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Dispensing advice - should I?Follow

#1 May 24 2011 at 2:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've run into a few bad players while doing the new troll instances and a couple of the druids have been so bad that I've decided to have a look at recount to see if I could work out what was going wrong.

The first one both him and the tank seemed a bit undergeared (druid had 88k mana, tank had 160k hp), but I worry I've been spoiled with raid geared players and am being elitist. We managed the Eagle boss (with a couple of wipes) but couldn't seem to get passed the bear trash. The tank would just drop like a lead balloon. I had a little look at recount and the druid had cast 4 healing touches in the entire time I'd been there, I know it's slow and all but it does heal for a substantial amount. That healer dropped and we got a new one in and cleared the place (so I'm guessing it wasn't just a case of the tank being undergeared).

Second one was in ZG, seem to have a little problem of people standing in the wrong place and we had a hunter pulling 8k dps (luckily he left) but the healing did seem thin on the ground and the healer went oom mid-way through every boss fight (me and the other dps were at 15k dps each and they didn't feel to be going much slower than usual). We cleared the place eventually (our tank left 3 times and got randomed back in each time) but the healer ended up oom, usually dead and with people sitting low on health a lot of the time. This one had 115k mana, but some pvp gear so maybe his regen was low. Looked at recouont at the end of the instance and again had very low HT use and loads of regrowth (I didn't see him pop ToL at any point), he also had Lifebloom as one of his lowest healing spells, not sure where mine usually sits on overall healing done though.

Now my instinct is to suggest that maybe they want to use HT a bit more and save regrowth for when someone needs fast healing but a) I don't want to be one of those players who goes "Oh my main is x class and you should play like this" and b) I don't heal very much on my druid and have only healed one ZA with a very good pug group, I don't want to be hypocritical dishing out advice when I don't heal much myself or be giving out the wrong information.

So fellow druids, is regrowth spamming some special tactic that I've missed out on but can work for some people and would you offer helpful hints if you thought someone was playing wrong or just hope they have better luck in the future?
#2 May 24 2011 at 3:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I tank the troll instances with less than or around 160k HP. No, stam trinkets and avoidance gemming/enchanting will do that though.

But ya, I give advice sometimes. By advice I mean a 50-50 shot between giving advice and drunkenly berating people for being bad.


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#3 May 24 2011 at 3:47 AM Rating: Good
Regrowth spamming is something we did in Wrath. It's not going to keep people up without totally draining the druid's mana. I haven't done a lot of healing, but I've run a few heroics pretty successfully, and what I did was try and keep Lifebloom up on the tank at all times, and keep him topped off in between the blooms with Rejuv. That seemed to work pretty well.

You probably want to wait and hear Protein's advice though, since he's the resident resto druid.

If I see someone doing something stupid, I'm going to point it out to them, especially if it's affecting me in a negative way. I had a tank in BRC today who admitted at the start of the dungeon that he hadn't done it on heroic before. So instead of asking us what was different everytime, he just charged in. That was fine until we got to Beauty... We wiped, I yelled at him for charging in without a word, etc. Our group make up didn't particularly help either. There was me and a holy priest, the tank was a pally and the other two dps were a dk and warrior. So I asked the DK to do the ice chains on one of the puppies, and we still wiped. I managed to convince them to skip that boss at that point, and we finished the last boss without a wipe. It was still sloppy, as the DK wasn't doing a good job of keeping the adds away from the rest of the group, but nobody died.
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#4 May 24 2011 at 4:13 AM Rating: Good
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I do the kiting when I heal that boss with my priest.
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#5 May 24 2011 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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I hate berating people without knowing the reason(s) for their performance. And I'm afraid the person I'm berating will do a vote-kick, considering how eager people are to click Accept.

As for Regrowth showing up a lot in Recount, it could be that he's using it on OOC procs, like I tend to do (to refresh Lifebloom). It could also be that he's just bad.

It's also funny how every PUG I've joined has been scared witless that I was going to be their healer. Druid healers seem... not as appreciated lately. 4.2 should be interesting with regards to our direct healing output.
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#6 May 24 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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Wait, we are this far into the new expac and they STILL haven't fixed healing?

Oh my...
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#7 May 24 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Err...
88k mana is for regulars. Anyone trying to do the new heroics with that will utterly fail, as your first healer did.

I use regrowth quite a lot, but I doubt it would be more than LB in the end.
Spells that should be their top would be WG, LB and Rejuv/HT.
Bad resto druids tend to forget to use Tree Form and the new Tranquility, too.

Edited, May 24th 2011 11:46am by Brisin
#8 May 24 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Regrowth spam is usually a pretty bad idea. Fully talented it has a higher HPET then Healing Touch, but you're spending about 75% more mana to get 25% more healing, and that's assuming the HoT is fully used.

For a quick example: here's some numbers from treecalcs with a 8/0/33 build taking 3/3 Nature's Bounty with the default gear and swiftmend assuming 3 targets hit with efflor.

Screenshot


If you're a new druid starting out (like Mr. 88k mana there) you should be prioritizing spells by the HPM column much of the time, so that means more LB, WG, and swiftmend. RJ is a good thing to throw out whenever someone heads some green. Nourish/HT are usually the preferred means of doing your single target healing. Finally RG is more of the emergency heal, but can be used to push out some nice numbers in a pinch; like in tree form for example.

Really you have good HPM heals, good HPET heals, and good HPS heals; the trick is using the right ones at the right times.

Also, basically what Brisin said.

As for giving advice, I usually don't dispense it in randoms. I've been known to say stuff from time to time, but it's usually after someone says something like "sorry, I'm really having a hard time," and that's happened like once or twice.
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#9 May 24 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
As for giving advice, I usually don't dispense it in randoms. I've been known to say stuff from time to time, but it's usually after someone says something like "sorry, I'm really having a hard time," and that's happened like once or twice.

This.

Even in guild, I don't pipe up with advice unless it's either explicitly asked for (I'd consider the above quote to be an open-ended request) or the raid leader asks for brainstorming/contributions after there have been problems.

Not to say I won't try to lead the conversation in the direction of pinning someone into a corner where one of the above is likely to occur.
#10 May 25 2011 at 3:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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It seems what I think people are doing wrong is correct, I'm not sure if I would say something to other players (I'm quite a quiet person) but at least I know if I do I won't be spreading misinformation.
#11 May 25 2011 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Just tell them to suck less.

That wouldn't be spreading misinformation either. Smiley: tongue
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#12 May 31 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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160k hp isn't low for a bear. I am in full 359 and I have around that much health, but I gem for avoidance which as far as I know I am supposed to do.
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#13 May 31 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gemming for Stamina gives your healer breathing room to keep you from dieing in the span of a couple GCDs, but it doesn't reduce incoming damage to help them conserve mana. Gemming avoidance reduces incoming damage over an extended period of time, although you can't count on dodging something in a clutch moment.

Outside heroic raids, your healer going OOM is a bigger concern than dieing to a hit/special-attack/hit combo, so avoidance is your friend. Also, I think (might be wrong) that at the ridiculous health levels we're at, you can get more Effective Health from dodge rating/Dex than Stamina.
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#14 Jun 05 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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AstarintheDruid wrote:
Outside heroic raids, your healer going OOM is a bigger concern than dieing to a hit/special-attack/hit combo, so avoidance is your friend. Also, I think (might be wrong) that at the ridiculous health levels we're at, you can get more Effective Health from dodge rating/Dex than Stamina.


This is for raids only, right? Stamina is still preferred for 5-mans, as far as I know.
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#15 Jun 05 2011 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess that depends on how much you trust your healer. If you think he's a little slow, more stamina is safer than more agi/dodge. You can always stop for mana between trash pulls, and 5-man bosses are more about not standing in fire than testing the healer's mana management.
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#16 Jun 05 2011 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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I gear for threat for 5 mans. Without LotD buff I only have around 150k HP tops. Sit around the same HP level for raiding.
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#17 Oct 06 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Default
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IMO yes, if you have good advice, dispense it. I'd say it's more about how you start though...

"Hey you idiot, why are you doing X?" probably won't make you a lot of friends. On the other hand, saying, "I notice you're doing X. Have you ever tried doing, Y instead?" will probably end up with better cooperation.

Personally I quit WoW for a couple years and am now coming back. So not only is all my old info probably outdated and needs to be relearned, but I never grouped much in the past (did maybe 5-10 dungeons max, all the way to 80). SHOULD I now consider grouping, I plan on saying, "hey I'm new at this. Don't feel bad about making suggestions."

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