighting the boss, it can and will spam. (Again, I have never had a COR in Salvage, so don't assume we're getting Monk's Roll, either.) Mobs get TP far, far faster than you think.
#44 Nov 11 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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And when we have two pimped melee loaded up with Haste and various SV'd buffs (I'm assuming Marches are included) fighting the boss, it can and will spam. (Again, I have never had a COR in Salvage, so don't assume we're getting Monk's Roll, either.) Mobs get TP far, far faster than you think.


They also get TP much, much slower than you think.

I'm sure the setup you described is pretty standard for Salvage. The TP-Spam is very manageable; even when Penury is off.
I have no clue what else could you be doing to fall into "TP Spam" territory.

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Even if I could, I'm smart enough to know that it wouldn't really affect things one way or the other and I might as well just save my time/MP on the inevitable cleanup.


I'll revert to my original question: Have you ever fought Battleclad Chariot? Because I can't believe anyone saying "It won't affect anything" that has also fought this NM.

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#45 Nov 11 2009 at 11:40 PM Rating: Default
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They also get TP much, much slower than you think.


Their rate of TP move usage says otherwise to me. And I'm not talking just about Salvage bosses, I'm talking about everything in the game that has TP moves.

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The TP-Spam is very manageable; even when Penury is off.


I never said it wasn't manageable. Their TP moves typically aren't what inflict the most damage, and that's partly why I don't bother with Auspice.

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I'll revert to my original question: Have you ever fought Battleclad Chariot? Because I can't believe anyone saying "It won't affect anything" that has also fought this NM.


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#46 Nov 12 2009 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only LBC


Alas, everything makes sense now. So why are you trying to convince us about your experiences of something that you have not experienced?

Let me explain to you: Battleclad Chariot is the kind of mob you do not want to zerg down.
Trying to kill it as fast as possible without giving heed to the more defensive tactics will only get you killed.

So this is a mob where you absolutely want to limit it's TP gain. It also happens to be a mob where everyone must absolutely stand at least 10' from your tanks (which happens to be Auspice's range...).


Also, most of chariots damage does come from TP moves: either trough direct damage or their after-effects. I addressed that on one of my earlier posts.

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#47Fynlar, Posted: Nov 12 2009 at 3:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Okay, sure. But I still believe that in my case, MP spent on Auspice would be MP better spent on cures and -nas, because Auspice alone pretty much does jack in terms of reducing the rate a mob will use TP moves when it's already capable of spamming (and this is not just true of Salvage bosses, it's the case of every single mob I've ever fought and tried Auspice on in a group setting, probably because I have never had the luxury of being able to actually try a full blown Subtle Blow setup on any of them).
#48 Nov 12 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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every single mob I've ever fought and tried Auspice on in a group setting


My point is that you have experienced 1 out of 4 chariot NM's. And judging by your posts: odds are you've fought it once or twice.

That isn't anywhere near enough experience to give out a full, educated review of the applications of Auspice for this situation. That's exactly like saying Monk's Roll is useless while regarding Salvage Chariots as non-existent.
You acknowledge it is useful there; why is it so hard to believe Auspice would be the same?

The fact is: Many groups out there plan their Salvage runs around Lower-TP gain tactics. Salvage is the #1 reason monks merit Penury; which would be regarded as a useless merit otherwise. If they can dip merits for an event, we can sure as **** spend 3 seconds and 48 MP casting Auspice.


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Not to mention the fact that right after the chariot does a TP move, I'm typically throwing Paralyna or Erase as well as readying a Cure for a potential big hit to come while shadows are down... not running in to cast an inconsequential buff.


I guess Haste is inconsequential too? Why try to lower our Monk's Utsusemi recast? Why try to Slow/Paralyze the Enemy? Why try to reduce it's TP spam? Why cast Protects?
They are all "Inconsequential" by your logic.

And me and others have already commented on "running in to cast buffs"...

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#49 Nov 12 2009 at 8:47 AM Rating: Default
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My point is that you have experienced 1 out of 4 chariot NM's. And judging by your posts: odds are you've fought it once or twice.


I'd estimate more about 10 times, about half of which were losses due to not getting all 10 of the gears killed and eventually getting owned by Homing Missile bs. But again, I'm not interested in playing Salvage e-peen with you. I've seen Discoid, Brainjack, all that gimmicky stuff, and once you know how to handle each one properly they really aren't all so much different from each other as you are making it sound.

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That isn't anywhere near enough experience to give out a full, educated review of the applications of Auspice for this situation.


Yeah it is. Auspice works (as much as that's worth) on more things than just Salvage bosses. In just about every case, casting the spell has not reduced the average amount of TP moves a mob has gotten to use in its lifetime, therefore I no longer cast it. If something is easy enough such that I'm bored and looking for something to do, I will cast Auspice and then join in the melee with Misery up. If it's not that easy, my MP is better spent elsewhere.

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The fact is: Many groups out there plan their Salvage runs around Lower-TP gain tactics. Salvage is the #1 reason monks merit Penury; which would be regarded as a useless merit otherwise. If they can dip merits for an event, we can sure as **** spend 3 seconds and 48 MP casting Auspice.


Actually, MNKs merit that because their other group 2s are sh*t. Mantra's only real purpose is for helping zerg DRKs, and Formless Strikes is generally agreed upon to not be worth more than one point to have it unlocked. Don't act like they're making some sacrifice for something they should have anyway to begin with.

Also, Auspice is not "just" 44/48 MP over the course of a Salvage boss fight, unless your boss fight takes 3 minutes or less. Taking the average duration of my fights into account it would probably take nearly 250-300 MP or so (depending on CMP procs) for me to maintain Auspice throughout, which to me is a significant chunk. All my MP goes toward Cure 5 and -na spam, and I often have had MP trouble later in these fights once the Soul Voice Ballads are gone.

Maybe you can afford such a thing, but in my case, there was no room in my repertoire for Auspice in those fights. Come to think of it, the melees weren't even always in the same party as me, so Auspice wouldn't be hitting them anyway.

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I guess Haste is inconsequential too? Why try to lower our Monk's Utsusemi recast? Why try to Slow/Paralyze the Enemy? Why try to reduce it's TP spam? Why cast Protects?
They are all "Inconsequential" by your logic.


Horrid analogy, not even going to dignify this with a further response.

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And me and others have already commented on "running in to cast buffs"...


It honestly doesn't matter to me whether or not you can space things out properly so you don't get AoE'd (even though I honestly don't think I could have, because I was still getting AoE'd by some stuff whenever I was not taking care to stand back as far as possible); I still view Auspice generally as a waste of MP and time that's better spent toward Cures, -nas, Haste...

Edited, Nov 12th 2009 9:53am by Fynlar
#50 Nov 12 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Auspice uses


Fireworks display.
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#51 Nov 12 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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I'd estimate more about 10 times, about half of which were losses due to not getting all 10 of the gears killed and eventually getting owned by Homing Missile bs.


You know, this "Homing Missile bs" is also easily handled by reducing it's TP spam.

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Yeah it is. Auspice works (as much as that's worth) on more things than just Salvage bosses. In just about every case, casting the spell has not reduced the average amount of TP moves a mob has gotten to use in its lifetime, therefore I no longer cast it. If something is easy enough such that I'm bored and looking for something to do, I will cast Auspice and then join in the melee with Misery up. If it's not that easy, my MP is better spent elsewhere.


No it is not. You yourself aknowledged you've never tried the Monk/Penury/Auspice setup before.

You're passing your experiences with a very differents scenario as true for all scenarios. This is scientifically wrong. On top of being exprimentally wrong.

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Also, Auspice is not "just" 44/48 MP over the course of a Salvage boss fight, unless your boss fight takes 3 minutes or less. Taking the average duration of my fights into account it would probably take nearly 250-300 MP or so (depending on CMP procs) for me to maintain Auspice throughout, which to me is a significant chunk. All my MP goes toward Cure 5 and -na spam, and I often have had MP trouble later in these fights once the Soul Voice Ballads are gone.


Math says hi. Already addressed why this point is wrong before: Auspice will always pay itself against this mobs; always. The same way Slow and Paralyze pay for themsleves.

If you can not understand this basic concept I don't know what to tell you.

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Horrid analogy, not even going to dignify this with a further response.


This is you going "lalalalalala I can't hear you".

What Auspice brings to the table is extremly close to what Haste brings to the table defensive-wise.

What are the effects of lower recasts on Utsusemi? Taking less damage.
What are the effects of lower Enemy TP gain? Taking less damage.

Is this really such a hard concept to understand? Or do I need to elaborate on why is it a good idea to Paralyze/Slow as well?

Inbefore"Idontusehaste"argument

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