Why play a game where you do 250 DPS when you could play one where you do 250k DPS?!
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They keep running into this wall that whatever solution they consider people seem to balk at, and people like seeing big numbers on the screen as it makes them feel special.
Why play a game where you do 250 DPS when you could play one where you do 250k DPS?!
Why play a game where you do 250 DPS when you could play one where you do 250k DPS?!
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
cynyck wrote:
You need to either get up later or get coffee earlier. And the reason he forgot his coffee is simple, he hadn't had his first cup yet . . .
Luckily, my boss is a coffee-lover. We have a Keurig machine at the office and he buys these, in addition to a slew of other kinds of coffees (sorry for the Amazon link, it was all I could find). Fogchaser is an apt name.
I was going to respond to your comment by saying "my wife has one of those - me!" and then I saw this:
lolgaxe wrote:
A wife?
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
someproteinguy wrote:
They keep running into this wall that whatever solution they consider people seem to balk at, and people like seeing big numbers on the screen as it makes them feel special.
Why play a game where you do 250 DPS when you could play one where you do 250k DPS?!
Why play a game where you do 250 DPS when you could play one where you do 250k DPS?!
Horsemouth wrote:
kali; is it weird to scp to A then ssh to A, run script test there, then scp to B from A, then ssh to B from A? all cause i remember the local passwords?
Edited, Sep 27th 2013 9:48pm by Kalivha
Everything is bigger if you measure in cm. 
Really just repeating the argument I've seen elsewhere. You have people on forums says "big numbers are more fun," and the argument seems to have some degree of traction.
Really just repeating the argument I've seen elsewhere. You have people on forums says "big numbers are more fun," and the argument seems to have some degree of traction.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I'm going to a 25yd pool tomorrow, that's less than 25m.
The fatal flaw in the "big numbers are fun" argument is that the numbers are relative. 250k is only fun if it's a lot for the game, it's not inherently any more or less fun than 2500.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
WoW really needs a stat reset... 250k is just getting silly, divide everything by 100 already!
It really does. It's at the point where you can't look at a piece of gear and really conceptualize its value anymore, or see how much health a boss has and have any notion of what kind of damage you should be doing (etc.)
Then again, they've boiled the stats down so much that all you really don't need to do too much just to compare two pieces. More of your main stat? Upgrade. Equal? Well, if it has your primary secondary stat on it, it's almost certainly an upgrade if your current piece does not (or doesn't have as much).
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Yeah.. boring.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, WotLK style needing a spreadsheet to tell whether something is an upgrade or not sucked but oversimplificatio because numbers have gotten too big to comprehend easily is just as bad.
Edited, Sep 28th 2013 12:05am by Aethien
Edit: Don't get me wrong, WotLK style needing a spreadsheet to tell whether something is an upgrade or not sucked but oversimplificatio because numbers have gotten too big to comprehend easily is just as bad.
Edited, Sep 28th 2013 12:05am by Aethien
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
The fatal flaw in the "big numbers are fun" argument is that the numbers are relative. 250k is only fun if it's a lot for the game, it's not inherently any more or less fun than 2500.
And I'd argue that it's only fun if you could possibly comprehend it. Which, in my opinion, makes the bigger numbers less fun at this point.
I can't conceptualize one million of everything. So my actual enjoyment of "BIG NUMBERS!" isn't really getting any better. Sure, there's progression, but they're both just filed in the "BIG NUMBERS!" category.
I can understand what 50 of something means, and I can understand what 100 of something means, and that makes it a really meaningful increase to go from 50 to 100.
I can't really understand what 1 million is, so going to 2 million, while fun, is ultimately less fun than 50 -> 100. I get WAY more of a high seeing big numbers on a low level character when they get their first super unbalanced skill than I do on any high level character... ever.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
It seems that for once we agree on something game design related idiggory. I'm pretty sure that's a first. 
Didn't we agree that it was insane that they redesigned the bear druid models but left the side burns on the NE version?
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
They are going to lower all the numbers in the next expansion. They have to. It's gotten to the point where heroic 25 man bosses are pushing the literal upper limits to what the code can handle in terms of HP.
Assuming they are using a 32 bit signed integer (which I'm pretty sure they are given some comments they've made), the highest HP a boss can theoretically have is 2,147,483,647. 2.14 billion. One of the fights in 25-man heroic in the previous tier had 1,962,616,448 health. There were some mechanics for boosted player damage there, but it's getting dangerously close to the cap.
In the Garrosh fight even, he doesn't have one health bar with multiple phases at various percents. Instead his health gets low, then he heals to full and the next phase starts. I like to think this is because they simply couldn't fit a single healthbar in, the code wouldn't allow numbers that high.
So what happens when health does exceed those numbers? Things like this.
There will be an "item squish" next expansion reducing the numbers. They simply have to.
Edited, Sep 27th 2013 6:54pm by IDrownFish
Assuming they are using a 32 bit signed integer (which I'm pretty sure they are given some comments they've made), the highest HP a boss can theoretically have is 2,147,483,647. 2.14 billion. One of the fights in 25-man heroic in the previous tier had 1,962,616,448 health. There were some mechanics for boosted player damage there, but it's getting dangerously close to the cap.
In the Garrosh fight even, he doesn't have one health bar with multiple phases at various percents. Instead his health gets low, then he heals to full and the next phase starts. I like to think this is because they simply couldn't fit a single healthbar in, the code wouldn't allow numbers that high.
So what happens when health does exceed those numbers? Things like this.
There will be an "item squish" next expansion reducing the numbers. They simply have to.
Edited, Sep 27th 2013 6:54pm by IDrownFish
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I have a racist ****.
Steam: TuxedoFish
battle.net: Fishy #1649
GW2: Fishy.4129
IN BEFORE RAGE QUITS OVER DAMAGE NERFS
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Yeah, they are definitely still talking stat squish. They keep mentioning it quite regularly so I think they are trying to get people used to it more and more before they actually announce the details.
That 250k is certainly good DPS for the current content and gear. Short 5man fights though are a bit like that - they last just long enough to pop all your CD's. Throw some adds in and the numbers skyrocket. After the first 30 secs of a boss fight at the moment I am often sitting at 500+k DPS due to getting a super rip up with both my trinkets proccing and also having dropped an agi pot.
That 250k is certainly good DPS for the current content and gear. Short 5man fights though are a bit like that - they last just long enough to pop all your CD's. Throw some adds in and the numbers skyrocket. After the first 30 secs of a boss fight at the moment I am often sitting at 500+k DPS due to getting a super rip up with both my trinkets proccing and also having dropped an agi pot.
Friar RareBeast wrote:
Yeah, they are definitely still talking stat squish. They keep mentioning it quite regularly so I think they are trying to get people used to it more and more before they actually announce the details.
That 250k is certainly good DPS for the current content and gear. Short 5man fights though are a bit like that - they last just long enough to pop all your CD's. Throw some adds in and the numbers skyrocket. After the first 30 secs of a boss fight at the moment I am often sitting at 500+k DPS due to getting a super rip up with both my trinkets proccing and also having dropped an agi pot.
That 250k is certainly good DPS for the current content and gear. Short 5man fights though are a bit like that - they last just long enough to pop all your CD's. Throw some adds in and the numbers skyrocket. After the first 30 secs of a boss fight at the moment I am often sitting at 500+k DPS due to getting a super rip up with both my trinkets proccing and also having dropped an agi pot.
Wow, talk about a Wrath flashback. I remember how INSANE my Mage's dps was. 5 man dungeons with Arcane? Pop all my CDs, including Icy Veins for a 20% spell speed increase, spam Arcane Blast and MAYBE use Arcane Missiles just to quickly save some mana (on the rare occasion that wasn't enough).
I remember one time in Utgarde Pinnacle (maybe Keep, don't remember which was which) - it was that fight where the boss would encase you in ice and you were supposed to free the others. Well, I think the fight lasted MAYBE 15 seconds? And my Damage done was at least double the rest of the party combined. Don't think anyone even ended up encased in ice.
Oh, stat inflation. How you are ever ruining content...
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
They are going to lower all the numbers in the next expansion. They have to. It's gotten to the point where heroic 25 man bosses are pushing the literal upper limits to what the code can handle in terms of HP.
Assuming they are using a 32 bit signed integer (which I'm pretty sure they are given some comments they've made), the highest HP a boss can theoretically have is 2,147,483,647. 2.14 billion. One of the fights in 25-man heroic in the previous tier had 1,962,616,448 health. There were some mechanics for boosted player damage there, but it's getting dangerously close to the cap.
In the Garrosh fight even, he doesn't have one health bar with multiple phases at various percents. Instead his health gets low, then he heals to full and the next phase starts. I like to think this is because they simply couldn't fit a single healthbar in, the code wouldn't allow numbers that high.
So what happens when health does exceed those numbers? Things like this.
There will be an "item squish" next expansion reducing the numbers. They simply have to.
Edited, Sep 27th 2013 6:54pm by IDrownFish
Assuming they are using a 32 bit signed integer (which I'm pretty sure they are given some comments they've made), the highest HP a boss can theoretically have is 2,147,483,647. 2.14 billion. One of the fights in 25-man heroic in the previous tier had 1,962,616,448 health. There were some mechanics for boosted player damage there, but it's getting dangerously close to the cap.
In the Garrosh fight even, he doesn't have one health bar with multiple phases at various percents. Instead his health gets low, then he heals to full and the next phase starts. I like to think this is because they simply couldn't fit a single healthbar in, the code wouldn't allow numbers that high.
So what happens when health does exceed those numbers? Things like this.
There will be an "item squish" next expansion reducing the numbers. They simply have to.
Edited, Sep 27th 2013 6:54pm by IDrownFish
pretty much this
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
There's no reason to use signed for HP that I can see, and in any case it's not that difficult to switch to multiple precision (and in this scenario, not a performance concern).
Or maybe I've been spoiled by infinite precision integers.
Anyway, more zeroes shouldn't actually influence our comprehension of numbers relative to each other; human number perception is logarithmic, anyway.
Or maybe I've been spoiled by infinite precision integers.
Anyway, more zeroes shouldn't actually influence our comprehension of numbers relative to each other; human number perception is logarithmic, anyway.
unsigned int could cause a huge damage event to cause the boss to gain health
or force them to account for having to potential add more bits
1010 + 1111 = 1 1001 if you only have the 4 bits your hosed or go from 10 to 9 HPs from 15 damage
im trying to remember where i saw it but it was some weird c/c++ code shit that involved a simple for loop test that broke cause of unsigned ints
also floats are the devil.
fucking binary fractions make me want to punch stuff
my math may be a bit off, i may have been drinking for hours but i do know that pushing the limits of the byte size of your numbers is bad idea.
wow is getting near that threshold
***** this im going back to the bar
or force them to account for having to potential add more bits
1010 + 1111 = 1 1001 if you only have the 4 bits your hosed or go from 10 to 9 HPs from 15 damage
im trying to remember where i saw it but it was some weird c/c++ code shit that involved a simple for loop test that broke cause of unsigned ints
also floats are the devil.
fucking binary fractions make me want to punch stuff
my math may be a bit off, i may have been drinking for hours but i do know that pushing the limits of the byte size of your numbers is bad idea.
wow is getting near that threshold
***** this im going back to the bar
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Kalivha wrote:
Anyway, more zeroes shouldn't actually influence our comprehension of numbers relative to each other; human number perception is logarithmic, anyway.
I mean, you can see hundreds of trees or thousands of people but a field with millions of blades of grass is a field of grass.
Edit: People also start to struggle a LOT more with math when you get higher numbers, 137,539 + 224,547 takes a lot more time than 1,375 + 2,245 without using a calculator.
Edited, Sep 28th 2013 10:32am by Aethien
Looking forward to the next expansion.
250,000 + 800% = 2,000,000
Mangle will crit for one MILLIONdollars damage! Muahahha... *Dr. Evil pose*
Edited, Sep 28th 2013 11:01am by Mazra
250,000 + 800% = 2,000,000
Mangle will crit for one MILLION
Edited, Sep 28th 2013 11:01am by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
You didn't read the previous posts about a likely number squish, did you?
You might be cheering about 1337 Mangle crits again.
You might be cheering about 1337 Mangle crits again.
They mentioned a likely number squish before MoP, but it didn't happen. It would require redoing a lot of calculations, and if they didn't want to do it for MoP, where numbers reach six figures, why would they do it in the next expansion where the numbers will reach seven figures?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
See math in the posts above, they seem to be reaching the plateau for boss HP in this xpack (see Fishy's post)
TL;DR: The 32-bit system they use will definitely be an issue in any further expansions, and it is possible that Garrosh has already passed it in essence (though his encounter uses healing, so there we are talking effective health, not true health).
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
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