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/sch and newly back to WHMFollow

#27 Jul 09 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I was trying to farm a monastic cavern coffer key on my whm a coupla week ago, those guys are just a nightmare to blinktank and I ended up cheaping out on it. Really makes me wish I hadn't gimped on my RDM32 sub and just finished the **** thing off :P (woulda been so much better than what I was using xD)
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#28 Jul 10 2009 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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If you lack the ambition to level such an obviously superior subjob for your WHM, you're probably going to be a ****** WHM anyways.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#29Tazblackferret, Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 2:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) the sub does not determine the skill of the player it only grants bonus's to the job itself
#30 Jul 10 2009 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
the sub does not determine the skill of the player it only grants bonus's to the job itself

It doesn't determine the skill of the player, but it certainly is indicative. If he doesn't care enough about WHM to level a vastly superior subjob, then odds are very good he won't be a very attentive healer either. I believe that was the point Chewzer was alluding to.

So my response to the OP would be no, you don't need it as soon as you hit 70. You need it as soon as you hit 20. If WHM is your first job, it likely won't be available that early, but make a point to get it ASAP. If you are even approaching 70 without SCH leveled, you are seriously neglecting your job.
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#31Stellaluna, Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 8:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'd think Sublimation would be the defining feature for me. Auto Refresh is the only real other form of MP recovery as a subjob, and Summoner is definitely the most lackluster of the possible subjobs. I've got Scholar 31 and working on getting it up as fast as I can at the moment.
#32 Jul 10 2009 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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Stellaluna wrote:
And by the way, Elemental Seal doesn't affect Repose. Divine Seal does.


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Elemental_Seal

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Divine_Seal

I'm afraid you're 100% wrong on this one :/
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#33 Jul 11 2009 at 2:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And by the way, Elemental Seal doesn't affect Repose. Divine Seal does.


Elemental Seal affects any offensive magic spell, actually (including Repose). Haven't you ever heard of BRD/BLMs using ES to stick Elegy on resistant HNM? It's not just for black magic.

Divine Seal doesn't do anything for Repose, but I would still be interested in hearing what you THINK it does.

Edited, Jul 11th 2009 6:37am by Fynlar
#34 Jul 11 2009 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
If you lack the ambition to level such an obviously superior subjob for your WHM, you're probably going to be a sh*tty WHM anyways.
I don't lack the ambition - I lack the "oh, this is actually fun to level" at present. (SCH18 and considering working on it again here over the weekend. It's almost as painful to level as BLM was.)
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#35Tazblackferret, Posted: Jul 11 2009 at 3:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) u can say i'm a sh*tty whm but my sub don't make me sh*tty i know how to play my job and and very attentive i pay attention to everything i'm supposed i'm i havn't even had anyone die yet so far and i'm 25 atm dinged today. seems to me everyone onthe forum likes to follow one build. like whm/sch. or war/nin when /drg /thf or /sam would be awesome subs as well, or thf/nin nin is not the only good sub for thf people can follow everyone else who likes to use one build but i'd rather play it my way and that does not make me sh*tty so @#%^ u b/c ur just a **** anyways all this started b/c i asked if blm was acceptable i didn't ask for this big discussion on sch i ask about blm that was it but yall can play how yall want ^^ SMILE :)
#36Tazblackferret, Posted: Jul 11 2009 at 3:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) and for those who like grammar i hope u enjoy my one or two sentence paragraph ^^
#37 Jul 11 2009 at 3:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
i still don't how to play my job
This would be the obvious problem.

EDIT to help: BLM is perfectly fine as a sub if WHM is your first mage job to 30. (Yes, you should unlock SCH anyway before you start, if possible; that said, thousands of WHMs leveled as WHM/BLM before SCH was available, it works just fine to carry you to 30. Once you hit WHM30, then start leveling SCH.)

Edited, Jul 11th 2009 4:42am by MDenham
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#38 Jul 11 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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yeah basically from a pure numbers pov:

/blm save 7%ish average mp on spells
/sch save 16%ish average mp on spells
.....get ~10% fast cast
.....get 2mp/tick self-refresh
.....get JA that allow to save 50% mp cost on next spell
..........................half cast / recast time on next spell (lv50)
.....every: 4min (lv20)
............2min (lv60)

so basically /sch is like /blm 3-4 times atleast when it comes to healing efficiency / stamina,
/blm is still a decent subjob and should be fine for most purposes (you'll want it for tele taxiing if you're just starting out anyway)
/blm doesn't compare to /sch when it comes to healing only because /sch really is all that.

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#39 Jul 12 2009 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
seems to me everyone onthe forum likes to follow one build. like whm/sch.


Yeah. We all love WHM/SCH because it's the cool thing to do. Not because of it's tremendous advantages which have been repeated numerous times in this thread alone.

Tazblackferret wrote:
u can say i'm a sh*tty whm but my sub don't make me sh*tty

Tazblackferret wrote:
all this started b/c i asked if blm was acceptable


Nobody said you're ****** because of your sub. I said you're probably ****** since you lack the ambition to level a subjob that so blatantly gives you and your parties an advantage.

Tazblackferret wrote:
i didn't ask for this big discussion on sch


No, you didn't. But perhaps you should check the title of the thread and the original post.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#40 Jul 14 2009 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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/SCH is definatly a must now.

Although if you want to be a good WHM, you will need /blm without a doubt, there are situations where you'll want it, sky and sea typically depending on what other jobs you have with you.

I use /smn randomly for limbus for carby pulling when we small man, i do have to admit i felt it when i was /smn over /blm and it's even worse over /sch. /Smn just felt too inferior, like something was missing, auto-refresh as nice but the additional enfeebling spells have their benefits.

/RDM is situational, i use it for stuff where i'll be tanking damage (Blitzkrieg anybody?) and when i need grav.

I'm not 100% sure on these figures but it's no more than 2-3 out, but I have 293 enfeebling magic on any sub and +7 magic acc. On /sch i have 323 with +7 m.acc. (Also HQ staves for more acc). So i can get alot of milage out of BLM sub as spells will stick for me without much of an issue. I much prefer to have sleep and repose over repose only from /smn. /smn sucks for limbus in that regard where alot of stuff just won't sleep to light based spells.

Being versatile and flexible is always a pro but end answer simple is /sch all the way from 20, you can sub anything before 20 as there's not really any benefits to any of the subs before then.

Order of importance...
SCH > BLM > SMN > RDM > BLU/NIN/BRD/whatever else
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#41 Jul 14 2009 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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Tazblackferret wrote:
and for those who like grammar i hope u enjoy my one or two sentence paragraph ^^

Edited, Jul 11th 2009 7:31am by Tazblackferret


Hi Taz,

From your posts, it sounds as

A) you really dont want to level a subjob and
B) you may not have levelled a job 1-37 in a loooong time.

Low level jobs are 100% easier to level now, particularly with FoV, the adjustments to signet, and level sync. If the horrors of getting a job 1-37 years ago are still fresh in your mind, know its a MUCH MUCH less painful event nowadays.

But even if it was just as hard as it was 2 years ago....../sch is still worth it ^^

EDIT: Wait, you are WHM 25? If you are planning on getting WHM to just 37, /sch may not be worth it for you. But if you plan on 75, /sch is ^^

Edited, Jul 14th 2009 8:42am by ManifestOfKujata
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#42 Jul 14 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Good
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Taz.. I must ask a serious question..

Why in the world would you even bother asking if /BLM was "acceptable", seeing as you apparently have no intention of levelling /SCH anyway? If you're going to be stubborn and not accept the collective advice of a lot of WHMs who are much higher level than you are, then why bother asking for their advice or opinion?

Don't waste our time.

Believe me, I'm 75whm and I am pretty adamant about using /SCH for anything I do involving group play. It's just a terrific support job that does exactly that.. it supports your main job. No other support job in this game comes close to offering the benefit that /SCH does, and no amount of your disdain for levelling "yet another subjob" will ever change that.

If you're serious about being a WHM, then level SCH to 37 at a minimum. Your efforts will be rewarded.
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#43 Jul 14 2009 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Murzade wrote:
Order of importance...
SCH > BLM > SMN > RDM > BLU/NIN/BRD/whatever else
Personally, I would list it as:
1: /SCH
2: /NIN
3: /BLM












4: /RDM























5: /SMN ... actually, just don't ever level this for a sub for WHM anymore.
6: Everything else
#44 Jul 14 2009 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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JingWoo wrote:
Personally, I would list it as:
1: /SCH
2: /NIN
3: /BLM
4: /RDM
5: /SAM
6: /DRK
7: Everything else
Level /SAM for situations where you want to melee with a staff. Level DRK as a somewhat melee-friendlier /BLM sub (better damage, Stun, but no spikes).

Both are fairly low-priority, but come ahead of pretty much every other melee sub (and SMN).
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#45 Jul 14 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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I find it funny that some ppl think that leveling sch to "subjob status" is so dreadful of a thought that they wouldn't consider doing it. Especially considering your main is already Whm. From 1-37 on Sch you can almost literally do everything you did from 1-37 as Whm. Things on sch don't drastically change that much until level 35(sublimation) and level 40(accession). By then.. your already done.

Does having 1-2 stratagems from level 10-37 on Sch intimidate you so much to dissuade you out of leveling it?

ManifestOfKujata wrote:
A) you really dont want to level a subjob and
B) you may not have levelled a job 1-37 in a loooong time.


This seems to really be right on the bubble i would say. With that said, and this is not to sound elitist, a person without all necessary subjobs at their disposal is a sub par player. Their will always be instances where a diff sub would be more efficient. This isnt to say you dont play your job "well", but playing the job well in comparison to what your full potential is... Come on, doesn't take a genius to point out that you "work smarter, not harder". And I'm sure all those Whm's who have taken the time to level /sch can attest to how much easier it makes things. Why not take all the benefits you possible can to improve your character/job, um.. isnt that sorta the point, to improve?
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#46 Jul 15 2009 at 4:03 AM Rating: Default
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after blm to 75 and rdm to 37 taking sch to 37 is just doing the same stuff i've been doing already and i'd rather not do it
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#47 Jul 15 2009 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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Tazblackferret wrote:
after blm to 75 and rdm to 37 taking sch to 37 is just doing the same stuff i've been doing already and i'd rather not do it


The fact that it is "just doing the same stuff you've been doing" pretty much defeats your own argument. There's nothing difficult about it. You probably already have gear available for it. You're just being outright lazy and showing the entire playerbase that you don't care enough to bother.

So.. why do you keep coming back here? I don't care if you'd rather not do it. That's not the point. The point is that you would benefit if you did.

If you're just gonna keep coming back whining at us about how you don't want to level another support job, then just stop coming back. If you don't want to take the advice of myself and others, then don't. I honestly don't care if you want to gimp yourself. Your decisions have absolutely no impact on me or my reputation whatsoever.

You asked if /BLM wasn't acceptable. Most people said you should get /SCH ASAP. You said you didn't want to. So people explained the benefits. Then you said you didn't want to. So people continued to argue the benefits. So you said you didn't want to. See where this is going?

You have the information you requested. You have the arguments supporting the information you requested. Now take the advice or leave it, and for God's sake please don't keep coming here complaining about not wanting to level another job. No one cares about your irrelevancies.

Have a nice day.
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#48 Jul 15 2009 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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i keep replying b/c people keep posting and like i already stated i admited to being lazy ^^ and i'm not whing just stating my point
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#49 Jul 15 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Tazblackferret wrote:
i keep replying b/c people keep posting and like i already stated i admited to being lazy ^^ and i'm not whing just stating my point


What point? You have no point. You don't even have the beginnings of a point.

A point would be to say, "I don't think that /SCH is worth the trouble because /BLM offers me (insert benefits here), which I think outweighs the use of /SCH.", and then debating that point. You're just saying that you don't want to do it, ergo you are whining. Case in point:

Parent: "Son, go clean your room. It's a pigsty."
Child: "But I dun wanna!"
Parent: "Son, eat your vegetables."
Child: "But I dun wanna!"

You're making absolutely no positive or progressive argument about why /SCH isn't worth the effort to take to 37, or why you feel that a different sub is on equal or better ground than /SCH. You're just incessantly coming back to this thread reaffirming that, like the child, "you dun wanna".

No one cares that "you dun wanna". That "argument", if you wish to call it thus even though the thought of that is laughable, does not refute or counter any of the vast multitude of benefits that others have noted and makes no semblance of a point in favor of an alternate subjob.

As I said before, if you don't want to take others' advice, then don't take it and just go away. We can't force you to go level your SCH like a good little WHM, and returning here continuously telling us how you don't want to level SCH serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

Don't waste everyone's time.
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Name: Kaetara Sagitta Race: Seeker of the Sun Miqo'te Nation: Limsa Lominsa
DoW/M: 50THM 50SEN 48CON 27ARC
DoL: 13BOT
DoH: 15WVR 12TAN


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#50 Jul 15 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Jesus christ, get off his *** already.
#51Tazblackferret, Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 1:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) regardless of what the name of the thread is why don't u actually try reading my ******* question. all i asked is if /blm is acceptable meaning is it still ok to use blm as a sub i didn't ask about /sch i didn't say sch wasn't good it was a ******* yes/no question that got drawn into some stupid debate
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