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/sch and newly back to WHMFollow

#52 Jul 16 2009 at 1:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
regardless of what the name of the thread is why don't u actually try reading my @#%^ing question. all i asked is if /blm is acceptable meaning is it still ok to use blm as a sub i didn't ask about /sch i didn't say sch wasn't good it was a @#%^ing yes/no question that got drawn into some stupid debate


Your question was read. Your question was answered. 9 days ago. By multiple people. The answer was "no". You didn't like the answer. Nothing was debated. Get over it.

Edited, Jul 16th 2009 4:24am by chewzer
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#53 Jul 16 2009 at 2:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly people won't give a sh*t what you sub as WHM, really, nor will most of them even know the inner workings of the job and why /SCH is overall a better sub in the first place. People look at WHM and they think Cures, status heals, Hastes, Teleports, and Raise 3. As far as they are concerned, you have all of that no matter what you sub and for the most part, they all work equally as well regardless of your sub.

For WHM the sub just supplements the job and isn't really essential to making it work. The same often cannot be said for say, tank roles. No matter what main job you're trying to tank as, the sub is usually essential to making it work out well if the thing you're trying to tank is even remotely challenging.

Bottom line, is career /BLM use "acceptable"? Sure, it must be, considering I still see many career WHM/BLMs make it to and thrive at 75 to this day. However, you will have a harder time with the job than someone with /SCH and your MP stamina will be poorer, particularly in scenarios where a RDM is not present (and given the current trend of whoamg TP burn, you are going to be very unlikely to find parties that will invite both a WHM and RDM after around ToAU levels). Whether or not it's "OK" to maintain usage of /BLM is something you should be answering, not leaving it to other people. If you feel like you would want better MP conservation as well as the option of a mini-Refresh (Sublimation) when you cannot get the real thing from a RDM, then you level /SCH. If not, then don't. As far as everyone else goes, as long as they're getting their Cures, status heals, Hastes, Teleports, and Raise 3s, they couldn't care less what you do.
#54 Jul 16 2009 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
Tazblackferret wrote:
regardless of what the name of the thread is why don't u actually try reading my @#%^ing question. all i asked is if /blm is acceptable meaning is it still ok to use blm as a sub i didn't ask about /sch i didn't say sch wasn't good it was a @#%^ing yes/no question that got drawn into some stupid debate


Your question was read. Your question was answered. 9 days ago. By multiple people. The answer was "no". You didn't like the answer. Nothing was debated. Get over it.



I answered "yes" ^^
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#55 Jul 16 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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The answer for "Is it acceptable?" is no. It becomes unacceptable the moment you get access to Advanced Subjobs.

The answer for "Can I get away with it?", however, is yes. And I really think that is what the OP wants to know.



In my honest opinion; I don't know why would anyone want to level WHM without /SCH. You're basically doing yourself a disservice.

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#56 Jul 16 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Default
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then surely you just contradicted yourself?
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#57 Jul 16 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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You know what I'm referring at. A naked bard is not acceptable; but one can still get away with it and make it to 75.
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#58 Jul 18 2009 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
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In reality it won't matter. The only situation it'll be important, at least in Aht Urhgan areas, is heavy melee setups. Basically if a party list reads like Tank/4x Melee DD/You, /SCH is going to be almost necessary. That being said, I personally refuse parties like that to begin with; I prefer a more traditional and relaxed setup to an extra bit of XP/hour, and I'll tell that to any leader's face who tries to make an XP party a stressful situation for me.

The instant a party reads Tank/3x Melee DD/You/Some Buffer Job (COR, BRD, RDM), the issue with /BLM vs. /SMN vs. /SCH becomes moot. You're going to have cure support, refresh, or both, and either is going to make the MP issue negligible unless your tank is hideous or you have no idea how to manage your MP pool.

Just my two cents.

**Disclaimer** - these points apply to XP parties only. Events vary, and will require varied subs, often times /SCH.
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#59 Jul 19 2009 at 1:57 AM Rating: Good
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Tazblackferret wrote:
Hai guyz, I know you're all saying scholar is really really good, but I don't wanna level it. Think I can egt by with /blm and still be super duper cool?


Alla's white mages wrote:
No. Here's mathematical proof scholar absolutely wipes the floor with /blm so bad it isn't even funny.


Tazblackferret wrote:
Hai guyz, that's not what I wanted to hear. Please tell me /blm is better, 'k?



Alla's white mages wrote:
More proof and reasons why /sch is vastly better in 95% of all situations.


Tazblackferret wrote:
WELL I CAN PLAY HOW I LIKE AND IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THEN YOURE STUPID AND BLINDED TO /SCH ONRY. I AM VERY SKILLED AND ONLY NEED /BLM. NOW TELL ME I'M RIGHT



Seriously, this is such a friendly board.. quit wasting your breath on this guy.

Edited, Jul 19th 2009 5:57am by Findanniin
#60 Jul 19 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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thank for changing and twisting my words ^^
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#61 Jul 31 2009 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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To be completely honest taz if you don't want to level sch for a sj you don't haveto. People half the time don't even seem to care if you are gimp ... I mean really I have seen a thf get to 60THF/10NIN and refused to even get a ranged and had no idea what sata was... that is just pure fail there but it has happened. I personally wont be unretiring my whm til I get from 29 to 37.
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#62 Jul 31 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
regardless of what the name of the thread is why don't u actually try reading my @#%^ing question. all i asked is if /blm is acceptable meaning is it still ok to use blm as a sub i didn't ask about /sch i didn't say sch wasn't good it was a @#%^ing yes/no question that got drawn into some stupid debate


The short answer would be yes.

It's better to have options, and why wouldn't you want to lvl SCH anyways when it also benefits BLM and pretty much every other mage job in general?

/SCH lets WHM be more self sufficient without any extra support from another support job IE BRD or a RDM.

Also if you really want people to take you seriously you can at the very least capitalize the first letter and add a period at the end of your sentences. >_>"
#64 Aug 22 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Taz, I would say 99% of the whm's lfp on my server are whm/blm. So no, you don't need to level sch to get a party. You don't even need to level sch to get to whm75.

Of course, the reason whm/blm is lfp is that everyone invites whm/sch, sch/whm, sch/rdm, and rdm/whm first. So you will be the fifth-best choice, have to wait far longer for invites, and have a second-rate sub when you finally get the party. This second-rate sub will limit your abilities via lack of casting speed and mp efficiency and thus lower the exp/hour for your party.

But you will still get invites on whm/blm. And you will still get to 75.

P.S. I also dislike leveling scholar. Mine is at 28, and I'm leveling it as a requirement for whm and pup. Whatever you decide, gl to you.
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#65 Aug 23 2009 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, OP, here's my advice as someone that's planning to level WHM to 75 in the near future: SCH really is that great.

Thankfully, already having the job at 75, I don't have to worry about leveling it as a sub, but it's actually quite fun to level if you do it right. 1-10 is quite dreadful, but once you get into parties, it gets better. 1-37 on SCH more or less makes you either a dedicated WHM or a dedicated BLM because the job doesn't have much in the way of job defining abilities (Also, the single stratagem on a one minute timer limits this as well). Basically, you want to level WHM, so just level SCH to 37 and heal in your parties. You're going to be doing it anyway. If you get bored of healing, grab some cream puffs and join a party that needs a nuker. Cream puffs will ensure that your spells will land, more or less, unresisted.
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#66 Aug 28 2009 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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Greetings all WHMs!!

Firstly, a response to the OP so I am somewhat on topic, after reading through the ton of responses (only one was needed really) Tazblackferret you are truly stubborn and your lazy attitude is getting you no where on the boards. You want to play /BLM? then just do it. End of story.

Now being in a similar situation (sort of..) I came to alla after a long break (since 2007) seeking advice or more like confirmation that the new /SCH is truly worth my time to level for my newly decided WHM main.

Secondly, my background, I have never repeat NEVER even considered playing a mage job at all. However, recently discovered it's really a nice change of pace to melee DD/Tanking and am now dedicating my time to it fully.

Started off with SMN and went around defeating all the primes + Fenrir + obtaining carby mitts. Solo to 14 and decided I need to up my /WHM (only 5 at the time).

Solo WHM to 14 and went to play BRD which I found to be awesome fun as well! took that to 27 especially since invites came so easily it was a dream... (melee DD = please form your own PT)

I then found BRD to be rather boring and found myself /WHM all the time and attempting to abuse my taru-gifted-mp pool by spamming cures, bars and -na spells.

Went back to WHM and loving it big time with /SMN to 23 now and thought I asked my friends who suggested /SCH being the current fave and proceeded to lecture me about the benefits of /SCH and why it surpasses other subs so I should really unlock it asap! (Thank you Cid)

Lastly, some questions, the listed benefits of /SCH is astronomical and much like the OP the idea of levelling BLM (1) to 37 as a sub is very... painful. I do not wish to nuke anything I want to heal! so;

1.) as a SCH/WHM would I be able to do so efficiently? and by efficient I mean would I be able to solo heal or will backup be required like SMN/WHM at low levels?

2.) Are SCHs able to equip the majority of WHM gear? so I don't have to waste inventory space (rather limited right now..)

3.) (This one will cause debates) SCH/WHM v.s. WHM/SCH @ 75 for end-game events + meripo, spell benefits and invite rate kgo!








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#67 Aug 28 2009 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kobush*taru wrote:


1.) as a SCH/WHM would I be able to do so efficiently? and by efficient I mean would I be able to solo heal or will backup be required like SMN/WHM at low levels?

2.) Are SCHs able to equip the majority of WHM gear? so I don't have to waste inventory space (rather limited right now..)

3.) (This one will cause debates) SCH/WHM v.s. WHM/SCH @ 75 for end-game events + meripo, spell benefits and invite rate kgo!


1) SCH/WHM works just fine as a main healer at low levels; arguably better very early on because you get Light Arts and Regen before WHM does. You suffer from not getting Cure III until 30, but you shouldn't really be the only mage in a party that low anyway.

2) Most WHM gear before AF is fairly generic. You'll want wands with MND and then Light and Dark staves, and SCH is on the Seer's set so you're good early on. The answer changes at endgame; most of your good choices for SCH will be useable on WHM (Goliard, Yigit) but the Blessed/Noble gear is WHM only (and you'll also want some of the relic armor for both jobs).

3) By 75, most of the SCH I see go /RDM because many of the spells you'd need /WHM for are under Addendum:White. The divergence in invite rates will come as soon as WHM and RDM get haste and you find yourself without it, and that's a sticking point all the way up to merits. You'll likely have to team up with one of these jobs if you want to stay with pure healing, or open yourself to the nuking aspect as well.

For endgame events you're not really going to take a WHM's spot because they're going to be better at it. SCH has plenty of things to do as well, but you have to embrace everything the job can do and work with it.
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#68 Aug 28 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

1) SCH/WHM works just fine as a main healer at low levels; arguably better very early on because you get Light Arts and Regen before WHM does. You suffer from not getting Cure III until 30, but you shouldn't really be the only mage in a party that low anyway.

2) Most WHM gear before AF is fairly generic. You'll want wands with MND and then Light and Dark staves, and SCH is on the Seer's set so you're good early on. The answer changes at endgame; most of your good choices for SCH will be useable on WHM (Goliard, Yigit) but the Blessed/Noble gear is WHM only (and you'll also want some of the relic armor for both jobs).

3) By 75, most of the SCH I see go /RDM because many of the spells you'd need /WHM for are under Addendum:White. The divergence in invite rates will come as soon as WHM and RDM get haste and you find yourself without it, and that's a sticking point all the way up to merits. You'll likely have to team up with one of these jobs if you want to stay with pure healing, or open yourself to the nuking aspect as well.

For endgame events you're not really going to take a WHM's spot because they're going to be better at it. SCH has plenty of things to do as well, but you have to embrace everything the job can do and work with it.


So I get regen earlier than whm? sweet! I have only recently obtained regen and love to spam it in between cures, e.g. yesterday in JP party they mentioned i shouldn't use it as they already had regen from FoV, does it not stack?

Good to hear SCH can use the same gear that would mean I won't be reselling any low level WHM gear until my SCH sub is capped. (going to unlock it after work today and get it to 37 asap)

That just confirms that WHM75 will be my new main over SCH, I really like the idea of melee whm(dont hate me!)for solo/goofing around, blessed set so much hasteee and being all round god of healing /cheer! Despite normally teaming up with RDMs in meripos I still regard WHM as the best healer hands down.

**EDIT: new question, any rare/ex gear worth camping NMs for before <L50? There's a pilgrim(sp?) wand I need to get but that's all I have on my to-do list.



Edited, Aug 29th 2009 4:51am by Kobush*taru
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#69 Aug 29 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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Kobush*taru wrote:
**EDIT: new question, any rare/ex gear worth camping NMs for before <L50? There's a pilgrim(sp?) wand I need to get but that's all I have on my to-do list.

Edited, Aug 29th 2009 4:51am by Kobush*taru



Here's a list that I came up with. Might be missing a few good NM items, but I think I got most of them:

Lv10 Pilgrim's Wand (Nunyenunc, West Sarutabaruta)
Lv25 Carect Ring (Stubborn Dredvodd, Phanauet Channel)
Lv25 Mycophile Cuffs (Mycophile, Carpenter's Landing)
Lv30 Tortoise Shield (Bo'Who Warmonger, Pashhow Marshlands)
Lv40 Vilma's Ring (Rose Garden or Voluptuous Vilma, Yuhtunga Jungle)
Lv41 Rain Hat (Noble Mold, Sanctuary of Zi'Tah)
Lv42 Frog Trousers (Fyuu the Seabellow, Sea Serpent Grotto)
Lv47 Moldavite Earring (Mysticmaker Profblix, Labyrinth of Onzozo)
Lv50 Glamor Jupon (Fomor Red Mage, Phomiuna Aqueducts and Sacrarium) [This is worth getting if you take SCH to 50+]


I only included gear that is camped from NMs and the like. Some gear, such as Kshama Ring No. 9, is worth trying to get if you can but are obtained by other means.

Good luck!

Edited, Aug 30th 2009 8:55am by Kaetara
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#70 Aug 29 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Here's a list that I came up with. Might be missing a few good NM items, but I think I got most of them:

Lv10 Pilgrim's Wand (Nunyenunc, West Sarutabaruta)
Lv25 Carect Ring (Stubborn Dredvodd, Phanauet Channel)
Lv25 Mycophile Cuffs (Mycophile, Carpenter's Landing)
Lv40 Vilma's Ring (Rose Garden or Voluptuous Vilma, Yuhtunga Jungle)
Lv41 Rain Hat (Noble Mold, Sanctuary of Zi'Tah)
Lv42 Frog Trousers (Fyuu the Seabellow, Sea Serpent Grotto)
Lv47 Moldavite Earring (Mysticmaker Profblix, Labyrinth of Onzozo)


I only included gear that is camped from NMs and the like. Some gear, such as Kshama Ring No. 9, is worth trying to get if you can but are obtained by other means.

Good luck!


Thanks for the list! I will get to work on it maybe once my SCH reaches 25 at the least I'd think.
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#71 Aug 29 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kobush*taru wrote:
So I get regen earlier than whm? sweet! I have only recently obtained regen and love to spam it in between cures, e.g. yesterday in JP party they mentioned i shouldn't use it as they already had regen from FoV, does it not stack?


No, FoV regen/refresh are lower potency but use the same status icon so your casts on them won't overwrite it. If it were a NA melee who's going to be taking a lot of damage I would probably explain to them that your spell is 5 times stronger and will help them survive easier (assuming you've gotten your own refresh from the Field Manual and can promise to keep regen on him/her close to fulltime). It's one of those situations where neither person is really wrong; I can't fault someone for bringing their own regen since I'm sure they've been through parties where the healer doesn't bother to use it at all. The math is certainly in your favor though.

Rated up the NM list. Some of those are going to be harder than others. If you're just planning on going to 37, I'd start off with Pilgrim's Wand (100% drop) and Mycophile Cuffs (forced pop from auction house mushrooms).
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#72 Aug 29 2009 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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No, FoV regen/refresh are lower potency but use the same status icon so your casts on them won't overwrite it. If it were a NA melee who's going to be taking a lot of damage I would probably explain to them that your spell is 5 times stronger and will help them survive easier (assuming you've gotten your own refresh from the Field Manual and can promise to keep regen on him/her close to fulltime). It's one of those situations where neither person is really wrong; I can't fault someone for bringing their own regen since I'm sure they've been through parties where the healer doesn't bother to use it at all. The math is certainly in your favor though.

Rated up the NM list. Some of those are going to be harder than others. If you're just planning on going to 37, I'd start off with Pilgrim's Wand (100% drop) and Mycophile Cuffs (forced pop from auction house mushrooms).


I will keep that regen fact in mind next time I heal. I am currently leveling SCH and its at 15. I haven't had much of a chance to heal though been nuking more since we have 4 mages in this dunes party.. fun!

The NMs listed look pretty good but like I said in the other post I probably won't be dealing with them until SCH is at least 25 so I can go back to WHM if I get bored of SCH. Otherwise I might just finish it off to 37.

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#73 Aug 30 2009 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
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Wow.. I'm dumb. I forgot a really good NM on my list. I've added it in now.
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#74 Aug 30 2009 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Lv25 Mycophile Cuffs (Mycophile, Carpenter's Landing)


I don't have access to the Aquadects unfortunately... sea access zilch. :(

But a quick update SCH now 22! and Mycophile Cuffs 1/2 boom!
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#75Smelly, Posted: Sep 18 2009 at 3:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hey dudes,
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