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/sch and newly back to WHMFollow

#1 Jul 02 2009 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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So I'm finally back to leveling WHM and was wondering how important it was to have SCH as a subjob. Will I need it as soon as I hit 70? Before that? Just wondering because I really don't feel like leveling a new subjob after my brutal experience with BLM.
#2 Jul 02 2009 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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From what I have gathered, /sch is *The* subjob for white mage from the moment you can use Light arts.

Anyone care to correct me on this?
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#3 Jul 02 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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You are correct, as far as mathematical data states.
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#4 Jul 07 2009 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Sublimation and the stratagems (like Celerity>Haste for example) are also invaluable.
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#5 Jul 07 2009 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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So to answer your question directly, it's very important. Would you level NIN or PLD without WAR sub? I don't even consider it optional anymore.
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#6 Jul 07 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Default
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/blm not accetable for a taru whm anymore?
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#7 Jul 07 2009 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Race isn't important in your choice of subjobs; /sch is clearly superior for a variety of reasons unrelated to race.

"Acceptable" can be interpreted differently. Being realistic, you will probably get some invites on /blm for the same reason you'd get invites as brd/anything sporting terrible gear: DD jobs outnumber support jobs and always will. Given the choice of taking a subpar healer or none at all, there will be people who would still invite you.

This doesn't mean it's acceptable. You're still not performing at an ideal level, and you won't be taken seriously for good merit parties or good endgame shells using a subjob that was only the standard several years ago because there wasn't anything better.
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#8 Jul 07 2009 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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Well don't be too harsh on the new WHM's who might not have access to advanced jobs. I would expect /SCH from any WHM over the level of 40, because by then its easy to unlock and level.
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#9Tazblackferret, Posted: Jul 08 2009 at 3:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i'm not saying /sch isn't better but i already have blm at 75 and i just don't feel like taking the time to lvl another sub if i can use the one i already have i also have rdm at 37 so to lvl another sub it just tiresome
#10 Jul 08 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
i'm not saying /sch isn't better but i already have blm at 75 and i just don't feel like taking the time to lvl another sub if i can use the one i already have


WHM/BLM is OK for exp use, IMO. However, if above Lv.20 and two WHMs seeking, one has /SCH, the other one does not, guess which would be more welcomed?

I do not know a single WHM with /SCH available who would rather be on any SJ other than /SCH by default. Every good WHM I know has /SCH, and uses it. Not that /BLM and /SMN are bad or useless, but WHM and /SCH are like peanut butter and jelly in a sandwich; it's an instant classic.

It takes just 143,250 experience points to get to Lv.37, but 845,350 experience points to Lv.75. Think of the SCH support job as merely ~17% more effort to get your WHM right.
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#11 Jul 08 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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By no means am I a Whm. I am however a Sch 75 with a lot of healing experience.

A couple things to keep in mind,

*Mp recovery > Max mp(this is comparison to the small mp gain from /blm, /smn)
*The ability to be self-sufficient without need of Rdm refresh makes things that much easier for everyone all around.
*/blm offers warp, escape, little more mp, spike spells, conserve mp, drain/aspir(capped skill), tractor, specific black magic debuffs
*/smn offers more mp, auto-refresh, and a silly lil pet...

Though this is not to discourage those subjobs, because by no means are they bad subs, but in comparisson to /sch they are inferior, at least in situation where their specific abilities aren't needed.(every event calls for different subs)

/sch offers,

*Conserve MP
*aspir/drain(256 skill under dark arts)
*sublimation(2mp tick stored)
*reduced mp cost for all white magic spells while under light arts(this can add up a lot fast)
*2 stratagems with 2min timers. (This perk isnt the most amazing because of the recasts, but when saved for your big spells, curaga's, cure4-5, raise. It can save you huge chunks of mp)
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#12 Jul 08 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
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/sch does look nice i just hate lvling subs and i'd have to lvl yet another sub lol i'm not saying anything bad about it
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#13 Jul 08 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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/BLM is honestly barely giving you anything but Conserve MP. Almost nothing else. That's barely even a subjob. You might as well just be WHM 75 with no subjob, the difference is THAT huge. I really think that if you intend on playing WHM a fair amount, then you need to level it. If you don't plan on really doing much, healing for some random events for a social shell, raising people or the odd PLing session, then okay.

If you really intend to do anything else with the job, you should level SCH to 37. It is just as bad as a NIN without /WAR, a RDM without /BLM and /WHM, it's just unbelievably beneficial. It was designed by Square with WHM completely in mind, and as a subjob, it fits like a glove.

I really wouldn't even think of it as like, oh the mean forum guys are so judgmental that they are forcing me to level it. If you level it, you will be the one who benefits, not us. And believe me, you will be extremely happy with it if you devote the time necessary to get over the learning curve and macro adjustments that are necessary to use the new stuff you get. It's like night and day. And really, it makes the job 10x as fun for me.
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Though this is not to discourage those subjobs, because by no means are they bad subs
Personally, I've always thought /BLM was a terrible sub and have always discouraged it. It barely even qualifies as a subjob for WHM, you get a job trait and that's about it. I was always /SMN before SCH was available. Auto-Refresh was always better. Having Repose put the final nail in the coffin of /BLM forever for me.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:17pm by JingWoo
#14 Jul 08 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
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really jing? I think ES repose is one of the few combinations you'll genuinely need /blm for in endgame? :P

but yeah once you get used to using penury curaga 4s instead of paying any attention whatsoever 90% of the time you'll come to realise just how badass /sch is :P
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#15 Jul 08 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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ZiGG wrote:
really jing? I think ES repose is one of the few combinations you'll genuinely need /blm for in endgame?
I suppose. I still think it's nice to have just for getting around. But yeah, I've never even cast Elemental Seal Repose. I haven't done anything on /BLM except warp myself for almost 2 years. I never liked it.
#16 Jul 08 2009 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whm/Blm, Smn and Rdm are all Situationally useful.

Whm/Sch will outpreform all 3 about 90% of the time.

Whm/Sch gets Conserve Mp as well as Sublimation which is effectivly a 2mp/tic Mp store. This is far better then what Blm or Smn can offer.

Rdm offers nothing in terms on Mp regeneration.

Whm/Sch will also have far better Enf, Enf and Dark skills. (ele as well, but you won't really use that)

You get Drain and Aspir as /Sch, just like /Blm, but more powerful since Dark arts does not limit you to 1/2 capped Dark magic skill like Blm does.

Whm/Blm is the BEST tele-taxi, and is useful for escapeing from places like Sky. But unles you need something to stick like in the ToAU 16 fight or against Happy caster(you need elemental seal for those) Blm will be outpreformed by Sch.

If you have Blm leveled, you Can use it, but thats kinda like saying, well i'll put it in Whm terms.

Useing Blm over Sch is like a Whm useing a Dark Staff over a light Staff to cast their cures. It won't exactly Hurt anything, but Sch is just that much better.
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#17 Jul 08 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
really jing? I think ES repose is one of the few combinations you'll genuinely need /blm for in endgame?


More like ES Sleepga, but as far as endgame goes that's usually covered by someone else if needed. RDM loses less by making their sub /BLM than a WHM would, and RDM also has a far better chance to stick Sleepga without ES than a WHM would anyway. There are also BLMs who come with ES Sleepga 2 regardless of their sub.

For most targets on which dark-based sleep will not work but light-based sleeps will, Repose tends to work well enough that it often won't need ES.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:54pm by Fynlar
#18 Jul 08 2009 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am currently leveling whm, I just hit 51 yesterday. I have occasionally looked for party on whm/blm just so I could tele-taxi people for gil.

I can say without hesitation that the invites come far faster when looking on whm/sch. It is such an overwhelming difference that I don't even bother to lfp on whm/blm anymore. From a use standpoint, whm/sch, even at my level, is much more powerful than whm/blm.
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#19 Jul 08 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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I wish some of the whm's in my Linkshell would listen to me about /sch.

Not trying to be rude, and i express as much to my ls mates, But not having it as an almost full time sub is less efficient and doesn't live up to your full potential.

I normally get told to stfu because im not a whm and i dont know how the job works... lol. meh~
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#20 Jul 08 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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My WHM gets lots of invites regardless of my sub. In fact, most of the time when I get them it's on /BLM, mainly when I am just using my WHM as a transportation aid.

Most people are not aware of just how much /SCH contributes to the job. Then again, most people don't care. They just want heals/Haste, and WHM has them regardless of sub.

Quote:
I normally get told to stfu because im not a whm and i dont know how the job works... lol. meh~


That argument is so 2005 and never holds water with me. I would not want to be part of a linkshell that primarily thinks that way, especially if that is the argument held by the shell's leaders.
#21 Jul 08 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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well all i can say is too each there own b/c the game was built on choices it is up to the person on what sub they would like to use all the subs have there uses based on the persons playstyle
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#22 Jul 08 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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well all i can say is too each there own b/c the game was built on choices it is up to the person on what sub they would like to use all the subs have there uses based on the persons playstyle


As long as you actually accept the fact that you are playing gimped compared to how you could otherwise be with /SCH available (and that you don't try to say that /BLM is better for you due to "your playstyle" or some crap like that), fine with us.

Laziness is one thing; denying pure facts is another.
#23 Jul 08 2009 at 6:05 PM Rating: Default
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i already admitted to being lazy on lvling a sub but i guess i shouldn't be in a hurry to get to 75 and lvl sch since spells will cost less under light arts and stuff like that i just have to unlock sch and start from lvl one again
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#24 Jul 09 2009 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
i already admitted to being lazy on lvling a sub but i guess i shouldn't be in a hurry to get to 75 and lvl sch since spells will cost less under light arts and stuff like that i just have to unlock sch and start from lvl one again


It's like punctuations; not hard and not all that time consuming, once you've set your mind to do it (right).
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#25 Jul 09 2009 at 1:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you want a full explanation of what's good and bad about our various subjobs, this http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=1;mid=123798235086092921;num=33;page=1 is a useful thread.
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#26 Jul 09 2009 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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JingWoo wrote:
ZiGG wrote:
really jing? I think ES repose is one of the few combinations you'll genuinely need /blm for in endgame?
I suppose. I still think it's nice to have just for getting around. But yeah, I've never even cast Elemental Seal Repose. I haven't done anything on /BLM except warp myself for almost 2 years. I never liked it.
I prefer /blm for soloing, but that's just because of Blind and the spikes spell of your choice. (And better damage on the Holy lazors.)
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