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Auspice uses.Follow

#1 Oct 03 2009 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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General question to the whm community. What uses have you found auspice to be useful for?

I have noticed a difference when using auspice in merits, and have definitely noticed a difference in low man scenarios. My question is for endgame.

Has anyone really noticed a difference when using or having auspice used on them in endgame?
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#2 Oct 04 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Default
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I only use it for a gimpy Enlight. The STP is too ineffectual for almost any situation (as the old adage goes, Subtle Blow is subtle, particularly if you've got 3 or more melees on your target), and is just an extra expense of MP that'd just be better saved toward typical WHM roles.

Edited, Oct 4th 2009 11:34am by Fynlar
#3 Oct 04 2009 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's pretty awesome in Salvage for Chariots and Gears. It really makes a difference.

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#4 Oct 04 2009 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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I don't do Salvage so I've never used it outside of solo. Some WHMs I've seen insist on putting it up in, like, Nyzul, which is ridiculous.
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#5 Oct 04 2009 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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Really it depends on how many melee you have whacking the thing, as well as the mob itself. Melee burning Kirin (TP regen+ 12 melees), fuggedaboutit. Low manning some NM with dangerous TP moves, (Joytoy NM) cast away. Salvage bosses, **** straight.
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#6 Oct 04 2009 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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I use it obsessively. It's next to my Sublimation macro, and on the same key one palette up from my Barspell macro, so it's easy to reach.

I notice a difference on boss fights, especially if all parties have a white mage that uses it. If it delays the TP moves of the boss even for a few seconds it can make a rough fight go more smoothly.

Does anyone know if it affects Ranged Attacks as well? Today while fighting Gulool Ja Ja I had the ranger party, and I kept Auspice on them just in case, but now I wonder if it was doing anything.

Edited, Oct 4th 2009 5:01pm by catwho
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#7 Oct 04 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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If the enemy/enemies in question do not have auto-regain, I see no reason why it shouldn't be used in almost every battle situation.

It is an AoE spell that costs little more than a single Haste, and has the same duration. And although it may seem rather weak, I find that it drasticly cuts down on the TP moves an enemy is able to ready. The effect is only magnified when used in a party with several melees.

It's true that Auspice isn't some god spell that nulls out all TP gain by the enemy, but the casting time, MP cost, range, and duration are such a drop in the bucket that there really is no reason not to use it. In all likelyhood, the MP spent on the spell will save a great amount more from lowering the enemy's TP attack frequency.

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Does anyone know if it affects Ranged Attacks as well? Today while fighting Gulool Ja Ja I had the ranger party, and I kept Auspice on them just in case, but now I wonder if it was doing anything.


As far as I know, Subtle Blows and by extention Auspice, effects the TP given by all attacks, including magic spells.

Edited, Oct 4th 2009 8:23pm by Teiei
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#8 Oct 05 2009 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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So far, i have found a pretty constant use for it on Dyna Nms, Chary, and on other random things for the Enlight/Acc+ after a miss.

Auspice is a Set 10% less TP the mobs will gain, and like said, if the mob had nasty TP moves, 10% less of them, can make a Huge difference.
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#9 Oct 05 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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As was mentioned, use your discretion. Honestly the effect it has is relatively minute enough (like a COR hitting a 2 on MNK roll) that I think people who claim to visually perceive the benefit it gives are probably imagining it. However in situations where every bit help such as chariots, low-manning things, or anywhere a mob's TP move might mean the difference between success and failure, you should probably throw it out there. In any other situation I find it's not worth the MP or casting time, and even more importantly, not worth the risk of having to run into AOE range for a few seconds.
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#10 Oct 05 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Default
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Yup; personally, for Salvage bosses, I wouldn't even be getting in range to cast Auspice. Discharge and Inertia Stream, particularly the former, are not things you want to have your healer hit by. In places like Nyzul you can get away with staying in range (and use Esuna) because the chariots are a lot weaker, but I wouldn't try it in Salvage.

Edited, Oct 5th 2009 11:10am by Fynlar
#11 Oct 05 2009 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I abuse Auspice pretty heavily. The effect is small, but WHM has taught me over and over that it doesn't take much in this game to turn the tide of a battle. As little as 1% or 2% difference on a single factor can make or break the fight.

The only scenarios where I won't use it are:
1. When the AOE is too bad to risk it. Salvage bosses are a great example, I won't bother on them, although any lesser chariot I will. HNM like Cerberus are another great example of when it's just too risky.
2. When it just wouldn't matter. Either the mobs die too fast for it to matter, such as Nyzul Isle; or there are simply too many melees beating on it for it to matter, such as a zerg fight or Dynamis/Einherjar where there are a ton of people beating on one mob.

Any situation outside those 2, Auspice is up full-time.
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#12 Oct 05 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with catwho and perg. I've found the spell quite effective. There are times when it's best not to risk it, sure, but there are plenty of times when it's great. Keep in mind that it stacks with other forms of subtle blow.

As far as TP given by damaging magical spells, I'm not sure if subtle blow effects it. I'll test it when I get off work tonight to see.

Something I'm personally curious about, however, is if there's a cap on subtle blow. I suppose a. MNK would be the best job for testing this.
#13 Oct 05 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Something I'm personally curious about, however, is if there's a cap on subtle blow. I suppose a. MNK would be the best job for testing this.


That's a good point too. Supposedly it caps at +50, so a level 75 MNK (moreso a Black Belt, Rajas etc. MNK) will almost certainly be hitting the cap if you have a COR. More reason not to risk it on Chariots.
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#14 Oct 05 2009 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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For a taru in campaign it results in a huge, HUGE boost to damage :D

The way I see it is if you can almost die while casting it, it's probably worth it, and for anything where you can actually die casting it you need your timing to judge its usefulness. Those are TP attacks that if you can even reduce 1 out of 20 or more it can justify the little mp it cost, especially if you're trying to bounce things around on shadows.

The galka whm seemed fond of it in salvage, though if I ever went whm to salvage I would probably not since I die in 2 hits no matter what.
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#15 Oct 05 2009 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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As far as TP given by damaging magical spells, I'm not sure if subtle blow effects it. I'll test it when I get off work tonight to see.


It does. Many RDM/NINs have noted that it takes more than 10 Bios to give a mob enough TP to use a move (assuming they are playing defensively flawless and not getting hit for damage at all), and this is because of the Subtle Blow trait from their sub.
#16 Oct 05 2009 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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A bit off topic on the subtle blow, but has anyone noticed double attacking while using auspice and misery? I thought I had my brutal earring equipped, but it was in my moghouse. It might just be lag, but I plan to test using a higher delay weapon.
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#17 Oct 05 2009 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Chariot's shouldn't AoE you while you cast buffs.
There is a sweetspot where you can cast it outside it's AoE range and still hit the DD's (Inertia And Discharge are centered around the Chariot, not the Targets).

And besides; you can just time your buffs between TP moves. If you're doing things right (Like keeping Auspice/Penance up), you can perfectly do 2 quick buffs between TP Moves. This is a very common practice, even for Melees.

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#18 Oct 05 2009 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Even if I could get away with it, Auspice alone wouldn't have been worth the time or MP to me. There were typically no MNKs or CORs on my runs, so I doubt any noticeable difference would have been made by Auspice alone considering how I've yet to see it make a difference on anything else. I get the feeling that a lot of people here still aren't quite aware of just how fast mobs TP... you pretty much need Penance and a good Monk's Roll to get a noteworthy amount of STP, and even with all that, stick enough melee on the mob and it will be pretty much as if all that STP weren't even there anyways.

I prefer staying back anyway, because the chariots are capable of doing very sudden high damage so my finger stays on the Cure 5 trigger, and whenever I was not paying attention and maintaining max distance, I would always get blasted by some AoE.
#19 Oct 06 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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There is no double attack on Auspice, its a Subtle Blow +10% and an Acc Boost after a miss and Enlight Effect with Misery Active.

It was most likely lag if you didn't have brutal on you.
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#20 Oct 06 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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That's a good point too. Supposedly it caps at +50, so a level 75 MNK (moreso a Black Belt, Rajas etc. MNK) will almost certainly be hitting the cap if you have a COR. More reason not to risk it on Chariots.
I discussed this a while ago, but here goes again.

Subtle Blow caps out at +50. A pimped out MNK/NIN in Salvage will have the following by themselves.

Subtle Blow IV: +20 SB
Black Belt: +5 SB
Rajas Ring: +5 SB
Melee Gloves: +4 SB (Usu Hands: +5 SB)
Only melee gloves is a compormise over the normal gear a MNK would use, and a good compromise at that.
Giving +34 SB.

Auspice gives +10 SB, bringing the total up to +44 SB.
Monks Roll from a COR will give +20 SB at the very least, bringing a MNK well above cap. HOWEVER, a COR can provide more than just Chaos Roll. Auspice however, doesn't replace anything else a WHM gives.

All said, I'd rather take Auspice and two DD rolls, than 1 DD roll, and +6 Subtle Blow.

In short, if you do Salvage bosses with 2 MNKs rotating Penance, then you need to learn how to run in between TP moves and recast Auspice. It WILL help, and the possibility of death to the WHM is less than ppl here make it out to be if done carefully.
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#21 Oct 06 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
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In short, if you do Salvage bosses with 2 MNKs rotating Penance, then you need to learn how to run in between TP moves and recast Auspice.


If you're doing that you're already fighting them in easy mode as far as I'm concerned. Why does anyone NEED to know how to do this, particularly when the setup worked just fine in the past?
#22 Oct 06 2009 at 9:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why does anyone NEED to know how to do this, particularly when the setup worked just fine in the past?
Indeed. Let's go back to 90 minute Kirin kite kills. It worked well in the past.

Let's go back to exping in Ro'Meave at Moon. It worked well in the past.

Do you really need me to go on? It makes things even EASIER. Not just on the Monks, but on the entire party. It's called progress.
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#23Fynlar, Posted: Oct 07 2009 at 12:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think "90 min Kirin kill -> 30 sec Kirin kill" is really quite a level comparison here (technically speaking, Auspice is helping your killing speed by slim to nothing), not to mention the fact I still think you're way overhyping the spell's effect. It doesn't come without costs, and I'm not just talking about the MP cost. I don't think the chariots are particularly hard if your group is solid and smart, but nevertheless, the healer role is pretty stressful, and I am almost constantly either churning out Cure5/Paralyna/Erase or being on the ready to cast one of those. I don't want to be running in casting a spell (that does take noticeably longer to put up than a Barspell does, and also will not really be saving any lives like a Barspell would) during a moment when I suddenly might have to shift gears and throw a Cure 5.
#24 Oct 07 2009 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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The thing is, you may think the bosses are on easy mode with 2 MNKs and a COR, but when you have a total of 6-7 ppl present, (MNK/NINx2, BRD, COR, WHM and/or RDM, THF), every little bit helps. Since you only have 2 ppl beating on the boss (THF is there for feint, TH on previous floor NMs, and occasional TA WS), having even one MNK die can easily spell doom. Auspice is not overly dangerous to run in and cast, and it does help. You may want to trust someone who's actually DONE it.

I'll grant you the Kirin example was rather a stretch, but as I said I could go on.

Repose? Why bother, we've done fine without it in the past.
Solace? Bah, I've done events for years without it.
Sub SCH? ***** that, 1 mp/tic auto-refresh and avatars worked for me.

Auspice is merely another tool. Use it when it you can, and it's sensible. After all, you're a WHM. If you don't notice when a mob uses AoE to know when it's safe to head in (remember, it isn't gaining TP uber fast like if 12 ppl are hitting it), then there may be a bigger issue.
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#25 Oct 07 2009 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
It doesn't come without costs, and I'm not just talking about the MP cost.

At the same time, let's not totally discount the MP cost either. It costs 48 MP, which is similar to adding one more person to your Haste cycle. The MP adds up very quickly. Over a 30-minute fight that's 480 MP. Auspice is not cheap; at least, not barspell cheap.

Fynlar wrote:
I don't want to be running in casting a spell (that does take noticeably longer to put up than a Barspell does, and also will not really be saving any lives like a Barspell would) during a moment when I suddenly might have to shift gears and throw a Cure 5.

I do concur with this statement, and it's why I think Auspice isn't necessary on fights with particularly nasty AOE. I used to do it anyway, waiting for a gap in the damage so I can run in and cast it before running away again. It's viable, you can do it, even on really nasty stuff like Cerberus if you're smart about it... but it's risky no matter how good you are. A risk that I ultimately decided I wasn't comfortable with. Not because of the risk of being hit by AOE while doing it, but because of the risk of the party needing healing while I'm doing it.

I recall one particular Jailer of Love where I was in the DD party, and just as I had run in and hit the macro to start casting Auspice, a DRK in my party pulled hate and started getting raped. By the time my Auspice animation was done to the point of allowing me to start casting another spell, this person was already at less than 150 HP. I tried to Cure him but never even got the cast started. He died too fast. Even Martyr wouldn't have been fast enough. I then took an AOE to the face from still being in range because I never had time to run back yet. Sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are, if things happen at a bad time then there's nothing you can do. The more proactive spells you have on your plate (Haste, Barspell, Auspice, etc), the less responsive you will be with reactive spells (Cures, -na spells, etc). There is a direct impact on your ability to save lives.

Fynlar wrote:
In short, if your melee isn't loaded with Subtle Blow already, Auspice won't really change much.
If your melee is already loaded with Subtle Blow, adding Auspice... won't really change much.
It's just an ineffectual spell.

Of course it isn't an extremely effective spell, but it does work. It might not delay his first few weaponskills, but as the battle goes on you will have significantly less weaponskills to deal with if you use this spell frequently. Think of it this way: If everyone has Auspice up, one out of every 10 weaponskills the enemy does will never happen. I'd say that's worth the effort in most cases.
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#26 Oct 07 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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If anyone thinks Auspice would be enough to change that, they are smoking something fierce. If anything, I'll end up spending MORE MP and busying myself even more trying to add it into my repertoire.


You've got it backwards. When fighting things like Gears and Chariots, Auspice will always pay itself by less curing needed in the long run; and might even improve your kill speed. It will also make you less busy by giving you more free time between TP moves.



Tanking Chariots with Elegy + Slow on isn't something extremely hard as far as regular hits go. It's the TP moves that are crippling.
All of the TP moves remove shadows and cause adverse effects. Most of the damage done by chariots comes from the hits following a TP move.

So reducing this TP move spam will not only reduce the damage taken by your DD's; but it will reduce the number of Utsusemi casts, increasing your killing speed.

And another small detail about Auspice: Like everything in this game that subtracts (+Haste, -Damage Taken, -Enmity), Subtle Blow has increasing returns. The more you have the more noticeable it is.


Besides; none of you have mentioned Battleclad Chariot. If you've ever done this fight before; you'd know just how important is to keep it's TP gain at minimun. And the "I want to be out of range" excuse doesn't apply, as you should all be within 10' of your tanks.

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#27 Oct 07 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Auspice is easiest to cast when you're fighting chariots already being wailed on with SB and penance.

Auspice is hardest to cast when you're feeding too much tp.

So when the fights are already going smoothly it can make them smoother *when using smart timing* and when you'ld really like to reduce tp attcks you'll prolly die trying.

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#28 Oct 08 2009 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I would like to say that there are many uses for it in endgame that will make a substansial difference, but the fact of the matter remains that many of the big monsters we fight have regain, or just spam tp moves. Now in areas like limbus, dynamis, and einherjar, I am using it before my haste cycle. (3 min haste, 3 min auspice)

The biggest reason I asked was because I was looking for other places where it made a big difference. Salvage is one of the few endgame places where it makes large difference. In sky it really doesn't matter. I mean I cast it when farming, but for gods there is really no point. And kirin... moving along.

Now for low manned events, like me and others have said, I have found this to make an impressive difference. The other day me, a nin/dnc, and a brd triod charby. The thing didn't really spam mealstrom much and the nin's health didn't drop below yellow but once.
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#29 Oct 09 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Auspice has only a tiny effect (10% TP reduction) which is barely noticed when you have a lot of players wailing on an enemy. For regular fights, Auspice is a waste of MP since the target is down quickly anyway, for tougher NM fights it's only useful if you have an alliance and a WHM in each party is casting it on a zerging team.

Quote:
It will also make you less busy by giving you more free time between TP moves
Ten percent less TP does not equal ten percent less healing. It basically means for every 100% TP you would normally feed it, the monster is getting 90%. The actual difference between TP moves is a second or two at best. If it was a significantly higher reduction (30% for example) then I would totally agree that Auspice is worth every bit of MP you spend on it in any given situation, but the low bonus as it stands makes it rather unnoticed save for it's additional effect with Afflatus Misery.

Quote:
Think of it this way: If everyone has Auspice up, one out of every 10 weaponskills the enemy does will never happen. I'd say that's worth the effort in most cases.
Very true, but bear in mind that the spell is self-cast only. This means running into the fire zone. Against imps this can mean getting hit by Amnesia or Silence, and against tougher targets it can mean being devastated by AoE nukes or attacks. That can make it difficult to keep on constantly, and against the targets it's most useful on you might find yourself taking considerable damage if careless.

I mostly cast it for the Enlight effect. If you seriously notice an effect in merit parties, then chances are the monsters are living too long to get decent merits anyway.

Edited, Oct 9th 2009 4:55am by Crystan
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#30 Oct 09 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I use it a lot. There is an issue with when to cast it, but **** it's not that difficult to wait for a TP move on a chariot, hit celerity and cast.
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#31 Oct 09 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Default
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I use it a lot. There is an issue with when to cast it, but **** it's not that difficult to wait for a TP move on a chariot, hit celerity and cast.


I absolutely would not be wasting stratagem charges for that... they all go towards Penury for Cure 5, for me.
#32 Oct 23 2009 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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really the only times I find myself using it is when I melee or on fights like charybdis where you want to feed it as little TP as possible
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#33 Oct 24 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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I absolutely would not be wasting stratagem charges for that... they all go towards Penury for Cure 5, for me.


Fine, but I'd rather be in and out of AoE range of a nasty chariot with AoE moves fast. I usually have a Balrahn's ring, aristo, brd and rdm, with refresh sanction - as well as having 8/8 MP merits and being hume ;) Oh and if relevant slots are unlocked, 30% cure potency. So with the meds in there, I don't run out of MP that often.

Outside of Salvage, I use Auspice most places and my strategems as I see fit ;)
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#34 Oct 24 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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But, Auspice and Discharge / Inertia Stream are the same range! So, if you aim it just right (depending on your melee(s) positioning), you could cast it on them without stepping in range of those TP moves.

Crisis averted!!! ^^;
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#35 Oct 28 2009 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Or, you can wait until after the boss uses a WS, then run close, auspice, run away?

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#36 Nov 01 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Beside of Subtle Blow, do Accuracy bonus and Enlight effects land on all the members of party or on the whm only?
#37 Nov 01 2009 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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do Accuracy bonus and Enlight effects land on all the members of party or on the whm only?


WHM only, and only while he has Misery up
#38 Nov 01 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Or, you can wait until after the boss uses a WS, then run close, auspice, run away?


Er yes, your point is what exactly? Sorry I didn't think we needed to add in something so patently obvious as this. No WHM with any sense runs in at any old time. Still takes time to cast...

Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 1:25am by eldelphia
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#39 Nov 11 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Someone said they don't bother with it in Salvage.

Fynlar wrote:
Yup; personally, for Salvage bosses, I wouldn't even be getting in range to cast Auspice. Discharge and Inertia Stream, particularly the former, are not things you want to have your healer hit by. In places like Nyzul you can get away with staying in range (and use Esuna) because the chariots are a lot weaker, but I wouldn't try it in Salvage.


No monster in salvage, to my knowledge, spams tp moves. You should have enough time to run in, cast, run out before getting hit.
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#40 Nov 11 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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...but you don't need to.

The moves they were talking about have the same radius as the spell.

Mob ----- Melee ----- WHM 
 
TP --------> 
 
            <-------- Auspice



You don't need to be in range of those TP moves ._.
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#41 Nov 11 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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no, it's not needed but those who can't judge distance (due to lack of distance plugin) should know that you can cast spells between TP moves >.>
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#42 Nov 11 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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I do it without relying on the distance plugin ... it's really not that hard with practice.^^

But the range of "safe overlap" will be roughly that very same size

...so anywhere from this:

Mob ---- MNK ---- WHM 
 
TP  -----------> 
      <---------- Auspice


...to this:

Mob ---------- MNK ---------- WHM 
 
TP  ----------->  <---------- Auspice


...where you're still out of range, but able to hit the melee.

So really, you don't need plugins, it's not hard :)

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to encourage this method, because it seems much easier (don't hafta time it) and safer (no risk of getting hit).

*granted, not all moves are the same radius as Auspice, but in many cases this is true^^
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#43Fynlar, Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 6:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That all depends on how many people you have on the mob. And when we have two pimped melee loaded up with Haste and various SV'd buffs (I'm assuming Marches are included) fighting the boss, it can and will spam. (Again, I have never had a COR in Salvage, so don't assume we're getting Monk's Roll, either.) Mobs get TP far, far faster than you think.
#44 Nov 11 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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And when we have two pimped melee loaded up with Haste and various SV'd buffs (I'm assuming Marches are included) fighting the boss, it can and will spam. (Again, I have never had a COR in Salvage, so don't assume we're getting Monk's Roll, either.) Mobs get TP far, far faster than you think.


They also get TP much, much slower than you think.

I'm sure the setup you described is pretty standard for Salvage. The TP-Spam is very manageable; even when Penury is off.
I have no clue what else could you be doing to fall into "TP Spam" territory.

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Even if I could, I'm smart enough to know that it wouldn't really affect things one way or the other and I might as well just save my time/MP on the inevitable cleanup.


I'll revert to my original question: Have you ever fought Battleclad Chariot? Because I can't believe anyone saying "It won't affect anything" that has also fought this NM.

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#45 Nov 11 2009 at 11:40 PM Rating: Default
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They also get TP much, much slower than you think.


Their rate of TP move usage says otherwise to me. And I'm not talking just about Salvage bosses, I'm talking about everything in the game that has TP moves.

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The TP-Spam is very manageable; even when Penury is off.


I never said it wasn't manageable. Their TP moves typically aren't what inflict the most damage, and that's partly why I don't bother with Auspice.

Quote:
I'll revert to my original question: Have you ever fought Battleclad Chariot? Because I can't believe anyone saying "It won't affect anything" that has also fought this NM.


Only LBC
#46 Nov 12 2009 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only LBC


Alas, everything makes sense now. So why are you trying to convince us about your experiences of something that you have not experienced?

Let me explain to you: Battleclad Chariot is the kind of mob you do not want to zerg down.
Trying to kill it as fast as possible without giving heed to the more defensive tactics will only get you killed.

So this is a mob where you absolutely want to limit it's TP gain. It also happens to be a mob where everyone must absolutely stand at least 10' from your tanks (which happens to be Auspice's range...).


Also, most of chariots damage does come from TP moves: either trough direct damage or their after-effects. I addressed that on one of my earlier posts.

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#47Fynlar, Posted: Nov 12 2009 at 3:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Okay, sure. But I still believe that in my case, MP spent on Auspice would be MP better spent on cures and -nas, because Auspice alone pretty much does jack in terms of reducing the rate a mob will use TP moves when it's already capable of spamming (and this is not just true of Salvage bosses, it's the case of every single mob I've ever fought and tried Auspice on in a group setting, probably because I have never had the luxury of being able to actually try a full blown Subtle Blow setup on any of them).
#48 Nov 12 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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every single mob I've ever fought and tried Auspice on in a group setting


My point is that you have experienced 1 out of 4 chariot NM's. And judging by your posts: odds are you've fought it once or twice.

That isn't anywhere near enough experience to give out a full, educated review of the applications of Auspice for this situation. That's exactly like saying Monk's Roll is useless while regarding Salvage Chariots as non-existent.
You acknowledge it is useful there; why is it so hard to believe Auspice would be the same?

The fact is: Many groups out there plan their Salvage runs around Lower-TP gain tactics. Salvage is the #1 reason monks merit Penury; which would be regarded as a useless merit otherwise. If they can dip merits for an event, we can sure as **** spend 3 seconds and 48 MP casting Auspice.


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Not to mention the fact that right after the chariot does a TP move, I'm typically throwing Paralyna or Erase as well as readying a Cure for a potential big hit to come while shadows are down... not running in to cast an inconsequential buff.


I guess Haste is inconsequential too? Why try to lower our Monk's Utsusemi recast? Why try to Slow/Paralyze the Enemy? Why try to reduce it's TP spam? Why cast Protects?
They are all "Inconsequential" by your logic.

And me and others have already commented on "running in to cast buffs"...

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#49 Nov 12 2009 at 8:47 AM Rating: Default
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My point is that you have experienced 1 out of 4 chariot NM's. And judging by your posts: odds are you've fought it once or twice.


I'd estimate more about 10 times, about half of which were losses due to not getting all 10 of the gears killed and eventually getting owned by Homing Missile bs. But again, I'm not interested in playing Salvage e-peen with you. I've seen Discoid, Brainjack, all that gimmicky stuff, and once you know how to handle each one properly they really aren't all so much different from each other as you are making it sound.

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That isn't anywhere near enough experience to give out a full, educated review of the applications of Auspice for this situation.


Yeah it is. Auspice works (as much as that's worth) on more things than just Salvage bosses. In just about every case, casting the spell has not reduced the average amount of TP moves a mob has gotten to use in its lifetime, therefore I no longer cast it. If something is easy enough such that I'm bored and looking for something to do, I will cast Auspice and then join in the melee with Misery up. If it's not that easy, my MP is better spent elsewhere.

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The fact is: Many groups out there plan their Salvage runs around Lower-TP gain tactics. Salvage is the #1 reason monks merit Penury; which would be regarded as a useless merit otherwise. If they can dip merits for an event, we can sure as **** spend 3 seconds and 48 MP casting Auspice.


Actually, MNKs merit that because their other group 2s are sh*t. Mantra's only real purpose is for helping zerg DRKs, and Formless Strikes is generally agreed upon to not be worth more than one point to have it unlocked. Don't act like they're making some sacrifice for something they should have anyway to begin with.

Also, Auspice is not "just" 44/48 MP over the course of a Salvage boss fight, unless your boss fight takes 3 minutes or less. Taking the average duration of my fights into account it would probably take nearly 250-300 MP or so (depending on CMP procs) for me to maintain Auspice throughout, which to me is a significant chunk. All my MP goes toward Cure 5 and -na spam, and I often have had MP trouble later in these fights once the Soul Voice Ballads are gone.

Maybe you can afford such a thing, but in my case, there was no room in my repertoire for Auspice in those fights. Come to think of it, the melees weren't even always in the same party as me, so Auspice wouldn't be hitting them anyway.

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I guess Haste is inconsequential too? Why try to lower our Monk's Utsusemi recast? Why try to Slow/Paralyze the Enemy? Why try to reduce it's TP spam? Why cast Protects?
They are all "Inconsequential" by your logic.


Horrid analogy, not even going to dignify this with a further response.

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And me and others have already commented on "running in to cast buffs"...


It honestly doesn't matter to me whether or not you can space things out properly so you don't get AoE'd (even though I honestly don't think I could have, because I was still getting AoE'd by some stuff whenever I was not taking care to stand back as far as possible); I still view Auspice generally as a waste of MP and time that's better spent toward Cures, -nas, Haste...

Edited, Nov 12th 2009 9:53am by Fynlar
#50 Nov 12 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Auspice uses


Fireworks display.
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#51 Nov 12 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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I'd estimate more about 10 times, about half of which were losses due to not getting all 10 of the gears killed and eventually getting owned by Homing Missile bs.


You know, this "Homing Missile bs" is also easily handled by reducing it's TP spam.

Quote:
Yeah it is. Auspice works (as much as that's worth) on more things than just Salvage bosses. In just about every case, casting the spell has not reduced the average amount of TP moves a mob has gotten to use in its lifetime, therefore I no longer cast it. If something is easy enough such that I'm bored and looking for something to do, I will cast Auspice and then join in the melee with Misery up. If it's not that easy, my MP is better spent elsewhere.


No it is not. You yourself aknowledged you've never tried the Monk/Penury/Auspice setup before.

You're passing your experiences with a very differents scenario as true for all scenarios. This is scientifically wrong. On top of being exprimentally wrong.

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Also, Auspice is not "just" 44/48 MP over the course of a Salvage boss fight, unless your boss fight takes 3 minutes or less. Taking the average duration of my fights into account it would probably take nearly 250-300 MP or so (depending on CMP procs) for me to maintain Auspice throughout, which to me is a significant chunk. All my MP goes toward Cure 5 and -na spam, and I often have had MP trouble later in these fights once the Soul Voice Ballads are gone.


Math says hi. Already addressed why this point is wrong before: Auspice will always pay itself against this mobs; always. The same way Slow and Paralyze pay for themsleves.

If you can not understand this basic concept I don't know what to tell you.

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Horrid analogy, not even going to dignify this with a further response.


This is you going "lalalalalala I can't hear you".

What Auspice brings to the table is extremly close to what Haste brings to the table defensive-wise.

What are the effects of lower recasts on Utsusemi? Taking less damage.
What are the effects of lower Enemy TP gain? Taking less damage.

Is this really such a hard concept to understand? Or do I need to elaborate on why is it a good idea to Paralyze/Slow as well?

Inbefore"Idontusehaste"argument

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