Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Any of those oddball WHM/PUPs out there?Follow

#1 Aug 27 2009 at 6:02 AM Rating: Excellent
**
484 posts
Hiya!

Been around for 6 years and I have leveled many many jobs up as a result. Anyway, I've raised my PUP to 75 during that time as well and have worked with it and attempted to be as versatile as I can be with the job. One combo I found to be pretty effective in some setups was going PUP/WHM with a Soulsoother Automaton.

For those already completely familiar with Soulsoother, you can skip the next paragraph:

*For those not too familiar with PUP, they have many frames and heads to use to customize their playstyle, making them adaptable to situations on the fly. The Soulsoother Automaton has the ability to cure other party members with powerful cure spells (they even have access to Regen III and Cure V at the highest levels). Not only does the automaton have powerful cure spells to use, but all of their cures are hate-less, too! And with the ability to Deactivate + Activate to restore its MP (if it has full HP), a PUP/WHM can easily main heal even a roaming party! The only reason why such healing is not well-known is that PUPs have to be very skilled to pull this off, have the necessary attachments, and the biggest reason of all: PUPs do not have Haste or enfeebles.

Anyway, long story short, I have become very adept with being a main healer as PUP/WHM (this was a time before SCH was available). And seeing the advantages of having an automaton to aid the healer, I decided to go WHM/PUP and give that a go in a few parties. Surprisingly, it is a very effective combo. As members of the party start dropping to yellow, I Deploy the automaton and he would periodically cast Cure III on the party members, the Cure IIIs being hateless. Also, with a Flashbulb attached to it, he would also Flash the mob as well, using a type of Flash with 99.9% accuracy on it (so skill need not be a factor).

So ultimately, I see a savings of MP just at the start of the fight (46MP Cure III, 25MP Flash). Since he is doing his own thing at this point, this frees me up to do a few others things (Haste, Paralyze, Dia, Regen, etc). And if things start going south fast, I can start throwing cures out myself.

On top of that, I can also perform (what I dubbed myself) the Double Flash. This Double Flash is incredible for NIN tanks. And if a PLD is in a party, we can all perform a Triple Flash. Simply put, in a fight, I deploy my automaton and he uses his Flashbulb, a low enmity and extremely accurate Flash, blinding the target and causing a whiff fest for 10 seconds. Then I do my Flash (higher enmity, but if the tank Provoked or the melee did some good damage, this should not be a problem), which will provide another 10 second whiff fest. For a NIN, this will greatly lengthen the use of his shadows. For a PLD, they can use Flash as well, for an additional 10 seconds of whiff festing (I rather have the PLD Flash first to get hate before I start using Flash myself). For a NIN, that's 20 seconds of crippling blindness which can really save on damage. For a PLD, that's 30 seconds of useless mob flailing that can really save them on enmity and damage (since they aren't losing hate from bloodtanking).

Of course, since then I have unlocked SCH and have been using WHM/SCH for 70+, but whenever I sync below 70, I find myself going WHM/PUP and it is still surprisingly effective in many situations. Yes, Penury can save me on some MP, but the automaton can save me 46MP from him using Cure III and 25MP from him using Flash. Yes, Celerity can help me rapid fire Hastes on the party, but I can deploy my automaton to Flash and Cure, so I can start pushing out Hastes to the party. Yes, Light Arts can help my Enfeebling Skill, but my enfeebling is capped on WHM, plus I swap in my AF for added Enfeebling Skill and other appropriate equipment to still reliably land enfeebles. In the end, it has quite a few benefits.

And, on top of that (and I blame an oversight on SE for this), if you sync down to someone's level and your main level is still above your automaton's level, he won't disappear. What this means is say my 75WHM/37PUP joins a level 37 sync party in East Ronfaure(S) on some birds. I'll sync down to 37, but my automaton won't disappear, since he is 37 too. This means I now have my WHM37 with a level 37 WHM automaton (essentially two excellent healers for the price of one party slot!). But of course, once you drop to 36 in a sync, bye-bye automaton. Also, if your level 37 automaton in this party gets killed (or you get killed), you may reactivate him, but if you're still under sync, he will just return as a level 18 automaton.

Now, although I did preach a lot of how great this sub can be, there are a lot of drawbacks to consider with this sub. First off, enemies that prevent you from getting out of AoE range and hit hard with AoEs would demolish an automaton, leaving you technically as a subless WHM in such situations (so it may be a bad idea to come to some NM fights/events as this). Also, the minimum requirement to even start using the Soulsoother is that your PUP has to be 40 (where you can do the quest to get the Soulsoother Head) and I don't see many WHMs suddenly going out to level their PUPs to get to that point. Another thing is that you can't have anything in the Ranged Slot of your equipment, as you need an Animator to properly use an automaton in that slot (not sure what profound equipment would be in the ranged slot, but just another downside).

But other than that, it is a pretty solid sub that has served me quite well on my leveling of WHM and syncing in parties. It has also proven quite a useful sub on my SCH job as well (going SCH/PUP), as I can use Flash with this combo and have support cures while I use my Arts, Addendums, and Strategems to aid the party. I tried as RDM/PUP before, but this is only good if you don't need -nas or Curagas (rare at low levels, but good for beetles). Never did BLM/PUP and would probably have to be very drunk to do that.

I just brought this thread up, as I can't be the only WHM/PUP out there, wandering about, earning the nickname from my party members as "Doctor Altairs + Nurse Comedie". But then again, I may be the only one, as everyone says WHM/SCH is just awesome and the way to go....and I agree, WHM/SCH is quite amazing (and I use it a lot for events and 70+), but I'm just providing another option and information from my experience.

TL/DR VERSION:

WHM/PUP:
Benefits
-Hateless support cures (essentially a free support healer)
-Magic from automatons do not draw magic aggro (thanks to PsionofPhoenix for reminding me of that)
-Use of the PUP-stun (Flashbulb + Deactivate) can make you lose aggro or distract mobs to allow the party to sneak by (revealed later in the thread)
-Low enmity, highly accurate Flash (which can be followed by your own Flash)
-Saves MP by having automaton heal for you (46MP saved on Cure III and 25MP saved on Flash)
-Can become an overpowered healer when syncing down to some parties, due to SE oversight on automaton scaling
-Healing support leaves you time to do other things (enfeeble, Haste, Regen, -na spells, etc)

Disadvantages
-If forced to take AoE attacks, it can kill a half-level automaton fast
-PUP 40 minimum requirement (to do quest to get Soulsoother)
-Animator required in ranged slot for proper automaton use

Edited, Aug 28th 2009 8:38am by Altairs
____________________________
"I like SMN, BST, PUP, COR, and BRD the best. As SMN, I can throw avatars at a mob. As BST, I can throw monsters at a mob. As PUP, I can throw dolls at a mob. As COR, I can throw bullets at a mob. As BRD, I can throw people at a mob!" --Skyla Altairs(myself)

Altairs: Main Job: 75Summoner/37Scholar
Other Jobs: 75BRD 75SMN 75PUP 75BST 75WHM 73BLM
Phoenix Server Linkshell: TheUnusualSuspects(social); Epic(New RP LS from former members of the LightsTemplar)
#2 Aug 27 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
42 posts
Very good analysis on the puppetmaster subjob! I myself am a puppetmaster and I enjoy playing around with it as a sub for different jobs. (my nin, for example, can always benefit when soloing to have those cures, na- spells, and flash.)

With the right attachments and understanding of how the puppet's AI fully works, the puppetmaster subjob can make for a very effective combinations given the correct circumstances.

I was not aware of the Puppetmaster sync-down overlook. The advantages of having Mainjob37/pup18 with a lvl 37 puppetmaster are just too good to overlook! I know this is a white mage forum, but moreso than thinking about the healing aspect is the DD aspect. I pondered on the thought.. I assume you physically check in your status menu that your puppet shows as lvl 37 under this particular circumstance of level sync? Then that must mean the HP/MP and skill levels of the automaton would reflect that level as well.

As a damage dealer, you could sub puppetmaster and have a fully functional Sharpshot frame on, for the sake on consistancy with your example, colibri in E ronfaure [S]. That would be more powerful than any subjob you could bring to the table as a melee job! (or even if you subbed it as a whm or rdm, say if your party was mage-heavy and low on DD). The only issue that really makes itself apparent, since colibri have no AOE, is holding hate of of the little buggers.

Sadly, my whm is only 66. If it were 75, I would love to experiment with the sub. However, I have other mage jobs that could benefit, such as rdm or sch. I will have to try out and verify the level-sync fault.

Thank you for providing such an in-depth and well thought out presentation on the use of puppetmaster sub for the white mage! It is very well done!

____________________________
Duelly the Hundredjobbed of Asura

I beat up old men for hats ^^

http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=20364
#3 Aug 27 2009 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
**
886 posts
Great analysis, and thanks for the info on the sync down of pup info! I also didn't know that. There is two other big advantages pup has over other spellcasters, though only the latter would have any use to a whm using pup sub. The first is they can cast while running, by simply retrieving after deploy. This is a huge boon to nuking as pup, but cures fire off so quickly it's rarely noticed as soulsoother healing.

The second big one, is that automaton's cures generate no aggro from magic aggro mobs like elementals. If an elemental pops in your camp or the like, you can still have the automaton support the party a bit while it gets the heck out of there. Of course, cure III won't be a huge support, but it's something while your party recovers its balance from the confusion.
____________________________
Main Character: Psion
World: Phoenix
Resident of Windurst
75BLU/75PUP/70COR
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?186284
#4 Aug 28 2009 at 4:33 AM Rating: Good
**
484 posts
PsionofPhoenix wrote:
The second big one, is that automaton's cures generate no aggro from magic aggro mobs like elementals. If an elemental pops in your camp or the like, you can still have the automaton support the party a bit while it gets the heck out of there. Of course, cure III won't be a huge support, but it's something while your party recovers its balance from the confusion.


Very good point and I completely forgot that I did use this to my advantage a few times (water elementals in Caedarva Mire and such). Very true that a few Cure IIIs won't help much, but still much better than doing nothing at all.

Another thing that also comes to mind is that PUPs and /PUPs can also lose aggro easily from various mobs with the Flashbulb (something used by PUPs in Assaults and events to distract true-sight mobs and such). Just have the pet do a quick Flashbulb and Deactivate (some PUPs call it the PUP-stun). The mob will be in a daze (as if he wiped out a soloist/party) and during that daze, you can bypass the mob without aggro (and some mobs will even despawn).

Just a few other tidbits that you can use if you're resourceful (I used the PUP-stun in Promyvion once to distract a wandering NM so that the party can sneak by without detection)
____________________________
"I like SMN, BST, PUP, COR, and BRD the best. As SMN, I can throw avatars at a mob. As BST, I can throw monsters at a mob. As PUP, I can throw dolls at a mob. As COR, I can throw bullets at a mob. As BRD, I can throw people at a mob!" --Skyla Altairs(myself)

Altairs: Main Job: 75Summoner/37Scholar
Other Jobs: 75BRD 75SMN 75PUP 75BST 75WHM 73BLM
Phoenix Server Linkshell: TheUnusualSuspects(social); Epic(New RP LS from former members of the LightsTemplar)
#5 Aug 28 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
42 posts
Yes, used correctly, ADD (activate-deploy-deactivate) trick could do wonders for saving your **** in aggro situations. The only problem that I could foresee with it is that used as a sub, your lvl 37 puppet fighting lvl 75-80 mobs is probably still going to get hit through flashbulb on occasion. The flash is powerful, but It's still possible to be hit through flash. I don't quite understand if a puppet has some sort of hidden evasion skill/trait, but I do know that the mobs will generally have increased accuracy against it as their level loom over the puppet.

This could leave you puppetless for up to 20 minutes if using the ADD trick, sadly. =/

But yes, for puppet main and possibly puppet sub on higher level monsters, the ADD trick would be another useful asset to add to the mix.
____________________________
Duelly the Hundredjobbed of Asura

I beat up old men for hats ^^

http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=20364
#6 Sep 20 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
388 posts
interesting thing, few years ago when pup was 1st released and then the WHM/BLM introduction my dyna ls (was jp) had made a few of our whm to go /pup just for this reason and of coz it went very amazing


only down side is that like the OP said if theres AoE and stuff like that basicly your subless

for myself i am pup75 also and my brother is pup75 and basicly we're very sure how powerful the whm frame is and coincidently enough my brother started using whm/pup in a Lv39 level sync party and it was amazing MP never was an issue.

as for my own personal experience i actually went on cor/pup in einharjar in my ls like ages ago since being cor its just a hassle to try handle /mage support healing (which im totally hopeless at) so i just kinda did my rolls and had my maton do the work, only downside in einharjar was with /pup AoE trashes it

sorry for messed up grammar spelling very late here at my place now tired...
#7 Sep 20 2009 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
***
1,793 posts
Quickly pointing something out, you said the Soulsoother could not enfeeble? Yes it can.

Other then that, I'm just passing through, a good read though
____________________________
Proud PUP of Phoenix.
Jobs: PUP COR RNG BLM NIN WHM 90
Member of Finale.
My Blog
#8 Sep 21 2009 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
**
886 posts
Oh, soulsoother can enfeeble, but if you equip scanner on it and it's 37, it will probably refuse to cast any enfeebles because it would sense they would not land... except perhaps dia/bio. Maybe.
____________________________
Main Character: Psion
World: Phoenix
Resident of Windurst
75BLU/75PUP/70COR
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?186284
#9 Sep 21 2009 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
***
1,793 posts
PsionofPhoenix wrote:
Oh, soulsoother can enfeeble, but if you equip scanner on it and it's 37, it will probably refuse to cast any enfeebles because it would sense they would not land... except perhaps dia/bio. Maybe.


It would still use dia or bio since they always land, but yeah I get where your coming from.

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:12pm by MagingMartin
____________________________
Proud PUP of Phoenix.
Jobs: PUP COR RNG BLM NIN WHM 90
Member of Finale.
My Blog
#10 Nov 20 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
*
141 posts
When using the WHM puppet I have also noticed it good to use the scanner on the automaton that way when it scans for weaknesses it notices that no enfeebling spells will stick and make cures/regen the only spells cast. Unless of course you do the Level-sync trick in which case it will cast normal spells.
#11 Nov 30 2009 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
17 posts
Altairs wrote:
Hiya!

Been around for 6 years and I have leveled many many jobs up as a result. Anyway, I've raised my PUP to 75 during that time as well and have worked with it and attempted to be as versatile as I can be with the job. One combo I found to be pretty effective in some setups was going PUP/WHM with a Soulsoother Automaton.

For those already completely familiar with Soulsoother, you can skip the next paragraph:

*For those not too familiar with PUP, they have many frames and heads to use to customize their playstyle, making them adaptable to situations on the fly. The Soulsoother Automaton has the ability to cure other party members with powerful cure spells (they even have access to Regen III and Cure V at the highest levels). Not only does the automaton have powerful cure spells to use, but all of their cures are hate-less, too! And with the ability to Deactivate + Activate to restore its MP (if it has full HP), a PUP/WHM can easily main heal even a roaming party! The only reason why such healing is not well-known is that PUPs have to be very skilled to pull this off, have the necessary attachments, and the biggest reason of all: PUPs do not have Haste or enfeebles.

Anyway, long story short, I have become very adept with being a main healer as PUP/WHM (this was a time before SCH was available). And seeing the advantages of having an automaton to aid the healer, I decided to go WHM/PUP and give that a go in a few parties. Surprisingly, it is a very effective combo. As members of the party start dropping to yellow, I Deploy the automaton and he would periodically cast Cure III on the party members, the Cure IIIs being hateless. Also, with a Flashbulb attached to it, he would also Flash the mob as well, using a type of Flash with 99.9% accuracy on it (so skill need not be a factor).

So ultimately, I see a savings of MP just at the start of the fight (46MP Cure III, 25MP Flash). Since he is doing his own thing at this point, this frees me up to do a few others things (Haste, Paralyze, Dia, Regen, etc). And if things start going south fast, I can start throwing cures out myself.

On top of that, I can also perform (what I dubbed myself) the Double Flash. This Double Flash is incredible for NIN tanks. And if a PLD is in a party, we can all perform a Triple Flash. Simply put, in a fight, I deploy my automaton and he uses his Flashbulb, a low enmity and extremely accurate Flash, blinding the target and causing a whiff fest for 10 seconds. Then I do my Flash (higher enmity, but if the tank Provoked or the melee did some good damage, this should not be a problem), which will provide another 10 second whiff fest. For a NIN, this will greatly lengthen the use of his shadows. For a PLD, they can use Flash as well, for an additional 10 seconds of whiff festing (I rather have the PLD Flash first to get hate before I start using Flash myself). For a NIN, that's 20 seconds of crippling blindness which can really save on damage. For a PLD, that's 30 seconds of useless mob flailing that can really save them on enmity and damage (since they aren't losing hate from bloodtanking).

Of course, since then I have unlocked SCH and have been using WHM/SCH for 70+, but whenever I sync below 70, I find myself going WHM/PUP and it is still surprisingly effective in many situations. Yes, Penury can save me on some MP, but the automaton can save me 46MP from him using Cure III and 25MP from him using Flash. Yes, Celerity can help me rapid fire Hastes on the party, but I can deploy my automaton to Flash and Cure, so I can start pushing out Hastes to the party. Yes, Light Arts can help my Enfeebling Skill, but my enfeebling is capped on WHM, plus I swap in my AF for added Enfeebling Skill and other appropriate equipment to still reliably land enfeebles. In the end, it has quite a few benefits.

And, on top of that (and I blame an oversight on SE for this), if you sync down to someone's level and your main level is still above your automaton's level, he won't disappear. What this means is say my 75WHM/37PUP joins a level 37 sync party in East Ronfaure(S) on some birds. I'll sync down to 37, but my automaton won't disappear, since he is 37 too. This means I now have my WHM37 with a level 37 WHM automaton (essentially two excellent healers for the price of one party slot!). But of course, once you drop to 36 in a sync, bye-bye automaton. Also, if your level 37 automaton in this party gets killed (or you get killed), you may reactivate him, but if you're still under sync, he will just return as a level 18 automaton.

Now, although I did preach a lot of how great this sub can be, there are a lot of drawbacks to consider with this sub. First off, enemies that prevent you from getting out of AoE range and hit hard with AoEs would demolish an automaton, leaving you technically as a subless WHM in such situations (so it may be a bad idea to come to some NM fights/events as this). Also, the minimum requirement to even start using the Soulsoother is that your PUP has to be 40 (where you can do the quest to get the Soulsoother Head) and I don't see many WHMs suddenly going out to level their PUPs to get to that point. Another thing is that you can't have anything in the Ranged Slot of your equipment, as you need an Animator to properly use an automaton in that slot (not sure what profound equipment would be in the ranged slot, but just another downside).

But other than that, it is a pretty solid sub that has served me quite well on my leveling of WHM and syncing in parties. It has also proven quite a useful sub on my SCH job as well (going SCH/PUP), as I can use Flash with this combo and have support cures while I use my Arts, Addendums, and Strategems to aid the party. I tried as RDM/PUP before, but this is only good if you don't need -nas or Curagas (rare at low levels, but good for beetles). Never did BLM/PUP and would probably have to be very drunk to do that.

I just brought this thread up, as I can't be the only WHM/PUP out there, wandering about, earning the nickname from my party members as "Doctor Altairs + Nurse Comedie". But then again, I may be the only one, as everyone says WHM/SCH is just awesome and the way to go....and I agree, WHM/SCH is quite amazing (and I use it a lot for events and 70+), but I'm just providing another option and information from my experience.

TL/DR VERSION:

WHM/PUP:
Benefits
-Hateless support cures (essentially a free support healer)
-Magic from automatons do not draw magic aggro (thanks to PsionofPhoenix for reminding me of that)
-Use of the PUP-stun (Flashbulb + Deactivate) can make you lose aggro or distract mobs to allow the party to sneak by (revealed later in the thread)
-Low enmity, highly accurate Flash (which can be followed by your own Flash)
-Saves MP by having automaton heal for you (46MP saved on Cure III and 25MP saved on Flash)
-Can become an overpowered healer when syncing down to some parties, due to SE oversight on automaton scaling
-Healing support leaves you time to do other things (enfeeble, Haste, Regen, -na spells, etc)

Disadvantages
-If forced to take AoE attacks, it can kill a half-level automaton fast
-PUP 40 minimum requirement (to do quest to get Soulsoother)
-Animator required in ranged slot for proper automaton use

Edited, Aug 28th 2009 8:38am by Altairs



PUP is actually a good sub for many jobs especially at lower levels.
#12 Dec 08 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
birdwatcherr wrote:
PUP is actually a good sub for many jobs especially at lower levels.
It's situationally a pretty useful subjob at 75 too, depending on the specific tasks you're doing, based on how aggro involving automatons and deactivate works.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 17 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (17)