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#1 May 09 2012 at 2:08 AM Rating: Good
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Ghostcrawler wrote:
Disentanglement -- no longer a talent. Shapeshifting for all druids just breaks roots.


/happydance

Edited, May 8th 2012 10:12pm by Horsemouth
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#2 May 09 2012 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good
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#3 May 09 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
Good for you guys! I'm just going to go over here and make a 150k crit on Ragnaros' face with my Deep Freeze.
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#4 May 09 2012 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
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It's still beta. Blizzard giveth and taketh, and all that sh*t.

I don't know that it's needed in PvP, I don't see druids getting kited any more than rogues do, but good for you guys I guess.

Can rogues go back to being able to ShS while rooted now?
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#5 May 09 2012 at 3:10 AM Rating: Good
Well, I know a lot of people were upset because all druids have always been able to shift out of roots, and then they took it away from just feral druids in Cata for some reason. So I think it's a good thing to let them have it back. They should never have taken it away in the first place.
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#6 May 09 2012 at 3:22 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Well, I know a lot of people were upset because all druids have always been able to shift out of roots, and then they took it away from just feral druids in Cata for some reason. So I think it's a good thing to let them have it back. They should never have taken it away in the first place.


srsly
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#7 May 09 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Horsemouth wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Well, I know a lot of people were upset because all druids have always been able to shift out of roots, and then they took it away from just feral druids in Cata for some reason. So I think it's a good thing to let them have it back. They should never have taken it away in the first place.


srsly


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#8 May 09 2012 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
I don't know that it's needed in PvP, I don't see druids getting kited any more than rogues do, but good for you guys I guess.


I don't know how needed it'll be in MoP, but right now and for the last seven (eight) years, it's been key to our survival. Druids can't Vanish. Yet.

I know Vanish had its issues, but Ferals were sitting ducks for quite some time when they took away our ability to break roots (which is why they added it to two of our cooldowns later). Any ranged class could root us and nuke away. Unable to break the root. Unable to reset the fight. Unable to heal through the incoming damage due to having the lowest spell power of all the hybrids in the game...

It was, from a PvP perspective, similar to how they handled Ret Paladins in TBC or whenever. To the ground, baby. And stay there!

In before links to Feral Druid PvP videos after the change and before they added root-breakers to Dash and Stampeding Roar.

Edited, May 9th 2012 8:37pm by Mazra
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#9 May 09 2012 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Well, I know a lot of people were upset because all druids have always been able to shift out of roots, and then they took it away from just feral druids in Cata for some reason. So I think it's a good thing to let them have it back. They should never have taken it away in the first place.

Just like rogues shouldn't have our survivability nerfed like we have in every patch since TBC?

Let's see: Evasion not on Prep (actually pretty much everything other than Sprint and Vanish are off Prep at this point), ShS can't be used if you're rooted, no more Vanish-immune CC, Prep and ShS can't both be taken in MoP, etc.

Druids got breaking roots taken away, oh no. It's not needed if your team is decent; that's the justification that rogues got. "Oh, you don't need two Evasions, your team should be good enough."

Well yeah, we don't need two Evasions anymore because our class is never focused first because we've been so sh*tty for all of Cata.

Mazra wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
I don't know that it's needed in PvP, I don't see druids getting kited any more than rogues do, but good for you guys I guess.


I don't know how needed it'll be in MoP, but right now and for the last seven (eight) years, it's been key to our survival. Druids can't Vanish. Yet.

I know Vanish had its issues, but Ferals were sitting ducks for quite some time when they took away our ability to break roots (which is why they added it to two of our cooldowns later). Any ranged class could root us and nuke away. Unable to break the root. Unable to reset the fight. Unable to heal through the incoming damage due to having the lowest spell power of all the hybrids in the game...

It was, from a PvP perspective, similar to how they handled Ret Paladins in TBC or whenever. To the ground, baby. And stay there!

In before links to Feral Druid PvP videos after the change and before they added root-breakers to Dash and Stampeding Roar.

Edited, May 9th 2012 8:37pm by Mazra

Rogues still can't Vanish. The best you can do in a root is to drop a Smoke Bomb. Against every class you're going to have a dot on you, which means burning CloS at the same time, which is stupid. I burn my CloS offensively and should be able to ShS/KS a root.

Don't get me wrong, a good rogue is still a good rogue and a powerhouse, but so is a good feral. A rogue still can't beat a good feral because of bear form. You shift bear form and it's like I'm hitting you with wet noodles.
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#10 May 09 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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I blame resilience.

If it's any consolation, Arcane Mages two-shot me whenever I try to do any PvP. 100k Arcane Blasts are balanced and stuff.

Edit: I agree that Bear Form DPS output is crazy these days. I mean, I've topped damage done in every heroic I've run since Cataclysm was released. They need to lower the damage and increase the threat values, but apparently that's a bit beyond the development team's comprehension.

Edited, May 10th 2012 2:05am by Mazra
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#11 May 09 2012 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
I blame resilience.

If it's any consolation, Arcane Mages two-shot me whenever I try to do any PvP. 100k Arcane Blasts are balanced and stuff.

Edit: I agree that Bear Form DPS output is crazy these days. I mean, I've topped damage done in every heroic I've run since Cataclysm was released. They need to lower the damage and increase the threat values, but apparently that's a bit beyond the development team's comprehension.

Edited, May 10th 2012 2:05am by Mazra

No, you can't really blame resil. I can burst a full-resil disc priest (4500+ resil) in a Shadow Dance when I set it up, but unless I catch a really retarded feral in cat or caster, they're impossible to burst.

It's not about DPS, it's the fact that you get retarded amounts of survival tools (akin to a tank without having to spec it) while not having the sh*tty tank damage output.

If you're getting hit with 100k arcane blasts, it's because you don't have resil. I've never seen any ability used on me hit for over 25k. Either that or the arcane mage is in full PvE with trinkets/cooldowns popped and Berserker up.

I've seriously dueled ferals for 10-15 minutes because we both can't die. He can't out damage my Recup, and I can't do any damage to him period, outside of my ShD burst. It's retarded.
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#12 May 09 2012 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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If neither of you can die, isn't that... balance? You made it sound like the Druid would just pop Bear and rip you a new one.

I agree that it's a retarded kind of balance, but if neither of you are at an advantage (or disadvantage), isn't that balance?
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#13 May 09 2012 at 11:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
If neither of you can die, isn't that... balance? You made it sound like the Druid would just pop Bear and rip you a new one.

I agree that it's a retarded kind of balance, but if neither of you are at an advantage (or disadvantage), isn't that balance?

Not really. I'll eventually die primarily because even though I have unlimited resources, I can't mitigate damage like a druid can. I can mitigate through cooldowns for a while, but once my cooldowns are gone, I'm basically @#%^ed.

I'm not saying druids need to be nerfed to the ground (others need that far more than ferals), but I don't think they they're as terrible as they're being portrayed in this thread (and certainly not half as bad as they were back in TBC).
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#14 May 10 2012 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
I've never paid much attention to rogues, so I wasn't aware you guys had one of your key abilities taken away back in TBC. Hell, I probably wouldn't even know about roots being taken away from ferals if it wasn't for Maz and Horse bitching in the BDT. Smiley: tongue
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#15 May 10 2012 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I've never paid much attention to rogues, so I wasn't aware you guys had one of your key abilities taken away back in TBC. Hell, I probably wouldn't even know about roots being taken away from ferals if it wasn't for Maz and Horse bitching in the BDT. Smiley: tongue

It's not a major ability, but it seems like every patch we're getting more and more taken away from us. Most substantial was the ability to ShS while in roots, which can be a game breaker against a mage. And in MoP we're basically losing either ShS or Prep, which have both been pretty much necessary since TBC for PvP.

I keep playing because I love the rogue play style, but something has to give before we get turned into Warriors.
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#16 May 10 2012 at 3:28 AM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
I'm not saying druids need to be nerfed to the ground (others need that far more than ferals), but I don't think they they're as terrible as they're being portrayed in this thread (and certainly not half as bad as they were back in TBC).


Personally, my portrayal of them as being bad was in reference to the brief period of time between Blizzard nerfing shapeshifting out of roots to Blizzard adding a root-breaker to Dash and Stampeding Roar. Let's just say that PvP in that brief period (which lasted a month or two) consisted of a lot of /dance whenever you met a caster with roots of some kind.

Things got sort of better once we could break roots at least three times before being screwed. Frost Mages have seven roots*, though, which is why they've remained our hard counter, and which is why Horse used the thread title he did.

* Frost Nova > Elemental Nova > Cone of Cold talented > Ice Barrier break talented and then Cold Snap resets three of them. Actually, they have eight roots if you count Ring of Frost (nine if Cold Snap resets Ring of Frost). Oh, Frost Mages... Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, May 10th 2012 11:30am by Mazra
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#17 May 10 2012 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
I've seriously dueled ferals for 10-15 minutes because we both can't die. He can't out damage my Recup, and I can't do any damage to him period, outside of my ShD burst. It's retarded.


See this. So this. To all you people out there wondering why I don't want to duel you on my healer this is the answer. Smiley: mad

Overlord Theophany wrote:
I'm not saying druids need to be nerfed to the ground (others need that far more than ferals), but I don't think they they're as terrible as they're being portrayed in this thread (and certainly not half as bad as they were back in TBC).


Grumpy Maz is grumpy.

It's an ability though I think a lot of Druids would rather have had them balance around rather than removing (you know find another way to gimp them if necessary). The kind of thing that takes away from the unique flavor of the class, homogenization, or something.
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#18 May 10 2012 at 5:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Mazra wrote:

Personally, my portrayal of them as being bad was in reference to the brief period of time between Blizzard nerfing shapeshifting out of roots to Blizzard adding a root-breaker to Dash and Stampeding Roar. Let's just say that PvP in that brief period (which lasted a month or two) consisted of a lot of /dance whenever you met a caster with roots of some kind.



Almost like the old vanilla days where it was literally impossible for a druid to kill a warlock unless you managed to get lucky and crit enoughin your opening pounce to kill them. They could be on 1 health and if they got the fear off then the druid lost the fight.


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#19 May 10 2012 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
I've seriously dueled ferals for 10-15 minutes because we both can't die. He can't out damage my Recup, and I can't do any damage to him period, outside of my ShD burst. It's retarded.


See this. So this. To all you people out there wondering why I don't want to duel you on my healer this is the answer. Smiley: mad

Overlord Theophany wrote:
I'm not saying druids need to be nerfed to the ground (others need that far more than ferals), but I don't think they they're as terrible as they're being portrayed in this thread (and certainly not half as bad as they were back in TBC).


Grumpy Maz is grumpy.

It's an ability though I think a lot of Druids would rather have had them balance around rather than removing (you know find another way to gimp them if necessary). The kind of thing that takes away from the unique flavor of the class, homogenization, or something.

And see, it's this last part that I hate about what they're doing to rogues. Why are they taking away our ability to have Prep and ShS at the same time? Why not keep Prep as a Sub spec ability and allow all rogues to choose if they want ShS or another powerful ability?

It would be like taking away Disengage for a hunter if you have Readiness.

It's completely retarded and I hate that it will probably happen.
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#20 May 11 2012 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
It would be like taking away Disengage for a hunter if you have Readiness.


Is this where I swear my undying hatred for that ability? After leveling with it over the last couple of months I think I finally have the hang of it. Still when someone gets close my first reaction is wing clip and/or concussive shot while running past them. Smiley: lol


Edited, May 11th 2012 9:40am by someproteinguy
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#21 May 11 2012 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
It would be like taking away Disengage for a hunter if you have Readiness.


Is this where I swear my undying hatred for that ability? After leveling with it over the last couple of months I think I finally have the hang of it. Still when someone gets close my first reaction is wing clip and/or concussive shot while running past them. Smiley: lol


Edited, May 11th 2012 9:40am by someproteinguy

It just means you're old school or you have a severe aversion to going backwards.

If I didn't spam it in PvP (and sometimes in PvE) I would macro "WEEEE!" to it, because I think it's an amazing amount of fun.
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#22 May 16 2012 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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That's what i do with Frost mage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTIE_OQthDQ&feature=related
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