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#1 Aug 21 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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An older post but felt I needed to ask this again :)

OK, so we’ve all experienced it, you pick up the pug and head off to that random, the run’s going ok and then for whatever reason someone dies, maybe it’s your fault (I mean it happens, nobody’s perfect) or most likely it’s not, or it’s just bad luck, whatever.. And then it starts… OMFG,WTF,NOHEALZ,******,NOOB etc etc you know the situation, the abuse, we’ve all been there .. and yes stronger sanctions from Blizz are needed for it but that’s a different thread.

So the real question is what’s the best way to respond?

1) Ignore it – stoically plough on through having to listen to it
2) Exit
3) Try and reason with the unreasonable
4) Try and patiently explain what actually did go wrong even to those who are usually not listening
5) Fight fire with fire … (some of my fav’s listed below, lifted from the web))

I'm Rez spec'd
I can heal your health bar, but I can't heal stupid and believe me you really are
That was half the dungeon. I do dungeons, not jailbreaks
I'll heal better if you tank/dps better
I am trying to top the Rez meter..
I’m after the 1000000 rez’s achievement
Heal? I thought I was just here for the Fort buff
It's more mana efficient to resurrect than to heal
I’m a priest, I prayed for you! The Gods didn't answer

The 3 Basic Rules Of Grouping:
If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault
If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault
If DPS dies, it's their own fault – control your aggro and use your CC

/p Now resurrecting %t.
/p Side effects may include headache, nausea, dizziness, loss of appetite, vomiting, insomnia, or **** retention. If you are pregnant or have a pace maker, please read additional warning labels before clicking 'accept'. Resurrection is not for everyone; please consult your healer before dying.

Sorry, all of our healbot operators are busy right now but please leave your request after the tone …
For renew please type OMFGHEALMENOOB
For greater heal yell HEALZUF*CKINGRETARD
For circle of healing type FFSWTFUDOING
Or please leave a message and we’ll get back to you

Sorry I was distracted by the telly
I've lost that lovin' healing... oooohhh… . that lovin’ healing …
I was busy rolling my face across my keyboard …
It was the tank or you, I decided on a cheaper repair bill

I’m so tempted to go with a few of these on macros, I know it’s wrong, right, right … must…. resist….

:o)

So, what do you think is the right thing to do… and what do you actually do?
#2 Aug 21 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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I regularly remind my group that I can't heal stupid and standing in fire/goo/spikes/circle of doom will result in death. Doesn't matter if I can heal through the damage, if they stand in it, they die.

Heavy supporter of behaviorism <3
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#3 Aug 21 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
If "it happens, nobody is perfect", then I'd say sorry about that.

If people were standing in fire, I'd ask them not to.

If they are simply being unreasonable, I may suggest they find another healer more to their liking and leave.
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#4 Aug 21 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So, what do you think is the right thing to do… and what do you actually do?


Having been healing as a Holy Priest for quite sometime, I've learned to never **** off the healer! I've been through all the emotions starting as a fresh healer with "I gotta save the World, including stupid", all the way to now and "eh, someone died, cry me a river!". I will always do my best, and I am pretty good at it, but I can't heal stupid! I gave up trying a long time ago. If everyone is taking massive damage to the point you have to sacrifice one or two, something is wrong and it's not the healer. Though they will sometimes try to make it seem that way.

Anyway, I've heard it all and you gotta get thick skin as a healer cos we are almost always the fall guys. Personally, I just ignore it and continue healing....for the first part of the answer.

But:

If someone keeps going and going on about it - or getting insulting - I don't care if they are the tank or a DPS doing 25k DPS, I won't waste my mana on them, including in raids. If they can heal better, than by all means I want them too, if they can heal stupid they are welcome to try. I will more than likely move on and take it as a loss of time.
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#5 Aug 22 2011 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
I dealt with this a little bit even just last night. My first line of defense against blame is to explain to the group why someone died, and what they can do to avoid it in the future. If there are still issues and I continue to be blamed, I will either vote to kick the person in question, or leave the group myself.

I heal because I enjoy it, and because I get faster queue times. I don't heal to be abused by people who don't know what the **** they're doing.
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#6 Aug 22 2011 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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It's funny, because when I healed on my Druid back in the day (a month ago?), people would start with the flames over anything, it didn't even have to be a death. I had people ***** at me because I wasn't keeping them topped off the entire time. I even had a tank call me a "noob healz" because he had to use a cooldown on a trash pack (onoz!).

On my Priest, though, people seem to be much more patient, and I've even had people apologize for dying. Smiley: lol
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#7 Aug 22 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
That is strange. Maybe it has something to do with resto druids having a reputation as being an easy healing class, where as priests are a lot more challenging? Either that, or it's just a coincidence.
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Grakine, 32 Hunter
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#8 Aug 22 2011 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
That is strange. Maybe it has something to do with resto druids having a reputation as being an easy healing class, where as priests are a lot more challenging? Either that, or it's just a coincidence.



I dealt with the same thing. I've seen o-board posts about most repected class/race combo's and everytime Priests always get the majority of replies for some reason. Class combo was always Troll Priests for Horde and I think Dwarf Priests for Alliance as most respected.

I noticed I'd get more flames on my Shaman when healing then on Priest; and never anyone saying sorry for dying on my Sham, but same with Pigtails, I'd get it on my Priest many times.

Maybe it's the whole Priest thing, and people automatically think of Priests in game as similar to Priests in real life or something, needing automatic respect for the class/roll they have chosen to pursue? Barring Catholic priest jokes of course in real life! :P

Edited, Aug 22nd 2011 6:47am by Seculartwo
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#9 Aug 22 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
That is strange. Maybe it has something to do with resto druids having a reputation as being an easy healing class, where as priests are a lot more challenging? Either that, or it's just a coincidence.


Maybe it's because I'm not raiding, but I don't understand the stigma on Priests as a healing class. I had to scrape my way through regulars and heroics on my Druid back in the day (of Cataclysm launch) and it was a freakin' nightmare to just keep the tank alive. My Priest (83) can heal most available dungeons by throwing out a Prayer of Mending and spamming Smite.

I don't know, maybe heroics are different, but right now my Priest seems so overpowered it's hilarious. Flash Heal crits for 30k and adds a 14k shield on top of it. My Druid's Regrowth crits for maybe 24k and heals for another 2.5k over time.

Smiley: dubious

Should probably mention that there are 2k spell power and two levels between my Druid and Priest. With my Druid being level 85.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2011 7:47pm by Mazra
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#10 Aug 22 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
Maybe you're doing something wrong then? My druid is less geared than my priest, and I have an easier time healing with the druid. Both in heroics and in raids. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong with my priest lol.

The main issue priests have, particularly holy priests, is mana. Holy priests are incredibly reliant on spirit for their mana regen, and they go OOM pretty easily. Not sure about shamans or paladins, but I know that disc priests and resto druids use a good chunk of their intellect for mana regen. Other than that, disc priests have a lot more spells to deal with. In fact, I don't think I've ever even used a third of them because I just don't know when or how!
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Digits, 86 Shaman
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Willowmei, 85 Druid
Necralita, 85 DK
Shrika, 72 Warlock
Jaquelle, 54 Paladin
Grakine, 32 Hunter
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#11 Aug 22 2011 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Maybe you're doing something wrong then? My druid is less geared than my priest, and I have an easier time healing with the druid. Both in heroics and in raids. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong with my priest lol.

The main issue priests have, particularly holy priests, is mana. Holy priests are incredibly reliant on spirit for their mana regen, and they go OOM pretty easily. Not sure about shamans or paladins, but I know that disc priests and resto druids use a good chunk of their intellect for mana regen. Other than that, disc priests have a lot more spells to deal with. In fact, I don't think I've ever even used a third of them because I just don't know when or how!



Nothing 2600 spirit and 100k+ mana doesn't cure for Holy Priests! ;)

I was originally told to only go 2k spirit, but that just wasn't enough when the stuff hit the fan; which is pretty often it seems. I turned it into a 2500 spirit goal and once I hit that, Holy Priest healing was cake IMO. I completely agree with Mazra: I feel Holy Priests are OP healing (when you have enough spirit for your needs), but on Shaman it's hard for me, to the point I really don't heal much anymore on it.
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#12 Aug 23 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
I don't know, maybe heroics are different, but right now my Priest seems so overpowered it's hilarious. Flash Heal crits for 30k and adds a 14k shield on top of it. My Druid's Regrowth crits for maybe 24k and heals for another 2.5k over time.


Well, although those spells are quite similar in the way they're intended to be used, you can't just directly compare them. A druid can cast Regrowth while a whole bunch of HoTs keeps ticking on other people. Every tic needs figured in, as well as things like Living Seed and the ability to use Swiftmend for a good chunk of instant healing.

Overall it really comes out to be the same for all healers, with advantages being truly situational. Also, healing in Cata changed enough to affect personal preferences. Like I just don't "click" with my priest and shammy this time around, while I'm totally in love with paladin healing. Druids didn't really change too much through the last 2 xpacks.
#13 Aug 23 2011 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Kanngarnix wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I don't know, maybe heroics are different, but right now my Priest seems so overpowered it's hilarious. Flash Heal crits for 30k and adds a 14k shield on top of it. My Druid's Regrowth crits for maybe 24k and heals for another 2.5k over time.


Well, although those spells are quite similar in the way they're intended to be used, you can't just directly compare them. A druid can cast Regrowth while a whole bunch of HoTs keeps ticking on other people. Every tic needs figured in, as well as things like Living Seed and the ability to use Swiftmend for a good chunk of instant healing.


Druids don't have a "whole bunch" of HoT spells they can throw around anymore. They have Rejuvenation, which is similar to Renew, except it costs more mana. They have Wild Growth, which is similar to Prayer of Healing, except it costs more mana. Lifebloom is kept up on the tank at all times and not something you throw around unless you pop Tree of Life first.

My point, however, was that Druids' go-to fast heal, the heal supposedly cast if lots of healing is needed, is weaker than any of the other equivalents out there. It also costs more mana than Flash Heal.

As for Swiftmend and Efflorescence, I compare those to Power Word: Shield and Prayer of Mending. I also compare Living Seed to Divine Aegis. I know you said that you can't compare the spells directly, but Blizzard homogenized the healing classes. They even said so themselves in their pre-Cata launch updates. They wanted all healers to be able to perform all roles equally. They just forgot about 5-mans for the first six months of the expansion.
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#14 Aug 24 2011 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, Maz, but performing equally is not the same thing as playing the same way. It just means that at the end of a run you have done roughly the same amount of healing with all classes, regardless of how big or small your numbers were with individual spells.

You also have mechanics in place that make it even more difficult to compare spells. How would you factor in that Regrowth for example also refreshes your Lifebloom stack - which can be anywhere between 1 and 3? I can't go ahead and make a direct comparison between a priest's Heal and my pally's Holy Light just because cast times and the directly healed amount are roughly the same. Flash of Light and Flash Heal? No way! I mean what about the transfer to my Beacon target or the heal I'm getting myself?

That said, I am NOT restricting myself to Lifeblooms on the tank only. Why would I? The actual rolling on multiple people might be gone, but there is just no reason not to use it on other people if you just know that they'll be taking a lot of damage because they're not moving like they're supposed to, or maybe simply because they're the only melee class other than the tank and thus going to eat the cleaves or whirlwinds or whatever some mobs do.

#15 Aug 24 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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Kanngarnix wrote:
You also have mechanics in place that make it even more difficult to compare spells. How would you factor in that Regrowth for example also refreshes your Lifebloom stack - which can be anywhere between 1 and 3?


There's a difference in the number of targets, but you can refresh Renew with any direct target heal while in Serenity Chakra (The direct healing one) as a holy priest.

Quote:
I can't go ahead and make a direct comparison between a priest's Heal and my pally's Holy Light just because cast times and the directly healed amount are roughly the same.


What you just said kind of makes them the exact same spell.

Quote:
Flash of Light and Flash Heal? No way! I mean what about the transfer to my Beacon target or the heal I'm getting myself?


There are differences, yes. That's Blizzard's attempt at keeping things different. However, Blizzard did say that they homogenized the healing classes. Each healer has the trinity: the weak cheap heal, the fast inefficient heal, and the slow efficient big heal. You can see these in all healing classes. There are always going to be differences, but they're a **** of a lot more similar now than ever before.

And Wild Growth reminds me a lot more of Circle of Healing than anything. Their glyphs are even the same.

Edited, Aug 24th 2011 10:02am by IDrownFish
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#16 Aug 24 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Wild Growth and Circle of Healing are obvious mirror spells, but since I was comparing my Disc Priest with Resto Druids, I had to go with something else. Smiley: tongue
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#17 Aug 24 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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IDrownFish wrote:
There are differences, yes. That's Blizzard's attempt at keeping things different. However, Blizzard did say that they homogenized the healing classes. Each healer has the trinity: the weak cheap heal, the fast inefficient heal, and the slow efficient big heal. You can see these in all healing classes. There are always going to be differences, but they're a **** of a lot more similar now than ever before.


That's kinda obvious. Just saying that you need to look at the overall healing rather than just picking single spells.

Regrowth doesn't have to heal for as much as Flash Heal or Flash of Light when it's assumed that you have another HoT ticking anyway or could add it within a GCD if needed. Same deal with the randomness of Shaman heals. You can't exactly predict when Earth Shield or Earthliving will proc, yet you know that they actually WILL be up and add to your total healing. (Ignoring the 100% chance for Earthliving when you picked up Blessing of the Eternals and your target's health is below 35%).

It's not like anybody would compare a Frost Bolt to an Arcane Blast and evaluate performance just on that single spell - just because they're kinda the same. Mortal Strike and Obliterate? Rip and Rupture?


#18 Aug 24 2011 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Regrowth is poorly designed.

Having an emergency heal with a portion of its healing done through a HoT is just a bad idea. If I wanted the HoT I'd cast a HoT. I'm using RG because I need healing now, not over the next 8 seconds. Add in that 20%-ish chance of not critting and you're left with something weak and unreliable. Oh, and you lack a good tank-saver spell as a bonus.

Smiley: rolleyes

Not that Druids don't have their strengths; but it's just so much easier on me if I fall behind when I'm healing on my priest or pally.
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#19 Aug 24 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Regrowth is poorly designed.

Having an emergency heal with a portion of its healing done through a HoT is just a bad idea. If I wanted the HoT I'd cast a HoT. I'm using RG because I need healing now, not over the next 8 seconds. Add in that 20%-ish chance of not critting and you're left with something weak and unreliable. Oh, and you lack a good tank-saver spell as a bonus.


Yeah I guess that's where druids apparently were just not quite compatible with the homogenization of healers. Nourish should have been the spell to use for the quick heal, just like it used to be.

WHY they chose to change that after truly trying to shove Nourish down our throats in Wrath is beyond my comprehension.
#20 Aug 24 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kanngarnix wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Regrowth is poorly designed.

Having an emergency heal with a portion of its healing done through a HoT is just a bad idea. If I wanted the HoT I'd cast a HoT. I'm using RG because I need healing now, not over the next 8 seconds. Add in that 20%-ish chance of not critting and you're left with something weak and unreliable. Oh, and you lack a good tank-saver spell as a bonus.


Yeah I guess that's where druids apparently were just not quite compatible with the homogenization of healers. Nourish should have been the spell to use for the quick heal, just like it used to be.

WHY they chose to change that after truly trying to shove Nourish down our throats in Wrath is beyond my comprehension.


As frustrating as it was having to have a HoT on a target to get a decent 'flash-heal' it did fit the class well, and at least it was reliable. You could be sure that tank would get some pretty decent HPS when needed, the poor DPS on the other hand... well they shouldn't have been standing in goo anyway.

Smiley: lol

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#21 Aug 26 2011 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I got that kind of abuse from a tank recently, when it was blatantly his fault that he died for standing where he shouldn't and it subsequently caused a wipe. Irl my jaw dropped, I'd not experienced abuse in a long time (I'm quick to apologise for mistakes that are mine). Anyhow I didn't need to say a word, the dps had noticed, they stood up for me and kicked the tank from the group.

Imo explain if you can, as the offenders will never learn. PuGs are all too often unforgiving and impatient.

It tends to be bad players that exit, and good players that kick the bad players.

Edited, Aug 26th 2011 7:23am by Callu
#22 Aug 26 2011 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Healers get a lot of **** from tanks when they (the tanks) fail. Noticed it in Grim Batol when the tank stormed ahead and pulled a group of trash mobs without noticing the Wyrmcaller who proceeded to turn him into crap as Death Knights, in my experience, are horrible AOE tanks (from a healing point of view - they simply lack the mitigation).

He started flaming the healer for not healing him through that crap, so I told him to stop being a ****** and then kicked him. I've gotten into trouble before for flaming tanks, but I just don't agree with the sheeple mentality that "tanks are hard to find so they need to be treated like special snowflakes" that most other players seem to possess. ****** behavior rewards a vote kick from me, always, regardless of your role.

Besides, like I've tried to point so many times in groups, finding a new tank once the group has already been created is much faster as you get bumped to the front of the queue. It takes maybe two minutes to get a new tank, which is faster than running back to your corpse.
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