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[Rogue] MoP changes!Follow

#52 May 01 2012 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
More Sub nerfs; they're either idiots, or trying to nerf Sub into the ground:
Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.
  • [/ul]
    9 second stun in pvp, it's a typo for sure. Imagine +4 secs for a Kidney shot (13 secs stunlock).
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    #53 May 01 2012 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
    Quote:
    It's gotten kind of frustrating, playing Sub on the beta. Basically everything that made Sub really unique (Prep, ShS, Cheat Death) is a talent now. If I don't have to spec Sub to get Sub's best abilities, why would anyone spec Sub?

    Also, when you nerf Sub's burst output, the only thing it's good for (burst in Shadow Dance with 100% Ambush crits) is completely removed. That combined with the nerfs to Recup's (talented) healing makes me really grumpy when I PvP on beta.


    Why don't you post this over on the Beta forums? I know they at least listened to the shadow priests and changed some core abilities in this most recent patch.

    Edited, May 1st 2012 5:25pm by IDrownFish
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    #54 May 01 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    More Sub nerfs; they're either idiots, or trying to nerf Sub into the ground:
    Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.
  • 9 second stun in pvp, it's a typo for sure. Imagine +4 secs for a Kidney shot (13 secs stunlock).

    No, it's not a typo. You're just an idiot because you don't know how glyphs like this have worked in the past (Sap glyph).

    It's not that much different than a CS/KS/Gouge combo on live though, BTW.

    IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
    Quote:
    It's gotten kind of frustrating, playing Sub on the beta. Basically everything that made Sub really unique (Prep, ShS, Cheat Death) is a talent now. If I don't have to spec Sub to get Sub's best abilities, why would anyone spec Sub?

    Also, when you nerf Sub's burst output, the only thing it's good for (burst in Shadow Dance with 100% Ambush crits) is completely removed. That combined with the nerfs to Recup's (talented) healing makes me really grumpy when I PvP on beta.


    Why don't you post this over on the Beta forums? I know they at least listened to the shadow priests and changed some core abilities in this most recent patch.

    Edited, May 1st 2012 5:25pm by IDrownFish

    There are at least three 26+ page threads on the beta forums right now. Rogues haven't gotten a blue post in any of them. They're really reasonable threads as well, there isn't too much ******** and complaining from the main contributors.
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    #55 May 01 2012 at 7:56 PM Rating: Default
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    More Sub nerfs; they're either idiots, or trying to nerf Sub into the ground:
    Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.
  • 9 second stun in pvp, it's a typo for sure. Imagine +4 secs for a Kidney shot (13 secs stunlock).

    No, it's not a typo. You're just an idiot because you don't know how glyphs like this have worked in the past (Sap glyph).
    Pvp duration still capped at 8 seconds, it's beta and it's a bug. 9 secs stun is absurd, not like a fear who breaks with damage.
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    #56 May 01 2012 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    More Sub nerfs; they're either idiots, or trying to nerf Sub into the ground:
    Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.
  • 9 second stun in pvp, it's a typo for sure. Imagine +4 secs for a Kidney shot (13 secs stunlock).

    No, it's not a typo. You're just an idiot because you don't know how glyphs like this have worked in the past (Sap glyph).
    Pvp duration still capped at 8 seconds, it's beta and it's a bug. 9 secs stun is absurd, not like a fear who breaks with damage.

    You realize that 8 secs + 3 secs (DR KS) is 11 seconds, right? That's about what a stun lock lasted for pre-Cata. With damage being reduced across the board, I don't see how it's out of line.

    Also, 8 sec AoE fear says hi in the "I'm ******* OP" discussion.
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    #57 May 01 2012 at 10:59 PM Rating: Decent
    Psyfiend is going to be so f*cking fun.

    And Void Tendrils! The melee classes will just love those too!
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    #58 May 02 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    I don't see how it's out of line.
    Also, 8 sec AoE fear says hi in the "I'm @#%^ing OP" discussion.
    I can dispel fear, get fearless buff etc, fear breaks when damage and there are many ways to break it... Stun? Cheapshot 9 seconds, shadow dance/vanish - cheap shot 4.5 secs, kidney shot - 2 secs = 15.5 second stunlock.

    If you claiming it's normal you are a delusional player who needs all the help in the world so u can kill noobs in bg's. Comparing fear with 15.5 secs of Stunlock...pffft!


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    #59 May 02 2012 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
    Don't hate on a rogue that knows how to stun lock... that's how rogues have ALWAYS been. Personally, I can't stunlock worth crap. I'm a horrible rogue.
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    #60 May 03 2012 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    I don't see how it's out of line.
    Also, 8 sec AoE fear says hi in the "I'm @#%^ing OP" discussion.
    I can dispel fear, get fearless buff etc, fear breaks when damage and there are many ways to break it... Stun? Cheapshot 9 seconds, shadow dance/vanish - cheap shot 4.5 secs, kidney shot - 2 secs = 15.5 second stunlock.

    If you claiming it's normal you are a delusional player who needs all the help in the world so u can kill noobs in bg's. Comparing fear with 15.5 secs of Stunlock...pffft!

    You can't stun 6 people at once; you can definitely fear 6 people at once.

    I think I've proved over and over again that I need no help in PvP; I was killing 4500+ resil people in blues and greens on my rogue and my hunter (still do on my hunter).

    Anyway, a 8/9 second CS will never make it to live, so I don't know why we're even having this conversation.

    With how ****** rogue damage is on beta though, it wouldn't be out of line.
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    #61 May 03 2012 at 4:07 AM Rating: Default
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    Subtlety
  • Hemorrhage now deals an additional 100% direct strike's damage over 24 sec, up from 40%.
  • Mastery: Executioner now scales from 300% of, down from 250%.

  • Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 1 sec, down from 5 sec.

  • So you can be happy RAW, CS got adjusted. Is 5 seconds too long, or are you cool with that?

    I'm glad that Blizzard doesn't understand how ****** rogue damage is on beta that they think 60% more memo bleed damage makes up for it. Smiley: rolleyes
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    #62RAWDEAL, Posted: May 03 2012 at 5:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I told you it was a typo, it was never intented to be 9 secs. This proved that you don't understand high end PVP, stay in BG's killing easy target.
    #63 May 03 2012 at 5:50 AM Rating: Excellent
    How is it a typo when it was changed completely? The original increased it by 5 secs instead of reducing the energy cost, while the update just increases by 1 sec. Unless I'm just not understanding... which is most likely the possibility.
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    #64 May 03 2012 at 6:13 AM Rating: Default
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    xNocturnalSunx wrote:
    How is it a typo when it was changed completely? The original increased it by 5 secs instead of reducing the energy cost, while the update just increases by 1 sec. Unless I'm just not understanding... which is most likely the possibility.
    Quote:
    Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.[/


    It was supposed to read to 5 secs (it is 4 secs without glyph)
    Quote:
    Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot to 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.[/
    Your BF is just another poser, you should stick with me instead.
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    #65 May 03 2012 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
    FYI - Theo isn't my boyfriend and being with my fiance for 7 years, I don't really appreciate you assuming as such just because we've got a good friendship.

    Also, either way made sense to me so I wouldn't have notice it as being a typo but it just meaning Cheap Shot is now 5 seconds instead of 4.
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    #66RAWDEAL, Posted: May 03 2012 at 9:17 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I know, it was just funny how you tried to justify is lack of knowledge (for the higher end of PVP), you are a good friend.
    #67 May 03 2012 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    More Sub nerfs; they're either idiots, or trying to nerf Sub into the ground:
    Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.
  • 9 second stun in pvp, it's a typo for sure. Imagine +4 secs for a Kidney shot (13 secs stunlock).

    No, it's not a typo. You're just an idiot because you don't know how glyphs like this have worked in the past


    Overlord Theophany wrote:

    Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 1 sec, down from 5 sec.

  • So you can be happy RAW, CS got adjusted. Is 5 seconds too long, or are you cool with that?
    I told you it was a typo, it was never intented to be 9 secs. This proved that you don't understand high end PVP, stay in BG's killing easy target.


    RAWDEAL wrote:
    xNocturnalSunx wrote:
    FYI - Theo isn't my boyfriend and being with my fiance for 7 years, I don't really appreciate you assuming as such just because we've got a good friendship.
    I know, it was just funny how you tried to justify is lack of knowledge (for the higher end of PVP), you are a good friend.

    It wasn't a typo. It went onto beta (9 sec CS). If they really didn't intend it, that's what we call a bug. But since it made it onto beta and the tooltip wording was exactly the same, that's just a change they reverted because of the whining.

    Screenshot


    And yeah, I totally have a lack of knowledge of PvP. Multiple 1850+ seasons (every season I played), and a few 2200+ seasons in every bracket (S3/S4). I got to 2200 as feral/rogue back in TBC when ferals weren't even good in PvP. I also got it as feral/rogue/warrior/hunter/paladin back when people were still stacking 2-3 healers in 5v5.

    So yeah, I totally don't know what I'm talking about and you're completely correct, except that this would have to be opposite day because you're completely wrong and I know what I'm talking about because I'm on beta and I've been PvPing since 2004. Even a ****** like you has to learn something since then.

    Things you've been wrong about in this thread: DR duration of KS (something EVERYONE in PvP knows if they've done arena: half of 6 is 3, 1/4 of 6 is 1.5), 15.5 second stunlock (with the glyph, 9 + 4.5 + 2.25 = 15.75 is possible as you shouldn't even be using KS, you should be using CS to open, then CS to open your Shadow Dance, then to close your Shadow Dance), and the fact that this was a typo. If something goes live, it's obviously not a typo. This went live.

    EDIT: Oh, and you're also wrong about me and Noc. Smiley: tongue

    Edited, May 3rd 2012 12:18pm by Theophany
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    #68 May 03 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
    I figured he was saying that I was trying to justify what you were saying due to my lack of knowledge, or something like that. Which seriously, I have no effin' clue how to play my rogue in PvP. You've seen me... I'm horribad. I'm one of those people that will stand there while being stunlocked, feared and whatever cc you can image while someone tried to pummel me because I was the sux0rz.

    Theo wrote:
    EDIT: Oh, and you're also wrong about me and Noc.
    And don't get me wrong... I do think Theo is a handsome looking guy and wouldn't have a problem dating him if I wasn't committed lol (and if he didn't care about my evil, staring at flowers photo)... ANYWHO...
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    #69RAWDEAL, Posted: May 03 2012 at 3:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Lol, you are something. I'm leaving your stupid a ss thread, do yourself a favor and level your Huntard.
    #70 May 04 2012 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    Things you've been wrong about in this thread: DR duration of KS (something EVERYONE in PvP knows if they've done arena: half of 6 is 3, 1/4 of 6 is 1.5), 15.5 second stunlock (with the glyph, 9 + 4.5 + 2.25 = 15.75 is possible as you shouldn't even be using KS, you should be using CS to open, then CS to open your Shadow Dance, then to close your Shadow Dance), and the fact that this was a typo. If something goes live, it's obviously not a typo. This went live.
    Lol, you are something. I'm leaving your stupid a ss thread, do yourself a favor and level your Huntard.

    Translation: "I suck and have no idea what I'm talking about but I think I'm better than Theo. He in fact proved that he's better than me, so I'm taking my toys and going home. Smiley: crySmiley: crySmiley: cry"
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    #71 May 08 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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    Baseline
  • Evasion no longer reduces the chance that ranged attacks will hit you.
  • Garrote no longer requires you to be behind the target.

  • Subtlety
  • Hemorrhage now deals 140% weapon damage, up from 100%. Now deals 203% weapon damage if a dagger is equipped, up from 145%. Now deals an additional 50% bleeding damage, down from 100%.

  • Minor Glyphs
  • Glyph of Detection - Teaches you the ability Detection. Focus intently on trying to detect something.

  • Hemo buff was needed, Evasion nerf was not, especially since 90% of rogues won't have Prep anymore.

    I like the Garrote change, though.
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    #72 May 11 2012 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    With how sh*tty rogue damage is on beta though, it wouldn't be out of line.


    Just wanted to chip in, rogues always have scaled exceptionally well with gear. Every expansion thus far rogues seem to start out weak and by the end we're the best DPS in game (with exceptions). It happened in Wrath, and Cata. I remember threads here complaining near the beginning of Wrath about how poor rogues did and many people switched to DKs.

    I'm not sure about how Panda is progressing so far as I haven't kept up with much class-wise, but in Cata I semi retired my rogue after the first tier. He's still my *main* in heart but I just felt awkward switching to backstab at %. I don't know I just felt weird doing it. Besides I was having an easier time getting invites being a healy druid, instead of random dps #5.

    That and I always felt ,in PvE at least, rogues should be based around doing top dps but sacrifice raid utility, and many classes seemed very close to us in that race but brought more to the table (Hunters/Mages ranged, Pallys back up heals/rez, etc.) , and there were many fights that were not rogue friendly at all. Rogues out of all the classes need to be in the thick of it, and while we do have some of the best damage mitigation abilities, it took a LOT of skill to stay on target and, in Cata, it seemed if you weren't on the ball every moment, you turned into a healing sponge. I felt the rogue risk/reward for rogues was well balanced, and in Cata with the more *complicated* rotation and trend of more rogue unfriendly fights, the risk outweighed the minor reward.

    I know much of this could boil down to "Play better noob", and I don't mean to QQ, but after starting to lead raids I would ask myself, "Is bringing a rogue, who does a few K more dps then other classes, outweigh those other classes utility/survivability (even if they aren't on the ball) but do comparable DPS even if they do mess up a little bit". I just saw better classes to choose from. Just saying rogues pop the wrong defensive CD at the wrong moment wont have it when they need it again and will A) Die quickly B) have to back away from the boss and lose a good chunk of dps where other classes seem to have more ranged options.

    Sorry for the mini rant, just figured I would throw this out there. Also now that I think about it I kinda stopped playing rogue also because my guild blew up and from the after the first tier I never found a raid group I clicked with as well. Meh

    TL:DR - Risk/reward for rogues in Cata seemed Imba. Looking forward to see if Bliz addresses this in Panda.

    If you were talking the PeeVeePees, I'm probably the worst rogue ever in that context so dismiss this all and carry on.
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    #73 May 11 2012 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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    I was mostly talking about leveling and PvP, which I've never had a problem with. My rogue is from December 2004 and has been my main pretty much the whole time.

    I know what you're talking about in PvE, but that's never really applied to PvP. MYteddy and I were doing rogue/DK and rogue/rogue in WotLK and were doing fine (better than fine, we got to 1850 just ******* around with little to no gear) in early seasons. By the same token rogues did pretty well in PvP early on in Cata even though we had pretty ****** damage in PvE.

    Rogue damage is pretty awful as it stands right now on beta, and that concerns me. Healers are healing straight through rogue damage even with interrupts and stuns. It's pretty ******* at the moment.

    Maybe that changes with weapon upgrades, maybe it doesn't. We'll have to see.
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    #74 May 11 2012 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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    Yeah I figured you might have been talking more about PvP since you're like the go to PvP rogue of Zam. That sucks that healers are healing through rogue damage atm, but It might change at 90 (Or are you @90, I was under the assumption this beta would be like all the others with staggered zone/cap release during it) Maybe thats why Bliz is increasing stun time for rogues instead of giving them more burst giving them longer stuns, so you have to be more skilled with CD's, and less LOLShSBSBOOM burst that imbalances PvE (sometimes).

    I'm going to have to watch to see if this is the way Bliz is going to balance rogues. Balancing around skill is much harder then balancing around power in PvP, in my limited experience. Stuns in PvE, outside leveling, are *almost* useless.
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    #76 May 18 2012 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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  • Eviscerate had damage and AP scaling increased by 45%.
  • Rupture had damage and AP scaling increased by 45%.
  • Shiv no longer awards 0 combo points.
  • Sinister Strike had damage and bonus damage increased by 50%.

  • Assassination
  • Dispatch had damage and bonus damage increased by 55%.
  • Envenom had damage and AP scaling increased by 48%.
  • Mutilate had damage and bonus damage increased by 54%.

  • Combat
  • Revealing Strike had damage increased by 60%.

  • Looks like they're listening and making changes to buff damage %s. Now if they would just buff Ambush to have a 80-90% chance to crit and buff BS to have a 50-60% chance to crit and buff Hemo's damage, we'd be getting enthusiastic comments from rogues.
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    #77 May 19 2012 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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    Mana should slow down health decay, not stop it completely.

    Triage healing, where art thou?
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    #78 May 21 2012 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
    These changes... Please keep them. Seriously though, I'm liking it if they stay that way.
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    #79 May 21 2012 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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    Sooo, I apparently made a post in here last night. About triage healing. In a MoP Rogue thread.

    That's interesting. Smiley: dubious
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    #80 May 21 2012 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
    Yeah I had no idea what you were talking about with mana...
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    #81 May 21 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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    Drunken tirade, I guess. Must have mistaken this thread for the BDT.
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    #82 May 21 2012 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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    xNocturnalSunx wrote:
    These changes... Please keep them. Seriously though, I'm liking it if they stay that way.

    I'm not completely happy yet. Rogues still need some things fixed before I'm content with how we'll be entering MoP.
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    #83 Jul 23 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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    I know this is an "old" thread by zam terms (despite still being like the 5th most recent on this board). But I'm pretty excited by some of these changes. I might take the opportunity to level a new rogue on a PvP realm, especially with cross-realm zoning bringing back some life to an otherwise sparse leveling landscape.
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    #84 Aug 13 2012 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
    nah, that's fine
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    #85 Aug 13 2012 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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    A Wild admin appears, Kinda random 20 day later response?
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    #86 Aug 14 2012 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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    A wild admin appears!

    Admin uses stamp of approval!

    It's super effective!
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    #87 Aug 17 2012 at 4:42 AM Rating: Decent
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    May i mention theres been another boost to rogue damage calculations.

    Ambush: 245% + 408 changed to 325% + 623 to the target. With a dagger 355% +408 changed to 470% + 623. Awards 2 combo point.

    Eviscerate: 5 points: 0 (+ 100% of SpellPower)+(( <previously 862> 980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1-0 (+ 100% of SpellPower)+((<previously 862>980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1 damage

    Dispatch: 350% + 383 changed to 520% weapon damage + 568 to the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point. Replaces Sinister Strike

    Killing Spree: Step through the shadows from enemy to enemy within 10 yards, attacking an enemy every 0.5 sec with both weapons until 7 assaults are made, and increasing all damage done by 100% (used to be 20%) for the duration. Can hit the same target multiple times. Cannot hit invisible or stealthed targets.

    Deadly Throw: Finishing move that reduces the movement speed of the target by 50% for 6 sec. If performed with 5 combo points, also interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 6 sec. 5 points: <previously 214>268+((0) + AP * 0.6)*<previously 641>1-801+((0) + AP * 0.6)*1 damage

    Edited, Aug 17th 2012 1:23pm by Tenjen
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    Also they aren't pixels, they're polygons, any **** you watch on your PC is pixels, and besides, real women are just cells.
    #88 Aug 18 2012 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Sinister Strike damage and additional damage reduced by 11%.

    Dispatch now does 450% weapon damage, down from 520%. Additional damage reduced by 26%.
    Venomous Wounds damage reduced by 8%.

    Killing Spree now increases all damage done by 50% for the duration, down from 100%.
    Revealing Strike now does 135% weapon damage, down from 150%.


    nevermind, they're tweaking and experimenting.
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    Also they aren't pixels, they're polygons, any **** you watch on your PC is pixels, and besides, real women are just cells.
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