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Cure Cast Time - Detailed Testing (10/17/10)Follow

#1 Mar 21 2008 at 2:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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91 posts
( EDIT | 05/13/08 | Corrections Made - First Tier is 17% Cast Reduction and not 20%; Marduk's Jubbah has a Cast Reduction of 5% and not 4% )
( EDIT | 04/30/08 | Added more 'Questions and Answers' )
( EDIT | 04/29/08 | Cleaned Data Table; Clarified Presented Information; Added 'Questions and Answers' Section )
( EDIT | 03/28/08 | Added SCH/RDM Accession 'Curaga' tests. )
( EDIT | 05/05/10 | Added new data from previously untested gear sets. )


[ Foreword ]

Recently I have wholeheartedly dedicated myself to speed up of cures that I cast. I have fully merited Cure Cast Time Down, I have purchased Cure Clogs and I use Scholar sub and Light Arts. But how much are the afore mentioned merits, equipment and skills actually speeding me up, really? I have not seen a thread dedicated to attempting to accurately measure the effects of merits and equipment on cure casting time, so I figured that I would give it a shot.

This post was originally created on KillingIfrit, but I decided to post it on Allakhazam as well. This was done because I am certain that there are those who do not frequent the KillingIfrit White Mage message boards often or at all.


[ About the Tests ]

For these tests I will be casting in the Chocobo Circuit area, which is virtually empty at all times. This makes for a very nice laboratory-like environment. Each cast in the following tests were done with no pre-cast or mid-cast gear swapping involved. I also wore no extra gear besides gear that affected Cure Cast Time or Fast Cast. To further counteract lag, in each test I cast the specified cure spell twenty times and used the average of those twenty casts as the final product. If a cure spell went off at a percentage that was more than plus or minus one off of the average total percentage at the end of the test, it was flagged as 'lagged' and retested.

To avoid 'eyeballing' or guesstimation I used Fraps to record each cast and VirtualDub to move frame by frame in the video to get a fairly accurate time. I measured the cast time from the beginning of the cure animation to the moment the timer on the magic list (CTRL+M) showed that the spell had been used.


Again, my goal is simply to get as close as I possibly can to the actual cast time. None of the presented data below should be taken as absolute. That being said I believe that the following data gets pretty close, or at least close enough to get a good idea of the effect of gear, merits and job selection. Take from the below information what you will.

I would like to thank Derian and Kinyo of the Odin server for allowing me access to their characters to conduct a few of the Red Mage, White Mage and Scholar tests. I would also like to thank KillingIfrit user Shaddix for his help in this testing process.


 
=============================================================================== 
::Job:::‡::::::Test Zone:::::::‡:::::::::::::::::::Gear:::::::::::::::::::::::: 
=============================================================================== 
WHM/SCH | Chocobo Circuit (H-9)| Feet        - Cure Clogs 
        |                      | Right Ear   - Loquacious Earring 
        |                      | Body        - Marduk's Jubbah 
        |                      | Back        - Veela Cape 
        |                      | Waist       - Capricornian Rope 
        |                      |               (with and without Campaign) 
        |                      | (Gear Set   - No Other Gear) 
        |                      | (Player     - Kuuhalee [LV75]  ) 
        |                      | 
WHM/SCH | Chocobo Circuit (H-9)| (Gear Set   - No Gear) 
        |                      | (Player     - Kinyo    [LV61]  ) 
        |                      | 
WHM/RDM | Chocobo Circuit (H-9)| Feet        - Cure Clogs 
        |                      | Right Ear   - Loquacious Earring 
        |                      | Body        - Marduk's Jubbah 
        |                      | (Gear Set   - No Other Gear) 
        |                      | (Player     - Kuuhalee [LV75]  ) 
        |                      | 
RDM/SCH | Chocobo Circuit (H-9)| Head        - Warlock's Chapeau 
        |                      | Right Ear   - Loquacious Earring 
        |                      | (Gear Set   - No Other Gear) 
        |                      | (Player     - Kuuhalee [32%CR] ) 
        |                      | 
RDM/SCH | Chocobo Circuit (H-9)| Head        - Warlock's Chapeau 
RDM/WHM |                      | Body        - Duelist's Tabard 
        |                      | (Gear Set   - No Other Gear) 
        |                      | (Player     - Derian   [40%CR] ) 
        |                      | 
SCH/RDM | Chocobo Circuit (H-9)| (Gear Set   - No Gear) 
        |                      | (Player     - Kinyo    [LV52]  ) 
=============================================================================== 
 
 
=============================================================================== 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Chart Legend::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 
=============================================================================== 
Test  | Name of Spell Tested         ‡ Light Arts | Enabled/Disabled 
Job   | Job used in the Test         ‡              (10% Cast Reduction) 
Merit | Cure Cast Time Merits        ‡ TR         | Total Cast Reduction used 
        used in Test (+4% per Merit) ‡              in Test 
Equip | Cure Cast Time Equipment     ‡ Percent    | Average Percent shown on 
        used in Test (Cure Clogs)    ‡              Spell Progress Bar 
CR    | Cast Reduction from          ‡ Cast Time  | Average Cast Time 
        'Fast Cast' sources          ‡              calculated from 20 casts 
=============================================================================== 
 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  Test   |   Job   | Merit | Equip | CR | Light Arts | TR | Percent | Cast Time 
---------|---------|-------|-------|----|------------|----|---------|---------- 
Cure III | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -30%  | 9% |    Yes     | 69%| 36.83%  | 1.244 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-16%..|.9%.|....Yes.....|.55%|.48.57%..|:1.649 sec 
Cure III | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 7% |    Yes     | 52%| 48.54%  | 1.652 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.2%.|....Yes.....|.47%|.48.45%..|:1.649:sec 
Cure III | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 2% |    No      | 37%| 48.60%  | 1.655 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|....|....No......|.35%|.48.69%..|:1.659:sec 
Cure III | WHM/SCH | -20%  |       |    |    Yes     | 30%| 60.95%  | 2.077 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.......|....|....No......|.20%|.61.25%..|:2.087:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Cure III | WHM/RDM | -20%  | -16%  | 24%|    No      | 60%| 48.44%  | 1.643 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/RDM.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.22%|....No......|.57%|.48.53%..|:1.649:sec 
Cure III | WHM/RDM | -20%  | -15%  | 17%|    No      | 52%| 48.53%  | 1.647 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/RDM.|.-20%..|.......|.15%|....No......|.35%|.48.55%..|:1.648:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Cure III | RDM/SCH |       |       | 32%|    Yes     | 42%| 48.80%  | 1.655 sec 
Cure.III.|.RDM/SCH.|.......|.......|.32%|....No......|.32%|.61.50%..|:2.096:sec 
Cure III | RDM/SCH |       |       | 20%|    Yes     | 30%| 61.25%  | 2.092 sec 
Cure.III.|.RDM/SCH.|.......|.......|.20%|....No......|.20%|.61.25%..|:2.092:sec 
Cure III | RDM/SCH |       |       | 22%|    Yes     | 32%| 61.29%  | 2.093 sec 
Cure.III.|.RDM/SCH.|.......|.......|.30%|....Yes.....|.40%|.48.83%..|:1.657:sec 
Cure III | RDM/SCH |       |       | 40%|    Yes     | 50%| 48.81%  | 1.654 sec 
Cure.III.|.RDM/SCH.|.......|.......|.40%|....No......|.40%|.48.79%..|:1.655:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Cure III | WHM/SCH |       |       |    |    Yes     | 10%| 74.22%  | 2.533 sec 
Cure.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.......|.......|....|....No......|..0%|.74.25%..|:2.530:sec 
=============================================================================== 
 
Cure IV  | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 7% |    Yes     | 52%| 48.93%  | 1.653 sec 
Cure.IV..|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.2%.|....Yes.....|.47%|.48.95%..|:1.649:sec 
Cure IV  | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 2% |    No      | 37%| 48.90%  | 1.651 sec 
Cure.IV..|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|....|....No......|.35%|.48.74%..|:1.661:sec 
Cure IV  | WHM/SCH | -20%  |       |    |    Yes     | 30%| 61.47%  | 2.089 sec 
Cure.IV..|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.......|....|....No......|.20%|.61.55%..|:2.090:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Cure IV  | WHM/SCH |       |       |    |    Yes     | 10%| 74.23%  | 2.529 sec 
Cure.IV..|.WHM/SCH.|.......|.......|....|....No......|..0%|.74.24%..|:2.531:sec 
=============================================================================== 
 
Cure V   | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 7% |    Yes     | 52%| 48.82%  | 1.653 sec 
Cure.V...|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.2%.|....Yes.....|.47%|.48.77%..|:1.659:sec 
Cure V   | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 2% |    No      | 37%| 48.91%  | 1.655 sec 
Cure.V...|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|....|....No......|.35%|.48.83%..|:1.667:sec 
Cure V   | WHM/SCH | -20%  |       |    |    Yes     | 30%| 61.58%  | 2.076 sec 
Cure.V...|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.......|....|....No......|.20%|.61.53%..|:2.088:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Cure V   | WHM/SCH |       |       |    |    Yes     | 10%| 74.25%  | 2.523 sec 
Cure.V...|.WHM/SCH.|.......|.......|....|....No......|..0%|.74.27%..|:2.533:sec 
=============================================================================== 
 
-aga I   | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 7% |    Yes     | 52%| 40.95%  | 2.530 sec 
-aga.I...|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.2%.|....Yes.....|.47%|.46.15%..|:2.858:sec 
-aga I   | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  | 2% |    No      | 37%| 46.15%  | 2.861 sec 
-aga.I...|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|....|....No......|.35%|.47.75%..|:2.965:sec 
-aga I   | WHM/SCH | -20%  |       |    |    Yes     | 30%| 53.25%  | 3.290 sec 
-aga.I...|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.......|....|....No......|.20%|.60.20%..|:3.742:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-aga.I...|.WHM/RDM.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.22%|....No......|.57%|.40.10%..|:2.497:sec 
-aga I   | WHM/RDM | -20%  | -15%  | 17%|    No      | 52%| 40.03%  | 2.490 sec 
-aga.I...|.WHM/RDM.|.-20%..|.......|.15%|....No......|.35%|.47.81%..|:2.983:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-aga I   | RDM/WHM |       |       | 40%|    No      | 40%| 46.10%  | 2.862 sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-aga.I...|.WHM/SCH.|.......|.......|....|....Yes.....|.10%|.67.15%..|:4.190:sec 
-aga I   | WHM/SCH |       |       |    |    No      |  0%| 73.05%  | 4.545 sec 
=============================================================================== 
 
-aga.II..|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.7%.|....Yes.....|.52%|.41.07%..|:2.611:sec 
-aga II  | WHM/SCH | -20%  | -15%  |    |    No      | 35%| 50.65%  | 3.304 sec 
-aga.II..|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.......|....|....Yes.....|.30%|.56.85%..|:3.748:sec 
-aga II  | WHM/SCH | -20%  |       |    |    No      | 20%| 63.55%  | 4.177 sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-aga.II..|.WHM/SCH.|.......|.......|....|....Yes.....|.10%|.67.85%..|:4.493:sec 
-aga II  | WHM/SCH |       |       |    |    No      |  0%| 74.97%  | 4.845 sec 
=============================================================================== 
 
-aga.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.7%.|....Yes.....|.52%|.42.30%..|:2.940:sec 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-aga III | WHM/SCH |       |       |    |    Yes     | 10%| 66.97%  | 4.578 sec 
-aga.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.......|.......|....|............|..0%|.75.07%..|:5.094:sec 
=============================================================================== 
 
Cure1+Acc|.SCH/RDM.|.......|.......|.10%|....Yes.....|.20%|.60.85%. |:1.658:sec ‡ 
Cure2+Acc| SCH/RDM |       |       | 10%|    Yes     | 20%| 63.97%  | 1.967 sec ‡ 
Cure3+Acc|.SCH/RDM.|.......|.......|.10%|....Yes.....|.20%|.61.40%..|:2.093:sec ‡ 
=============================================================================== 
 
 ‡ - This test uses the Scholar ability 'Accession' 




[ Observations ]


Light Arts from Scholar sub appears to give a solid 10% Cast Time Reduction bonus.

There appears to be a cap at 50% on (Cure) Cast Time Reduction.

Cure III through Cure V cast times work on a tier system. The first tier is 17% Cast Time Reduction, the second tier is at 35% Cast Time Reduction and the third tier is at 69% Cast Time Reduction.

Curaga I appears to have a single tier somewhere between 48-50% Cast Time Reduction.



[ Questions and Answers ]


Question : "Am I reading this data correct? Why is the spell casting at a slower speed with more Cast Reduction?"
Answer : The difference between casts are sometimes in fractions of a second, so I would say that they are casting at generally the same time. Because the final results are the average of twenty tests, you will see tiny fluctuations like this.


Question : "Can you clarify what you mean when you say Cure Cast Time Reduction?"
Answer : Fast Cast is composed of two bonuses. It will reduce Recast Time and it will reduce Casting Time. To get the amount of Casting Time reduction from Fast Cast you double the amount of Fast Cast that is listed. So if you had a Loquacious Earring that provides 1% Fast Cast then you would have 1% Recast Time reduction and 2% Casting Time reduction. If you had a Marduk's Jubbah which provides 2.5% Fast Cast then you would have 2.5% Recast Time reduction and 5% Casting Time reduction.

Cure Cast Time reduction also comes from merits, Cure Clogs and Light Arts. You can receive a total of 20% Cure Cast Time reduction from merits, 15% Cure Cast Time reduction from Cure Clogs and an additional 10% Cast Time reduction via Light Arts.

All of these bonuses can stack but seem to cap at 50% Cast Time reduction. When I talk about needing '17% Cast Time Reduction' or '35% Cast Time Reduction' I am talking about the total amount of Cast Time Reduction you would need from all of the available resources.


Question : "Cure Cast Time ... tiers? What do you mean by that, exactly?"
Answer : When I talk about tiers I am referring to the two tiers that Cure III through Cure V operate on. The first tier is at 17% Cast Reduction and the second tier is at 35% Cast Reduction. These numbers represent the absolute minimum percentage of Cast Reduction that is needed to cast at a heightened speed. The only way to reduce your cast time for Cure III through Cure V is to break one of the specified tiers. Having 24% Cast Reduction or 37% Cast Reduction will not lower your cast time of the specified Cure spells anymore than having 17% Cast Reduction or 35% Cast Reduction will.

Curaga spells operate in a slightly different fashion than Cure III through Cure V wherein every bit of Cast Reduction seems to help speed up the casting to the point of 37-40% Cast Reduction. There appears to be a single cast time tier somewhere between 48-50% for Curaga spells that breaks the lull started at the 37-40% Cast Reduction range.


Question : "Does Celerity still have an effect with capped cast time reduction?"
Answer : What Celerity does is it halves the base casting time of whatever white magic spell comes next. It does not count towards Fast Cast. Therefore you can use Celerity to cut the spell cast time in half and then shave another few fractions of a second off of the spell with Cast Reduction gear. However, the spell will cast incredibly fast, so if you are wanting to do mid-cast gear swaps there is a very strong possibility that some or all of the gear will not have time to swap in before the spell is cast.








Edited, May 5th 2010 11:23pm by Kuuhalee

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 7:11pm by Kuuhalee
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#2 Mar 21 2008 at 2:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Am I reading this right when I say I notice that sometimes the spells get quickened by Light Arts but sometimes they do not?
#3 Mar 21 2008 at 3:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Am I reading this right when I say I notice that sometimes the spells get quickened by Light Arts but sometimes they do not?


This is because there is a tier system in place on the Cure spells. For Cure III through Cure V the initial tier is 20% Cast Time Reduction and the second tier is 35% Cast Time Reduction. There may be a third tier at 60% Cast Time Reduction, but I do not believe there is any way to reach that amount of Cast Time Reduction currently (and such a tier may not even exist; possible 50% Cast Time Reduction cap).

The Curaga line works a little differently. There are tiers, but it seems that every bit of Cast Time Reduction at least does a little bit to speed the spell up.

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 4:44am by Kuuhalee
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#4 Mar 21 2008 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, never knew about soft cap on Casting times, but it's pretty obvious seeing this.

So, Whm/sch seems a bit slower than Whm/rdm unless we get to stack everything cure cast time, and Fast cast related.

Congrats on this, it's very interesting
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#5 Mar 21 2008 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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This is the second set of tests I've seen you post and has the same problem as the first which prevents me from drawing any useful conclusions. Is there a particular reason you don't do a control test? What I mean to say is, a test with zero fast cast, zero cast time reduction to tell us what the base cast time is for your spells according to your test methods?

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 9:11am by Pergatory
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#6 Mar 21 2008 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
This is the second set of tests I've seen you post and has the same problem as the first which prevents me from drawing any useful conclusions. Is there a particular reason you don't do a control test? What I mean to say is, a test with zero fast cast, zero cast time reduction to tell us what the base cast time is for your spells according to your test methods?


To do a control test on Cure IV and Cure V I would first need to remove five merit upgrades into my Cure Cast Time Down on White Mage. I really do not want to do that. I also do not have access to another character who does not already have full Cure Cast Time Down merits. This makes it pretty difficult to do a control test.

However, I have updated the above chart with the base times of each cure spell as per FFXIclopedia. These times should be accurate as I believe they are straight from the DAT files. I will test Cure III on Black Mage later on to make sure, but I expect little variance from the base time posted above.
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#7 Mar 21 2008 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your efforts, but just trying to solidify the information.

I don't trust the DAT files or FFXIclopedia because they didn't use your exact test method to test. That's kinda the problem :( We need to determine the base cast time using your exact method of timing.

One thing you could do is go to a Lv60 cap area for your Cure III,IV and Curaga 1-3 testing. That would get rid of your Cure Cast merits. Dunno how we could do Cure V since there are no level caps high enough for it... I guess you'd have to delevel to 74, would be a lot less painful than lowering your merits and then re-earning them. How much buffer ya got? lol ; ;

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 3:22pm by Pergatory
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#8 Mar 21 2008 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I recall correctly you can do Assault at 70 cap. So maybe if you can coerce 2 others to help, you could test it in a 70 cap Assault.
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#9 Mar 21 2008 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Keliaffxi wrote:
If I recall correctly you can do Assault at 70 cap. So maybe if you can coerce 2 others to help, you could test it in a 70 cap Assault.

Ah yeah good call, that might work
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Pergatory (Asura, Kupo LS) WHM99 ~ SMN99 ~ DRK99
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#10 Mar 21 2008 at 2:56 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Test | Job | Merit | Equip | FC | Light Arts | Percent | Cast Time
---------|---------|-------|-------|----|------------|---------|----------
Cure III | WHM/SCH | -20% | -15% | 6% | Yes | 48.54% | 1.652 sec
Cure.III.|.WHM/SCH.|.-20%..|.-15%..|.2%.|....Yes.....|..48.45%.|:1.649:sec


If I am reading this data correct it got slower with more fast cast?
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#11 Mar 21 2008 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
If I am reading this data correct it got slower with more fast cast?


The difference between the two is in fractions of a millisecond, so I would basically say that they are casting at generally the same time. Because the final results are the average of twenty tests, you will get tiny fluctuations like this.



Quote:
One thing you could do is go to a Lv60 cap area for your Cure III,IV and Curaga 1-3 testing. That would get rid of your Cure Cast merits. Dunno how we could do Cure V since there are no level caps high enough for it... I guess you'd have to delevel to 74, would be a lot less painful than lowering your merits and then re-earning them. How much buffer ya got? lol ; ;


I have been asking around in my linkshell again and I may have a White Mage character I could borrow for testing. We'll see how it goes.

EDIT : I was able to borrow the character, so I'll do a some base cast time testing.

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 8:54pm by Kuuhalee
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#12 Mar 21 2008 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Pergatory wrote:
Keliaffxi wrote:
If I recall correctly you can do Assault at 70 cap. So maybe if you can coerce 2 others to help, you could test it in a 70 cap Assault.

Ah yeah good call, that might work

nice save Perg! but I think we *ALL* know you just wanted to see him lose all his buffer for your own sick pleasure >.>;
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#13 Mar 21 2008 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, I tested Cure III through Cure V and the Curaga line with the borrowed character (thank you, Kinyo). That should provide a good cure cast time base.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2008 12:09am by Kuuhalee
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#14 Mar 22 2008 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Can you clarify what you mean in cure cast time reduction?
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#15 Mar 22 2008 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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that is very impressive testing.

i'm looking forward to reading more ^^
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#16 Mar 22 2008 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Can you clarify what you mean in cure cast time reduction?


Fast Cast is composed of two bonuses. It will reduce Recast Time and it will reduce Casting Time. To get the amount of Casting Time reduction from Fast Cast you double the amount of Fast Cast that is listed. So if you had a Loquacious Earring that provides 1% Fast Cast then you would have 1% Recast Time reduction and 2% Casting Time reduction. If you had a Marduk's Jubbah which provides 2% Fast Cast then you would have 2% Recast Time reduction and 4% Casting Time reduction.

Cure Cast Time reduction also comes from merits, Cure Clogs and Light Arts. You can receive a total of 20% Cure Cast Time reduction from merits, 15% Cure Cast Time reduction from Cure Clogs and an additional 10% Cast Time reduction via Light Arts.

All of these bonuses can stack but probably cap at 50% Cast Time reduction. When I talk about needing '20% Cast Time Reduction' or '35% Cast Time Reduction' I am talking about the total amount of Cast Time Reduction you would need from all of the available resources (that's probably all you wanted to know, but oh well ... I like walls of text).

Edited, Mar 22nd 2008 7:53pm by Kuuhalee
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#17 Mar 22 2008 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Is there any chance you (or someone) could round up a RDM with Warlock's Chapeau, Duelist's Tabard and Loquacious Earring to test for the 50% cap?
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#18 Mar 22 2008 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Is there any chance you (or someone) could round up a RDM with Warlock's Chapeau, Duelist's Tabard and Loquacious Earring to test for the 50% cap?


I already broke the 50% barrier with WHM/SCH and Light Arts (51% Cure Cast Time Reduction). I also broke it on WHM/RDM (56% Cure Cast Time Reduction) and with the borrowed RDM/SCH (50% Cast Time Reduction). Going past the 50% barrier doesn't appear to do anything for Cure III through Cure V, but hitting the 50% barrier seems to break a tier for Curaga I (and possibly other Curagas; requires more testing).

Red Mage can keep up with White Mage on Cure III through Cure V with good gear, but we have the clear advantage with Curagas.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2008 9:28pm by Kuuhalee
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#19 Mar 22 2008 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ahh ok. I guess I just conveniently overlooked that in your test results. Looking back I see that now. That's interesting there's no bonus for hitting the 50% mark for Cure III through V.
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#20 Mar 24 2008 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks Kuuhalee for testing & adding the base cast times :)
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#21 Mar 24 2008 at 11:46 AM Rating: Default
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Very nice info!

As a WHM/SCH with light arts, it appears it isn't quite enough to reach the next tier.

Cure clogs + max merits seem to be the only reliable way to hit the 35% tier. That gear swap macro for my feet won't change any time soon, sadly.

Melee math and parsing has been somewhat stagnant for years (we found everything we needed to know about STR vs ATTACK in 2005, for instance) but it is good to see more and more is being discovered about mages and their spells.

This isn't the first time WHM spells were found to have a tier system, so with more digging I am sure others will be discovered.
#22 Mar 27 2008 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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Great work, nice infomartion, I will see how much more I can get from analyzing it. If the cure casting time does have soft caps as theorized, this would be very interesting.

My only thoughts here are if you can cast your Cure spell under 2 seconds then my thumbs up, you have a go. Trying to push to the limit constantly, there you will have to be a penalty. You can only go so far so fast but at what costs? I know speed is important but at the same time versatility and flexibility come to mind.
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#23 Mar 27 2008 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Another fast cast bonus gear there is the Lv 30 Warlock's Mantel. Unfortunately, only usable with RDM sub job. While I doubt it would effect testing much being another 2%, I didn't see it listed and decided to mention it.
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#24 May 28 2008 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Bump - See here.

I don't necessarily believe ayulove, but it's always good to have discussion.
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#25 May 29 2008 at 3:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Cutriss wrote:
Bump - See here.

I don't necessarily believe ayulove, but it's always good to have discussion.



That is very interesting and it may very well be true. Although it just seems very odd that the timer in the menu and the animation would be off by so much. Of course, this may be a glitch of some sort ... but only on Cure spells?

I will go through the same tests and attempt to verify Ayulove's findings. Not sure why he or she didn't bring up his or her findings in this thread.


Edited, May 29th 2008 4:20am by Kuuhalee
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#26 May 29 2008 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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I posted in the following page on that thread a response thinking that the reason her tests may not have been accurate could include the fact that she's running both POL instances on one PC, which means she's using Windower, which means she's using Priority.dll. It's reasonably likely that the last action she conducted on the PC (since I believe the target char was on a separate connection or system) was to equip the Cure Clogs. Which would mean that the active window would be the one where she just equipped the Cure Clogs. Which would mean the character wearing the Cure Clogs would always have the CPU priority over the the character not wearing them. Which *could* mean that the non-Clogged caster would always lose.
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#27 Jun 05 2008 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Didn't want this to slip off the page, so bump.
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#28 Jun 09 2008 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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CCWhiteMage wrote:
Another fast cast bonus gear there is the Lv 30 Warlock's Mantel. Unfortunately, only usable with RDM sub job. While I doubt it would effect testing much being another 2%, I didn't see it listed and decided to mention it.


Still not seeing this tested. Adding this looks promising to hit a new tier. Many WHMs wouldn't use it, yet it would be nice to know if it does hit the next tier.
#29 Aug 13 2008 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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/poke
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#30 Aug 13 2008 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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While I don't question the accuracy of your testing, I was wondering what your opinion on an alternate test for increased accuracy.

If I read correctly, your 'start time' is triggered by the moment spell shows it was used. Your 'stop time' is triggered the moment the recast timer is set.

As BRD, I have also been interested in casting time, and my usage of Fraps+VirtualDub is the same. The only difference is I make use of the game's cursor to indicate the start/stop of a spell.

For example, I would start by de-select any targets. I would then start my macro, and the moment the cursor appears over my head I would mark my 'start time'. I would de-select myself again, and when the spell finishes it would cause another cursor to appear which would indicate my 'stop time'.

I'm sure your testing is accurate, but I've always been interested in determining what is the best/common way to measure casting time. How do you feel about your method vs the method I just described?

I'm also interested in the structure of Cure CastTime Tiers. I have never been able to identify anything of the sort for BRD in regards to Songs. What is interesting is that -Song Spellcasting Time and Fast Cast stack, but how they stack is unknown. Now I'm beginning to wonder if Cast Time Tiers is strictly Cure related or if it applies to any/all spells. Anyone else heard of Cast Time Tiers for anything else?
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#31 Aug 13 2008 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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There's no reliable way to time spell casting time, it's all reliant on latency between you and the server. That's the main reason why I trust my gut more than these tests, because my gut tells me that every change in cast speed takes effect no matter how small. When I put on Cure Clogs, I always notice the difference immediately, not just when I have certain combinations of other fast cast pieces equipped. As I was meriting Cure Cast speed, I noticed the difference from every single merit I added, not in tiers. Could it all have been placebo? It's certainly possible, but I'm a rather objective thinker when it comes to validating things. Sadly, there's no way for me to provide any more valid data than what Kuuhalee has provided and so in the very best case scenario it'd be my data versus hers, which I really saw no point.

I wouldn't be surprised if we discover something along the lines of the FFXI client has a very crude "cast time estimation" algorithm which only does a few basic checks to determine your "approximate" cast time which is what the player sees on their screen, while the real cast time is calculated more carefully on the server and applied as such. Sadly, nobody can figure out a way to test it. The latency causes too many problems.
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#32 Sep 09 2008 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Hope I'm making sense and didn't miss anything already posted... but I didn't see any testing at 34% reduction.

The reason I'm asking is that WHM/SCH with full merits and Pumps/Loq would be at 34, right? T1 being 17 made me curious...

If it's actually 35 and not 34 then a few bits of "essential" gear might not be so desireable at all anymore (Blessed or even Errant > Rostrum for one). Wouldn't it also mean that when factoring in Light Arts you'd only need 2/5 merits to hit a soft cap?

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#33 May 06 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have posted a brief update in the test results chart for Cure III that use new or previously untested gear sets (Veela Cape, Capricornian Rope). As I no longer really put a lot of faith in my current testing procedure -- due to latency issues, among other things -- I will not continue on with Cure IV, Cure V and Curaga tests.


What I really wanted to bring to light with this post is that Cast Reduction does not appear to cap at 50%. I tested up to 69% reduction while in a Campaign Battle (+15% from Capricornian Rope) and got some interesting results. The casting time dropped from roughly 1.6 seconds to 1.2 seconds.
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#34 Oct 17 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Another snippet of an update with quick testing of Cure III with 41/63 [Fast Cast/Cure Cast Time] cast reduction. Testing was performed with Incantor Stone, Loquacious Earring, Marduk's Jubbah, Veela Cape, Light Arts, perfect COR Caster's Roll for Fast Cast and Aceso's Choker, Cure Clogs, Lore Slops (Augmented -3%; no AF3+1 yet), Capricornian Rope (Campaign), Cure Cast Time Merits. After testing it appears that the Cure III casts at roughly 1.2 seconds, which was basically the same as the testing done in my previous post. There may possibly be a base time for the spell after which it can go no faster. I might test other Cure spells if I find the time.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 7:33pm by Kuuhalee
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