Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Taking WHM out of retirement.Follow

#1 Jul 27 2009 at 12:02 AM Rating: Default
I'm going to start playing WHM again but I'm a little overwhelmed by it.

I don't fully understand the Afflatus Solace vs. Afflatus Misery, and when I'm supposed to use each one.

Also, I plan on using /SCH 99% of the time based on what I've read about Sublimation.

However, I don't fully understand the rest of the subjob's bonuses.

I think I've heard of White Mages using Penury, but doesn't Addendum: White stop us from keeping Light Arts up?

I'm a little confused by this, but I haven't levelled SCH yet.

I haven't played WHM much since before WoTG so the newer abilities/changes to the job as well as the benefits of WHM/SCH confuse me.

If anyone wants to give me some tips or methods for utilizing these abilities it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, links to guides/discussions welcome.
____________________________
MUTED
#2 Jul 27 2009 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
597 posts
I'll let someone else touch on Afflatus, I'll be the /sch advocate.


Firstly, there's "Light Arts" and "Addendum:White". Add:White is like light arts+1, it gives access to spells like reraise 2, erase, paralyna, poisona, so on and so forth, to scholar. It doesn't do much for white mage main since we get those naturally, but its not any different from light arts, it just allows access to more spells while in light arts.

The benefit of Light Arts and thus, /sch, is huge. Having LA up gives a CONSTANT -10% off cast time and MP cost to white magic spells. Haste, cure, barspells, all of em. That in itself is huge, /sch also gives the passive trait Conserve MP, which while isnt amazing, it's something. I think it's like 7 mp saved for every 100 spent, so not stellar, but its still 7 mp.

Penury is your best friend. It halves the mp cost of the next spell by 50%, amazing mp management can be had when you use it on cure V, shellra V, RR, curaga III-IV, etc.

Celerity reduces your next spell's cast time by 50%, as well as caps the recast on it to be as short as possible. When you're weakened, haste the spell doesnt affect recast timers, but haste from gear does and celerity does, so always celerity ->raise and it will be up a lot faster allowing you to recover from wipes quicker. It has other uses such as quick stoneskins, getting back on a haste cycle after a few bad pulls, so on and so forth.

Being in Light Arts itself boosts any skills we have that weren't at least a B+, to a B+, so our Enhancing magic gets kicked up to 256 (any merits are applied on top of the 256 iirc) so our barspells get a nice little boost to them when /sch.


Dark Arts does the same thing for our black magic skills, namely, dark magic. /sch also gives us drain and aspir, which effectively means we now have an Aspir with a 256 dark magic skill backing it. If we use Addendum:Black (remember, Dark Arts+1, gives us access to spells) we get access to Dispel, so you can go do lamia 13 assaults and never have to change off WHM.



My biggest tip to using /sch, and more specifically Penury and Celerity, is to macro them, preferably in an easy to reach macro (personally, alt1 and 2 are Penury and celerity respectively for me). You'll forget to use them unless they're macro'd, and you'll be much more efficent with them if theyre macro'd.


Yea, wall of text, my bad.
#3 Jul 27 2009 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
Hrm. I'm not sure why I thought Addendum: White was useful as WHM/SCH, must have misread the information.

Thanks for the advice. I have a couple more questions in case you're feeling generous.

Can you keep Light Arts up at all times?

If I use Marduk's hands or Ixion Cloak for the Regen effect, will I be able to rest during Sublimation without Stoneskin, or will Stoneskin still be required?
(Note: Just curious about this, I have a pretty good Stoneskin setup and it's pretty much always on anyway)

I think I understand Solace/Misery now, found a nice little guide in the sticky.

*facepalm*

Oh, and recommended group 2 merits?
I'm going 5/5 -Cure spellcasting and Regen Potency for group 1 which is probably the generic approach.

Thinking 5/5 Shellra V, 1/5 Protectra V,
and either 2 Martyr/2 Devotion or 1 Martyr/3 Devotion. Opinions?

Considering my Tarutaru HP, I don't know how useful these are going to be...

Edited, Jul 27th 2009 4:58am by Poubelle
____________________________
MUTED
#4 Jul 27 2009 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
597 posts
Light Arts has a 2 hour duration, yea, you can and should keep it up all the time


Regardless of what regen effects you have on, sublimation is the same as poison, you need to have stoneskin up in order to rest. It does serve the application while its charging from preventing you from being slept, however, so thats neat.


You're pretty spot on for group 2. I went 5/5 Shellra, 1/5 Protectra, 1/5 Martyr, 3/5 Devotion. If you can live without Martyr, by all means 4/5 Devotion, but I like having Martyr for oh shi- situations so I just have it unlocked for those moments. Dont take it, or pro V, past 1/5.
#5 Jul 27 2009 at 1:46 AM Rating: Default
Silent But Deadly
*****
19,999 posts
Protectra V can safely be left out at this time (it's less MP-efficient in terms of the defense increase than IV is, and 5~13 defense normally means an extremely minimal decrease in damage taken - like, 2-3% tops). If SE finally gets wise and either ups the base defense given with it at 1/5, or starts throwing in a minimal Phalanx to it (which could even be a Solace-only bonus), then I'd suggest otherwise, but as far as things go at present, stick the merit you'd put into Protectra V into something else.

Also, if you happen to know that there will be another WHM present to cover Shellra V, 5/5 Devotion 5/5 Martyr should be an acceptable build. (This is also acceptable if you happen to know that any PLDs you normally work with already have both Aegis and at least 4% in either DT- or MDT- gear otherwise, as that's the point at which Shell IV will cap out their MDT.)

EDIT to add: As far as Group 1 merits go, any combination of (pick two) 5/5 Cure time, 5/5 Barspells, or 5/5 Regen is acceptable. Meriting Divine Seal is only to be done if there's a sudden announcement that its timer is being cut to 2:30 (which would be accompanied by the merits being -5 seconds at that point, for a 2:05 timer), and meriting Banish is pretty close to throwing those merits away even if you're killing undead regularly.

Edited, Jul 27th 2009 3:00am by MDenham
____________________________
SUPER BANNED FOR FAILING TO POST 20K IN A TIMELY MANNER
#6 Jul 27 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Default
It seems to me like, actually, 5/5 Devotion and 5/5 Shellra would be the absolute best.

...but I don't want non-WHMs to think I'm gimp when they see me casting Protectra IV (because they don't know how the bonuses compare) and I'm telling myself that I'll use Martyr but I probably won't.
Might go Shellra 5/5, Protectra 1/5, 4/5 Devotion as you suggested.
I have some time to decide because I'm redistributing some Merits and finishing off -Cure Spellcasting Time before I delve into Group 2; Regen Merits will probably come after Cure Spellcasting and all of Group 2 is complete.

I mean, back to Martyr; I see it as a possibility if you really needed to heal someone and were out of MP, but... I feel like if I work hard on my macros, utilize all of my abilities, and play efficiently, I shouldn't have trouble keeping my MP up as a Tarutaru WHM. Especially with Sublimation, Light Arts, and an above average hMP set.

Of course, you could use Martyr when you're Silenced, but any mage should be carrying Echo Drops at all times IMHO. At least in their Mog Satchel.

So it would be like I was getting Martyr for, maybe... Dynamis - Buburimu **** emergencies? lol

*rambling on*

Edit: By the way, do these Group 2 Merit Abilites (Martyr & Devotion) create much hate, if any?

Edited, Jul 27th 2009 6:04am by Poubelle
____________________________
MUTED
#7 Jul 27 2009 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
Silent But Deadly
*****
19,999 posts
Actually, Martyr is useful primarily in situations where White Magic is blocked and you don't have access to a BLU in your group. Which means, pretty much, Nyzul on occasion and the opening part of Salvage.

This is why there generally isn't a recommendation for putting more than one merit into Martyr (I mean, how often are you going to run into that block twice in twenty minutes, right? :-D).

(The other use is for quickly turbocharging Holy under Solace. Get the RDM to pop Convert, Cure V -> Martyr w/o Stoneskin -> Cure III yourself, and you're at half charge or better already.)
____________________________
SUPER BANNED FOR FAILING TO POST 20K IN A TIMELY MANNER
#8 Jul 27 2009 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
306 posts
I've used martyr maybe 4 times since I unlocked it, but each time it saved my party member when they would have otherwise died (ie being silenced, the tank with a sliver of life and you dont have time to use and echo and cure). It is very much more of a one off situation, a nice back up.

To answer one of your last questions I do not believe there is any emnity gained from devotion or martyr but also to be honest I have never used one in a situation where I would have gained hate. If there is emnity involved I don't believe it would be very much.

In general however meriting will depend on what you do ingame, if you are more endgame with your whm then maxing barspells and devotion are pretty much manditory, cure casting being the standard to cap in tier one.
____________________________
Dorrin (Hume)
LS (EW)dynamis (Elitez)
Titan
Rank 10
whm, drg, war, blm, pld, brd, rng: 75,smn: 39, thf, nin, rdm, sam, blu, drk, dnc, sch: 37, all others 15
npc: 65
sea, sky
af2: drg 5/5+belt, whm 5/5, war 5/5+belt, blm 5/5, pld 5/5, brd 5/5+cape, rng 5/5, shadow mantle
#9 Jul 27 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
**
855 posts
For Afflatus Solace and Misery..I can understand why you're confused..I was totally jumbling my macros when those were introduced.

In short, I solace almost all of the time. Solace gives cure the ability to put stoneskin on whoever you're curing. This is useful.

I use misery when Im fighting something I know uses alot of negative statuses like psychflayers (you know the ones that use the killer bio blaah) in nyzul or you dont necessarily want to waste a divine veil. Esuna is more powerful when under misery and can remove up to 2 negative statuses. Esuna can work without misery up but its alot weaker and will only remove some things..if you use misery+esuna then you can remove the difficult stuff like gravity.

They do other things to like add enlight to your own weapon under auspice and increasing your spells potency when hurt (misery) or they can increase your spells potency based on how much you cure (solace)

Might want to check out the wiki for further details cause I can never remember..however for the stuff I do, I think the important stuff is mainly the cure+stoneskin and then the strong esuna.

--

Ive used martyr as a last resort "thank god I had that unlocked or we'd all be dead" situation. I used it the other day when we misjudged some elite training augment mob that I was duoing and had no mp. I've also used it in nyzul when we were on a boss floor and were hit with "no white magic".

It can save lives, you may not want to merit the heck out of it though. I only have it unlocked.

--

/sch is confusing as all get out until you actually lvl it and use it for the first time. The first time I went whm/sch Id been lvling my sch under lvl sync so I had no idea how to use all those JAs to begin with..but I quickly figured it out and saw how supremely awesome the sj is.

I have light arts up at all times, pretty much. I find I have issues changing to dark arts, because it seems like everytime I want to cast aspir or something, I really wish I was back on light arts for penury again..or I used all my book charges and I cant use aspir for 50 seconds anyway. Its grr.

and I personally like my marduk hands for sublimation, I didnt mean to buy them but now that I have them I do kind of like them alot. Its already been said you cant rest without stoneskin even with them but for the amount of running around and non sitting I do in salvage and nyzul, I can use sublimation and not worry about whether or not Ill jack it up do to my hp or having to stop and cast stoneskin. I can put my gloves on and run.

Edited, Jul 27th 2009 11:44am by Glddaisy
____________________________
Name: Daus
Resident of the Kujata server
ZM/CoP/ToAU/Bastok10: Complete
RDM75/whm75/smn75/dnc48/sch45/blm38/37drk/37nin
[http://Daisy7.deviantart.com]

#10 Jul 27 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,755 posts
this thread was about someone who was struggling with the new JA/spells on update day, if you look on page 2-3 of the whm forum there's quite a few threads on it
____________________________
Dwayna
75WHM 75BLM
94+2 Clothcraft
Lakshmi
#11 Jul 27 2009 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
*
176 posts
Quote:
(ie being silenced, the tank with a sliver of life and you dont have time to use and echo and cure)

I've done that before, yeah! :D

The one I was thinking of is ... you know if you lag and hit the wrong spell, or wrong target, and all you can do to correct it is:

- let it finish (takes forever)

or

- /heal and stand back up (takes forever-er)

...I know it's not the most likely situation, but when that has happened at a bad time, I can spam Martyr and it will fire before my corrected spell would (I said Cure4! not stoneskin! seriously, game?! SERIOUSLY?!?!)

It can happen regardless of how "Best. White. Mage. Ever." you are -- but if anyone here claims immunity, please gimme your internet connection! :)
____________________________
~ Mjollnir Lv.90 ~ Rya's Site ~ Rya's Videos ~
#12 Jul 27 2009 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,755 posts
ive been known to get 7second delay between command and action on a 10M/10M line in ffxi lol, it has that "crappy connectivity on the other side of the world" charm :P (also pretty hard to play whm in)

Edited, Jul 27th 2009 12:02pm by ZiGG
____________________________
Dwayna
75WHM 75BLM
94+2 Clothcraft
Lakshmi
#13 Jul 28 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
117 posts
I did 5/5 Shellra V, 4/5 Devotion and 1/5 Martyr and never looked back. I have no issues casting Protectra IV, and nobody has ever said anything to me about it :D

One quick suggestion about your Group 1 meris though: If you intend to join an HNMLS as a WHM main, I'd recommend picking up barspell potency instead of regen.
____________________________
75 WHM BLM RDM SMN BRD SCH
-------
http://www.pitbullproblem.tk
#14 Jul 28 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,898 posts
oFenyx wrote:
I did 5/5 Shellra V, 4/5 Devotion and 1/5 Martyr and never looked back. I have no issues casting Protectra IV, and nobody has ever said anything to me about it :D

One quick suggestion about your Group 1 meris though: If you intend to join an HNMLS as a WHM main, I'd recommend picking up barspell potency instead of regen.
I did almost the same thing, but I took one from Devotion and opened Protectra V. I can't really think that 2:30 off of Devotion is that significant. In the vast majority of situations, I almost never use it at all. Having everything open is nice, even if it's just eye candy.
#15 Jul 28 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
957 posts
Martyr is useful not because it's free; it's useful because it's instant. It is the only other "Cure" a WHM has that shares this particular characteristic (The other one being Benediction).

Simply put: when you just know that the next cure will not land in time; martyr is there to save the day.
Be it someone getting hit while you cast another spell, a resting Animation-Bind, hitting the wrong macro by accident; or maybe just someone getting the **** beat out of them: Martyr will make the difference.

I have personally used it and kept it for this very reason. And it has saved tons of lives.



Quote:
Also, if you happen to know that there will be another WHM present to cover Shellra V, 5/5 Devotion 5/5 Martyr should be an acceptable build. (This is also acceptable if you happen to know that any PLDs you normally work with already have both Aegis and at least 4% in either DT- or MDT- gear otherwise, as that's the point at which Shell IV will cap out their MDT.)


I absolutely do not recommend this in the least. 5/5 Shellra V is the most important buff a WHM can give. It is extremely misguided to believe there will always be someone out there to cast it for you.
And Aegis paladins do not suddenly make capped Shellra V useless. There's still other 5 people in your party you know? Not to mention it is extremely beneficial for a WHM to have it on himself.

Simply put; no WHM should ever consider not having capped Shellra V. Not even non-Mains.
____________________________
It is better wither to be silent, or to say things of more value than silence. Sooner throw a pearl at hazard than an idle or useless word; and do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few.
- Pythagoras
#16 Jul 29 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,755 posts
well the -.8% damage reduction isn't going to matter many times if you aren't an absolutely hardcore whm. I can understand people dropping lv5 to get shinies but as far as whm merits go there is absolutely no build that won't have at least lv4 shellraV in it
____________________________
Dwayna
75WHM 75BLM
94+2 Clothcraft
Lakshmi
#17 Jul 29 2009 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,190 posts
Protectra and Martyr should never get more than one point.

If you want to unlock everything but also get 5/5 Devotion, that's fine, but your spare 2 points should still definitely go in Shellra.
#18 Jul 30 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,230 posts
I apologize in advance if anything i mention was covered, some will be a repeat.

Whm merits, Cure Cast time has "tiered" caps. I don't remember the thread offhand, but there is a point when its more useful than others. If you have Cure clogs tho, you "can" do somewhat without Cure cast time merits, ir less merits here.

I did a combo of Cure cast time, Regen potancy and Barspells. Pretty much any combo is good here as all 3 are useful on a very normal basis.

Group 2, i'll definatly second, third, whatever we are at in terms of backing ups that Shellra X5, Devo X4 Pro X1. Pro i have since its better than Pro 4, yes, its only 5 Def, but it IS better, so i put 1 merit in, but never do more than 1, again, unless they add a Phalanx effect or raw damage reduction effect down. Shellra is Pure magical damage down, a must have. Devotion is restoring Mp, a Great thing to have, provided you have a mage in your party. This ability Will be wasted if say you are in a dyna group with yourself and 5 melees.

Here is where some will say throw 1 merit into Matyr. It actually has a few uses. You can use when silenced, its on par with "Waltz" speed, and you can use in magic Restricted areas or in magic aggro areas. SO it has uses, they are just more limited by what you are doing. Its also useful if you are out of Mp (tho that shoudl rarely happen)

Now for /Sch. Light arts has a 2 hr duration. However situationally depending you may switch back and forth between Light and Dark arts. Sch has a rather broad spell library, and Among theor dark spells they have Drain and Aspir. Activating Dark arts gives you a major boost to Dark magic Skill, enough so a whm/sch can efficiently use Drain and Aspir.

I think my current records are 189 Hp and 151 Mp. A whm/Blm will come nowhere near that.

Addendum Black like Addendum white offers Sch some Additional spells, however this consumes a stratagem. You will use this where you'll never use Addendum white since whm gets all those spells naturally. The 2 spells you get through Addendum Black are Sleep and Dispel. Dispel is a Very useful spell, but only really if you don't have a Rdm or Brd, but i still find a use for it from time to time.

Light Arts will Last for 2 hours and has a recast of 1 min. It wears when you zone. Light arts is a direct 10% Mp cut, 10% cast speed and 10% recast speed on ALL white magic spells. Penury will cut the mp cost of your next spell in half. Half of the origional cost, nto the 90% light arts cost, ex. Raise is 150 Mp, Under light arts its 135 Mp, under penury its 75 Mp.

Celerity is a cut of cast speed and recast by 50%. So again, raise has a 1 min recast. Light arts recast is 54 seconds, Celerity recast is 30 secs.

/Sch also offers a resist silence and conserve MP trait, which is always a nice thing for whm.

And finally Sublimation. Saps your Hp at 2 a tick, 1 a tick with Auto-regen, or 0 a tick with regen gear. Stoneskin WILL absorb the damage so you can rest, but like Any dot, if stoneskin falls you'll get up, even if you are loosing no HP. Like if you throw regen, you'll actually gain Hp but still cannot rest.

Its also a wake up call, just like a poison potion, except depending on your Hp, will last about 5 minutes and you can use sublimation when you choose. (barring the 30 sec recast)
When its done charging (which will take ~5-6 mins) the icon will change and you can use the charged Sublimation. This will restore 1/4 of your Hp in Mp. (forget offhand if gear and which gear effects this, HP+ i think does, while HP to Mp does not, pretty sure thats Not right, but gear effects this differently) So if you have 800 HP, it will restore 200 MP.

Now for the Whm abilities. Solice will Grant a bonus to your cures. They will provide the resiever with a ~25 second stoneskin effect, which will absorb a set amount of damage. Every cure you cast will add to a pool, which piles into a MAB effect for your next holy/banish. You also recieve a bonus to your Barspells and to the neg stats you can steal with Sacrifice.

Misery bases off the damage you take. Misery will increase the spells you can remove with Esuna. The most recent damage you recieve from an attack will pool into your next casting of Cura. With Auspice under Misery the WHm will gain Enlight and an Acc bonus when you miss an attack.

Typically whm stay in Solice mode when they need to cure, while will stay in Misery mode when they are in range of the mobs attacks and the mobs do a lot of Neg stats.

Essentially Esuna is AoE Erase All X2 while under Misery, while under solice its Poisonaga/paralynaga/blindnaga. You cannot remove Pertification of silence with Esuna since you cannot cast with them.
____________________________
Chocobo Status: Retired Green, Black, Red, Yellow

Dmhlucky Tarutaru
Whm/Blm/Rdm/Mnk/Thf/Pld/Blu/Smn/Dnc/Pup/Bst/Drg 99, War 91, Brd/Sch/Sam/Nin/Cor/Drk/Rng/Geo/Run 60

Alch 72+1, Cook 66, CC 61+1, Wood 61, Synergy 56, Bone 54, Leather 51, Gold 49, Smithing 45, Fish 15

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?143946

#19 Jul 30 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
****
4,211 posts
Fynlar wrote:
Protectra and Martyr should never get more than one point.

If you want to unlock everything but also get 5/5 Devotion, that's fine, but your spare 2 points should still definitely go in Shellra.

I agree 100%. No reason to spend more than 1 in Martyr or Protectra, thus no reason not to have at least 3 Shellra and 3 Devotion.

In terms of Martyr's usefulness, I'm surprised it still hasn't fully caught on as it's one of the most beneficial merits for WHM to unlock. Aside from the circumstances where it can really make a huge difference (like Nyzul floors where white magic is restricted), even just as a supplement in normal battles it is essentially a free Cure IV. Doesn't sound that much until you realize that this makes it roughly equivalent to 8/8 MP merits, while only costing 3 merits total to unlock. That alone should be a selling point for most WHMs.
____________________________
Pergatory (Asura, Kupo LS) WHM99 ~ SMN99 ~ DRK99
"If you want to know me, look inside your heart." -Lao Tzu
#20 Oct 24 2009 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
445 posts
There's not even a reason to put a single point in Protectra. The defense is minimal.

I'd rather have people think I'm gimp because I cast Protectra IV than be gimp and cast Protectra V.
#21 Oct 24 2009 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Thanks for the info, despite being 3 months late.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#22 Oct 25 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,190 posts
Quote:
There's not even a reason to put a single point in Protectra. The defense is minimal.


Pfft, who are we kidding? Protectra is merited for the shiny/completion factor, not because it's incredibly useful or anything. It's not much different from white boxes on most pieces of gear.

I'm not exactly missing having a 12:30 recast on Devotion instead of 15:00. 15:00 is a neater looking recast amount, anyway. (To this day I'm irked about the 8:20 on my RDM's Convert, but I tolerate it because Convert is badass. On the other hand, I don't get to use Devotion much anyway because in a lot of my parties, I'm the only MP user.)

Edited, Oct 25th 2009 11:20am by Fynlar
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 15 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (15)