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[Rogue] MoP changes!Follow

#1 Mar 27 2012 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting stuff from MMO-Champion. Every class is up, just figured I'd post the rogue stuff 'cuz that's all I care about. Smiley: tongue

EDIT: Honestly I think the Sub changes and the Ambush/BS changes are fantastic. I'm really, really looking forward to them. Kick and Crippling Poison nerfs kind of suck, though. Same with Fleet Footed.

Skills
  • Ambush: Now does 245%/355% weapon damage, up from 190/275%.
  • Blind: No longer breaks stealth.
  • Crippling Poison: Now reduces movement speed by 50%, down from 70%.
  • Deadly Poison: Coats your weapons with a Lethal Poison that lasts for 1 hour. Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy for 2656 Nature damage over 12 sec. Subsequent poison applications will instantly deal 298 to 395 Nature damage.
  • Expose Armor: No longer gains an increased duration for more combo points. Now stacks 3 times for a total of 12% armor reduction, lasting 30 sec.
  • Feint: No longer has a cooldown. Performs an evasive maneuver, reducing damage taken from area-of-effect attacks by 50% for 5 sec.
  • Fleet Footed: No longer increases healing effects on you.
  • Gouge: No longer does damage or generates a combo point.
  • Kick: Now has a 15 sec cooldown, up from 10 sec.
  • Shadow Walk: New. Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec. 1 min cooldown.
  • Shiv: Now has a 10 sec cooldown. Strikes an enemy's pressure point with your off-hand weapon, dealing 25% weapon damage, dispelling an Enrage effect from the target, and applying a concentrated form of your active Non-Lethal poison. Awards 1 combo point.
  • Shroud of Concealment: New. Extend a cloak that wraps party and raid members within 20 yards in shadows, concealing them from sight. 5 min cooldown.
  • Sinister Strike: Now costs 40 energy, down from 45. Now does 90% weapon damage, down from 100%.
  • Slice and Dice: Duration increased from 9-21 seconds to 12-36 seconds.
  • Swiftblade's Cunning: New. Increases the melee and ranged attack speed of all party and raid members within 100 yards by 10%.
  • Wound Poison: Renamed from Instant Poison, now reduces all healing effects on the target by 25% for 15 sec.


Combat
  • Bandit's Guile: Your training allows you to recognize and take advantage of the natural ebb and flow of combat. Your Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike abilities increase your damage dealt by up to 30%. After reaching this maximum, the effect will fade after 15 sec and the cycle will begin anew.
  • Revealing Strike: Now does 75% weapon damage, down from 125%. Duration increased to 18 seconds, up from 15 seconds. Now also gives your Sinister Strikes a 20% chance to generate an extra combo point.
  • Vitality: Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 20% (was 25%) and your Attack Power by 25% (was 30%).


Assassination
  • Cut to the Chase: Your Eviscerate refreshes your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.
  • Dispatch: New. A vicious strike that exploits the vulnerability of foes with less than 35% health remaining, causing 195% weapon damage plus 744.9 to the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point. 30 energy.
  • Envenom: Finishing move that deals instant poison damage proportional to the number of combo points on the target. Following the Envenom attack, your poison application chance is increased by 15%, for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point.
  • Improved Poisons: Increases the application chance of Deadly Poison and Wound Poison by 20%.
  • Mutilate: Now costs 55 energy, down from 60. Now does 140% weapon damage, down from 179%.
  • Vendetta: Duration reduced to 20 sec, down from 30. Now increases the damage you deal to the target by 30%, up from 20%.


Subtlety
  • Backstab: Now costs 35 energy, down from 60. Now does 275% weapon damage, up from 200%.
  • Energetic Recovery: While your Slice and Dice ability is active, you regain 8 Energy every 2 sec.
  • Hemorrhage: Now costs 30 energy, down from 35. An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a dagger is equipped). When used on a target that is bleeding, opens the wound further to deal an additional 40% of the direct strike's damage over 24 sec. Awards 1 combo point. Replaces Sinister Strike.
  • Honor Among Thieves: When any player in your party or raid critically hits with a spell or ability, you gain a combo point on your current target. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds, and cannot occur while you are stealthed.
  • Sanguinary Vein: Increases your damage dealt to targets with a Bleed effect on them by 20%.
  • Shadow Dance: Enter the Shadow Dance for 8 sec, allowing the use of abilities that ordinarily require Stealth. The energy cost of Ambush is reduced by 20 while Shadow Dance is active.
  • Sinister Calling: No longer increases the percentage damage bonus of Backstab and Hemorrhage.


Edited, Mar 26th 2012 11:20pm by Theophany
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#2 Mar 27 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
The combat changes kind of suck. I felt like the last time they messed with combat's regen rate, I'm CONSTANTLY waiting for my energy to get back up (unlike before). Lowering it even more is kind of stupid. Other than that, I honestly sometimes forget about RS. I know it should be in my rotation but sometimes, it seems rather pointless.

I do like Mut's Cut to the Chase change. Would save time with the whole SnD, and maybe that'll counter the above combat issue, since I wouldn't have to constantly refresh SnD (plus the increase in its' duration). I haven't looked at the talent tree in a while so I don't even know where CtTC is placed.
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#3 Mar 27 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Another interrupt with an increased CD huh?

Well they certainly aren't subtle about the way that's going. Smiley: clown

Quote:
Wound Poison: Renamed from Instant Poison, now reduces all healing effects on the target by 25% for 15 sec.


Smiley: confused

So did they get rid of instant poison then and just consolidated?



Edited, Mar 27th 2012 8:38am by someproteinguy
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#4 Mar 27 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
I was a bit confused by that as well. Since Instant was one of the main ones Combat uses.
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90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
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85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#5 Mar 27 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
The combat changes kind of suck. I felt like the last time they messed with combat's regen rate, I'm CONSTANTLY waiting for my energy to get back up (unlike before). Lowering it even more is kind of stupid. Other than that, I honestly sometimes forget about RS. I know it should be in my rotation but sometimes, it seems rather pointless.

I do like Mut's Cut to the Chase change. Would save time with the whole SnD, and maybe that'll counter the above combat issue, since I wouldn't have to constantly refresh SnD (plus the increase in its' duration). I haven't looked at the talent tree in a while so I don't even know where CtTC is placed.

Most of the Mutilate and Combat stuff is actually keeping them the same (except for the Vitality change, which may not even go live); from what I've read since coming back weapon damage on the actual weapons will be up much higher than it is in Cata, and thus they're reducing AP and weapon damage stats in abilities and talents to compensate.

It'll normalize damage a lot more, so that it's more about how skilled you are with your class and what weapon(s) you have instead of how you spec yourself.

Keep in mind this is their initial changes. The initial changes for rogues from Cata beta doesn't look anything like what rogues are like on live today.
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The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#6 Mar 27 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
That's true. Hopefully we don't see more rogues out there that think they're the ****, when really... they're not.
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90 Rogue - Aresella
90 Shaman - Aislynn
90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
85 Hunter - Xeliara
85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#7 Mar 27 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
That's true. Hopefully we don't see more rogues out there that think they're the ****, when really... they're not.

Rogue is still a pretty tough class to get right, based on rotation. Being a second or two off means you drop a couple thousand DPS.

Some things to take note of that I missed before looking at wowhead's talent calculator and playing around with it:

Backstab is level 40, and Sub only.

Expose Armor is an actual ability now that gives combo points and stacks 3 times.

Poisons aren't consumables anymore, just spells that you cast on your weapons (YAY!).

Instant and Wound poison are merged into one poison.

Symbiosis for druids sounds pretty neat (and should give us a pretty cool thing to play with).

I'm still unsure whether PvP rogues will be taking Prep or ShS. Probably Prep, but I'm scared to lose ShS's mobility. I'm thinking that Blizzard will change that tier of talents, but who knows?

Swiftblade's Cunning is a base-line rogue trait similar to how HaT works right now; anyone in the rogue's raid gets melee and ranged attack speed boosted by 10%, and for rogues it's permanent.

Blind from stealth?! WTF. Pretty crazy PvP potential, as even if you're in stealth you can CC someone in combat without leaving stealth and giving away your opener.

Shadow Walk is like the days of pre-Vanish back in TBC so you don't get sapped out of stealth; should be a really nice ability.

Shroud of Concealment is going to be an interesting ability; stealthing a whole raid should be pretty cool, and it has a lot of interesting uses for BGs and arena.
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#8 Mar 28 2012 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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I like the Sub changes, the SnD also does the current Recup regen gimmick will make it less punishing to play in PvE. The SD change to Ambush energy is awesome sauce.
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#9 Mar 28 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know if I am the only one, but holy crap I am glad that Theo is back on the boards to discuss this stuff.

I feel like I am a pretty good player, but Rogue intimidates me, and I am happy as a pig in ***** that Theo is getting back to looking at the numbers.
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#10 Mar 28 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Moonkissed wrote:
I don't know if I am the only one, but holy crap I am glad that Theo is back on the boards to discuss this stuff.

I feel like I am a pretty good player, but Rogue intimidates me, and I am happy as a pig in ***** that Theo is getting back to looking at the numbers.

Actually I think rogue is one of the easiest classes to play, but hardest to master. Like any class in WoW though, it's all about the time you take to put experience in.

You should give rogue a shot, you never know how much fun it is sneaking around in stealth completing quests like a ninja until you try. And I strongly feel that the current iteration of rogue and the coming one in MoP is the most fun rogues have ever been for soloing (no down-time, massive damage, fun abilities). ****, I do dailies just for fun because I love how my character plays. That's never really happened before.
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The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
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Rogue Hunter
#11 Mar 28 2012 at 11:55 PM Rating: Good
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New stuff on beta! As usual, MMO-Champion has the deets, but here's the rogue:

Skills
  • Fan of Knives: This attack has a chance of applying your active poisons at their normal rate.
  • Master Poisoner: New. Increases the spell damage taken by any target you have poisoned by 5%.


Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.


Assassination
  • Blindside: New. Performing a successful Mutilate has a 30% chance of leaving you in an advantageous position, enabling a single use of Dispatch regardless of the enemy target's health.
  • Dispatch: Now does 225% weapon damage plus 859.5, up from 195% weapon damage plus 744.9.
  • Mutilate: Now does 130% weapon damage, down from 140%.


Subtlety
  • Hemorrhage: Reworked: An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a dagger is equipped), causing profuse bleeding that deals an additional 40% of the direct strike's damage over 24 sec. Awards 1 combo point.


Hemo change was needed to bring it back in-line with how it functions on live, nice to see combat getting some love, and FoK and Master Poisoner look nice.

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 10:59pm by Theophany
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The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#12 Mar 29 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.




Wasn't there some stink a while back about the issue with combat potency considering a slow OH for the combat spec? Because combat has always been slow MH, Fast OH, and having combat potency doing that just changes everything.

I do like the Killing spree change though. I love me some KS =P
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Alliance
90 Rogue - Aresella
90 Shaman - Aislynn
90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
85 Hunter - Xeliara
85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#13 Mar 29 2012 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.




Wasn't there some stink a while back about the issue with combat potency considering a slow OH for the combat spec? Because combat has always been slow MH, Fast OH, and having combat potency doing that just changes everything.

I do like the Killing spree change though. I love me some KS =P

I'm pretty sure that all this means is that it doesn't matter what speed your OH is for Combat Potency.
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The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#14 Mar 29 2012 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
The wording just makes it confusing, but I see what you mean. You know there's going to be people out there that's going to spaz out about it though.
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90 Shaman - Aislynn
90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
85 Hunter - Xeliara
85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#15 Mar 29 2012 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
The wording just makes it confusing, but I see what you mean. You know there's going to be people out there that's going to spaz out about it though.

Like Mazra who spazzes out and ******* and whines about everything incessantly? Smiley: grin
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#16 Mar 29 2012 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.




Wasn't there some stink a while back about the issue with combat potency considering a slow OH for the combat spec? Because combat has always been slow MH, Fast OH, and having combat potency doing that just changes everything.

I do like the Killing spree change though. I love me some KS =P

I'm pretty sure that all this means is that it doesn't matter what speed your OH is for Combat Potency.


Proportions are a hard concept for most of the player base.
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#17 Mar 30 2012 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to start learning how to add fractions next week, and boy am I psyched about it.
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#18 Mar 30 2012 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
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You're going to learn to add horde and alliance?
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#19 Mar 30 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I just got my rogue to 85. My issue is that I somehow suck. It may be that I just don't know what abilities to use when. It might be that I am used to dpsing as a caster.

I usually Mutilate to 4 combo points
Then I Shiv for the last combo point
I Rupture
Mutilate to 4
Shiv
Eviscerate

Then the mob is usually dead. Now, I have not run a dungeon yet. So I need to try out mobs with more health so that I can actually use Slice and Dice etc.

I feel like I get a lot more damage out of my Shaman than my Rogue, so it is probably a questions of getting used to it.

Edit: Yeah spelling

Edited, Mar 30th 2012 10:51am by Moonkissed
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#20 Mar 30 2012 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
First off, use Envenom over Eviscerate. With talents, it shouldn't be consuming Deadly Poison stacks, and Instant Poison on you MH/Deadly Poison on OH is what you need to be using.

Glyphs are, Prime: Mutilate, Rupture, Backstab, Major: Tricks, Feint, Sprint, Fan of Knives (pick three, but Tricks is mandatory).

Mutilate should be your main combo point generator. Get in the habit of attacking the boss from behind.

For finishers, use this priority:

SnD > Rupture > Envenom

This means that your first priority is getting SnD up. After that, get Rupture up. If both are up, use Envenom. Keep in mind that Envenom will refresh SnD, but only if SnD is already up.

Make sure for Rupture and Envenom, you're using 4 or 5 combo point finishers. If you're sitting at 4 combo points, since the max is 5, it would be a waste to use Mutilate again to generate just one combo point, and thus a loss in dps.

After 35%, replace Mutilate with Backstab.

Edited, Mar 30th 2012 11:22am by IDrownFish
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#21 Apr 02 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Fish! I will have to keep that in mind. That strat is mainly for Boss fights though right? Can can't see that working well on trash since they die so fast.
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In a world where studies show marriages now run into trouble after three years, it is probably to be expected that games lose their enchantment at least as quickly.
#22 Apr 02 2012 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Moonkissed wrote:
Thanks Fish! I will have to keep that in mind. That strat is mainly for Boss fights though right? Can can't see that working well on trash since they die so fast.

As a rogue you're not brought along to handle trash; you're brought to do amazing single-target DPS on bosses with minimal attention paid to you by healers (we have the best mechanics for mitigating boss damage between Recup, Feint, Vanish, Evasion, Sprint, etc).

For trash I generally just FoKed everything. Smiley: grin
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#23 Apr 02 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Don't get back into the whole FoKing everything talk. Let's keep it PG in here!

Smiley: lol
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90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
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85 Priest - Alaxandra
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30 Monk - Faewyn
#24 Apr 02 2012 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Don't get back into the whole FoKing everything talk. Let's keep it PG in here!

Smiley: lol

You're just jealous that I can't FoK you.

Am I doing it right? Smiley: grin
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The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#25 Apr 03 2012 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Overlord Theophany wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Don't get back into the whole FoKing everything talk. Let's keep it PG in here!

Smiley: lol

You're just jealous that I can't FoK you.

Am I doing it right? Smiley: grin


Maybe you are... Maybe you're not... I'm a bit uncertain on what I should say... Smiley: eek
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90 Shaman - Aislynn
90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
85 Hunter - Xeliara
85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#26 Apr 03 2012 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, that makes me feel much better. I am doing ok on boss fights, but terribly on Trash. I will have to stick to FoKing around with Trash.
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In a world where studies show marriages now run into trouble after three years, it is probably to be expected that games lose their enchantment at least as quickly.
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