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Unholy Presence and arthritisFollow

#1 May 25 2011 at 12:58 AM Rating: Good
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Is it just me, or does the Unholy Presence style as DW/2h Frost not suit your left/right hand either? I know it's only a 33% decrease in the global cooldown, but I've done one dungeon today and my left forearm feels sore and my left fingers are sort of throbbing.

I also feel like I have to spam the buttons non-stop, to not miss out on the reduced cooldown because of latency. With Frost Presence, I'd time my keypresses so that I didn't mash them more than needed, but I can't really do that in Unholy Presence (I find that the animation for the global cooldown sometimes bugs out and doesn't display the reduction).

Now, EJ mentions that Unholy Presence is a 500 dps increase over a Mastery heavy Frost Presence build in tier 11 gear. That's quite a bit, obviously, but I'm wondering if a Frost Presence build wouldn't amount to higher DPS if you're prone to "forgetting" or missing attacks since you'd not be utilizing the GCD reduction.

Personally, I've found that I do about the same amount of damage in Unholy Presence as in Frost Presence, but my Death Knight is only level 83 right now. Not having arthritis at the age of 25 might be worth losing 500 DPS over, though. Smiley: um

Frost Knights, any thoughts on the switch to Unholy Presence? What do you roll with?
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#2 May 25 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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2H Frost in unholy presence. I don't have arthritis though.

Once you get used to the style it slows down a bit.
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#5 May 27 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Maz, you should know better than to use BiS-based EJ threads and apply them to a leveling toon. Until you're raiding, it just doesn't much matter. =P

Right now I'm dual-wielding in Unholy Presence unless I need to AoE a group for more than 2 Howling Blasts (or more than roughly 5 sec.) where I flip to Frost Presence. Same tactic I use for 2-handers at the moment. This could possibly change in the next patch from what I'm seeing on the PTR. But that's pure speculation right now.

Personally, I like the faster-fire of Unholy Presence. Frost Presence just feels more lumbering to me. But as part of a raid team I'll do whichever is a better contribution to rDPS =)
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#6 May 28 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Well, true.

Unholy Presence has been my main turn-off with 2h Frost. I love Frost, but I hate Unholy Presence. I prefer slow and hard-hitting rather than fast and pewpew-ish. Plus, looking like a Fury Warrior on crack doesn't really fit my mental image of a Death Knight.
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#7 Jun 02 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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It was annoying when I first switched to Unholy presence. I felt like I wasn't hitting the buttons fast enough to keep up with the cooldowns, and when I did button mash, I wasn't able to respond to procs fast enough, and it felt like I was wasting DPS.

Now I'm used to it a little more. When I switch back to Frost presence now it feels really slow. I think you get used to it eventually.

I never had pain in my hands, wrists, or forearms though.

#8 Jun 17 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, don't you main a kitty Maz? You should be used to a 1-second GCD.

Though I'll agree that switching to a 1-second GCD from a class that uses 1.5 can be irritating.
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#9 Jun 17 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kitties don't hit something every GCD like DW Frost does, though. We can spam a couple abilities after using Tiger's Fury or Berserk, or getting an Omen of Clarity proc, but we're generally waiting on Energy. With my Frost DK, I almost always have either runes or RP to use, or I can hit HoW to get some RP.
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#10 Jun 19 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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That's true. Not so for hunters and rogues though.
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#11 Jun 20 2011 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Rogues and hunters also 'energy' pool far more than Unholy presence DKs.
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#12 Jun 20 2011 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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That's true.
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#13 Jun 20 2011 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Hunters fill their rotations with Steady or Cobra Shot, both of which have a cast time. I find that I'm pushing far less buttons per minute on my Kitty and Hunter compared to my Death Knight.
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#14 Jun 20 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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You can try Unholy--it's generally slower than 2-handed Frost (same GCD, but you won't necessarily always push a button, since your rune rotations aren't optimized, there's no random rune refreshes, and you hold off on DCs until your ghoul turns back).

Or, y'know, there's DW Frost. But that doesn't sound appealing. :P
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#15 Jun 21 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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DW Frost is what I'm rolling with now, but EJ says Unholy Presence is better than Frost Presence there as well.

I guess it's a matter of min/max, but I hate being inferior on purpose.
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#16 Jun 21 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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Wait, really? Does that mean DW Frost is now GCD capped without Unholy?
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#17 Jun 22 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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It means, MOAR HASTE IS MOAR BETTER.

Obviously.
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#18 Jun 22 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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I'm just surprised Haste levels are high enough for GCD capping to already be an issue for DW...

Then again, with how poorly Blizz approached class design this time around, it's not actually that surprising. And that's depressing...
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#19 Jun 22 2011 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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Both DK DPS specs love haste, DW Frost had an affair with mastery for a while but better gear ended it.
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#20 Jun 22 2011 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think DW Frost is GCD capped in either presence, but I haven't bothered to read through the entire thread at EJ. For what I'm doing (DPSing heroics), a general idea on stat and ability priority is all I wanted.
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#21 Jun 22 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Then I'm confused.

Unholy Presence, as Frost, gives:

10% Attack Speed
10% Rune Regeneration
GCD -.5
Movement Speed
4% RP Generation

2Hnd Frost loved it because they were GCD capped in Frost Presence, and a 15% damage boost couldn't compare to more attacks. Especially since the RP generation buff was useless in that scenario.

I mean, it essentially meant that they were getting 33% Haste. But that's only the case if you can actually USE all those extra GCDs.

But DW now loves Unholy, despite not being GCD capped?

10% Attack Speed means that they are getting more auto-attacks in, okay. It also means more random runes. And Rune Regeneration, in theory, means 10% more Obliterates. Now we have 4% more Frost Strikes.

It just seems weird to me that this is a powerful enough buff to compete with the 15% damage from Frost Presence, if they aren't GCD capped as it stands.
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#23 Jun 23 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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For the record: Raiding Frost DKs don't stress GCD capping as much as being rune-locked (being out of runes and runic power at any point). Unholy presence (for Frost) helps reduce rune refresh rates so you have fewer rune-locked moments and more Oblits. More Oblits give you more Frost Strikes. More Frost Stikes give you more Runic Empowerment procs. Huzzah!

Just be sure that both runes in a pair are cooling down when you Frost Strike kids! =P
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#24 Jun 25 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
You just need to practice your "wrist exercises" more...

I like the unholy rune speed, gives me more chances to death strike when I stand in stupid places.
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#25 Jun 25 2011 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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Too bad DS is now practically useless in anything but Blood Presence, as a tank.
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#26 Jun 27 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Death Strike is still a valuable tool for DPS DKs in a raid environment. Far from useless on fights that are heavy on healing (Nef, etc).
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