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#1 Oct 25 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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So is it just me, or do the new talents suggest that Druids will be spending a LOT more times in different forms.

Seems like Balance druids will no longer only be in Moonkin for. I am not sure of this, but the talent choices seem to imply that there will be a LOT more shifting back and forth.

...maybe we are already supposed to do that and I just suck.
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#2 Oct 25 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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If you're referring to the final tier of talents (where you get various bonuses or benefits if you change in/out of forms) then I think it's aimed at trying to make us more hybrid-ish, or better in PvP (where one might actually shift out and cast spells, unlike in PvE).

Tier 6 sucks for PvE purposes, though. No raid utility at all, unless you count popping a cooldown and praying to the dear spirits (in the bottle) that you'll not get crit for a million damage.
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#3 Oct 25 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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It's more a matter of opening up the option for people to do so. Taking that middle T6 talent that stacks a buff to AP/SP won't make your best gearing/spec some sort of hybrid, but it will make your abilities upon shifting that much better. Currently if I'm in a raid that needs panic heals (Staghelm scorpion after a few shifts, some other fights if a healer dies right at the end) Nurturing Instinct makes my Tranquility good enough despite kittyspec but I don't have the throughput to do much more than that, while the Agi->Int+mana regen would give me 45 seconds of being a pinch healer. Not great, but not useless.

You're going to get all your Moonkin abilities without spending talent points. Some are being shifted to be a choice for all specs (Typhoon) but you're not losing everything else. It just goes into automatic ability gains instead of "you'd be stupid not to get this" points in the current system. They want to remove the "you have choice, you can choose to suck" talent tree and make the choices people make between interesting abilities that change utility more than pure damage. Some of the currently Alpha class talents are better than others, druid is one of the best in this respect.
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#4 Oct 25 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Moonkissed wrote:
So is it just me, or do the new talents suggest that Druids will be spending a LOT more times in different forms.


They've said in the past they want us doing more shifting, and there's some of it in PvP currently. I'm not sure I see this changing a whole lot going forward, but I've been surprised before. Smiley: smile
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#5 Oct 25 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Moonkissed wrote:
So is it just me, or do the new talents suggest that Druids will be spending a LOT more times in different forms.


They've said in the past they want us doing more shifting, and there's some of it in PvP currently. I'm not sure I see this changing a whole lot going forward, but I've been surprised before. Smiley: smile

I like the idea of being able to shift to caster to spot heal, root an add, go bear and pull something off the healer, and then go back to kitty to DPS. I'm just not sure there's a place for that kind of hybrid in PvE groups. Don't get me wrong, I put Thick Hide and NI in every spec that has room for it, and I've saved a lot of groups by being a shape-shifting, ass-kicking druid. Situations like that don't seem to come up often enough to be our pinnacle talent.
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#6 Oct 25 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it creepy that someproteinguy uses smiley faces so much that I actually picture that face when I picture what he looks like?
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#7 Oct 25 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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If they want more shifting to happen, then they'll really need to extensively rework the class. Creating a buff on shift that makes it valuable to a rotation is just a makeshift and EXTREMELY uninteresting solution, imo.

On the other hand, if they were to create two new Balance forms who were stronger in different circumstances, it could be really interesting. Let's say a Druid can be a Moonkin, a Wisp, or... some other balance-y thing.

Moonkin could be the form for stationary combat, wisp could be a burst form, and the third could be a mobile form. Make the wisp a cooldown, and change how it works based on which form you shift into it from (both to make it more dynamic, and to keep you from launching such strong attacks while moving).

Etc.

I just don't see any other type of shifting being interesting. Not unless they added cons to Boomkin that would lead to situations where'd you want to not be in it (for the sake of your dps).

But this is way more work than they're willing to do, I'm sure.
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#8 Oct 25 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Moonkissed wrote:
Is it creepy that someproteinguy uses smiley faces so much that I actually picture that face when I picture what he looks like?


Smiley: eek

Smiley: lol

Smiley: rolleyes
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#9 Oct 25 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: hk
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#10 Oct 26 2011 at 5:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Moonkin could be the form for stationary combat, wisp could be a burst form, and the third could be a mobile form. Make the wisp a cooldown, and change how it works based on which form you shift into it from (both to make it more dynamic, and to keep you from launching such strong attacks while moving).


I am not being a ******* wisp! I've hated wisps ever since getting that stupid spirit of summer pet and finding out it was a pink wisp rather than the cool fire elemental that you feed blossoms to. Every time I see one in game I want to kill it (shame they never seem to be attackable), I even hate myself when I die and have to fly back to my corpse as a stupid ghost wisp!

Apart from that, I really like the idea. Balance druids could really use a damage increasing cooldown, treants are nice enough, but I would never think about saving them for a burst phase just about taking them out as often as possible during a fight when they will be able to hit the target without being at risk of dying. Maybe they could even add in a gain to the caster when using them (like Guardian of Ancient Kings for Paladins to buff stats or the Enh Shaman spirits that heal the player when they do damage), if you got a spell power or haste boost you when they attacked they would be much better for phases where you need to be hitting hard and it would also provide better scaling for them (as the better gear you have the more of a boost their buff would provide).

Having forms for different types of damage would be interesting. I know eclipse is sort of meant to be doing this, but it doesn't seem to be very user friendly. I can do the basics of the rotation moving from one eclipse to the other and my dps is ok, but to make the most of it (as I understand) you need to be able to time which eclipse you are in for different phases of the fight depending on the type of damage needed. As someone who doesn't get a lot of practice dpsing (that is my main spec, but my guild needs me healing for heroic progress) I don't really get a chance to find out when I need to time certain eclipses and how to pace myself to make that happen at the right point in the fight. If it was based more on a form (boosting certain abilities over others rather than blocking certain spells) or even similar to Chakra for holy priests I think it would make it a lot more accessible for people coming in to the spec. I'm not saying there shouldn't be room for improvement/reward for really knowing the class, it just feels to me like the learning curve is too high for people who don't play as often with the spec (or maybe it is just me that sucks :P).

I just find it a bit frustrating that I have a hunter with much less raid (dpsing) experience and worse gear that easily outperforms my druid and I don't want to get to the point where I feel like I'm burdening my guild if they take me as dps instead of a healer. I don't think balance druids are broken, just that their mechanics are not so easy to get to grips with compared to other classes.
#11 Oct 26 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tynuv, don't speak ill of the wisps.

Archimonde agrees with me.
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#12 Oct 26 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Idiggory I feel like they need to do that anyway. I want some cool effect for shifting between forms. It would be neat if you had several forms for Balance like you mentioned. I should not get too excited.
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In a world where studies show marriages now run into trouble after three years, it is probably to be expected that games lose their enchantment at least as quickly.
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