/sch and newly back to WHMFollow

So I'm finally back to leveling WHM and was wondering how important it was to have SCH as a subjob. Will I need it as soon as I hit 70? Before that? Just wondering because I really don't feel like leveling a new subjob after my brutal experience with BLM.

You are correct, as far as mathematical data states.

So to answer your question directly, it's very important. Would you level NIN or PLD without WAR sub? I don't even consider it optional anymore.

Race isn't important in your choice of subjobs; /sch is clearly superior for a variety of reasons unrelated to race.

"Acceptable" can be interpreted differently. Being realistic, you will probably get some invites on /blm for the same reason you'd get invites as brd/anything sporting terrible gear: DD jobs outnumber support jobs and always will. Given the choice of taking a subpar healer or none at all, there will be people who would still invite you.

This doesn't mean it's acceptable. You're still not performing at an ideal level, and you won't be taken seriously for good merit parties or good endgame shells using a subjob that was only the standard several years ago because there wasn't anything better.

By no means am I a Whm. I am however a Sch 75 with a lot of healing experience.

A couple things to keep in mind,

*Mp recovery > Max mp(this is comparison to the small mp gain from /blm, /smn)
*The ability to be self-sufficient without need of Rdm refresh makes things that much easier for everyone all around.
*/blm offers warp, escape, little more mp, spike spells, conserve mp, drain/aspir(capped skill), tractor, specific black magic debuffs
*/smn offers more mp, auto-refresh, and a silly lil pet...

Though this is not to discourage those subjobs, because by no means are they bad subs, but in comparisson to /sch they are inferior, at least in situation where their specific abilities aren't needed.(every event calls for different subs)

/sch offers,

*Conserve MP
*aspir/drain(256 skill under dark arts)
*sublimation(2mp tick stored)
*reduced mp cost for all white magic spells while under light arts(this can add up a lot fast)
*2 stratagems with 2min timers. (This perk isnt the most amazing because of the recasts, but when saved for your big spells, curaga's, cure4-5, raise. It can save you huge chunks of mp)

/BLM is honestly barely giving you anything but Conserve MP. Almost nothing else. That's barely even a subjob. You might as well just be WHM 75 with no subjob, the difference is THAT huge. I really think that if you intend on playing WHM a fair amount, then you need to level it. If you don't plan on really doing much, healing for some random events for a social shell, raising people or the odd PLing session, then okay.

If you really intend to do anything else with the job, you should level SCH to 37. It is just as bad as a NIN without /WAR, a RDM without /BLM and /WHM, it's just unbelievably beneficial. It was designed by Square with WHM completely in mind, and as a subjob, it fits like a glove.

I really wouldn't even think of it as like, oh the mean forum guys are so judgmental that they are forcing me to level it. If you level it, you will be the one who benefits, not us. And believe me, you will be extremely happy with it if you devote the time necessary to get over the learning curve and macro adjustments that are necessary to use the new stuff you get. It's like night and day. And really, it makes the job 10x as fun for me.
Personally, I've always thought /BLM was a terrible sub and have always discouraged it. It barely even qualifies as a subjob for WHM, you get a job trait and that's about it. I was always /SMN before SCH was available. Auto-Refresh was always better. Having Repose put the final nail in the coffin of /BLM forever for me.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:17pm by JingWoo

I suppose. I still think it's nice to have just for getting around. But yeah, I've never even cast Elemental Seal Repose. I haven't done anything on /BLM except warp myself for almost 2 years. I never liked it.

More like ES Sleepga, but as far as endgame goes that's usually covered by someone else if needed. RDM loses less by making their sub /BLM than a WHM would, and RDM also has a far better chance to stick Sleepga without ES than a WHM would anyway. There are also BLMs who come with ES Sleepga 2 regardless of their sub.

For most targets on which dark-based sleep will not work but light-based sleeps will, Repose tends to work well enough that it often won't need ES.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:54pm by Fynlar

I wish some of the whm's in my Linkshell would listen to me about /sch.

Not trying to be rude, and i express as much to my ls mates, But not having it as an almost full time sub is less efficient and doesn't live up to your full potential.

I normally get told to stfu because im not a whm and i dont know how the job works... lol. meh~

well all i can say is too each there own b/c the game was built on choices it is up to the person on what sub they would like to use all the subs have there uses based on the persons playstyle

i already admitted to being lazy on lvling a sub but i guess i shouldn't be in a hurry to get to 75 and lvl sch since spells will cost less under light arts and stuff like that i just have to unlock sch and start from lvl one again

If you want a full explanation of what's good and bad about our various subjobs, this http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=1;mid=123798235086092921;num=33;page=1 is a useful thread.

I was trying to farm a monastic cavern coffer key on my whm a coupla week ago, those guys are just a nightmare to blinktank and I ended up cheaping out on it. Really makes me wish I hadn't gimped on my RDM32 sub and just finished the damn thing off :P (woulda been so much better than what I was using xD)

Elemental Seal affects any offensive magic spell, actually (including Repose). Haven't you ever heard of BRD/BLMs using ES to stick Elegy on resistant HNM? It's not just for black magic.

Divine Seal doesn't do anything for Repose, but I would still be interested in hearing what you THINK it does.

Edited, Jul 11th 2009 6:37am by Fynlar

This would be the obvious problem.

EDIT to help: BLM is perfectly fine as a sub if WHM is your first mage job to 30. (Yes, you should unlock SCH anyway before you start, if possible; that said, thousands of WHMs leveled as WHM/BLM before SCH was available, it works just fine to carry you to 30. Once you hit WHM30, then start leveling SCH.)

Edited, Jul 11th 2009 4:42am by MDenham

Yeah. We all love WHM/SCH because it's the cool thing to do. Not because of it's tremendous advantages which have been repeated numerous times in this thread alone.




Nobody said you're sh*tty because of your sub. I said you're probably sh*tty since you lack the ambition to level a subjob that so blatantly gives you and your parties an advantage.



No, you didn't. But perhaps you should check the title of the thread and the original post.

Hi Taz,

From your posts, it sounds as

A) you really dont want to level a subjob and
B) you may not have levelled a job 1-37 in a loooong time.

Low level jobs are 100% easier to level now, particularly with FoV, the adjustments to signet, and level sync. If the horrors of getting a job 1-37 years ago are still fresh in your mind, know its a MUCH MUCH less painful event nowadays.

But even if it was just as hard as it was 2 years ago....../sch is still worth it ^^

EDIT: Wait, you are WHM 25? If you are planning on getting WHM to just 37, /sch may not be worth it for you. But if you plan on 75, /sch is ^^

Edited, Jul 14th 2009 8:42am by ManifestOfKujata

Personally, I would list it as:
1: /SCH
2: /NIN
3: /BLM












4: /RDM























5: /SMN ... actually, just don't ever level this for a sub for WHM anymore.
6: Everything else

I find it funny that some ppl think that leveling sch to "subjob status" is so dreadful of a thought that they wouldn't consider doing it. Especially considering your main is already Whm. From 1-37 on Sch you can almost literally do everything you did from 1-37 as Whm. Things on sch don't drastically change that much until level 35(sublimation) and level 40(accession). By then.. your already done.

Does having 1-2 stratagems from level 10-37 on Sch intimidate you so much to dissuade you out of leveling it?



This seems to really be right on the bubble i would say. With that said, and this is not to sound elitist, a person without all necessary subjobs at their disposal is a sub par player. Their will always be instances where a diff sub would be more efficient. This isnt to say you dont play your job "well", but playing the job well in comparison to what your full potential is... Come on, doesn't take a genius to point out that you "work smarter, not harder". And I'm sure all those Whm's who have taken the time to level /sch can attest to how much easier it makes things. Why not take all the benefits you possible can to improve your character/job, um.. isnt that sorta the point, to improve?

The fact that it is "just doing the same stuff you've been doing" pretty much defeats your own argument. There's nothing difficult about it. You probably already have gear available for it. You're just being outright lazy and showing the entire playerbase that you don't care enough to bother.

So.. why do you keep coming back here? I don't care if you'd rather not do it. That's not the point. The point is that you would benefit if you did.

If you're just gonna keep coming back whining at us about how you don't want to level another support job, then just stop coming back. If you don't want to take the advice of myself and others, then don't. I honestly don't care if you want to gimp yourself. Your decisions have absolutely no impact on me or my reputation whatsoever.

You asked if /BLM wasn't acceptable. Most people said you should get /SCH ASAP. You said you didn't want to. So people explained the benefits. Then you said you didn't want to. So people continued to argue the benefits. So you said you didn't want to. See where this is going?

You have the information you requested. You have the arguments supporting the information you requested. Now take the advice or leave it, and for God's sake please don't keep coming here complaining about not wanting to level another job. No one cares about your irrelevancies.

Have a nice day.

What point? You have no point. You don't even have the beginnings of a point.

A point would be to say, "I don't think that /SCH is worth the trouble because /BLM offers me (insert benefits here), which I think outweighs the use of /SCH.", and then debating that point. You're just saying that you don't want to do it, ergo you are whining. Case in point:

Parent: "Son, go clean your room. It's a pigsty."
Child: "But I dun wanna!"
Parent: "Son, eat your vegetables."
Child: "But I dun wanna!"

You're making absolutely no positive or progressive argument about why /SCH isn't worth the effort to take to 37, or why you feel that a different sub is on equal or better ground than /SCH. You're just incessantly coming back to this thread reaffirming that, like the child, "you dun wanna".

No one cares that "you dun wanna". That "argument", if you wish to call it thus even though the thought of that is laughable, does not refute or counter any of the vast multitude of benefits that others have noted and makes no semblance of a point in favor of an alternate subjob.

As I said before, if you don't want to take others' advice, then don't take it and just go away. We can't force you to go level your SCH like a good little WHM, and returning here continuously telling us how you don't want to level SCH serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

Don't waste everyone's time.