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Bored Druid Thread: The Next GenerationFollow

#1027 Sep 28 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
Aeth, only the first 3-4 significant figures matter, anyway. We're used to filtering anything that's irrelevant on a log scale.

Also, I've been doing binary long division in number theory. My result is an inconvenient sum, though, so it's not brought me closer to a result, really.
#1028 Sep 28 2013 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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Kalivha wrote:
Aeth, only the first 3-4 significant figures matter, anyway. We're used to filtering anything that's irrelevant on a log scale.
The average person is still easily confused by big numbers though.`Especially for anything math related.
#1029 Sep 28 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
Even computers and calculators do (usually) have fixed precision, so you end up with dropping digits toward the end, anyway.
#1030 Sep 28 2013 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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When all those additional numbers are zeros, sure. 43.5k vs. 43 isn't much of a difference.

But the experience of 43576 and 43 are very different.

And the change from 43576 to 64876 is definitely less felt than the change from 43 to 64.

On one, I can mentally place that damage on a number line that I can, more or less, comprehend and imagine. I can visualize a ruler with 120 marks (lol American) and place those two numbers in approximately the right place with zero effort spent.

When we have the larger numbers with multiple numerals, that becomes much more difficult to do. Yes, I understand rationally that they're in the same place. But that transition isn't automatic. I have to remind myself that I can just divide the number by 1000 and go from there.

When I'm just playing a game and experiencing it, I'm not wandering around automatically dividing every number I see just so I can gain a modicum of understanding about just how strong I've become. I want to be able to understand and experience that without having to invest higher brain power to do so.

Honestly, I think their original intention was for players to be thinking "Man, I'm doing THOUSANDS! more damage," even though the increase was the same as in earlier tiers, percentage-wise. But the reality is that, the more numbers you see after the first one, the less the difference seems. You need to see, percentage-wise, bigger returns to get the same effect.

So even though 5438 -> 5541 is about the same increase in damage as 54 -> 55, it FEELS like the increase is much smaller (even though, in this instance, it's technically more). Because additional data muddles my ability to comprehend what just happened.
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#1031 Sep 28 2013 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'm not nearly drunk enough for this ****.

I'll be back later.
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#1032 Sep 28 2013 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Yeah, I'm not nearly drunk enough for this sh*t.

I'll be back later.
You better be. I'm bored, hyper and drinking.
#1033 Sep 28 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
Even fish can do those calculations.

There have been studies.

I can't be bothered to find them.

(Essentially, thinking in orders of magnitude is natural once you're past... 15 or so.)
#1034 Sep 28 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Humans are pretty ******* stupid though. Something you forget rather often.
#1035 Sep 28 2013 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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Kalivha wrote:
Even fish can do those calculations.


I'm not a fish, though. Smiley: schooled

Kalivha wrote:
(Essentially, thinking in orders of magnitude is natural once you're past... 15 or so.)


I don't think about how I think, I just do it. Still not drunk enough for math like above.
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#1036 Sep 28 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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Once I start seeing a bunch of digits, it starts getting really difficult to tell at a glance what kind of number I'm seeing. I have to start counting commas pretty quickly.

I mean consider the numbers 43,567,243,345 and 43,567. It's easy to tell how big the second number is, but at a glance I have to pause and think about the first one. I can't tell at a glance if it's a million, a billion, or a trillion. If I had sets of those lined up against each other, it would be pretty easy to just do a spatial comparison, but that's not typically how you'd be seeing numbers for DPS.

And aren't there fairly firm studies showing that people have more and more difficulty remembering numbers as they grow in number of digits?

I guess the other thing I'd point out is that I wouldn't be at all shocked if you, Kali, could easily process those numbers. But your brain is a decent few strides beyond most peoples'. I don't think I'm an idiot, and I have always enjoyed math, but mathematical reasoning has never been my strong suit relative to other topics.
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#1037 Sep 28 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Good
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I swore to myself I wouldn't buy a 3DS...

And I bought a 3DS. The lure of the upcoming Pokemon game was too much. Particularly when I found out I could start with Bulbasaur...
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#1038 Sep 28 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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even people that do lots of math will try and reduce huge numbers to smaller ones, more complex systems to simpler ones, etc etc

regardless, as long as stuff dies im happy at the end of the day
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#1039 Sep 28 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
They mentioned a likely number squish before MoP, but it didn't happen. It would require redoing a lot of calculations, and if they didn't want to do it for MoP, where numbers reach six figures, why would they do it in the next expansion where the numbers will reach seven figures?


They didn't do it before MoP because of player backlash, really. Players didn't want to suddenly be a lot less powerful. The difference this time around is twofold: First, they have to do it or something similar. They can't have another expansion of growth. The second is they've been talking about an item squish for a long time at this point, so it's not going to be anywhere near as sudden as it was when they first talked about it. Players have had a lot of time to get used to the idea.

Kalivha wrote:
Even fish can do those calculations.


Hey! What's that supposed to mean?
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#1040 Sep 28 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I swore to myself I wouldn't buy a 3DS...

And I bought a 3DS. The lure of the upcoming Pokemon game was too much. Particularly when I found out I could start with Bulbasaur...


Squirtle is my bro.
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#1041 Sep 28 2013 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
idiggory wrote:
I swore to myself I wouldn't buy a 3DS...

And I bought a 3DS. The lure of the upcoming Pokemon game was too much. Particularly when I found out I could start with Bulbasaur...


Squirtle is my bro.


I must confess, Blastoise' mega-evolution almost swayed me. But...

Screenshot


I may have resubbed just so I could share that picture.

I grabbed FE:A with the 3DS (blue Pokemon XY edition). I'm really enjoying it so far. Granted, I'm SUPER early, but it's fun. I chose the "death is permanent" option, and I'm going to try and hold myself to that.
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#1042 Sep 28 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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Permanent death is the only way to play a Fire Emblem game.

Yup. Permanent death and constantly restarting the chapter when someone dies.
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#1043 Sep 29 2013 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I swore to myself I wouldn't buy a 3DS...

And I bought a 3DS. The lure of the upcoming Pokemon game was too much. Particularly when I found out I could start with Bulbasaur...
I don't get it. It's just a pokemon game, in essence the exact same game you've already played half a dozen times with virtually no change. How is that worth, what, $150?
#1044 Sep 29 2013 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
I got A Short History of Nearly Everything as an audio book.

When I'm listening to it every time he goes like "a hundred million billion particles" I just go like, wtf, I don't know what that means. About half the time he then expresses it as powers of ten, so it's fine.

Also, I have Pokemon FireRed on my tablet?
#1045 Sep 29 2013 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
idiggory wrote:
I swore to myself I wouldn't buy a 3DS...

And I bought a 3DS. The lure of the upcoming Pokemon game was too much. Particularly when I found out I could start with Bulbasaur...
I don't get it. It's just a pokemon game, in essence the exact same game you've already played half a dozen times with virtually no change. How is that worth, what, $150?


Because BULBASAUR!
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#1046 Sep 29 2013 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
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About the worst pokemon you can start with.
#1047 Sep 29 2013 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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BLASPHEMY!

Bulbasaur's the best. First two gym leaders? Rock and Water. By the time you hit a gym you'd be weak to, you already have a decent spread of types.

Plus, Bulbasaur is awesome. It's a dinosaur with a plant growing on its back. Awesome. The only downside is that you don't have any point to use Oddish. But you get Growlithe or Vulpix instead of Charmander, and instead of Squirtle you can grab a Psyduck, Seal, or Krabby.

Smiley: nod
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IDrownFish wrote:
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#1048 Sep 29 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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Fire is the only way. There's always some grass and/or water types around early on and it takes an eternity before you find anything that can breathe fire otherwise.
#1049 Sep 29 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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The game's a lot more dynamic, in general, now. And it'll really depend on how you like to play which will decide which starter you want.

Because now the game has a more balanced (in general) spread of typing pros/cons, more balanced stat balances, and the attack/defense stats are split into Special/Regular, with each type having attacks in both areas.

Generally speaking, your fire types are going to end up more like glass cannons, and they're going to go down even faster if they don't have a stat-alottment advantage (as in, they are focusing on special attacks and have low defense, but their opponent is high in special defense and average in attack).

Your grass types tend to be more of a support/defensive type. Bulbasaur is going to debuff your enemy and cause general mayhem. And as you increase the number of pokemon (because the games now have 2/3x2/3-pokemon battles), it's going to get much stronger. Plus, because they're defensive, they tend to be under-prioritized. But that could be horrible for the opponent, because if my Bulbasaur inflicts both Leach Seed and a Bad Poison effect, the damage of both of those effects is going to increase each turn (and heal whatever pokemon is in the space Bulbasaur occupied), making it a really effective way to support myself in a situation where just one pokemon isn't going to cut it.

Fire types, as glass cannons, tend to get far weaker in situations where they aren't the faster pokemon, or when there are more pokemon on the field. If the other team can toss a few moves its way in one turn, it's really going to struggle to stay alive in general. And because so much of its effectiveness is built into its need for successful attacks, debilitating attacks (like ones that cause Blindness) work really well against it.

Sure, if all I'm doing is taking out random pokemon in grass, a fire type is going to get me through it faster in general. But a grass pokemon will get me through trainer battles and gyms without nearly as much over-leveling required, plus fewer trips back to the pokemon center. Smiley: grin

Plus, because move sets tend to change, and because it's very rare for early pokemon to be something you want to keep in your party for any extended period of time, the fact that grass types are more common early on doesn't matter as much. Because it's not until you start encountering Fire pokemon that you start encountering Grass types you'd actually want to train.
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#1050 Sep 29 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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You've put waaaay more thought and energy into pokemon games than I have. I just go by the type X beats Y and no more, it's been enough to beat the game without any issues a couple times.
#1051 Sep 29 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Also, I just found out I missed Baroness coming to the Netherlands (2 days ago)... I could kick myself for missing them...
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