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[Rogue] MoP changes!Follow

#1 Mar 27 2012 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting stuff from MMO-Champion. Every class is up, just figured I'd post the rogue stuff 'cuz that's all I care about. Smiley: tongue

EDIT: Honestly I think the Sub changes and the Ambush/BS changes are fantastic. I'm really, really looking forward to them. Kick and Crippling Poison nerfs kind of suck, though. Same with Fleet Footed.

Skills
  • Ambush: Now does 245%/355% weapon damage, up from 190/275%.
  • Blind: No longer breaks stealth.
  • Crippling Poison: Now reduces movement speed by 50%, down from 70%.
  • Deadly Poison: Coats your weapons with a Lethal Poison that lasts for 1 hour. Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy for 2656 Nature damage over 12 sec. Subsequent poison applications will instantly deal 298 to 395 Nature damage.
  • Expose Armor: No longer gains an increased duration for more combo points. Now stacks 3 times for a total of 12% armor reduction, lasting 30 sec.
  • Feint: No longer has a cooldown. Performs an evasive maneuver, reducing damage taken from area-of-effect attacks by 50% for 5 sec.
  • Fleet Footed: No longer increases healing effects on you.
  • Gouge: No longer does damage or generates a combo point.
  • Kick: Now has a 15 sec cooldown, up from 10 sec.
  • Shadow Walk: New. Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec. 1 min cooldown.
  • Shiv: Now has a 10 sec cooldown. Strikes an enemy's pressure point with your off-hand weapon, dealing 25% weapon damage, dispelling an Enrage effect from the target, and applying a concentrated form of your active Non-Lethal poison. Awards 1 combo point.
  • Shroud of Concealment: New. Extend a cloak that wraps party and raid members within 20 yards in shadows, concealing them from sight. 5 min cooldown.
  • Sinister Strike: Now costs 40 energy, down from 45. Now does 90% weapon damage, down from 100%.
  • Slice and Dice: Duration increased from 9-21 seconds to 12-36 seconds.
  • Swiftblade's Cunning: New. Increases the melee and ranged attack speed of all party and raid members within 100 yards by 10%.
  • Wound Poison: Renamed from Instant Poison, now reduces all healing effects on the target by 25% for 15 sec.


Combat
  • Bandit's Guile: Your training allows you to recognize and take advantage of the natural ebb and flow of combat. Your Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike abilities increase your damage dealt by up to 30%. After reaching this maximum, the effect will fade after 15 sec and the cycle will begin anew.
  • Revealing Strike: Now does 75% weapon damage, down from 125%. Duration increased to 18 seconds, up from 15 seconds. Now also gives your Sinister Strikes a 20% chance to generate an extra combo point.
  • Vitality: Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 20% (was 25%) and your Attack Power by 25% (was 30%).


Assassination
  • Cut to the Chase: Your Eviscerate refreshes your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.
  • Dispatch: New. A vicious strike that exploits the vulnerability of foes with less than 35% health remaining, causing 195% weapon damage plus 744.9 to the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point. 30 energy.
  • Envenom: Finishing move that deals instant poison damage proportional to the number of combo points on the target. Following the Envenom attack, your poison application chance is increased by 15%, for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point.
  • Improved Poisons: Increases the application chance of Deadly Poison and Wound Poison by 20%.
  • Mutilate: Now costs 55 energy, down from 60. Now does 140% weapon damage, down from 179%.
  • Vendetta: Duration reduced to 20 sec, down from 30. Now increases the damage you deal to the target by 30%, up from 20%.


Subtlety
  • Backstab: Now costs 35 energy, down from 60. Now does 275% weapon damage, up from 200%.
  • Energetic Recovery: While your Slice and Dice ability is active, you regain 8 Energy every 2 sec.
  • Hemorrhage: Now costs 30 energy, down from 35. An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a dagger is equipped). When used on a target that is bleeding, opens the wound further to deal an additional 40% of the direct strike's damage over 24 sec. Awards 1 combo point. Replaces Sinister Strike.
  • Honor Among Thieves: When any player in your party or raid critically hits with a spell or ability, you gain a combo point on your current target. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds, and cannot occur while you are stealthed.
  • Sanguinary Vein: Increases your damage dealt to targets with a Bleed effect on them by 20%.
  • Shadow Dance: Enter the Shadow Dance for 8 sec, allowing the use of abilities that ordinarily require Stealth. The energy cost of Ambush is reduced by 20 while Shadow Dance is active.
  • Sinister Calling: No longer increases the percentage damage bonus of Backstab and Hemorrhage.


Edited, Mar 26th 2012 11:20pm by Theophany
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#2 Mar 27 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
The combat changes kind of suck. I felt like the last time they messed with combat's regen rate, I'm CONSTANTLY waiting for my energy to get back up (unlike before). Lowering it even more is kind of stupid. Other than that, I honestly sometimes forget about RS. I know it should be in my rotation but sometimes, it seems rather pointless.

I do like Mut's Cut to the Chase change. Would save time with the whole SnD, and maybe that'll counter the above combat issue, since I wouldn't have to constantly refresh SnD (plus the increase in its' duration). I haven't looked at the talent tree in a while so I don't even know where CtTC is placed.
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#3 Mar 27 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Another interrupt with an increased CD huh?

Well they certainly aren't subtle about the way that's going. Smiley: clown

Quote:
Wound Poison: Renamed from Instant Poison, now reduces all healing effects on the target by 25% for 15 sec.


Smiley: confused

So did they get rid of instant poison then and just consolidated?



Edited, Mar 27th 2012 8:38am by someproteinguy
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#4 Mar 27 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
I was a bit confused by that as well. Since Instant was one of the main ones Combat uses.
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#5 Mar 27 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
The combat changes kind of suck. I felt like the last time they messed with combat's regen rate, I'm CONSTANTLY waiting for my energy to get back up (unlike before). Lowering it even more is kind of stupid. Other than that, I honestly sometimes forget about RS. I know it should be in my rotation but sometimes, it seems rather pointless.

I do like Mut's Cut to the Chase change. Would save time with the whole SnD, and maybe that'll counter the above combat issue, since I wouldn't have to constantly refresh SnD (plus the increase in its' duration). I haven't looked at the talent tree in a while so I don't even know where CtTC is placed.

Most of the Mutilate and Combat stuff is actually keeping them the same (except for the Vitality change, which may not even go live); from what I've read since coming back weapon damage on the actual weapons will be up much higher than it is in Cata, and thus they're reducing AP and weapon damage stats in abilities and talents to compensate.

It'll normalize damage a lot more, so that it's more about how skilled you are with your class and what weapon(s) you have instead of how you spec yourself.

Keep in mind this is their initial changes. The initial changes for rogues from Cata beta doesn't look anything like what rogues are like on live today.
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#6 Mar 27 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
That's true. Hopefully we don't see more rogues out there that think they're the ****, when really... they're not.
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#7 Mar 27 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
That's true. Hopefully we don't see more rogues out there that think they're the ****, when really... they're not.

Rogue is still a pretty tough class to get right, based on rotation. Being a second or two off means you drop a couple thousand DPS.

Some things to take note of that I missed before looking at wowhead's talent calculator and playing around with it:

Backstab is level 40, and Sub only.

Expose Armor is an actual ability now that gives combo points and stacks 3 times.

Poisons aren't consumables anymore, just spells that you cast on your weapons (YAY!).

Instant and Wound poison are merged into one poison.

Symbiosis for druids sounds pretty neat (and should give us a pretty cool thing to play with).

I'm still unsure whether PvP rogues will be taking Prep or ShS. Probably Prep, but I'm scared to lose ShS's mobility. I'm thinking that Blizzard will change that tier of talents, but who knows?

Swiftblade's Cunning is a base-line rogue trait similar to how HaT works right now; anyone in the rogue's raid gets melee and ranged attack speed boosted by 10%, and for rogues it's permanent.

Blind from stealth?! WTF. Pretty crazy PvP potential, as even if you're in stealth you can CC someone in combat without leaving stealth and giving away your opener.

Shadow Walk is like the days of pre-Vanish back in TBC so you don't get sapped out of stealth; should be a really nice ability.

Shroud of Concealment is going to be an interesting ability; stealthing a whole raid should be pretty cool, and it has a lot of interesting uses for BGs and arena.
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#8 Mar 28 2012 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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I like the Sub changes, the SnD also does the current Recup regen gimmick will make it less punishing to play in PvE. The SD change to Ambush energy is awesome sauce.
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#9 Mar 28 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know if I am the only one, but holy crap I am glad that Theo is back on the boards to discuss this stuff.

I feel like I am a pretty good player, but Rogue intimidates me, and I am happy as a pig in ***** that Theo is getting back to looking at the numbers.
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#10 Mar 28 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Moonkissed wrote:
I don't know if I am the only one, but holy crap I am glad that Theo is back on the boards to discuss this stuff.

I feel like I am a pretty good player, but Rogue intimidates me, and I am happy as a pig in ***** that Theo is getting back to looking at the numbers.

Actually I think rogue is one of the easiest classes to play, but hardest to master. Like any class in WoW though, it's all about the time you take to put experience in.

You should give rogue a shot, you never know how much fun it is sneaking around in stealth completing quests like a ninja until you try. And I strongly feel that the current iteration of rogue and the coming one in MoP is the most fun rogues have ever been for soloing (no down-time, massive damage, fun abilities). ****, I do dailies just for fun because I love how my character plays. That's never really happened before.
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#11 Mar 28 2012 at 11:55 PM Rating: Good
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New stuff on beta! As usual, MMO-Champion has the deets, but here's the rogue:

Skills
  • Fan of Knives: This attack has a chance of applying your active poisons at their normal rate.
  • Master Poisoner: New. Increases the spell damage taken by any target you have poisoned by 5%.


Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.


Assassination
  • Blindside: New. Performing a successful Mutilate has a 30% chance of leaving you in an advantageous position, enabling a single use of Dispatch regardless of the enemy target's health.
  • Dispatch: Now does 225% weapon damage plus 859.5, up from 195% weapon damage plus 744.9.
  • Mutilate: Now does 130% weapon damage, down from 140%.


Subtlety
  • Hemorrhage: Reworked: An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a dagger is equipped), causing profuse bleeding that deals an additional 40% of the direct strike's damage over 24 sec. Awards 1 combo point.


Hemo change was needed to bring it back in-line with how it functions on live, nice to see combat getting some love, and FoK and Master Poisoner look nice.

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 10:59pm by Theophany
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#12 Mar 29 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.




Wasn't there some stink a while back about the issue with combat potency considering a slow OH for the combat spec? Because combat has always been slow MH, Fast OH, and having combat potency doing that just changes everything.

I do like the Killing spree change though. I love me some KS =P
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#13 Mar 29 2012 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.




Wasn't there some stink a while back about the issue with combat potency considering a slow OH for the combat spec? Because combat has always been slow MH, Fast OH, and having combat potency doing that just changes everything.

I do like the Killing spree change though. I love me some KS =P

I'm pretty sure that all this means is that it doesn't matter what speed your OH is for Combat Potency.
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#14 Mar 29 2012 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
The wording just makes it confusing, but I see what you mean. You know there's going to be people out there that's going to spaz out about it though.
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#15 Mar 29 2012 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
The wording just makes it confusing, but I see what you mean. You know there's going to be people out there that's going to spaz out about it though.

Like Mazra who spazzes out and ******* and whines about everything incessantly? Smiley: grin
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#16 Mar 29 2012 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Combat
  • Ambidexterity: Reworked: Increases the damage you deal with your off-hand weapon by 75%.
  • Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
  • Killing Spree: Now does 7 assaults, up from 5.




Wasn't there some stink a while back about the issue with combat potency considering a slow OH for the combat spec? Because combat has always been slow MH, Fast OH, and having combat potency doing that just changes everything.

I do like the Killing spree change though. I love me some KS =P

I'm pretty sure that all this means is that it doesn't matter what speed your OH is for Combat Potency.


Proportions are a hard concept for most of the player base.
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#17 Mar 30 2012 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to start learning how to add fractions next week, and boy am I psyched about it.
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#18 Mar 30 2012 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
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You're going to learn to add horde and alliance?
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#19 Mar 30 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I just got my rogue to 85. My issue is that I somehow suck. It may be that I just don't know what abilities to use when. It might be that I am used to dpsing as a caster.

I usually Mutilate to 4 combo points
Then I Shiv for the last combo point
I Rupture
Mutilate to 4
Shiv
Eviscerate

Then the mob is usually dead. Now, I have not run a dungeon yet. So I need to try out mobs with more health so that I can actually use Slice and Dice etc.

I feel like I get a lot more damage out of my Shaman than my Rogue, so it is probably a questions of getting used to it.

Edit: Yeah spelling

Edited, Mar 30th 2012 10:51am by Moonkissed
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#20 Mar 30 2012 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
First off, use Envenom over Eviscerate. With talents, it shouldn't be consuming Deadly Poison stacks, and Instant Poison on you MH/Deadly Poison on OH is what you need to be using.

Glyphs are, Prime: Mutilate, Rupture, Backstab, Major: Tricks, Feint, Sprint, Fan of Knives (pick three, but Tricks is mandatory).

Mutilate should be your main combo point generator. Get in the habit of attacking the boss from behind.

For finishers, use this priority:

SnD > Rupture > Envenom

This means that your first priority is getting SnD up. After that, get Rupture up. If both are up, use Envenom. Keep in mind that Envenom will refresh SnD, but only if SnD is already up.

Make sure for Rupture and Envenom, you're using 4 or 5 combo point finishers. If you're sitting at 4 combo points, since the max is 5, it would be a waste to use Mutilate again to generate just one combo point, and thus a loss in dps.

After 35%, replace Mutilate with Backstab.

Edited, Mar 30th 2012 11:22am by IDrownFish
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#21 Apr 02 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Fish! I will have to keep that in mind. That strat is mainly for Boss fights though right? Can can't see that working well on trash since they die so fast.
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#22 Apr 02 2012 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Moonkissed wrote:
Thanks Fish! I will have to keep that in mind. That strat is mainly for Boss fights though right? Can can't see that working well on trash since they die so fast.

As a rogue you're not brought along to handle trash; you're brought to do amazing single-target DPS on bosses with minimal attention paid to you by healers (we have the best mechanics for mitigating boss damage between Recup, Feint, Vanish, Evasion, Sprint, etc).

For trash I generally just FoKed everything. Smiley: grin
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#23 Apr 02 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Don't get back into the whole FoKing everything talk. Let's keep it PG in here!

Smiley: lol
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#24 Apr 02 2012 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Don't get back into the whole FoKing everything talk. Let's keep it PG in here!

Smiley: lol

You're just jealous that I can't FoK you.

Am I doing it right? Smiley: grin
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#25 Apr 03 2012 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Overlord Theophany wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Don't get back into the whole FoKing everything talk. Let's keep it PG in here!

Smiley: lol

You're just jealous that I can't FoK you.

Am I doing it right? Smiley: grin


Maybe you are... Maybe you're not... I'm a bit uncertain on what I should say... Smiley: eek
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#26 Apr 03 2012 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, that makes me feel much better. I am doing ok on boss fights, but terribly on Trash. I will have to stick to FoKing around with Trash.
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#27 Apr 06 2012 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Some interesting stuff just got posted on MMO-Champion:

Baseline
  • Crimson Tempest Finishing move consumes combo points on any nearby target to slash at the flesh of all enemies within 8 yards, dealing Physical damage and causing victims to bleed and suffer an additional 30% of the initial damage over 12 sec: 1 point : [445 + 2.5 + 2.8% of AP + 148 + 2.5 + 1.4% of AP] damage 2 points: [445 + 5 + 5.6% of AP + 148 + 5 + 4.2% of AP] damage 3 points: [445 + 7.5 + 16.5% of AP + 148 + 7.5 + 7% of AP] damage 4 points: [445 + 10 + 22% of AP + 148 + 10 + 22% of AP] damage 5 points: [445 + 12.5 + 27.5% of AP + 148 + 12.5 + 27.5% of AP] damage 5 yd range, 35 Energy, Instant
  • Fan of Knives now generates 1 combo point if it strikes your current combo target.
  • Shadow Blades *New* Draw upon the surrounding shadows to empower your weapons, causing your auto-attacks to deal pure Shadow damage and your combo-point-generating abilties to generate an additional combo point when used. Lasts 12 sec. 3 min cooldown, Instant
  • Throw *New* Hurl a dagger at an enemy target. 30 yd range, 0.5 sec cast



Glyphs
  • Inscription: Glyph of Backstab changed - When you Vanish, you leave behind a brief illusion that very closely resembles you.
  • Inscription: Glyph of Revealing Strike replaced with Glyph of Detection - Focus intently on trying to detect something.
  • Inscription: Glyph of Mutilate replaced - When you Pick Pocket a humanoid enemy, you also copy their appearance until cancelled.


FoK generating CPs is really nice, Crimson Tempest sounds great for trash and for AoE in general, Shadow Blades will get removed from the game because it'll be OP in PvP, and idk what Blizzard is doing with the glyph changes. Glyph of Detection sounds nice for PvP, and the new glyph of BS (?) sounds like a cool effect but hardly worth a prime slot.

Oh well, it's beta after all.

Interesting note: there's a JC land mount in MoP; it costs 500,000 gold. You buy 5x "Something Expensive" and make a little panther, and after you make four different ones, you can make the "Jeweled Onyx Panther" which is basically a NE cat with gems on it.

Each "Something Expensive" is 25,000 gold.

Anyone have some gold I can borrow? Smiley: grin
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#28 Apr 06 2012 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
I have 500 lol... Guess it's time to farm heroics and stuff for gold. Can usually make at least a couple hundred during one run
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#29 Apr 06 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I have 500 lol... Guess it's time to farm heroics and stuff for gold. Can usually make at least a couple hundred during one run

I transferred my 85 hunter to Fenris last night, so I've got my farmer on the server now. Smiley: grin
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#30 Apr 06 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
Awesome! I think my sub ended today so I'll need to reactivate when I get paid next week. Been too busy dealing with getting my car fixed and doctors right now Smiley: frown
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#31 Apr 07 2012 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
idk what Blizzard is doing with the glyph changes. Glyph of Detection sounds nice for PvP, and the new glyph of BS (?) sounds like a cool effect but hardly worth a prime slot.

Oh well, it's beta after all.


As far as I know Prime glyphs are going away in Pandas.
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#32 Apr 07 2012 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
idk what Blizzard is doing with the glyph changes. Glyph of Detection sounds nice for PvP, and the new glyph of BS (?) sounds like a cool effect but hardly worth a prime slot.

Oh well, it's beta after all.


As far as I know Prime glyphs are going away in Pandas.

Oh, so they're taking away the primary functionality and just making those effects baseline? That's awesome.

I always thought glyphs should just be fun stuff that does cosmetic and solo stuff for your class. We shouldn't have to theorycraft glyphs too.
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#33 Apr 07 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

Oh, so they're taking away the primary functionality and just making those effects baseline? That's awesome.

I always thought glyphs should just be fun stuff that does cosmetic and solo stuff for your class. We shouldn't have to theorycraft glyphs too.


The stated plan is glyphs that were required Primes become baseline. Most glyphs become fun or impact play style more than boost spells.

An example is Riptide with no CD but no initial heal either. Would be a wash in healing done but impacts play style or reflects the needs of a specific encounter.
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#34 Apr 07 2012 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Oh, so they're taking away the primary functionality and just making those effects baseline? That's awesome.

I always thought glyphs should just be fun stuff that does cosmetic and solo stuff for your class. We shouldn't have to theorycraft glyphs too.


The stated plan is glyphs that were required Primes become baseline. Most glyphs become fun or impact play style more than boost spells.

An example is Riptide with no CD but no initial heal either. Would be a wash in healing done but impacts play style or reflects the needs of a specific encounter.

Hence Hemo getting the bleed effect baseline, gotcha.

Oh, and reading on ArenaJunkies the other day, I heard that on beta ShS enables you to ShS to friendly targets.

Yeah. So amazing. I'm praying that that goes live.

EDIT:

Screenshot


Boom. PvP spec. ShSing to healers is going to be loltastic. Also, free Redirects at any time? That's what I've wanted since that ability was introduced. I'm going to focus-KS-blind-sap so many healers they will literally ragequit life.

Also I just remembered that Deadly Throw is a 6 second lockout at 5 combo points. That'll get nerfed really really hard.

Edited, Apr 7th 2012 4:20pm by Theophany
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#35 Apr 09 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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I can't tell you why, but Theo getting excited about this expansion is totally getting me psyched.

I also can't tell you why I am kissing his behind as much as I am. I guess I am just happy to have him back.
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#36 Apr 09 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Because for once, you have someone on for the rogue side of things that knows what he's talking about and is one of the only people that theorycrafts the rogue's skills for us.
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#37 Apr 09 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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It's probably because I'm intensely excited for the rogue changes coming, even though it seems like they've worked on rogues the least in terms of MoP content.

They've made a couple new abilities, changed how some stuff works (Envenom, poisons) and basically made it so that you basically choose your play style. Talents will be kind of up to the situation you're in, but it's all really exciting.

I actually foresee myself going Assassination once MoP goes live, as with ShS being a talent that any spec can have (and with Prep being unusable if you have ShS), they've removed basically everything that made Sub great and given it to Assassination. You'll basically have Assassination's burst and sustained damage with Sub's mobility, which should have people peeing in their pants.

I have changed my mind a bit on what level 90 talent I like the best, because Anticipation is pretty incredible. Being able to stack up to 10 combo points and use two finishers in a row is pretty awesome.

Oh, and in case anyone didn't know, Envenom is basically a nature-damage Eviscerate on beta at the moment. Doesn't require poisons, doesn't consume poisons, just does damage that goes through plate.

Popping two Envenoms in a row with Vendetta up is going to be kind of OP, so we'll see how that works out.
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#38 Apr 09 2012 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
I need to start taking a look at the changes and the combat side of things. With the way things are headed, I may for once enjoy something other than combat. I could never get into the Mut spec or anything. I loved my Blade Flurry/ Adren Rush combo too much. Guess I was just used to that playstyle since it's what I've been since 10.
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#39 Apr 09 2012 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I need to start taking a look at the changes and the combat side of things. With the way things are headed, I may for once enjoy something other than combat. I could never get into the Mut spec or anything. I loved my Blade Flurry/ Adren Rush combo too much. Guess I was just used to that playstyle since it's what I've been since 10.

Eh, you should be able to play really anything. You may not like it, but you should be able to. I hated playing combat in TBC when that was the go-to spec for raiding, but I did it (pre-dual spec of course, spending asstons of gold) because that's what you did.

Combat isn't going to change much, really. You'll still be SSing, you'll still be looking at OH procs for energy and extra damage via Main Gauche, the only difference is that you may be looking at slower OHs since Combat Potency is scaling with weapon speed now.
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#40 Apr 10 2012 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
I'm sort of wondering, how things work now "spec" wise since there really is no actually Mut spec or combat spec, etc. Since I haven't read up on it yet, I'm assuming it's to where abilities are now trainable no matter what (minus what's actually on the tree that you pick)?
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#41 Apr 10 2012 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I'm sort of wondering, how things work now "spec" wise since there really is no actually Mut spec or combat spec, etc. Since I haven't read up on it yet, I'm assuming it's to where abilities are now trainable no matter what (minus what's actually on the tree that you pick)?

Basically anything spec-defining is automatically given to you based on whatever spec you are, same as—for instance—Blade Flurry, Ambidexterity, Vitality, and your Mastery are when you choose Combat as a rogue.

The best way to see this is by going to wowhead's MoP talent calculator and selecting a spec down below and then filtering the abilities by spec; that'll tell you what exactly you learn in each individual spec that's unique (and also show you the new tooltips for some abilities, like Envenom).

From what I've seen, talents can be changed like glyphs, with Dust of Disappearance, on the fly. I believe that it only changes one talent rather than making you choose every talent again, but I could be wrong.

Your spec, to the best of my knowledge, cannot be changed on the fly except via dual-spec (which becomes infinitely more valuable now, since you can basically have 2/3 of the available specs and just change your talents when you PvP/PvE).

Anyway, it's worth the read. I learned a lot from it, but make sure you read everything carefully, because a lot is changing.
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#42 Apr 11 2012 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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  • Crimson Tempest - Damage amounts changed, see tooltip for detail.


Rogue - Assassination
  • Seal Fate - Now only works when you critically strike with a single-target attack.
  • Venomous Wounds - Now has a 75% chance to deal additional damage, up from 60%. Garrote will not trigger this effect if the enemy is also afflicted by your Rupture.


Rogue - Minor Glyphs
  • Glyph of Disguise - When you Pick Pocket a humanoid enemy, you also copy their appearance for 5 min. Your disguise will unravel upon entering combat.


Rogue - Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot - Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot by 50%. Replaced Glyph of Rupture.
  • Glyph of Stealth - Reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 4 sec. Replaced Glyph of Shadow Dance.
  • Glyph of Shiv - Reduces the cooldown of your Shiv ability by 2 sec. Replaced Glyph of Slice and Dice.


Some nice stuff there, love the Stealth glyph, same with CS. Guessing Seal Fate was changed because FoK was giving combo points and it'd give a combo point for every crit you got with FoK. Smiley: lol
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#43 Apr 11 2012 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
I'm a noob anywho. I had gone to the calculators early to mess around with them. Scrolled down far enough to just see the bottom of them that I didn't even see the spec selection Smiley: lol

I'm stupid.
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#44 Apr 20 2012 at 2:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I got into MoP beta at long last, so I'll be posting my experiences here to keep all of the rogues updated.

I've been messing around with some stuff, and at the very least the new poison system (plus the removal of throwing weapons) is a godsend. I'm really enjoying assassination, but I still have to test out sub to see how it performs as well. I'll be testing on Tol Barad daily mobs, since that's what I kill the most (and know what I normally hit for).

Not having addons kind of sucks, though. :(

EDIT: Messing around with the specs, I think Assassination is going to be by far my favorite. It has a really nice and easy rotation (mutilate to 5 cp, envenom, mut to 5, rupture, rinse, repeat; throw in crimson tempest if you're AoEing).

Sub is kind of disappointing me now that I can get mut's damage with shadowstep. Dispatch is a really cool mechanic, and I'm loving the new glyphs.

What I'm using right now:

Major: Garrote, Recup, Smoke Bomb
Minor: Safe Fall, Blurred Speed, Detection (SWIRLY BALL IS BACK!)

I may be switching out the Bomb glyph for Shiv, Shadow Walk, or Expose Armor depending.

I can't test combat right now unfortunately, as specs are stuck once you pick them.

Anyway, rogues should be really stoked about the changes coming. I'm loving the specs and play style choices in MoP.

EDIT2: Forgot the most important change: SHADOWSTEP CAN BE USED ON ANY TARGET.

YES, ANY.

SHADOWSTEP ALL THE THINGS.

Edited, Apr 20th 2012 2:37am by Theophany
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#45 Apr 20 2012 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
Was reading through you post waiting to see something about combat. That makes me sad that you can't test it out right now. I have assassination as my OS, so at least I can read up on your adventures with that. Can't wait to see about combat once you're able to test it out (if you can lol).

And YAY FOR SHADOWSTEP!
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#46 Apr 20 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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As far as damage goes, I think it's trended downward a slight bit; normally I'm ambushing for ~20k crits, and now it's critting a lot less.

Same with my other sub abilities; I've found that mutilate has been killing a lot faster than sub has (and it's also more fun).

I spent literally half an hour freaking people out in Stormwind by shadowstepping onto them; I was laughing the whole time. REALLY like the change.
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#47 Apr 21 2012 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Since I haven't played WoW in a while, testing out these changes is going to be fun for me I think! My main is a rogue by the way. Looking forward to trying the blind, whilst still in stealth (always thought that would be a good idea.)

Overall I'm quite pleased with the changes, apart from the fleet footed and kick? Also, not really seeing the point of shadow walk, can't really see when that would be of use to me.

I don't think I'm the ****, I'm just pretty good Smiley: wink, took a while to get there though

#48 Apr 21 2012 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Jimastion wrote:
Since I haven't played WoW in a while, testing out these changes is going to be fun for me I think! My main is a rogue by the way. Looking forward to trying the blind, whilst still in stealth (always thought that would be a good idea.)

Overall I'm quite pleased with the changes, apart from the fleet footed and kick? Also, not really seeing the point of shadow walk, can't really see when that would be of use to me.

I don't think I'm the ****, I'm just pretty good Smiley: wink, took a while to get there though

Shadow Walk is for stealth vs stealth comps in arena, obviously. Rogues should never get opened on by other classes, hence Shadow Walk.

Also, helps in dungeons (there are places I'd vanish while in stealth to get a sap at the back of a trash pack, since sub wasn't a decent PvE build at the time).

Fleet Footed and Kick changes are to bring them more in line with what other classes get. 20% healing buff on live is pretty OP when you take all of the Recup talents.
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#49 Apr 27 2012 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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OH DEAR GOD.

I thought we were gonna get better looking gear when MoP came out?!

Seriously, WORST SET EVER.

Oh, and Mind-numbing poison slows casting speed by 50% on NPCs and 25% on players, now. Smiley: rolleyes
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#50 May 01 2012 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
Why can't we get a neat looking hood that doesn't make us look like human-geists or... I don't know... Something rogue-like?
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#51 May 01 2012 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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More Sub nerfs; they're either idiots, or trying to nerf Sub into the ground:

    Subtlety
  • Honor Among Thieves now can only occur when you're in combat.
  • Sanguinary Vein reworked slightly - You deal 25% additional damage to targets afflicted by your Rupture or Garrote.
  • Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Cheap Shot now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 5 sec instead of reducing its energy cost.


It's gotten kind of frustrating, playing Sub on the beta. Basically everything that made Sub really unique (Prep, ShS, Cheat Death) is a talent now. If I don't have to spec Sub to get Sub's best abilities, why would anyone spec Sub?

Also, when you nerf Sub's burst output, the only thing it's good for (burst in Shadow Dance with 100% Ambush crits) is completely removed. That combined with the nerfs to Recup's (talented) healing makes me really grumpy when I PvP on beta.

At this point I might as well plan on making my hunter my main in MoP for PvP. Hunters, at least, aren't getting completely ****** in the *** for their only PvP build.
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